Rick Hunter
Celestial
Much respect to you for that!
Civil Unrest & Protests
- Thread starter Toroid
- Start date
Much respect to you for that!
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
It is clear from the above video that he was struck by the car. But he pulled gun out of belt holster before her vehicle started moving. That can be seen from another widely publicised video.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
That officer must have had actual ice in his veins and lots of training to be able to do that. I find it horrifying and don't want to see anyone hurt much less shot and killed but if that woman had just dialed it down a bit and left them alone she'd still be alive. Had he not done that she'd be facing multiple felony charges for what she did, all to protect some illegal criminal scumbags.
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Its for the court to decide on all the facts and motivations. But in general principle, when policeman tells you to stop, you stop, you don't drive off at speed. Notwithstanding that, taking somebody's life for just refusing to stop is over-reach IMHO.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
He was standing in front of the vehicle and may have already been struck when he fired. We'll see I suppose but in the meantime take it all with a grain of salt.
nivek
As Above So Below
'In the world but not of it' are words twisted by Christianity but the esoteric meaning stands true today as when those words were first spoken...This world will consume you if you let it, if you are of the world, taking part in worldly affairs outside your own lives...This world will especially consume children as they are easy prey, especially children engaged and/or entrenched in the world and its affairs, those of the world...Live and find your way in the world, be in the world but not of it, that is what my son will learn, know, and understand without doubt...
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Rick Hunter
Celestial
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Let's see how a huge budget deficit and their bright red ideas work out. Campaign is over so now the endless talk has to translate into some sort of action.
Ten Years After had it about right - in 1971.
Everywhere is
Freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies
Tell me, where is sanity?
Tax the rich
Feed the poor
Till there are no rich
No more
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
My wife was just down there two days ago and said the police desk in GCT was not manned and other than two cops getting coffee there was zero police presence at the terminal or underground. I'd imagine cutting back on essential services will be one wonderful step. They have jabbered endlessly about community policing as a better alternative. Tell you what - get stuck on a subway car just once when some lunatic decides to perform some sort of subway theater and then tell me how you feel about having cops and national guard underground.
It's been a cold snowy winter - think about how expensive those plow trucks are and the unionized workers in them, not to mention the evil fossil fuels they burn which are causing penguins to slip off melting ice ice even as I type this. That's just horrible and they must put a stop to it.
As I've said, why not try something simple first like community snow removal? See how all THAT works out.
Ten Years After had it about right - in 1971.
Everywhere is
Freaks and hairies
Dykes and fairies
Tell me, where is sanity?
Tax the rich
Feed the poor
Till there are no rich
No more
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
My wife was just down there two days ago and said the police desk in GCT was not manned and other than two cops getting coffee there was zero police presence at the terminal or underground. I'd imagine cutting back on essential services will be one wonderful step. They have jabbered endlessly about community policing as a better alternative. Tell you what - get stuck on a subway car just once when some lunatic decides to perform some sort of subway theater and then tell me how you feel about having cops and national guard underground.
It's been a cold snowy winter - think about how expensive those plow trucks are and the unionized workers in them, not to mention the evil fossil fuels they burn which are causing penguins to slip off melting ice ice even as I type this. That's just horrible and they must put a stop to it.
As I've said, why not try something simple first like community snow removal? See how all THAT works out.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
Federal agents kill another person in Minneapolis, officials say, prompting clash with protesters
Oh my. Why does a peaceful protester needs this? He doesn't and while we're at it neither did Kyle Rittenhouse.
Oh my. Why does a peaceful protester needs this? He doesn't and while we're at it neither did Kyle Rittenhouse.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
There is zero concern for illegals or for the citizens of Minnesota. Take away paid agitators and inflammatory rhetoric and much of this would vanish immediately. The overriding concern behind all this is politics - the goddamned mid term election. Rather than coming up with any sort of sane or useful positions the Left leans into insane bullshit. That shooting looks sketchy to me but all bets are off in situations like that.
I have a concealed carry permit and would never, ever take a handgun to a demonstration of any kind. The right to carry should be coupled with the common sense to do so responsibly. I've been stopped twice while carrying, once while out small game hunting. All I had to do was politely tell the officer I was and there was zero problem, not confrontation, nothing.
I have a concealed carry permit and would never, ever take a handgun to a demonstration of any kind. The right to carry should be coupled with the common sense to do so responsibly. I've been stopped twice while carrying, once while out small game hunting. All I had to do was politely tell the officer I was and there was zero problem, not confrontation, nothing.
The shadow
The shadow knows!
The problem i have is this guy never pulled a gun all footage shows him holding his cellphone.
The shadow
The shadow knows!
Ok I reviewed the footage. I never saw the guy with a gun. Never saw him reach for one. I never saw the gun on the ground or visible.
He was licenced to carry. The state has open carry laws. He was well in his rights to have one. And the guy was shot at least 8 times. I'm on the fence on this one.
He was licenced to carry. The state has open carry laws. He was well in his rights to have one. And the guy was shot at least 8 times. I'm on the fence on this one.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
This summer ICE and elements of the US Air Force discontinued use of that exact model of handgun due to accidental discharges. SIG is ordinarily of extremely high quality and they deny this yet there have been enough incidents to cast serious doubt on this particular model. Ironically ICE was told to transition to Glocks this summer for this exact reason.
Federal Agencies Reject SIG Sauer P320 Amid Growing Safety Concerns
I saw one video from a passing car that appeared to show him following an ICE agent who finally turned around and confronted him. Next one I saw was him on the ground struggling with several of them and an agent with Pretti's gun in his hand. Apparently there was an accidental discharge and one of the officers who was still struggling who apparently did not know the gun had been removed yelled 'gun' and that's when he got shot. Nine times no less. Eeeeee.
Thing is, with the adrenaline pumping I suppose I could see that. I could also see an accidental discharge from a weapon with a very recent history of suspicion in that regard. I can also see those ICE agents under extreme duress because they are constantly being accosted and they are human beings after all with limits. Had the local police been allowed to do their job by that greasy little bastard Jacob Frey they very well could have kept this man safe and allowed the agents to go about their business without interruption.
I can't find a date on this from The International Center for Not-for-Profit Law but believe it's no later than 2022. Keeping Guns Away from Protests
Conclusion: Armed individuals at protests increase the risk of violent confrontations and harm the public sphere by interfering with democratic processes and discouraging people from exercising their First Amendment rights. To safeguard American’s right to peacefully assemble, policymakers should consider reasonable and constitutionally-sound restrictions to keep firearms away from public protests
While there is no state law or city ordinance to prohibit him from carrying his firearm to that protest I say it was at best poorly considered; it was a mistake on many levels. What exactly did he intend to do with it? This right on the heels of the Arizona AG suggesting that ICE agents could be shot under the states 'stand your ground' law. The lack of any police presence is kindling under this flammable rhetoric.
Had Pretti simply put his hands up and not resisted he'd still be alive - if I were carrying and somehow wound up in a situation like that it's what my 39 years experience in concealed carry would have told me to do. Had Goode said her peace and then complied with the agent's multiple requests to quietly leave without fuss she'd still be alive too.
I submit that this is virtually engineered, these things are inevitable and those who will do anything to retain power have no problem whipping people into a frenzy and then removing any police presence to make it happen.
IDK if that ICE agent acted correctly or not, we'll have to wait for the real investigation. That won't matter as the whole thing was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion before this even happened.
Federal Agencies Reject SIG Sauer P320 Amid Growing Safety Concerns
I saw one video from a passing car that appeared to show him following an ICE agent who finally turned around and confronted him. Next one I saw was him on the ground struggling with several of them and an agent with Pretti's gun in his hand. Apparently there was an accidental discharge and one of the officers who was still struggling who apparently did not know the gun had been removed yelled 'gun' and that's when he got shot. Nine times no less. Eeeeee.
Thing is, with the adrenaline pumping I suppose I could see that. I could also see an accidental discharge from a weapon with a very recent history of suspicion in that regard. I can also see those ICE agents under extreme duress because they are constantly being accosted and they are human beings after all with limits. Had the local police been allowed to do their job by that greasy little bastard Jacob Frey they very well could have kept this man safe and allowed the agents to go about their business without interruption.
I can't find a date on this from The International Center for Not-for-Profit Law but believe it's no later than 2022. Keeping Guns Away from Protests
Conclusion: Armed individuals at protests increase the risk of violent confrontations and harm the public sphere by interfering with democratic processes and discouraging people from exercising their First Amendment rights. To safeguard American’s right to peacefully assemble, policymakers should consider reasonable and constitutionally-sound restrictions to keep firearms away from public protests
While there is no state law or city ordinance to prohibit him from carrying his firearm to that protest I say it was at best poorly considered; it was a mistake on many levels. What exactly did he intend to do with it? This right on the heels of the Arizona AG suggesting that ICE agents could be shot under the states 'stand your ground' law. The lack of any police presence is kindling under this flammable rhetoric.
Had Pretti simply put his hands up and not resisted he'd still be alive - if I were carrying and somehow wound up in a situation like that it's what my 39 years experience in concealed carry would have told me to do. Had Goode said her peace and then complied with the agent's multiple requests to quietly leave without fuss she'd still be alive too.
I submit that this is virtually engineered, these things are inevitable and those who will do anything to retain power have no problem whipping people into a frenzy and then removing any police presence to make it happen.
IDK if that ICE agent acted correctly or not, we'll have to wait for the real investigation. That won't matter as the whole thing was tried and convicted in the court of public opinion before this even happened.
The shadow
The shadow knows!
Timeline: A Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex Pretti
A moment-by-moment analysis of videos from the scene shows that Mr. Pretti was already restrained when shots were fired. The footage contradicts the federal government’s account of the fatal shooting.
www.nytimes.com
The shadow
The shadow knows!
It's clear the man never pulled a gun
Dejan Corovic
As above, so bellow
Nobody should carry guns to demonstrations. There should be law about it.
pigfarmer
tall, thin, irritable
I have two friends from childhood who have a history of doing impulsive things without ever considering consequences. Today they are dyed in the wool liberals and they have utterly rationalized their lack of personal responsibility, honed it to a razor's edge. Nothing is ever their fault. For example, years of financial irresponsibility are now because of Trump's tariffs not their own foolishness.
Many, many years ago at a high school party where we were all drunk they decided to chase after a guy who left. He was driving an El Camino and they thought it would be the peak of humor to leap into the back of it as he drove away. They both took bad spills and for no reason at all the guy driving the El Camino (who we really didn't know at all) stopped and then backed his truck right over one of my friends. Nothing permanent and it did not require a trip to the hospital but it did mess him up pretty good.
True, the man was nuts for deliberately backing over him and to this day they would admit no responsibility but my point to them is the same one I make about Pretti and Goode.
My friends triggered those unintended consequences and had they simply left the man alone, let him drive away nothing would have happened at all. They were being stupid and never considered that they might provoke someone.
This man brought a gun with lots of ammo to a 'peaceful' demonstration, interfered with federal agents who had to get him out of the street and then got loud and resisted. He triggered a series of events that led to this that could easily have been avoided with common sense. But of course, actual personal responsibility is not any more popular now than it was with my friends 45 years ago.
I admit the shooting doesn't look good but we are in our cozy homes looking at videos - if you were an ICE agent in the middle of that whole mess wrestling with an armed suspect and then hear a gun go off what would you do? Stop and ask everyone for a time out? How were they to know how many weapons of what type this man had on him - at a 'peaceful' protest.
Many, many years ago at a high school party where we were all drunk they decided to chase after a guy who left. He was driving an El Camino and they thought it would be the peak of humor to leap into the back of it as he drove away. They both took bad spills and for no reason at all the guy driving the El Camino (who we really didn't know at all) stopped and then backed his truck right over one of my friends. Nothing permanent and it did not require a trip to the hospital but it did mess him up pretty good.
True, the man was nuts for deliberately backing over him and to this day they would admit no responsibility but my point to them is the same one I make about Pretti and Goode.
My friends triggered those unintended consequences and had they simply left the man alone, let him drive away nothing would have happened at all. They were being stupid and never considered that they might provoke someone.
This man brought a gun with lots of ammo to a 'peaceful' demonstration, interfered with federal agents who had to get him out of the street and then got loud and resisted. He triggered a series of events that led to this that could easily have been avoided with common sense. But of course, actual personal responsibility is not any more popular now than it was with my friends 45 years ago.
I admit the shooting doesn't look good but we are in our cozy homes looking at videos - if you were an ICE agent in the middle of that whole mess wrestling with an armed suspect and then hear a gun go off what would you do? Stop and ask everyone for a time out? How were they to know how many weapons of what type this man had on him - at a 'peaceful' protest.
AD1184
Celestial
I think it was a bad shoot, as they say. Obviously, the decedent did a few things that placed him in jeopardy (anyone knows by now, don't they, that if you try to play games in the middle of an arrest by American law enforcement that you are placing your life in your hands?). Friends described him as the "most non-violent person you would ever meet". This is despite the fact that he was carrying a firearm (which he may well have been legally entitled to do), which is an implement for meting out violence.
American law enforcement is very trigger-happy, so if you are being arrested, resist, and also fail to tell them that you are armed, you are taking an enormous risk. Plus, ICE is an agency that has lowered the bar for entry to allow in many who otherwise would not be allowed in law enforcement. But just because he did things that common sense would suggest are bad ideas does not make it right that he should be gunned down in the street.
If you believe that it is important that the US is able to police its borders and enforce its immigration laws, then it is also important that the agents tasked with doing so act proportionately. You need to account not just for your own judgment about the shooting, but that of the broader public. For agency leadership and senior Trump administration members to go on television and reflexively lie about the circumstances of these shootings, instead of simply letting procedure play out, then it also harms the effort. If such acts turn the public mood overwhelmingly against illegal immigrant removal, then the struggle is lost. Much of the western world is also watching, and many of us are hoping that the US can achieve this in an orderly manner. If it visibly fails, then it makes it more difficult for everyone else to try.
American law enforcement is very trigger-happy, so if you are being arrested, resist, and also fail to tell them that you are armed, you are taking an enormous risk. Plus, ICE is an agency that has lowered the bar for entry to allow in many who otherwise would not be allowed in law enforcement. But just because he did things that common sense would suggest are bad ideas does not make it right that he should be gunned down in the street.
If you believe that it is important that the US is able to police its borders and enforce its immigration laws, then it is also important that the agents tasked with doing so act proportionately. You need to account not just for your own judgment about the shooting, but that of the broader public. For agency leadership and senior Trump administration members to go on television and reflexively lie about the circumstances of these shootings, instead of simply letting procedure play out, then it also harms the effort. If such acts turn the public mood overwhelmingly against illegal immigrant removal, then the struggle is lost. Much of the western world is also watching, and many of us are hoping that the US can achieve this in an orderly manner. If it visibly fails, then it makes it more difficult for everyone else to try.