Ray Stanford's Claim to Have a Piece of a Gigantic Intergalactic Spacecraft (Space Material)(1971)

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Justice Fodor, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    Ray Stanford's Public Claim to Have a Piece
    of a Gigantic Intergalactic Spacecraft (the "Space Material")
    (c. 1971)

    This thread is a follow up to my earlier thread about Ray Stanford's claim to have possessed metallic material left behind by the UFO seen by policeman Lonnie Zamora at Socorro, New Mexico, in 1964 (titled Ray Stanford and his NASA-Goddard UFO-Metal Cover-Up Claim (1964).

    For a number of years, Stanford repeatedly made a second public claims to have obtained physical material that was of demonstrated extraterrestrial origin. He referred to this artifact as the "Space Material."

    I do not feel that I have the complete story on the "Space Material," but the documents that I have provide ample evidence to establish the basic nature of the Stanford claim.

    A newsletter published by the Austin-based, Stanford-centered nonprofit organization called the Association for the Understanding of Man (A.U.M.), dated October, 1971, contained this item, which I must quote at length (and I have uploaded the pertinent pages):

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    STANFORD LECTURES ON UFOs

    On Friday evening, October 15, 1971, Ray Stanford shared with about three hundred Austin residents some of his research regarding unidentified flying objects. Stanford has been carrying on investigations in this field for seventeen years. . . .

    In addition to the success of the lecture itself, considerable interest in unidentified flying objects was stirred up by the media in Austin. Stanford was a guest on two, thirty-minute television programs, both devoted exclusively to discussion of UFOs. Two local TV stations showed Mr. Stanford's composite 16mm color film of a UFO with a jet aircraft approaching over Corpus Christi, Texas. The two UFO films, from which the composite was made, were taken on July 28, 1959, in broad daylight, six days after Stanford spontaneously fell into an unconscious state, from which another person present was told that Stanford and he must get their movie cameras ready because the UFOs would appear "within seven days" in daylight, for them to get color movies. That is precisely what happened. The event and filming were well-witnessed.

    The highlight of the television coverage was a thirty-minute prime-time evening program, 'The Ed Brandon Show,' in which Ray showed what he calls 'Space Material' to the public for the first time, along with highlights of what well may be the highest quality collection of photographs (taken by persons all over the world) of UFOs ever put together. The 'Space Material' was definitely the featured attraction, however, being physical evidence of the existence of UFOs and extraterrestrial technology and intelligence.

    Stanford came into possession of the 'Space Material' in September, 1969. To the casual observer it looks like a strikingly beautiful fragment of a glassy appearing substance, with some copper particles attached. In actuality, however, it consists of a quite mysterious nonnatural material with a crystalline structure unlike any other known on Earth. Also, it shows additional evidence of technological processing.

    Although not told to the public at large, our members [i.e., members of the A.U.M.] might be interested to know that the [Stanford psychic trance] readings have confirmed that the 'Space Material' is the product of an advanced technological civilization in space; and actually is a piece of a gigantic spacecraft, which disintegrated in space several years ago. Pieces of the craft were scattered throughout the solar system and one sizeable chunk fell via an east-to-west course on San Antonio, Texas, in 1969.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So ends the excerpt from the October, 1971 A.U.M. newsletter. Again, a scan of the complete pages from the newsletter has been uploaded with this post.

    [I have been told that Stanford elsewhere offered elaborate details on the origins and nature of the "gigantic spacecraft," which was said to be as big as a city, and of the nature of the accident that caused it to become "disintegrated," allowing fragments to fortuitously fall within his reach (i.e., in the city where he lived)-- but those talks are not available to draw on at this time, and in any event, are not necessary to establish the basic nature of the public claim made by Stanford.]


    Currently (February, 2019) there is much interest in "Project ADAM," a project of the To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA) to obtain (on loan, when appropriate) "exotic materials," i.e., materials alleged to have been part of, or ejected by, UFOs. Aspects of the project are discussed here, and here.

    So then, the time seems ripe. In view of his oft-stated commitment to scientific investigation of "hard data" on UFOs, perhaps Ray Stanford would consider digging out his "Space Material" sample -- I speak of the very same sample that Stanford displayed to the television-viewing public in Austin, Texas, in October 1971 -- and lend it to TTSA for testing as part of Project ADAM.

    I'll bet the staff at TTSA would be pretty darned excited to get a substance that Stanford has already established (we just don't know how) is composed of "a quite mysterious nonnatural material with a crystalline structure unlike any other known on Earth," and that "shows additional evidence of technological processing."

    Also, unlike those duplicitous people at Goddard-NASA in Maryland (who Stanford says took every bit of his Socorro UFO-metal sample in 1964, and then suppressed the test results proving its extraterrestrial origin), the TTSA staff surely can be trusted to give the "Space Material" sample back to Stanford in good shape after they analyze it -- and I bet that the analysis would not take very long, in this case.

    But if he won't do that . . . why not?
     

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  2. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    *record scratch* wait what?
     
  3. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    so he showed UFO videos and a UFO fragment live in TV?
    where are the recordings????
     
  4. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    "so he showed UFO videos and a UFO fragment live in TV? where are the recordings????" -- humanoidlord

    Good luck with that archive search, and please post your results in this thread!

    The only specific program mentioned in the 1971 A.U.M. newsletter was The Ed Brandon Show. Cursory research finds that this program was broadcast in 1971 on KHFI-TV, which was at that time an NBC affiliate in Austin. The station has since gone through a bewildering succession of changes in channel designation, ownership, and affiliation, as summarized here. Ed Brandon moved to another station in different city in 1972, and died in 2018.
     
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  5. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Easily Amused

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    If not Ray, then who? If not now, then when?
     
  6. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    its never easy, is it?
     
  7. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    Ray Stanford Close-Up No. 6 -- audio clips of Stanford lecturing on, and channeling, Aramda, a member of the extraterrestrial Watchers. Includes Stanford's eyewitness remembering of the landing of a giant spacecraft -- 38,000 years ago.
     
  8. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    Two weeks after I began this thread on Ray Stanford's "Space Material" claim, I discovered that Stanford also referred to this material on a nationally syndicated television talk show, Donahue, in 1978.

    The program, hosted by Phil Donahue, in 1978 was based in Chicago and syndicated to about 148 stations. I could not find exact figures for the show's claimed audience in 1978, but it was in the neighborhood of 6 million people. Each show was broadcast live in Chicago, and on the other stations about a week later. I could not find the exact live-broadcast date, but Stanford's appearance was broadcast on a subscriber station on March 14, 1978. The guests were Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Stanford. Donahue presented Stanford as director of Project Starlight International, describing Stanford and his enterprise entirely in scientific terms (no references to Stanford's psychic channeling, previous claims of contacts with "space brothers," etc.).

    The Donahue live broadcast took call-ins. One caller asked why no one had obtained physical samples from UFOs. Stanford's response, in part, was this:

    Project Starlight has in its possession, we're trying to get some further tests done on it, some glassy material of unprecedented crystalline quality, that doesn't seem to be duplicable right now on Earth or in nature -- that may be -- it fell at hypersonic velocity from space -- could be evidence of UFOs, but we're not sure yet.

    Note that the claim was presented here in a slightly more qualified form than to Austin TV viewers seven years earlier. Still, here was Ray Stanford, now in his guise as an apostle of UFO hard science, telling an audience of roughly 6 million viewers that "Project Starlight" had "glassy material of unprecedented crystalline quality," a substance "that doesn't seem to be duplicable right now on Earth or in nature," a substance on which "we're trying to get some further tests done . . ."

    So, here are my questions about the "Space Material" claim, presented by Project Starlight Director Ray Stanford to 6 million people:

    What tests already had been performed on the "Space Material" that justified Stanford telling 6 million viewers in 1978 that the "Space Material" was "of unprecedented crystalline quality" and "doesn't seem to be duplicable on Earth right now"? In fact, what tests justified telling the members of the Association for the Understanding of Man in 1971 that "it consists of a quite mysterious nonnatural material with a crystalline structure unlike any other known on Earth. Also, it shows additional evidence of technological processing."?

    Was Stanford successful in accomplished his the intent he expressed to the 6 million Donahue viewers in 1978, of "get[ting] some further tests done"? If so, who did the subsequent tests, and where may their analyses be found? Did these subsequent tests (if performed) validate Stanford's 1971 and 1978 claims about the "Space Material," and if so, why have we not read about those world-shaking findings?

    However, if further tests by independent analysts were not in fact performed, or if they were performed and did not validate Stanford's claims that the material was of non-natural and non-terrestrial origin, would not either fact condemn future UFO-evidence claims by Stanford, under the admonition that Stanford himself posted on the UFO Updates list on June 6, 2003, to "please consider any analyst's reputation for making over-drawn conclusions about 'evidence' in the past"?

    [Jan. 26, 2020: I have added to this post an audio recording of Stanford's remarks regarding this material, from the Donahue broadcast of March 14, 1978.]
     

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  9. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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  10. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I do not know who originally said this or if its correct about the claim that TTSA has a piece of meta-material (Space Material) from the Roswell crash but could it be that they have a piece of Stanford's alleged material?...

    ...
     
  11. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    In my original posts in this thread (in February), I quoted public claims that Ray Stanford made about what he called "the Space Material" as early as 1971, and at least as late as his appearance on Donahue in 1978. In the 1978 appearance, Stanford said, "Project Starlight has in its possession, we're trying to get some further tests done on it, some glassy material of unprecedented crystalline quality, that doesn't seem to be duplicable right now on Earth or in nature . . ." In the 1971 newsletter published by the Association for the Understanding of Man, the material was described this way: "To the casual observer it looks like a strikingly beautiful fragment of a glassy appearing substance, with some copper particles attached. In actuality, however, it consists of a quite mysterious nonnatural material with a crystalline structure unlike any other known on Earth."

    I am aware of no actual evidence that the material to which Stanford referred was ever actually subjected to any competent examination. I suggested that since Stanford had possessed the material for 50 years, and had said in 1978 "we're trying to get further tests done on it," he ought to now offer it to the To the Stars Academy for testing as part of Project A.D.A.M. I made this suggestion without any expectation that Stanford would actually release the material for independent examination. One of the major themes of my "Ray Stanford Close Up" series has been to document Stanford's 60-year pattern of making public claims to possession of UFO-related evidences of extraordinary significance -- almost none of which have ever been subjected to evaluation by competent persons independent of Stanford and not reliant on Stanford's subjective claims. I have also shown that other world-shaking claims made by Stanford in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and later, have been disproven by events and/or repudiated by Stanford himself.

    To respond directly to the question posed by Nivek above: I have seen no information to suggest that Stanford's "Space Material" has been offered to or accepted by the To the Stars Academy for forensic examination -- but if someone knows otherwise, please post that information in this thread.

    As to the materials that are being studied under To the Stars auspices, the published descriptions are not very detailed, but I think that none of it sounds much like the "glassy" material described by Stanford.

    More to the point: To my knowledge, Stanford has never offered any actual evidence that the "Space Material" has any association at all with an alien spacecraft or UFO. The material fell out of the sky in San Antonio in 1969, and that event was apparently covered by the local news media at the time. The claim that the material had been part of an alien spacecraft was based on nothing more, apparently, than Stanford's wildly imaginative psychic-trance readings. As the 1971 newsletter put it, "Although not told to the public at large, our members [i.e., members of the A.U.M.] might be interested to know that the [Stanford psychic trance] readings have confirmed that the 'Space Material' is the product of an advanced technological civilization in space; and actually is a piece of a gigantic spacecraft, which disintegrated in space several years ago."

    Since my original posts in this thread, it was called to my attention that J. Allen Hynek apparently obtained some of the same material that Stanford called the "Space Material." This information was found in the book Forbidden Science 2, by Jacques Vallee, which consists of entries from Vallee's personal journals. The entry for July 8, 1970, contains this passage:

    Allen [Hynek] spoke effusively about his latest trip to the Southwest, from which he had brought back magnetic tapes and some crystals that had fallen from the sky into the yard of a man in San Antonio. Two official-looking fellows came to the man's door and requested the object, a bright amalgam with shining colors. They claimed to be with military intelligence. He declined to look at their papers. He said that if God had wanted it to fall on his land rather than the Pentagon, that was His business, not theirs.​

    The reader will note that there is nothing in the Vallee passage to indicate that Hynek thought the material was part of an exploded spacecraft.
     
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  12. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    During 2019, there was quite a lot of talk on various UFO forums about possible testing of debris or material thought by some to be associated with UFOs. Although some of the samples are referred by some people as "exotic materials" or "metamaterials," I have not seen any thoroughly substantiated findings, so far, that demonstrate anyone is in possession of material of a truly anomalous character. There has also been renewed interest in various claims that the government possesses UFO debris, captured craft, or the like -- some clearly fraudulent, others intriguing, none proven.

    Despite all of this talk, however, I have seen nothing suggesting that Ray Stanford has submitted his "space material" to any independent authority to determine if it truly is of artificial origin and anomalous character.

    Remember, Stanford made repeated public claims about this "space material," including statements made on Phil Donahue's television show in 1978 to an audience estimated at 6 million viewers, as follows;

    Project Starlight [Stanford's name for his UFO project at the time] has in its possession, we're trying to get some further tests done on it, some glassy material of unprecedented crystalline quality, that doesn't seem to be duplicable right now on Earth or in nature -- that may be -- it fell at hypersonic velocity from space -- could be evidence of UFOs, but we're not sure yet.
    Elsewhere, Stanford had told his followers that the material "actually is a piece of a gigantic spacecraft, which disintegrated in space several years ago."

    So, more than 40 years ago, Stanford, posing as a pioneer of hard-data UFO research, told 6 million people that he wanted to have testing done on this "space material." Four decades later, the world is still waiting with bated breath. It is just one more exhibit in the Stanford Museum of Extraordinary UFO Proofs -- a structure filled with claims that have been abandoned, forgotten, unfulfilled, disproven, or debunked.

    [On Jan. 26 2020, I added to this post an audio recording of Stanford's statement, quoted above, from the March 14 1978 Donahue show.]
     

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  13. coubob

    coubob Celestial

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  14. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    The claims of Ray Stanford to have personally obtained UFO evidences (movies, debris, etc.), over the six-plus decades that he has been making such claims, certainly would total many scores of distinct claims, or more. He claimed, for example, that he and his immediate associates had taken 8 color movies of UFOs just in the period Nov. 1977 to March 1980.

    You have uploaded a file that includes the Aug.-Sept. 1984 issue of the CUFOS Associate Newsletter, three pages of which were consumed by a letter from Ray Stanford discussing two movies he obtained on July 28, 1959, at Corpus Christi, Texas. These two movies (one 16mm, one 8mm) contained simultaneous footage of an object that Stanford considered anomalous. This event has nothing at all to do with Stanford's claims about the alien spacecraft that he believed blew up and produced "the Space Material," but I did write about his 1959 movies in a different thread in my "Ray Stanford Close-Ups" series, here.

    Even though Stanford's letter ran three pages in the 1984 newsletter, characteristically he managed to avoid mentioning the conclusion of NICAP after examining the two developed, unmanipulated movie films: "We conclude that the films themselves are authentic records of some object in the sky, but that they do not substantiate the verbal report and do not constitute significant evidence of UFOs as the matter now stands."

    However, NICAP did agree with Stanford's position that the object shown in the movies was not Venus (the "explanation" that was found recorded in the Project Blue Book files).
     
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  15. coubob

    coubob Celestial

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    Thanks, Justice Fodor. didnt find any movies but ...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Justice Fodor

    Justice Fodor "Nobody wants justice." -- Alan Dershowitz

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    The two images shown above, apparently produced by Ray Stanford, are very misleading. The caption on the first image says that "Space Materials Division, Goddard Space Flight Center found [the sample] to be a strange alloy of zinc and iron." The caption to the second image has a longer quote that supposedly came from a senior scientist at Goddard (in 1964), Dr. Henry Frankel.

    I have written in detail about this matter elsewhere in this series of "Ray Stanford Close Ups," and I recommend that anyone with interest read that account, here, as well as the attached documents by the late and esteemed UFO researcher Richard Hall. In summary, Stanford claimed (in his book on Socorro, published 12 years after the events) that a senior Goddard scientist, Dr. Henry Frankel, told Stanford on the phone that Goddard's testing had discovered the material on the rock to be an exotic alloy. Stanford's book goes on for pages reciting long direct quotes attributed to Frankel. The quotes were based, Stanford claimed, on detailed notes he took -- which, however, Stanford never produced.

    Richard Hall of NICAP, who was personally involved in the entire series of events, wrote two detailed refutations of Stanford's claims, both of which I attach again to this post. Here is an excerpt from Hall's 1976 review of Stanford's book:

    I consider Stanford's account of NICAP's part in the Socorro investigation -- and particularly his unfounded claims of a secret, positive analysis report on the alleged "metal scrapings on the rock"-- to be both a highly distorted and a highly subjective version of what transpired. . . .His entire case rests on two apparently undocumented and unverifiable alleged phone calls that only he can witness. In addition, no one else involved in the Socorro investigation remembers the startling (and presumably unforgettable) positive NASA analysis report that only Stanford remembers....It is apparent to me that, far from "verbatim" quotes, Stanford has paraphrased remarks out of context, and taken serious liberties in doing so. His psychic and "contactee" background and his conspiratorial turn of mind give me little confidence that he, alone, has succeeded in uncovering truth where others have failed.​
     

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  17. goblin

    goblin Noble

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    Thanks again Justice Fodor.

    Last I knew, which admittedly has probably been longer ago than I realize (10 years?) there were people who were still willing to come out swinging when Ray Stanford's credibility is called into question.

    When I first was introduced to the topic of Stanford, that he found some dinosaur tracks and was initially dismissed by recognized experts made me think OK, assess carefully, maybe he's right about something here, too. But I will say that was in a context absent his truly over the top history which has been made much more evident in Justice Fodor's posts here.

    I can only think some people still hope if they stick up for him or continue to give him the benefit of a doubt he'll eventually let them see his data or evidence or what have you. That or they just like or believe the guy which, well, it's a free world.
     
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  18. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Well said, this thread is great reading, wanted to bump this up, awesome!...

    ...
     
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  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Bump...

    ...
     

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