Latest on the Pentagons UAP revelations.

[Todd Feinman]

Perhaps the phenomenon will change its interaction with us --especially as things are becoming so dire. If it were to station itself for full public view for a period of time, it would be game over for doubters. It does interact with us in ways that show it is not adhering to the "Prime Directive" , so it could happen, especially as it seems to be ramping up its interactions with world militaries.

 

[pigfarmer]

I suppose I should use the word "debunkers"

they were a very, very rare occurrence,

Debunkers would tell you things never happen. Absolutes like that never end well; the ship is unsinkable, they couldn't possibly attack from that direction, read my lips 'no new taxes' , it's just a rabbit go and lop it's bloody head off and so forth.

J Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee, and maybe even Hector Quintanilla if you get some whiskey in him, would tell you that truly inexplicable events are actually quite rare. The bulk of this entire phenomenon really is misidentification, etc. The rest of it is human nature which includes a broad spectrum of behavior. Debunkers grow in that fertile soil the same as true believers.

I've given this next statement quite a lot of thought as of late and despite my generally flippant approach I am being very serious for once. There are many things we hold dear that require a leap of faith, our existence isn't a matter of accounting where all columns add up properly. Our personalities, background and belief systems determine the nature and extent of that leap. What may be obvious to one may not be to another - it isn't a matter of right or wrong it's perspective.

Only way this will become global is if the evidence is given to public rigorous peer review by multiple neutral parties.

Absolutely positively yes ! I agree with that all day long. There are many topics we like to talk about but in this case it's visitation from another species. The idea that their technology is occasionally visible to us and that we can record the events and have very sophisticated means of doing so means it is one of those topics we can actually quantify. We probably will eventually but I would think it will have to come from the civilian sector. A sector that doesn't want to tantalize us to buy videos, books, watch tv shows, speak in circles and half statements and all that garbage.

Consider this easy example. You need a mechanic for you car - are they all the same ? Do all mechanics have the same motivations ? Of course not. The guy in the independent shop wants to fix only what's necessary and hope you come back for other stuff. A fleet mechanic looks at it differently, his budget is very different. Doesn't want to see that unit again until the prescribed interval has passed and while the unit is within his grasp will service things that would never fly in an independent shop.

When we pressure government and military sources consider their motivations. ET is not their raison d'être. This is at the heart of the matter with the new reporting structure - it's evolved logically to meet current threat levels. Identifying and meeting current threat levels, very terrestrial ones, is what they are all about. They may have the best sensor systems but never seem willing or able to tell us exactly what they know for obvious reasons. I think we need the indie mechanic here - some organization that does not have a mandate to behave in a certain way, does not have layers upon layers of secrecy or a desire to protect budgets - someone who only wants to do what's necessary without qualification. Bigelow might have been that person once but has proven he isn't. A pity Elon Musk doesn't seem interested. But I bet we can reconvene in 10 years and talk about all the data we still never got from the government.

 

[Standingstones]

All governments by nature are secretive. You only need to remember that 75 years have passed and we are still kicking the Roswell can down the street. Those hearings on the Tik Tok craft did not present one Naval pilot. That tells me all I need to know about the truthfulness of those meetings.

 

[pigfarmer]

Roswell was just a rusty can until Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz began kicking it. As I said recently, imagine if Steven Spielberg, Whitley Strieber and Chris Carter never did what they did. What would our perception be then ?

 

[Standingstones]

I think about something Fox Mulder once said. “I wonder which lie I should believe.”

 

[Todd Feinman]

We'll just have to wait and see if something comes out to convince ye skeptical folks. I think that's why you don't hear about MIBs threatening folks these days --they don't need to. The phenomenon isn't creating a tipping point. I think many folks would need a personal experience or more evidence, which is not forthcoming. But I am optimistic about things. I do wonder if our species is mature enough to deal with more direct contact --every time I turn on the news I become convinced that we are not. I have long ago realized it is impossible to convince skeptics of the reality of the phenomenon, but it doesn't stop me from talking with them! Mostly because I want to tell people about the experiences I have had because they were so shocking / amazing, I am unable to keep them to myself. For me, studying the history of the phenomenon only reinforced things for me. These days the gears on truth and believability for many topics are totally ground down, and one an choose one's own reality --no matter how absurd. Perhaps this is why the nature of contact is the way it is. For me, UFOs are advanced transmedium devices that have probably been here for a very long time. They operate in an information universe far in advance of what we comprehend --though our AI may eventually achieve something comparable. For me those are the best extrapolations for what I have experienced and what others have experienced in the past. I am skeptical of humanoid encounters generally, and abduction in particular. I think these things are devices. And I'll leave it at that. I don't really have anything more to offer, or any more evidence to add. But my experiences were 100% real, and many other people have had similar experiences, and they weren't weather balloons or birds, or distant aircraft. It is really the only topic on these forums that interests me in talking about, though it is always a pleasure to meet a nice bunch of folks, some quite brilliant! And that is reassuring to me.

 

[pigfarmer]

I know you had a genuine experience that altered your perception and am frankly a bit jealous. This is why I spend a fair amount of time actually looking in the sky not at a pc screen It's why I have been trying to take pictures of low flying aircraft. Even if I did one day actually see something I am totally flummoxed by I am not sure it would change what I am saying though - more often than not everything is not as it appears to be at first and to be cautious.

MIBs threatening folks these days

I know there are a couple of grainy photos and at least one nondescript video, which will probably make its appearance here now that I've mentioned it, of purported MiB. You think the profusion of HD video cameras we have now makes a difference ? They would be a billion times more likely to be captured on camera as would their vintage car, whatever it may be.

Not really related but I used to have service calls at some sort of call center that was not quite at the top of a large building. @wwkirk it's the Ramada in New Rochelle - or whatever it's called now - I think it's the tallest one downtown. Or was anyway. The FBI occupied the top floor. As a result sharing the long elevator rides with FBI agents was normal. I'm 6'3" tall and many times these cheap suit buzz cut guys would literally loom over me with a lugubrious mien. I don't know if that unit was some sort of undercover basketball investigation or what, but them boys were trees I can easily see how a visit from someone like that for whatever reason would leave an impression.

 

[Todd Feinman]

I think the MIBs were just CIA agents; I think perhaps they eventually developed a mythology around themselves.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Something kind of odd happened to my parents after I had my UFO experience in 2010, but it was probably nothing, though it alarmed me a bit at the time, because I was already on high alert with my nerves for a good long time.
I had seen the UFOs on the way down to Eugene, and had spent the night at my parents house that evening in a state of shock, only mentioning the event to my mother the next day. Some months after May 14, 2010, two "Asian-looking" women kept showing up at my parents house (three times?), and knocking on the door at night and asking to come in --or asking to see someone, or to use the phone, iirc. My parents never opened the door, thank god, and could only hear snippets of what the said. They acted very odd, staring at the ground as they spoke. My dad, who doesn't like to ever talk about UFOs or the paranormal or anything unusual (he cuts me off when I try to talk about these things, because it actually scares him), mentioned to me that their pupils seemed very dilated.. I asked him more about that --how could he tell? Because their eyes were usually looking at the ground, etc., and I finally asked him if their eyes appeared to be black. He said "yes". This alarmed me because I was already familiar with the "black-eyed kids" stories online. It was very odd that my dad would even mention such a detail to me --unless it had really made an impression on him. It spooked me. Still does a little. I tell them to always keep their doors locked, and I tell them that all the time now. And they do, and they have dogs. I'm glad they didn't open the door for those people when they came by those times --even if they were just burglars on drugs. Forgot t mention that during the third visit my parents showed them the phone through the window and said they were going to call the police. They never came back after that.

 

[Todd Feinman]

I know you had a genuine experience that altered your perception and am frankly a bit jealous. This is why I spend a fair amount of time actually looking in the sky not at a pc screen It's why I have been trying to take pictures of low flying aircraft. Even if I did one day actually see something I am totally flummoxed by I am not sure it would change what I am saying though - more often than not everything is not as it appears to be at first and to be cautious.

I was shocked and scared when I saw the UFOs in 2010. So much so, that I just tried to keep on driving and not look afraid. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to deal with it if the objects came closer to me. And once I realized all of the odd circumstances around that sighting, it has really had an impact on me. Now I am just in complete awe of that experience. I have PTAD; post-traumatic awe disorder.

 

[Todd Feinman]

And here we are. Yep, Elizondo is still working for the Government:

Pentagon Admits Whistleblower’s Claim He Continues To Work For U.S. Space Force On “Classified Topics” — Liberation Times | Reimagining Old News

Pentagon spokesperson Susan Gough has told Liberation Times that Lue Elizondo, former director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), is advising the U.S. Space Force on “classified topics”.

www.liberationtimes.com

 

[nivek]

Swarm of six unidentified drones fly over US Navy's most advanced destroyer ship off the coast of California, while vessel was in international waters​

• A new video shows the moment six mysterious drones circled around the USS Zumwalt, the US Navy's most advanced warship
• The video shows a drone with multicolored lights buzzing above the ship flying in 'consistent patterns,'
• Drone swarm events have become more common in recent years, and the US military has devoted more resources to combatting and understanding them
• The incident happened just 17 miles off the coast of Southern California, near major Marine base Camp Pendleton

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifslvA3SjOY


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[nivek]

Pentagon says it has SOLVED a number of famous UFO sightings - but admits there are many that still have no explanation​

The majority of UFO sightings are likely the result of foreign spying, airborne trash or simply optical illusions governmental officials have said. US officials have solved many recent UFO mysteries, the New York Times reports. The most recent unidentified aerial phenomena has been explained as to trash in the sky or foreign surveillance activity, such as Chinese drones but the Pentagon keeps most of its conclusions on foreign surveillance secret so as not to reveal to China that it is aware of their spying activities. Some older incidents remain officially unexplained simply because there is not enough data to make a final conclusion. During public hearings in May, the Navy revealed 400 'unidentified aerial phenomenon' reports in recent years. An intelligence report last year revealed U.S. government had encountered more than 140 unidentified aerial phenomena since 2004 and could not explain them.

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[Dejan Corovic]

Just an idea that had been floating freely in my mind lately that came out of connections of some random UFO information.

- There is actually a large number of UFO, USO, sightings in large bodies of water. That book published from archives of Soviet Navy illustrates a lots of them and in US it is NAVY that is pushing for disclosure, because, again it seems that NAVY is having lots of these encounters as well.

- according to general relativity its almost impossible to fly faster then light. Actually one can with warp drives, but there are other problems, like collisions with micro-meteorites and increased radiation etc. So what I'm trying to say here, it would be quite expensive for aliens to cross interstellar voids even if they had the tech. that's needed.

So, one solution to this dilemma, would be what Jacques Vallee proposed, that aliens were actually always here. In other words, aliens possibly inhabited Earth even before us, only possibly because of their own origin and anatomy aliens simply prefer to live in water, most likely in oceans. That way they don't need to cross the interstellar voids and they can come and go pretty much unseen, because they are very far from populated areas.

 

[Spaceman spiff]

Pentagon says it has SOLVED a number of famous UFO sightings - but admits there are many that still have no explanation​

The majority of UFO sightings are likely the result of foreign spying, airborne trash or simply optical illusions governmental officials have said. US officials have solved many recent UFO mysteries, the New York Times reports. The most recent unidentified aerial phenomena has been explained as to trash in the sky or foreign surveillance activity, such as Chinese drones but the Pentagon keeps most of its conclusions on foreign surveillance secret so as not to reveal to China that it is aware of their spying activities. Some older incidents remain officially unexplained simply because there is not enough data to make a final conclusion. During public hearings in May, the Navy revealed 400 'unidentified aerial phenomenon' reports in recent years. An intelligence report last year revealed U.S. government had encountered more than 140 unidentified aerial phenomena since 2004 and could not explain them.

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Yes the chinese will never read the New York Times regarding this.... Quite the bet.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

Yes the chinese will never read the New York Times regarding this.... Quite the bet.

Lets not forget that UFO phenomena is evenly distributed over the whole planet and that Russians and Chinese have their own UFO cases and their own intelligence gathering. As a matter of fact, for whatever reason, it seems that most of the cases come from South America.

 

[Spaceman spiff]

"according to general relativity its almost impossible to fly faster then light. Actually one can with warp drives, but there are other problems, like collisions with micro-meteorites and increased radiation etc. So what I'm trying to say here, it would be quite expensive for aliens to cross interstellar voids even if they had the tech. that's needed."

I am now actually of the mind that many potential aliens will be post biological, machine bodies. It is the ideal form on surviving on other worlds. No need for food, just energy, and immunity or mitigation to the effects of aging, radiation, temperature, gravity, biological hazards and diseases/defects.

 

[Standingstones]

"according to general relativity its almost impossible to fly faster then light. Actually one can with warp drives, but there are other problems, like collisions with micro-meteorites and increased radiation etc. So what I'm trying to say here, it would be quite expensive for aliens to cross interstellar voids even if they had the tech. that's needed."

I am now actually of the mind that many potential aliens will be post biological, machine bodies. It is the ideal form on surviving on other worlds. No need for food, just energy, and immunity or mitigation to the effects of aging, radiation, temperature, gravity, biological hazards and diseases/defects.

Is she supposed to represent Greta Thunberg? How annoying can you get?

 

[Dejan Corovic]

"according to general relativity its almost impossible to fly faster then light. Actually one can with warp drives, but there are other problems, like collisions with micro-meteorites and increased radiation etc. So what I'm trying to say here, it would be quite expensive for aliens to cross interstellar voids even if they had the tech. that's needed."

I am now actually of the mind that many potential aliens will be post biological, machine bodies. It is the ideal form on surviving on other worlds. No need for food, just energy, and immunity or mitigation to the effects of aging, radiation, temperature, gravity, biological hazards and diseases/defects.

There is no advantage to being a machine, even to having parts of the body from machine.
I read somewhere that human muscles can store x7 times more energy then the best batteries. So, we are much more efficient in converting food into energy then best machines will ever be.
Plus, if threatened with punishment we can fight even without food, like those poor Russian soldiers in Ukraine. In times of high inflation life is cheap.

 

[wwkirk]

Supposedly, the upcoming UAP report will downplay any ET angle. (Since NY Times content drop behind its paywall, I'm placing the whole article here.. Some key parts highlighted.)

Many Military U.F.O. Reports Are Just Foreign Spying or Airborne Trash (Published 2022)

Forget space aliens or hypersonic technology; classified assessments show that many episodes have ordinary explanations.

www.nytimes.com

Many UFO Reports Are Just Spy Drones or Airborne Trash​

Julian E. Barnes

​

Forget space aliens or hypersonic technology; classified assessments show that many episodes have ordinary explanations.

Credit...Department of Defense, via Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

Oct. 28, 2022

WASHINGTON — Government officials believe that surveillance operations by foreign powers and weather balloons or other airborne clutter explain most recent incidents of unidentified aerial phenomena — government-speak for U.F.O.s — as well as many episodes in past years.
The sightings have puzzled the Pentagon and intelligence agencies for years, fueling theories about visiting space aliens and spying by a hostile nation using advanced technology. But government officials say many of the incidents have far more ordinary explanations.

Intelligence agencies are set to deliver a classified document to Congress by Monday updating a report made public last year that said nearly all of the incidents remain unexplained. The original document looked at 144 incidents between 2004 and 2021 that were reported by U.S. government sources, mostly American military personnel.

This article is based on interviews with American officials familiar with the findings of the Pentagon and intelligence agencies’ examination of the incidents. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the classified work.

Some of the incidents have been formally attributed to Chinese surveillance — with relatively ordinary drone technology — and others are also thought to be connected to Beijing. China, which has stolen plans for advanced fighter planes, wants to learn more about how the United States trains its military pilots, according to American officials.

Much of the information about the unidentified phenomena remains classified. While Congress has been briefed on some of the conclusions about foreign surveillance, Pentagon officials have kept most of the work secret — in large measure because they do not want China or other countries to know that their efforts to spy on the American military were detected.

But such official secrecy comes at a cost, allowing conspiracy theories about government lies to thrive unchecked.
Sue Gough, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said the Pentagon remains committed to principles of openness but must balance that with its “its obligation to protect sensitive information, sources and methods.”

While the Pentagon will not “rush to conclusions in our analysis,” Ms. Gough said, no single explanation addresses the majority of unidentified aerial phenomena reports.

“We are collecting as much data as we can, following the data where it leads and will share our findings whenever possible,” she said.
It was not clear how much of the new intelligence report would be made public. But of the cases that have been resolved, most have proved to be either errant junk in the sky, like balloons, or surveillance activity, officials said. Incidents recorded in the past year, for which more data has been collected, have turned out to have ordinary, earthbound explanations.

Officially, many of the older incidents are still unexplained and there is just too little data for Pentagon or intelligence officials to make final conclusions.
“In many cases, observed phenomena are classified as ‘unidentified’ simply because sensors were not able to collect enough information to make a positive attribution,” Ms. Gough said, referring to cameras, radar and other devices that collect information. “We are working to mitigate these shortfalls for the future and to ensure we have sufficient data for our analysis.”

Other officials insist that even though the evidence is imperfect, the grainy videos do not show space aliens.
Optical illusions along with the characteristics of classified sensors have caused ordinary objects, like drones or balloons, to appear to be something unusual or frightening.

In May, the Pentagon announced that previously released images of green triangles that looked like they could be alien ships were actually drones photographed through night-vision lenses.

Military officials declined to say precisely when or where the images were taken. But they believe the incidents are examples of attempts to conduct surveillance on military maneuvers.

U.F.O. skeptics and experts in optics have long said many of the videos and sightings by naval aviators represent optical illusions that have made ordinary objects — weather balloons, commercial drones — appear to move faster than possible.

Military officials have largely come to the same conclusion.

Besides the images of the green triangles, the other recordings released by the Pentagon have not been categorized as surveillance incidents, at least so far. But Pentagon officials do not believe that any of them represent aliens, either.

One of the videos, referred to as GoFast, appears to show an object moving at immense speed. But an analysis by the military says that is an illusion created by the angle of observation against water. According to Pentagon calculations, the object is moving only about 30 miles per hour.

Another video, known as Gimbal, shows an object that appears to be turning or spinning. Military officials now believe that is the optics of the classified image sensor, designed to help target weapons, make the object appear like it is moving in a strange way.

Pentagon analysts remain puzzled by some of the videos collected by the military. One where an object hovers over the water, jumps erratically, then peels away, is more difficult to explain, officials said. But analysts who have studied that video, as well as ones associated with eyewitness reports from aviators, are convinced it is not a piece of alien technology.

Nevertheless, efforts by the Pentagon or intelligence officials to stamp out theories about aliens have largely failed. The Pentagon has formed, and then reformed, groups inside the department to improve data collection around the incidents and provide better explanations.

Military officials have repeatedly said there is no evidence that any of the images show space alien visitors, comments often played down in the news media or ignored by lawmakers. In May, Pentagon officials testified under oath that the government had not collected materials from any alien landing on Earth. But the testimony did little to dampen enthusiasm for theories about extraterrestrial visitors.

Publicly, military and intelligence officials have been reluctant to offer alternative theories, in part because they lack complete information, like in the case of the three videos, or because they do not want to reveal what they know about the surveillance, for fear China or other countries could learn to better hide their activities.

The failure to categorize or offer explanations for many of the unidentified incidents has allowed U.F.O. enthusiasts to argue that the government does not know what the incidents are — at least leaving open the possibility that aliens have been visiting the United States.

There is a long history of the U.S. government using speculation over conspiracy theories to prevent secrets from becoming widely known. During the development of American spy planes like the U-2 and SR-71 Blackbird, the government allowed rumors about U.F.O. sightings to continue to help hide the development of those programs.

But intelligence officials concluded long ago that using conspiracy theories as cover for classified programs sows distrust in the American government and paranoia.

Some American officials believe the secrecy surrounding the Chinese surveillance of military bases once again risks giving life to conspiracy theories and heightening distrust of government in a ever more bitterly divided society.
Image

Credit...Michael A. McCoy for The New York Times

At the hearing in May, the Pentagon declassified the conclusions about two separate images of ghostly green triangles recorded in two incidents, one on the East Coast and one on the West. Officials testified publicly that the green triangles were actually drones, with a trick of the camera lens and night vision technology transforming them into glowing triangles that look like alien spacecraft.

At the hearing, other military assets saw drones operating in the area, allowing the Navy to conclude the strange triangles were nothing otherworldly, said Scott W. Bray, the deputy director of naval intelligence.

At the hearing, Mr. Bray also explained why the government was not releasing more information about the incidents.
“We do not want potential adversaries to know exactly what we’re able to see or understand, or how we come to the conclusion,” Mr. Bray said. “Therefore, disclosures must be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis.”