Ray Stanford and His Ever-Receding Claims of World-Shaking UFO Evidences

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Justice Fodor, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    This thread is still where it is happening for posts discussing UFO films and other UFO evidences that Ray Stanford has claimed to possess, but that he has not released to the public, nor submitted for critical scrutiny by experts independent of him.

    Someone sent me a graphic on this theme that was posted on another forum, which I cannot resist sharing. I do not know who deserves the credit for it, but it did give me a chuckle. The left side of the graphic, labeled "Stanford University," refers to the research done at Stanford University and UCLA, by a team headed by Prof. Gary Nolan, into "Ata," a peculiar six-inch skeleton from Chile, which some had suggested might be alien. (The study found that Ata was a human skeleton, probably of a fetus, although with some interesting mutations.) The right side of the graphic depicts "ray Stanford University," home of the world's most impressive (to some) collection of UFO evidences.

    However, I have started a separate thread to explore certain instances in which Stanford has misrepresented or denied certain aspects of his actual UFO history, here.
     

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  2. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    I have been persuaded that my long comment above, dealing with Ray Stanford's one-time promotion of a super-power-inducing time-machine known as the Hilaron Accelerator, should have been posted as a separate thread. So I have just now started a separate thread that reproduces the story of Ray Stanford's Accelerator as it originally appeared above, with a few additional pieces of information incorporated. Please reserve comments on the Stanford time-machine subject for the new thread. General discussion of UFO-evidence claims by Stanford should continue here.
     
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  3. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    Although I already have access to substantial private collections of published material by and about Ray Stanford and his public claims, I am always interested in learning about the locations of additional pertinent documents and interviews, posted on the Internet or otherwise, or receiving copies of interesting documents (after preliminary email exchanges) if the sender has a right to possess them. I am appreciative for some of the material that I have been sent by others. My email address is my first name, followed by an underscore, followed by my last name, at protonmail.com. Any attempts to send malicious code may be reported to appropriate law enforcement authorities.
     
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  4. The shadow

    The shadow The shadow knows!

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    the more of your well written and researched post I read the more I'm beginning to become convinced R.S.
    has nothing. and C.O.B. is less than honest about seeing pics that R.S. has..
    as it was said pics or it did not happen.
     
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  5. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    I've never seen any reason to question Chris O'Brien's honesty. I've only met him once, and that was at a talk he gave 20 years ago, so I'm no authority in any sense, but he is not a liar. He certainly is no fool. I have spent enough time around Crestone to know he is highly regarded there, and I'm not talking about the star children or the portal hunters either. You don't gain the trust of ranchers and sheriffs, for example, without being honest and reliable.

    It seems obvious that Ray has shown him some things that impressed him greatly. That's really the only reason I think Ray might have something worth investigating. Ray's own behavior does nothing to inspire confidence, as far as I'm concerned. Being eccentric is not a crime, thank god, but he comes across as unstable and ill-tempered. What little evidence he has released publicly is anything but compelling. If we never get to see the good stuff, then he'll be written off as just another nut. If he has something worthy of all the hype, that would truly be a shame. That said, analyzing and vetting evidence does not take decades. Something there just doesn't add up.
     
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  6. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    "That's really the only reason I think Ray might have something worth investigating." -- Double Naught Spy

    I have said nothing, in the five Stanford-related threads I have started, that excludes the possibility that in the blizzard of public claims, there may be "something worth investigating." On the contrary, I have repeatedly said that any individual piece of claimed evidence ought to be put in the hands of persons who are capable of conducting a competent investigation, independently of Stanford. Whatever conclusions may be drawn based on proper analysis of unaltered images or other tangible data -- analysis not reliant on any favorable presumptions regarding Stanford's objectivity or candor -- should be made public. If it should happen that a specific piece of evidence, under competent analysis, stands on its own as anomalous, then Stanford should get appropriate credit for obtaining that evidence -- as he has received credit for discovery of various dinosaur tracks.

    (Even a verdict that an image or other UFO evidence is anomalous, however, would not necessarily validate all of the specific interpretations placed by Stanford upon an image or other piece of evidence -- any more than the undisputed authenticity of a given dinosaur track necessarily validates Stanford's detailed extrapolations regarding what the dinosaur that made the track was doing that day.)

    One problem, of course, is that very often witness testimony is an important component of analysis. Made-up example: The witness saw a great big bright light in the night sky, and right after she took the still photo, the object silently accelerated from a dead stop to great speed, and was out of sight in two seconds. If you exclude the witness testimony, all you have left is an overexposed photo of a blob of light. But there it is. In my view, Stanford long ago forfeited any claim to presumption of candor and objectivity.

    However, sometimes a piece of evidence may stand on its own, even under critical scrutiny. One Stanford claim that could be tested without any reliance upon Stanford's objectivity or candor is the so-called "Space Material," this being material that Stanford publicly claimed-- apparently even on TV -- he knows to be artificial and of extraterrestrial origin. In another thread, I suggested that Stanford test this public claim by lending the "Space Material" to the TTSA's Project ADAM for proper analysis.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  7. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    I think the approach you have taken in these threads is very appropriate. It is much like what I would expect O'Brien himself to do if he had never met Ray and it were someone else saying that Ray is the real deal, has mind-blowing photos and other data, and so on. Nobody with any sense is just going to take O'Brien's (or anyone else's) word for Ray's "proof". At this point it is not proof; just a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. If Ray is the real deal, then that situation could change overnight.
     
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  8. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i always suspected there was something off about COB, these posts have only confirmed my suspicion
     
  9. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    In one thread about Ray Stanford on another forum, Chris O'Brien wrote, "IMHO, he [Ray Stanford] is the only 'ufologist' that even comes close to mattering!"
     
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  10. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    Science replaces private prejudice with public, verifiable prejudice.

    FIFY.
     
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  11. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    Today I started "Ray Stanford Close-Up" thread no. 6, dealing further with "Aramda," the extraterrestrial "Brother" (i.e., member of the White Brotherhood) with whom Stanford said he had repeated contacts in the 1950s-1970s, some involving UFO close encounters. The new post includes audio excerpts of Stanford talking about his long (38,000-year!) association with Aramda, and Stanford channeling Aramda from a trance. This material provides important context for Stanford's claims about the origins and purposes of Project Starlight International.
     
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  12. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    is there such a thing as an ufologist that matters?
     
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  13. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    "is there such a thing as an ufologist that matters?"-- humanoidlord

    It is Chris O'Brien's humble opinion, clearly stated and with an exclamation mark, that there is only one who comes close to achieving that status.
     
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  14. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    So I've been frustrated about this thread for awhile now because I remembered seeing a very interesting image taken by Ray Stanford when he apparently got some 8mm film footage of a UFO. The image shows what appears to be a magnetic field effect known as Faraday rings surrounding the UFO. Here's a snapshot from the paper where this image appears, and I'm attaching the paper itself for anyone who wants to read it.

    I think that this kind of photographic evidence could be of enormous significance, and if Ray Stanford has more data like this, then it's quite possible that he's coveting the most scientifically significant collection of UFO data that exists in the public sector. Frankly I think that Chris O'Brien has seen significant portions of that data, and that's why he's such a vocal advocate of Ray Stanford's secret/hidden/private trove of empirical evidence.

    My thanks to @Dejan Corovic for reminding me where I could find this image - his exhaustive work locating and collecting the best scientific work in ufology is second to none.

    ScreenHunter_1041 Feb. 21 14.15.jpg

    In this same paper, Ray Stanford also provided these magnetometer readings which he apparently gathered from a UFO sighting event - Dejan has posted about this previously:

    ScreenHunter_1042 Feb. 21 14.17.jpg

    I don't have much to say about Ray Stanford because I've never really looked into his various claims and I know very little about him. I do know that I disagree with him about some things, and that he said a lot of wild stuff as a younger man. But when it comes to this particular effort - a serious and apparently successful attempt to gather scientific evidence directly from UFO sighting events - I applaud these kinds of results, and would like to see much more of this caliber of work in the public, where it could be studied and vetted properly.
     
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  15. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i think he should put all the data in the public domain, that image alone is very hard to interpret, not only it doesn't looks like a UFO, it doesn't looks like anything, just a weird possibly magnetic, possibly photographic effect surrounding a strange black structure
     
  16. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Better to deflower it and move on than try to understand?...

    ...
     
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  17. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    It's some pretty delicious irony that it does appear possible that the best evidence for ET reality outside The Guvimment's secret stash is in the hands of the most irascible, cantankerous, and prickly ufologist in the world. When Ray's competition for that title is considered, it is truly remarkable.

    As with most of the issues in these topics, I don't have an opinion. ET is here in metal ships. Or not. Ray has the goods. Or not. We don't know, but that doesn't stop us from shouting at others with whom we disagree. I actually don't care. If ET is here, he ain't bothering me. I like people who mind their own business. Though if he is here, he should be paying taxes. Somebody got to.
     
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  18. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    You'll get no argument from me about that - I'm a passionate advocate of transparency and the public sharing of all scientifically significant knowledge. And I also think that the survival of global civilization depends upon the kind of breakthrough technology that these devices represent, so there's a profound moral imperative to put his data out in the public domain so scientists can analyze it and if possible make use of it.

    We have to take a lot on faith without more supporting evidence, granted. But this "selective skepticism" of yours is incredibly hypocritical, and obviously a debating tactic rather than a sincere argument. You seem to believe every cock-eyed fish tale about private lunch dates with aliens and other wild fantasies that sound more like folklore than reality - but you stand by them with zero supporting evidence because the crazier a story is, the more it seems to support your "magical quasidimensional trickster god" hypothesis. And here we have what appears to be credible empirical evidence of genuine scientific value, and suddenly you're playing the skeptic. Pick one: either be a skeptic, or be a dewy-eyed true believer. Because what you're doing now is pure hypocrisy, and flagrantly duplicitous.

    I can't assume that the image above is actually what Ray Stanford claims that it is - an enlargement of a detail of one frame of 8mm film that caught a UFO in flight. But I tend to favor the view that it is exactly that, and I'd be willing to bet a few bucks on it. And if my hunch about this is right, then it's very interesting and very important empirical evidence that may be the most significant evidence in the public domain that reveals a clue about the crucial and otherwise invisible aspect of these devices - the nature of their field propulsion mechanism. In any case, the potential importance of this data is far too significant to brush off without a closer look. That's one of the many reasons that I find Ray Stanford's covetous decision to keep his larger data set private so frustrating - we need to be able to vet and analyze this film footage, and he's not letting anyone do that.

    Humanoidlord's job here is to undermine any promising avenue to understanding what we're dealing with, because his entire religious belief system about it mandates that it's incomprehensible by nature (the "cosmic trickster hypothesis"). That's why he posts 10,000 times per week - he has to beat down all of our efforts to get a better understanding of this phenomenon, and it's a lot of work because a lot of people are striving to make actual progress, and all of those efforts pose a direct threat to his cosmic trickster religion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
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  19. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    Wow, I missed the part about that image being part of an 8mm frame. That's a tiny negative, and I would not expect that kind of detail to be teased out of it.

    There are a few good reasons to think Ray has some amazing things locked up in a suitcase under his bed. If your world view is wide enough to allow it, it is fascinating to look at the forces that keep such things hidden away, either in a vault at a publicly owned research facility controlled by people who don't have enough of a clue, or in the closet of some nutty perfesser type. Such a world view will make it obvious that protests by people who can't deal with ET being real don't matter in the long run. My own opinions about whether ET exists, or how he gets here, or whether it's him or the local deer herd eating the neighbor's petunias, just has no bearing on what the actual situation is. The only rational approach for us is to look at the evidence and wait until the truth resolves itself in it. Patience is of extreme value here. Ray is good at testing it though!
     
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  20. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    If Ray Stanford actually has something valuable to contribute I would consider that the definition of irony. He is his own disinformation agent. Neat package. @Justice Fodor has done an excellent job. It is possible that RS might really have something but has shot himself in the foot.

    I've heard Chris O'Brien's comments about Ray and recently heard Chris Lambright express similar thoughts to Greg Bishop. Both are friends of RS and 'have a dog in the fight' to one degree or another.

    Just a caution about confirmation bias. Applies to TTSA too. Very interested to see what they eventually announce based on that tweet.
     
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