Murder of Washington Post Journalist Jamal Khashoggi

[pepe]

That's too lofty a concept for my peasant brain, sorry.

I have the brain of a peasant and I got it. He doesn't care about our feelings anymore, just about what matters. As the leader of the free world, whatever next.

 

[Kchoo]

That is a compliment but I am sure I am around just below average. I have wasted an awful lot of time justifying why we do what we do and complain about what ever we end up doing.

Now I am convinced you ARE a genius.

 

[wwkirk]

I'm not sure how they obtained the recording, but...
Jamal Khashoggi's killing took seven minutes, Turkish source tells MEE

It took seven minutes for Jamal Khashoggi to die, a Turkish source who has listened in full to an audio recording of the Saudi journalist's last moments told Middle East Eye.

Khashoggi was dragged from the Consul General’s office at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and onto the table of his study next door, the Turkish source said.

Horrendous screams were then heard by a witness downstairs, the source said.

"The consul himself was taken out of the room. There was no attempt to interrogate him. They had come to kill him,” the source told MEE.

The screaming stopped when Khashoggi - who was last seen entering the Saudi consulate on 2 October - was injected with an as yet unknown substance.

Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy, who has been identified as the head of forensic evidence in the Saudi general security department, was one of the 15-member squad who arrived in Ankara earlier that day on a private jet.

Tubaigy began to cut Khashoggi’s body up on a table in the study while he was still alive, the Turkish source said.

The killing took seven minutes, the source said.

 

[pepe]

Now I am convinced you ARE a genius.

You might be on to something....No, I checked and it's a bout of eccentricity.

 

[pepe]

So why kill him ?

D.A.W.N

My abreviation there but stands for " Democracy for the Arab World Now ".

A newly regestered political organisation in the United States. Registered by Jamal.

 

[wwkirk]

Cleaning up loose ends?
One of the men suspected of killing Jamal Khashoggi reportedly died in a car crash after returning to Saudi Arabia

 

[AD1184]

As an update, after first claiming that Khashoggi walked out of the consulate some short time after entering, the Saudis have now admitted that he died in the building. However, they have made up a cock and bull story that he died as a result of a fist fight that got out of hand.

Allies challenge Saudis on writer's killing

Khashoggi was apparently a friend of the Turkish autocratic leader Recep Erdogan. Turkey and Saudi Arabia are allies, but also rivals in the region, competing for supremacy (the kingdom of Saudi Arabia is fairly young, and historically Turkey used to rule most of the land that is now Saudi Arabia up until the early twentieth century as part of its former Ottoman Empire).

I have heard reports on the television that the Saudis are claiming they are going to clarify what happened to Khashoggi at the end of next week. Quite why they need to delay for so long is not explained. It seems likely from reports that the Turkish intelligence services recorded what happened to him in the building.

 

[wwkirk]

I don't know how others may take this, but I don't think Khashoggi's fate is any business of the U.S. He was a Saudi citizen killed by the Saudis on Saudi territory (its embassy). I'm sure the Saudi government kills many of its citizens all the time.

For that matter, the U.S. kills it's citizens abroad sometimes using drone strikes.

Although Khashoggi was a green card holder, he was not, to me knowledge, working on behalf of the United States government.

Although I don't condone the killing of journalists, one journalist's death does not to me justify the frenzy and outrage that presently exists. Just because Turkey is freaked out over his death, that doesn't mean America should be. It seems that Turkey, along with the media, is fanning the flames of anger over and above what it should be.

 

[Shadowprophet]

I don't know how others may take this, but I don't think Khashoggi's fate is any business of the U.S. He was a Saudi citizen killed by the Saudis on Saudi territory (its embassy). I'm sure the Saudi government kills many of its citizens all the time.

For that matter, the U.S. kills it's citizens abroad sometimes using drone strikes.

Although Khashoggi was a green card holder, he was not, to me knowledge, working on behalf of the United States government.

Although I don't condone the killing of journalists, one journalist's death does not to me justify the frenzy and outrage that presently exists. Just because Turkey is freaked out over his death, that doesn't mean America should be. It seems that Turkey, along with the media, is fanning the flames of anger over and above what it should be.

It's a matter of National security, He was there on our behalf, He was our responsibility, The problem is, if we don't react this isn't just a sign of weakness, it's a literal weakness, he was there on behalf of America, He was an ambassador of America, They didn't just kill him, They where making a statement to the US, using him.

This "Will Devolve into a US conflict"

Rightfully so.

 

[wwkirk]

He was there on our behalf, He was our responsibility...he was there on behalf of America, He was an ambassador of America

Could you please provide some evidence for the above statements?
From what I have read, he was an employee of the Washington Post, nothing more.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Could you please provide some evidence for the above statements?
From what I have read, he was an employee of the Washington Post, nothing more.

To provide evidence I'd have to dig deeper into politics than I really want too, Politics suck. I'm gonna pass on that, But, The Washington Post isn't an Afghanistan organization and he was working under that banner, by textbook definition that makes him an official ambassador I'd think. in short, A Member of The Washington post, Was slaughtered there. That won't really stand, That's why people are making a huge deal out of this...

 

[wwkirk]

To provide evidence Id have to dig deeper into politics than I really want too, Politics suck. I'm gonna pass on that, But, The Washington Post isn't an Afghanistan organization and he was working under that banner, by textbook definition that makes him an official ambassador I'd think. in short, A Member of The Washington post, Was slaughtered there. That won't really stand, That's why people are making a huge deal out of this...

The Washington Post is a private corporation, not an official organ of the United States. Working for that company in no way entails that he is representing America in any way.

 

[Shadowprophet]

The Washington Post is a private corporation, not an official organ of the United States. Working for that company in no way entails that he is representing America in any way.

Not on an official capacity, But you have to gauge the room around you brother. People aren't taking this lightly, it has people scrambling for answers, This killing was a statement toward the U.S in my opinion, As I said, It's national security, This was a statement made toward the U.S. If someone slaps someone in public, That's a statement, "He was our boy". He lived here in the Us " I think, Don't quote me on that, Still he worked for Us, That makes him one of ours. This is how the U.S thinks, It's not rocket science.

 

[wwkirk]

Not on an official capacity, But you have to gauge the room around you brother. People aren't taking this lightly, it has people scrambling for answers, This killing was a statement toward the U.S in my opinion, As I said, It's national security, This was a statement made toward the U.S. If someone slaps someone in public, That's a statement, "He was our boy". He lived here in the Us " I think, Don't quote me on that, Still he worked for Us, That makes him one of ours. This is how the U.S thinks, It's not rocket science.

The media and Turkey, along with some politicians, are in an uproar, but it's just not justified. Just because he lived in America, he was a Saudi citizen, not an American citizen. As much as the Washington Post would like everyone to think that they represent America, they don't. He was not our boy. He was an anti-Saudi-government activist. Saudi Arabia is one of our strategic allies. His activities against Saudi Arabia were not actions on behalf of the United States. They represented his personal ideology and that of Saudi Arabia's rivals.

 

[Shadowprophet]

The media and Turkey, along with some politicians, are in an uproar, but it's just not justified. Just because he lived in America, he was a Saudi citizen, not an American citizen. As much as the Washington Post would like everyone to think that they represent America, they don't. He was not our boy. He was an anti-Saudi-government activist. Saudi Arabia is one of our strategic allies. His activities against Saudi Arabia were not actions on behalf of the United States. They represented his personal ideology and that of Saudi Arabia's rivals.

I get what you are saying, And you are totally entitled to think that. The problem is, When it comes to politics, I'm not at the same level with that subject as I am science and math, I am lacking in my understanding on political issues, mostly because I've spent my life ignoring politics,

but, When it comes to politics, You are basically speaking to a middle school student who doesn't understand the issues.
No one should ever take my political opinions and give them the same regard as my scientific ones. Because I simply don't understand a subject so illogical as politics honestly :/

 

[wwkirk]

I get what you are saying, And you are totally entitled to think that. The problem is, When it comes to politics, I'm not at the same level with that subject as I am science and math, I am lacking in my understanding on political issues, mostly because I've spent my life ignoring politics,

but, When it comes to politics, You are basically speaking to a middle school student who doesn't understand the issues.
No one should ever take my political opinions and give them the same regard as my scientific ones. Because I simply don't understand a subject so illogical as politics honestly :/

I appreciate your honesty.
Let's hear what others have to say.

 

[Shadowprophet]

<--- Strongly feels he represents the average voter in America. Most people don't really understand politics with any real depth. Because how can they, almost all politicians lie. juss sayin

 

[AD1184]

We are all free to take whatever opinion of the matter we wish, but imagine if the Saudis committed this act at their embassy in Washington: They killed a Saudi journalist who entered their embassy, and then transported the body parts outside of the embassy to be buried in the grounds of the ambassador's residence in the city. The US government would create an almighty fuss over such a thing, so I do not think that Turkey is exaggerating the matter.

Khashoggi was a Saudi of Turkish extraction and, by reports, on good terms with the Turkish president, Erdogan. Turkey is also a NATO member and US military ally. They are a partner country in the F-35 fighter programme, responsible for much of the maintenance on all of the F-35s delivered to NATO partners in Europe. Not to say that Turkey's Erdogan is an angel. But if we are going simply on the basis of ties to the United States to determine who should be backed, Turkey also have a strong claim.

I think the relationship between many western countries and Saudi Arabia needs to be re-examined and I welcome that this event has caused the press to take greater note of the matter and to express outrage at the rulers of that country. If it leads to even a slight weakening of the servile relationship we all have with the dreadful Saudi Arabian state, so much the better.

 

[Shadowprophet]

We are all free to take whatever opinion of the matter we wish, but imagine if the Saudis committed this act at their embassy in Washington: They killed a Saudi journalist who entered their embassy, and then transported the body parts outside of the embassy to be buried in the grounds of the ambassador's residence in the city. The US government would create an almighty fuss over such a thing, so I do not think that Turkey is exaggerating the matter.

Khashoggi was a Saudi of Turkish extraction and, by reports, on good terms with the Turkish president, Erdogan. Turkey is also a NATO member and US military ally. They are a partner country in the F-35 fighter programme, responsible for much of the maintenance on all of the F-35s delivered to NATO partners in Europe. Not to say that Turkey's Erdogan is an angel. But if we are going simply on the basis of ties to the United States to determine who should be backed, Turkey also have a strong claim.

I think the relationship between many western countries and Saudi Arabia needs to be re-examined and I welcome that this event has caused the press to take greater note of the matter and to express outrage at the rulers of that country. If it leads to even a slight weakening of the servile relationship we all have with the dreadful Saudi Arabian state, so much the better.

Distinctions must be made, I realize I've gone on record stating that I don't really know a lot about politics, And that's true, But, is it the Saudi Arabian State that is the real problem or is it just the people who are currently in charge. All this conflict has people worldwide rationalizing things with emotion and biases. I make a lot of assumptions when it comes to politics because there's a lot I don't really know. My assumption is, There is some underline reason we have the relationship that we do with Saudi Arabia, just aiming at the common denominator I assume it's got something to do with all that Oil.

My thinking is, We, That is to say, America has been over there with our hand in their cookie jar for literal decades because we are basically fighting for whatever side gives us the best oil prices, I hate to sound that blunt about it, But
I mean, I've never been one of those people who believe We are over there to really protect and serve, I mean, Why would we as a nation care so much about the Middle East when Africa is full of Diamonds? and begging the U.S for help in the Darfur issues, yet, We aren't there.

Greed is the motivator of all parties involved, The truth is, Neither nation's government really cares about the loss of this one mans life, And they never will. It's the public outcry for some form of justice that gives this story any meaning at all..

To anyone really.

As joyless as that may sound, I assume politics at the highest level are above things like personal feelings about the loss of a single life. My assumption is, While I know little of legitimate politics, The process at the highest level went down something like this..

one journalist was slain to make a political statement, An attempt to instigate wrath or action from the other party, The other party, doesn't really have a huge investment in this one man, So the meetings are most likely focusing around how to avoid spending vast amounts of money fighting a war, We really don't care about in the slightest, Because as I see it, We are only there for the oil. :/

I could be wrong, But every bit of this felt right to say. :/

 

[nivek]

The murder of Jamal Khashoggi: Key moments surrounding the writer's disappearance and death

Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who wrote critically of the kingdom's policies and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, was killed in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. Turkish officials say a 15-men team tortured, killed and dismembered the writer, while Saudi Arabia says he died in a 'fistfight.'

Here are some key moments in the slaying of the Washington Post columnist:

BEFORE HIS DISAPPEARANCE

September 2017: The Post publishes the first column by Khashoggi in its newspaper, in which the former royal court insider and longtime journalist writes about going into a self-imposed exile in the U.S. over the rise of Prince Mohammed. His following columns criticize the prince and the kingdom's direction.

September 28, 2018: Over a year after the Post published his first column, Khashoggi visits the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, seeking documents in order to get married. He's later told to return October 2, his fiancee Hatice Cengiz says. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says a plan or a 'road map' to kill Khashoggi was devised in Saudi Arabia during this time.

September 29: Khashoggi travels to London and speaks at a conference.

October 1: Khashoggi returns to Istanbul. At around 4.30pm, a three-person Saudi team arrives in Istanbul on a scheduled flight, checks in to their hotels then visits the consulate, according to Erdogan. The Turkish president says another group of officials from the consulate travel to a forest in Istanbul's outskirts and to the nearby city of Yalova on a 'reconnaissance' trip.

Jamal Khashoggi (right) arriving at the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul on October 2. He has not been seen since and Turkey has accused Saudi agents of murdering him

THE DAY OF HIS DISAPPEARANCE

3.28am, October 2: A private jet arrives at Istanbul's Ataturk Airport carrying some members of what Turkish media will refer to as a 15-member Saudi 'assassination squad.' Other members of the team arrive by two commercial flights in the afternoon. Erdogan says the team includes Saudi security and intelligence officials and a forensics expert. They meet at the Saudi Consulate. One of the first things they do is to dismantle a hard disk connected to the consulate's camera system, the president says.

11.50am: Khashoggi is called to confirm his appointment at the consulate later that day, Erdogan says.

1.14pm: Surveillance footage later leaked to Turkish media shows Khashoggi walking into the main entrance of the Saudi Consulate. No footage made public ever shows him leaving. His fiancee waits outside, pacing for hours.

3.07pm: Surveillance footage shows vehicles with diplomatic license plates leaving the Saudi Consulate for the consul general's home some 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) away.

5.50pm: Khashoggi's fiancee alerts authorities, saying he may have been forcibly detained inside the consulate or that something bad may have happened to him, according to Erdogan.

7pm: A private plane from Saudi Arabia carries six members of the alleged Saudi squad from Istanbul to Cairo, the next day returning to Riyadh.

11pm: Seven members of the alleged Saudi squad leave on another private jet to Dubai, United Arab Emirates, which the next day returns to Riyadh. Two others leave by commercial flights.

Erdogan confirms reports that a 'body double' - a man wearing Khashoggi's clothes, glasses and a beard - leaves the consulate building for Riyadh with another person on a scheduled flight later that day.

CCTV images showed a a private jet alleged to have been used by a group of Saudi men suspected of being involved in Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi's death

INITIAL REACTION

October 3: Khashoggi's fiancee and the Post go public with his disappearance. Saudi Arabia says Khashoggi visited the consulate and exited shortly thereafter. Turkish officials suggest Khashoggi might still be in the consulate. Prince Mohammed tells Bloomberg: 'We have nothing to hide.'

October 4: Saudi Arabia says on its state-run news agency that the consulate is carrying out 'follow-up procedures and coordination with the Turkish local authorities to uncover the circumstances of the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi after he left the consulate building.'

October 5: The Post prints a blank column in its newspaper in solidarity with Khashoggi, headlined: 'A missing voice.'

October 6: The Post, citing anonymous Turkish officials, reports Khashoggi may have been killed in the consulate in a 'preplanned murder' by a Saudi team.

October 7: A friend of Khashoggi tells the AP that officials told him the writer was killed at the consulate. The consulate rejects what it calls 'baseless allegations.'

October 8: Saudi Arabia's ambassador to Turkey is summoned over Khashoggi's disappearance and alleged killing.

LEAKED FOOTAGE

October 9: Turkey says it will search the Saudi Consulate as a picture of Khashoggi walking into the diplomatic post surfaces.

October 10: Surveillance footage is leaked of Khashoggi and the alleged Saudi squad that killed him. Khashoggi's fiancee asks President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump for help.

October 11: Turkish media describes Saudi squad as including royal guards, intelligence officers, soldiers and an autopsy expert. Trump calls Khashoggi's disappearance a 'bad situation' and promises to get to the bottom of it.

October 12: Trump again pledges to find out what happened to Khashoggi.

October 13: A pro-government newspaper reports that Turkish officials have an audio recording of Khashoggi's alleged killing from his Apple Watch, but details in the report come into question.

INTERNATIONAL UPROAR

October 14: Trump says that 'we're going to get to the bottom of it, and there will be severe punishment' if Saudi Arabia is involved. The kingdom responds with a blistering attack against those who threaten it, as the manager of a Saudi-owned satellite news channel suggests the country could retaliate through its oil exports. The Saudi stock exchange plunges as much as 7 percent at one point.

Khashoggi (pictured), went missing after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul

October 15: A Turkish forensics team enters and searches the Saudi Consulate, an extraordinary development as such diplomatic posts are considered sovereign soil. Trump suggests after a call with Saudi King Salman that 'rogue killers' could be responsible for Khashoggi's alleged slaying. Trump says Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will travel to the Mideast over the case. Meanwhile, business leaders say they won't attend an economic summit in the kingdom that's the brainchild of Prince Mohammed.

October 16: A high-level Turkish official tells the AP that 'certain evidence' was found in the Saudi Consulate proving Khashoggi was killed there. Pompeo arrives for meetings in Saudi Arabia with King Salman and Prince Mohammed. Meanwhile, Trump compares the case to the appointment of now-Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh during his confirmation hearing, saying: 'Here we go again with you're guilty until proven innocent.'

October 17: Pompeo meets with Turkey's president and foreign minister in the Turkish capital, Ankara. Turkish police search the official residence of Saudi Arabia's consul general in Istanbul and conduct a second sweep of the consulate.

October 18: A leaked surveillance photograph shows a member of Prince Mohammed's entourage walked into the consulate just before Khashoggi vanished there.

October 20: Saudi Arabia for the first time acknowledges Khashoggi was killed in the consulate, claiming he was slain in a 'fistfight.' The claim draws immediate skepticism from the kingdom's Western allies, particularly in the U.S. Congress.

October 22: A report says a member of Prince Mohammed's entourage made four calls to the royal's office around the time Khashoggi was killed. Police search a vehicle belonging to the Saudi consulate parked at an underground garage in Istanbul.

CCTV emerges showing a Saudi intelligence officer dressed in a fake beard and Jamal Khashoggi's clothes and glasses on the day he went missing.

October 23: Erdogan says Saudi officials murdered Khashoggi after plotting his death for days, demanding that Saudi Arabia reveal the identities of all involved.

October 25: Changing their story again, Saudi prosecutors say Khashoggi's killing was a premeditated crime.

.