Discussion in 'Alien Hub' started by waitedavid137, Jul 31, 2020.

1. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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Yeah, Soviet Area 51 is called Kapustin Yar.

So, can you at least confirm that "concave up" and "concave down" have nothing to do with concave or convex?

2. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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Is this similar how warp drives work? Only with two torus, not just one.

This is what a physicist Robert Forward proposed, basically masses rotating about toroid's circular axis and movement was caused by frame dragging. I guess one can steer such a thing if he rotates sections of the torus at different speed.

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3. ### waitedavid137Honorable

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One. It has some relevance. You'd have to add a shell of mass affixed to the interior from the perspective of an external observed is drawn up by the g field. What it would do, as it is, can not yield faster than light travel.
The function h is zero at the origin and 1 at infinity, so as it comes away from zero it curves up. That's concave up. Somewhere after that it ceilings off at 1 do must curve the other way. That's concave down. In my modified version of warp drive the negative energy is located where it is concave up.

Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
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4. ### spacecase0earth human

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the idea of not being able to go faster than the speed of light can be fixed with one small change in the math.
in stead of space-time, you change the math over to "time" and leave space (length) stay fixed.
the rotational fields (pretty sure it is the magnetic and not electric) internal to atoms make the time field, and that is why time flows slower on the surface of earth than in space.
gravity is then just a matter of a change in the time field from one side of an object to another.

so, if that one change in the math is correct, then making a flying saucer is pretty easy. (but the time field we find ourselves in is quite strong, so you need a strong field to verify it, makes it a bit pricey to build)

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5. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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Heck, even I can understand that.

Than from point of view of the first observer his world would stay unchanged, but from a point of view of the second distant observer world of the first observer would look curved, because light will curve as it travels through changing time field. Easy peasy.

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6. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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Is there, in your equations, a field that is pushing gravitationally downwards and, at a same time, swirling around vertical axis in a cylindrical fashion?

@waitedavid137 can your warp drive solution solve this grass flattened in a circle in a clockwise fashion.

The reason I am asking is because there is a relatively very large number of cases where UFOs hover in above the farmland, about 7m (21ft) above the ground, and when they leave these circles in the grass are left. What is unusual about circles is that grass is flattened in a uniform swirling clockwise (or anti-clockwise) pattern. This happens to the water, as well. There was a case in Australia where a farmer watched UFO hover few feet above a pond on his farm and water was swirling bellow the UFO.

Now, this pushing of grass down can not be explained electrodynamically, because, although grass makes a pretty good antenna because it is straight and conductive, grass is pointing upwards. For grass to start acting as an antenna it must already be laying flat and parallel to EM field.

This can be a good clue for the shape of UFO's warp field.

Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
7. ### spacecase0earth human

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if you are looking at that as a clue,
then it is just as I (and others) predicted,
it is a very strong rotating magnetic field.

8. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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Grass is not ferromagnetic. How's even strongest magnetic field on the planet going to affect grass?

Another observation here is that these circles have very sharp edges. Magnetic field takes that "expanding" flux lines shape, so the edge in grass would be very transitional, not sharp.

And as I pointed, grass starts as being vertical, so electrical field has no influence on it.

Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
9. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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This is the most amazing UFO witness video I ever watched.

And, to be honest, I don't even know if it a hoax. It's actually irrelevant, because physics accepts this as theoretically possible.

What changed, is not so much testimonial of witnesses, but the whole new perspective that @waitedavid put onto this field of ufology with his derivations of general relativity.

what school children had witnessed, might look too far fetched, but in terms of general relativity is fairly straightforward and relatively speaking plain. What children had witnessed was a demonstration by a civilization that is 2 billion years technologically ahead of us.

What that UFO did, is completely possible inside GR. UFO simply created a wormhole, went through it to a distant point in-universe, and after few seconds, while children were still amazed, UFO returned to the schoolyard. Einstein's GR equations tell us that this can be done, but we are just far away with our practical engineering.

And this is neither first nor last UFO case where general relativistic effect happened. This is exactly how UFOs do it. Over the average 2 billion years, they became masters of metric engineering.

Obviously questions are, what is their energy source and how do they do it?

10. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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I know how we can solve the "translation" problem. From what I learned from @Thomas R. Morrison there are two parts to general relativity, linear and non-linear. In the linear part, all the GR equations are equivalent to Maxwell's EM equations. So, it's fair to say that one can map GR solutions onto EM solutions, obviously with an adjustment for units.

Like gravitation field g is in m.s^-2 is equivalent to electrostatic E field which is in V/m, and so on. I am making a wild guess here, but I guess your frame-dragging field in GR would be equivalent to magnetic vector potential A in EM. Is that close enough?

Point being, there is a lot of free shareware software that can do finite element analysis so we can visualize your concepts to harts contents. One such program is FEMM 4.2 which I occasionally use and here is a picture of what that software can do (before translation of EM to GR):

You can see there that FEMM v4.2 can easily calculate frame-dragging/magnetic-vector-potential and show nice graphs, etc. All we need is unit conversion?

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12. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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I just listened to two sources that said that Harold "Sony" White, team lead in NASA's Jet Propulsion, who attempted to measure warp drive effect said that vacuum can be "softened" with EM waves. That hasn't been tested but, it's just his hypothesis.

Anyhow, that might explain why real-life UFOs emit so many microwaves.

13. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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Hi, @waitedavid137 Is this how warp drive works?

I was looking for something to visualize the basic principles of warp drive operation and I found thins thing called TWISTOR. Twistor is a mathematical device that British mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose devised using complex numbers back in the 50's to explain Maxwell equations and relativity etc. It's not a particle, it's just mathematical manifold, as far as I understand. But from its geometry, it's obvious that this device converts rotational motion into linear motion. And, more or less, that's what warp drive does?

What do you say?

14. ### waitedavid137Honorable

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it took me about 30 years to really understand penrose diagrams. he is about as head of me as i am a child

15. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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But is that how warp drive converts rotation into linear motion? By slowly bending geodesic around toroid till they bunch up in the middle, along the symmetry axis?

16. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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When you said that back in post #4 does that apply to oncoming particles in the interstellar space? Does it mean that deflected geodesics will help warp drive craft to deflect various Hydrogen nuclei or micrometeorites strown around outer interstellar space? This hydrogen nuclei floating in the vacuum of the space are a great danger to any craft traveling at a speed of light because it's equivalent to colliding with an accelerator beam.

As well some people say that when warp drives start braking, to slow down, some kind of accumulated energy will surge forward and destroy the very planet they are trying to lend on. Is that true?

17. ### waitedavid137Honorable

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Its not true. Geodesics tend to deflect around the warp drive. The radiation etc.... bends in their paths away from it.

18. ### Dejan CorovicCelestial

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OK, so only radiation bends away or wraps around warp drive, but particles don't?

That's a pity. It would save the spacecraft from all these collisions with particles.

19. ### waitedavid137Honorable

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So lets look at a typical Alcubierre warp drive from the perspective of the ship frame
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?ds%5E%7B2%7D%3Ddct%5E%7B2%7D-dx%5E%7B2%7D-dy%5E%7B2%7D-%5Cleft%20%5B%20dz+%5Cbeta%20%5Cleft%20%28%20ct%20%5Cright%20%29g%5Cleft%20%28%20x%2Cy%2Cz%20%5Cright%20%29dct%20%5Cright%20%5D%5E%7B2%7D&hash=f4388e59f7a19b688f114f6e8c266a30$
For simplicity lets say the warp drive is moving at constant warp speed
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?ds%5E%7B2%7D%3Ddct%5E%7B2%7D-dx%5E%7B2%7D-dy%5E%7B2%7D-%5Cleft%20%5B%20dz+%5Cbeta%20g%5Cleft%20%28%20x%2Cy%2Cz%20%5Cright%20%29dct%20%5Cright%20%5D%5E%7B2%7D&hash=7cd59f7c29c3851d4a2526795594dd20$
which can be rewritten as
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?ds%5E%7B2%7D%3D%5Cleft%20%28%201-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%20%5Cright%20%29dct%5E%7B2%7D-2%5Cbeta%20gdctdz-d%5Csigma%20%5E%7B2%7D&hash=00167e4ed2b7c953c56e28da70c708b5$
divide through by proper time squared
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?c%5E%7B2%7D%3D%5Cleft%20%28%201-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bdct%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D-2%5Cbeta%20g%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bdct%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29-%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bd%5Csigma%20%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%20%5E%7B2%7D&hash=78a86c008a30014c1f06a1e35335edc4$
Now the metric tensor is time independent yielding a timelike Killing vector which in accordance with Noether's theorem generates a conserved energy parameter as a constant of geodesic motion of
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?g_%7B00%7D%5Cfrac%7Bdct%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D+g_%7B0z%7D%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%3D%5Cgamma%20c&hash=aff59cf61b0b133e06bdd90f538a80c4$
Solve for $image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?%5Cfrac%7Bdct%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D&hash=1f75ddcd2dc414d6d4c47e77b8411c43$ in the last and insert into the prior
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?c%5E%7B2%7D%3D%5Cleft%20%28%201-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7B%5Cgamma%20c+%5Cbeta%20g%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%7D%7B1-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D-2%5Cbeta%20g%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7B%5Cgamma%20c+%5Cbeta%20g%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%7D%7B1-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29-%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bd%5Csigma%20%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D&hash=5a093c80295b8719842b2b99c0a18e08$
rewrite
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?%5Csmall%20%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bd%5Csigma%20%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D+%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7Dc%5E%7B2%7D+%5Cbeta%20g%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7B%5Cgamma%20c+%5Cbeta%20g%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%7D%7B1-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%7D%20%5Cright%20%29-%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cfrac%7B%5Cleft%20%28%5Cgamma%20c+%5Cbeta%20g%5Cfrac%7Bdz%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D%7D%7B1-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dg%5E%7B2%7D%7D%3D0&hash=877db8086ffd152c89f7130da42e2dc1$
This is then the exact description of geodesics throughout the warp drive. However the equation form of it is analogous to a Newtonian effective potential problem. Now consider a Hydrogen Nuclei of energy parameter of 1 intersecting the warp region. When outside due to a lapse function of 1 the results would be $image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?%5Csmall%20%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bd%5Csigma%20%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D+%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7Dc%5E%7B2%7D-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dc%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bc-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dc%20%7D%7B1-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7D%7D%20%5Cright%20%29-%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cfrac%7B%5Cleft%20%28c-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dc%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D%7D%7B1-%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7D%7D%3D0&hash=9fe9dfdefcc09e821883b48d5eb00999$
simplified
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?%5Csmall%20%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bd%5Csigma%20%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D-%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cbeta%20%5E%7B2%7Dc%5E%7B2%7D%3D0&hash=2fbce7f7592cf2e40a7e52b2e7f220de$
Hypothetically If the particle were to find its way all the way to the origin, the result there would be
$image=https://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?%5Csmall%20%5Cfrac%7B1%7D%7B2%7D%5Cleft%20%28%20%5Cfrac%7Bd%5Csigma%20%7D%7Bd%5Ctau%20%7D%20%5Cright%20%29%5E%7B2%7D%3D0&hash=aa118ef84adbff2f1466115cbe0404e2$
As such the effective potential becomes increasingly negative as it goes out from the warp. So when a particle starts to enter with x and y even slightly off of zero, it tends to scatter further away from the ship with respect to x and y. Essentially the warp works like its own deflector shield.

20. ### waitedavid137Honorable

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193
Particles do.

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