Roswell, can we finally let it go?

[Todd Feinman]

I don't know what to think about the Roswell incident. I know just a few days before whatever happened there, there were UFOs seen all around the Pacific NW. I know that General Craigie who was the Chief Engineer at Roswell at the time told my friend Barbara that they were real. He also had to take down pictures in his study when visitors would come by so people wouldn't be shocked. I have found articles about an incident where a Skyhook balloon technician watched a UFO come up to a balloon, and another military balloon technician watched a group of small disks attach themselves to the instrument package on a balloon before flying off. But none of that is proof.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Over the years some interesting bits have popped up:

Ben Games and Roswell

kevinrandle.blogspot.com

Famed Navy Captain: 'I tested the Roswell UFO crash debris'

In an extraordinary confirmation that the Roswell UFO debris was tested by select engineers and scientists, a noted historian has come forward to state that his father, the former Commander of White Sands Missile Range in the 1940s, was made to analyze some of the material found at the crash site.

nexusnewsfeed.com

 

[pigfarmer]

I don't know what to think about the Roswell incident. I know just a few days before whatever happened there, there were UFOs seen all around the Pacific NW. I know that General Craigie who was the Chief Engineer at Roswell at the time told my friend Barbara that they were real. He also had to take down pictures in his study when visitors would come by so people wouldn't be shocked. I have found articles about an incident where a Skyhook balloon technician watched a UFO come up to a balloon, and another military balloon technician watched a group of small disks attach themselves to the instrument package on a balloon before flying off. But none of that is proof.

I am willing to believe something crashed there but you're right it's long on anecdote and short on proof. Too much time has passed if the sons and grandsons are being interviewed. You want to hear the tale then great but even if literally true without proof it's just a story.

Didn't anybody have anything to say about Roswell before Berlitz and Moore ? What about the residents ?

People still believe in the Bermuda Triangle although the evidence has shown nothing that remarkable about the area. Lloyd's of London would tell you that and yet there are many who still feel it's Atlantis, a time portal, etc. The Philadelphia Experiment endures and has become even more fantastical, all with nothing more than anecdotal stories good authors and fertile imaginations. Great stories which is what they were written to be. 'Don't be too concerned about facts'

Thanks guys, thanks a bunch for that.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Stanton Friedman I think opened the can 'o aliens when he interviewed Jesse Marcel in '78, then a lot of other folks came out of the woodwork.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I am willing to believe something crashed there but you're right it's long on anecdote and short on proof. Too much time has passed if the sons and grandsons are being interviewed. You want to hear the tale then great but even if literally true without proof it's just a story.

Didn't anybody have anything to say about Roswell before Berlitz and Moore ? What about the residents ?

People still believe in the Bermuda Triangle although the evidence has shown nothing that remarkable about the area. Lloyd's of London would tell you that and yet there are many who still feel it's Atlantis, a time portal, etc. The Philadelphia Experiment endures and has become even more fantastical, all with nothing more than anecdotal stories good authors and fertile imaginations. Great stories which is what they were written to be. 'Don't be too concerned about facts'

Thanks guys, thanks a bunch for that.

When I was a kid I was fascinated & scared of the Bermuda Triangle. But little did I know that by age 19 I'd be flying through it constantly while in the Navy. I interpreted it as; if you pass through there - you either go missing & your plane, ship or submarine end up in a desert like in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. One of the cases where I wish they could find the aircraft is navy flight 19 out of Ft. Lauderdale.

 

[pigfarmer]

When I was a kid I was fascinated & scared of the Bermuda Triangle. But little did I know that by age 19 I'd be flying through it constantly while in the Navy. I interpreted it as; if you pass through there - you either go missing & your plane, ship or submarine end up in a desert like in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. One of the cases where I wish they could find the aircraft is navy flight 19 out of Ft. Lauderdale.

You might like this, it's well very done sand informative.
Bruce Gannon and 'electronic fog' are part of this. He sounds great, his story is good but don't waste any money on his book. It's a stinker.

Ep 65: Flight 19 Part 1 — Astonishing Legends
Ep 66: Flight 19 Part 2 — Astonishing Legends
Ep 67: Flight 19 Part 3 — Astonishing Legends

 

[max]

mystery is it ballon or ufo

 

[nivek]

New 'compelling evidence' found at Roswell UFO site could prove alien craft crashed in 1947, experts say​

America's most famous UFO case is still producing more evidence as scientists and civilians are on a mission to prove that the Roswell crash was not of this world.

The 1947 incident made headlines when the US Army Air Force issued a press release stating that it had recovered debris from a 'flying disc' — only later to reverse course, claiming that the material had really just belonged to a downed weather balloon.

Geologist Frank Kimbler is among the many experts who have challenged the military's official version of what crashed on the outskirts of this New Mexico town, where he has scoured the alleged UFO's crash site with a metal detector since 2010.

Kimbler has since uncovered over 20 unusual scraps of metal material, most no bigger than a fingernail, and has now submitted one uniquely odd metal for testing to the Discovery Channel's new series 'Alien Encounters: Fact or Fiction.'

Testing revealed that the metal was '100-percent pure aluminum,' which experts said was 'compelling evidence' that could prove aliens crashed in the area decades ago.

Geologist Frank Kimbler uncovered over 20 unusual scraps of metal material, most no bigger than a fingernail, and has now submitted one uniquely odd metal for testing to the Discovery Channel's new series ' Alien Encounters: Fact or Fiction.

Kimbler (above with his possible UFO crash sample) had pulled this roughly quarter-inch metal fragment from an ant hill where the bugs had stored it. He submitted the aluminum sample for testing by the new Discovery Channel series.

'I was really trying to champion truth throughout,' the new series' cohost, Chrissy Newton, told DailyMail.com, adding that she was not afraid to debunk a few celebrated UFO cases, if that's where the facts led.

'I want to prove that it's identifiable,' Newton said, 'not everyone's gonna like that.'

Nevertheless, Newton found the tests on the pure aluminum mystery metal to be compelling, she said, in part because a former Pentagon UFO investigator has told her that 'pure aluminum has been connected to multiple other UFO crash sites.'

While Newton did not name her Pentagon source, she described them as 'a source formerly from AATIP,' the US military's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, which from 2007 to 2012 had been tasked (in part) with studying UFOs.

'Most Al [aluminum] in use are anodized Al,' Dr Hossain noted, a process that creates a thin layer of aluminum, reacted with oxygen, to seal off the interior aluminum from rust-like degradation caused by reactions with the air. This sample, he said, had 'not been anodized'.

Kimbler, who teaches earth sciences and geology at the New Mexico Military Institute, told Newton and her cohost that he had pulled this particular metal fragment, roughly a quarter-inch long, from an ant hill within the Roswell debris field.

Testing ant hills for ant-harvested metals, the geologist noted, has been a common tactic for gold prospectors, mining geologists, and metal detector hobbyists alike.

The insect colonies are known for collecting sturdy and sometimes buried materials for to build their tunnel systems, according to Jim Davis of Utah's geology survey.

'Thanks to the ant's undertakings, prospectors have discovered rich lodes of gold, copper, nickel, turquoise, diamonds, and many other minerals,' Davis said.

Over the years, Kimbler has been open that many of the metal fragments he's recovered from the infamous crash site might have a more earthbound explanation.

'Some of it could be trash, camper trash,' he told KRQE in 2018 after the Bureau of Land Management caught wind of his hobby, 'but some of it could be interesting.'

To confirm what Kimbler actually found, the new Discovery Channel series sent the metal sample for chemical testing via mass spectrometry to independent experts at the Texas-based firm Cerium Labs, which specializes is aluminum metallurgy.

Dr Tom Hossain, chief scientist at Cerium Labs, reported that the aluminum metal fragment was not only unusual for its purity, but it also differed from the typical industrial-grade aluminum used in manufacturing.

'Most Al [aluminum] in use are anodized Al,' Dr Hossain said.
Anodizing is an electrochemical process that converts the metal surface into a decorative, durable and corrosion-resistant finish known as an anodic oxide.

It protects the metal underneath that finish from corroding in reactions with the oxygen molecules present in both air and water.

'This is not an alloy,' Dr Hossain wrote. 'This is pure aluminum.'

Kimbler's find joins a growing body of eyewitness testimony, and even declassified government records, that appear to indicate that the Roswell crash included some form of exotic metal materials.

More than 40 witnesses to the Roswell crash mentioned that a metal-like material from the site could 'remember itself' when folded or physically altered, according to UFO researcher Anthony Bragalia.

Bragalia obtained over 150 pages from the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) in 2021 via a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, which he said included telling new evidence about where this 'memory metal' may have ended up.

The records included pages that repeatedly mention 'advanced technology reports' surrounding Nitinol, described as a shape recovery alloy.

Nitinol had similar properties to the 'memory metal' found near the Roswell crash site, according to Bragalia.
Pages from the FOIA reply indicate that the Pentagon was exploring whether Nitinol could be integrated into the human body for the improvement of health, the researcher wrote at his blog, UFO Explorations.

Today, even the lead author of the Air Force's official and final Roswell report in 1994, Colonel Weaver, has come forward to caution that the current official explanation is inconclusive: 'Did we say it was 100-percent? No way. We didn't say that' (above, the military's first explanation).

'Although much of the reports' details are redacted, what can be gleaned is that these technologies represent a literal quantum leap beyond the properties of all existing material known to man,' Bragalia said.

'Based on the documentation received,' he added, 'it appears that the retrieved debris exhibits other extraordinary capabilities.'

'In addition to 'remembering' their original form when bent or crushed, some of these futuristic materials have the potential to make things invisible, 'compress' electromagnetic energy, and even slow down the speed of light,' Bragalia said.

UFO researcher Tony Bragalia has argued that debris from the Roswell crash was flown to Wright Field in Greene County, Ohio, with Battelle Memorial Institute soon securing a contract to start remaking the UFO's 'memory metal' Nitinol, using Nickel and ultra-high purity Titanium.

Today, even the lead author of the Air Force's official 1994 report, Colonel Richard Weaver, that revisited the Roswell case has come forward to caution that the military's current official explanation is by no means conclusive.

'Did we say it was 100-percent? Col. Weaver said on a 2020 podcast. 'No way. We didn't say that.'

Col Weaver also alluded ominously to 'politics and a lot of manipulation going on behind the scenes' of his 1994 inquiry, but added he is still confident in his report's explanation - that a secret military spy balloon was what crashed at Roswell.

Not every case to come to the hosts of Discovery's new 'Alien Encounters' reaches this level of fascinating physical evidence and documentation, however, as the show examines each submitted 'alien encounter' to the same high investigative standards.

Roswell base intel officer Major Jesse Marcel (above) has claimed he was forced to pose before reporters with weather-balloon debris that he did not witness at the Roswell UFO crash site.

Above, Major Marcel posing with that more prosaic crashed weather balloon debris.

(More on the link)

.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

View: https://youtu.be/xBRsxg9opgI

 

[Dejan Corovic]

This guy is retired police inspector and he had done such good job of finding and interviewing everybody who had been present around Roswell UFO.

Anyhow, there are tons of new details and filling of blanks. He said that craft was filled with liquid. If you remember that case with US marine who was recovering UFO crashed into side of mountain he as well said that lots of liquid leaked out of UFO.

UFOs having cockpits filled with liquid makes a lots of sense because liquid would reduce G-forces as well as help occupants breathe. Another thing was that occupants had Velcro like material on the back of their suits and their seats and they were sort off glued to their seats. Again makes sense in presence of high G-forces:


View: https://youtu.be/5wW7e8k_CK8

 

[Alien UFO]

Just like in my country, when people discuss UFO and alien events, they can only think of Meng Zhaoguo event, Huang Yanqiu event and the Air Strange Vehicle event. However, in my personal opinion, these three events are actually half - true and half - false, and a large number of cases worthy of study are instead buried among the common people.

 

[pigfarmer]

Meng Zhaoguo event, Huang Yanqiu event and the Air Strange Vehicle event

Never heard of them and Google has not been illuminating.

What are those cases?

 

[Alien UFO]

Never heard of them and Google has not been illuminating.

What are those cases?

These three cases are quite well-known in China. Even some people who are not interested in the phenomenon of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) know them more or less (relevant documentaries and interview programs about these three cases have been broadcast on our national TV stations). However, they don't seem to be famous internationally.

It's rather complicated to talk about these three cases, and it's hard to explain them clearly in just a few sentences. The Meng Zhaoguo incident is a typical case of alien abduction. The Huang Yanqiu incident is rather strange, and I don't know how to describe it (although several news media claimed in 2021 that Huang Yanqiu admitted in an interview that year that he had lied to the so-called China UFO Research Association about the whole incident, but this has not been verified).

As for the "Strange Airborne Vehicle" incident, it's quite interesting. It happened in a forest in Guizhou Province, China. Multiple witnesses said that they saw several huge luminous spheres flying over the forest and they also heard a loud rumbling sound. On the second night, the trees in an area of this forest all fell down neatly. Moreover, researchers found strange traces suspected to be left by the landing of a UFO here, as well as radioactive and electromagnetic substances.

 

[Alien UFO]

Never heard of them and Google has not been illuminating.

What are those cases?

The Meng Zhaoguo incident is a case that I'm quite interested in. In 1994, Meng Zhaoguo, a farmer from Heilongjiang Province in China, and his nephew-in-law Li Honghai both saw an unidentified flying object (UFO) that looked like a tadpole. Or rather, its main body was in the shape of a disc, but several objects similar to tails extended from the back of the disc, making it look like a tadpole.

Later, Meng Zhaoguo underwent hypnosis and said that on a night after witnessing the UFO, he was hijacked by several humanoid creatures wearing black one-piece suits, with only two square eyes (possibly something like goggles) exposed and having six fingers. He claimed that those creatures took him away from his home. Meng Zhaoguo and these humanoid creatures passed directly through the wall and flew to a nearby mountain, where the tadpole-shaped UFO he had seen before was parked.

Those humanoid creatures then took Meng Zhaoguo into the UFO (Meng Zhaoguo himself said that his feet didn't touch the ground throughout the process. It seemed that he floated into the interior of the UFO. Moreover, he didn't enter the "big head" part of the disc or the so-called tadpole but entered the interior of the extended part similar to the tail). There were five or six such humanoid creatures in the UFO. They told Meng Zhaoguo in standard Chinese that they came from a planet called "Hamam" and informed him that the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet was going to collide with Jupiter.

Meng Zhaoguo saw that the interior of the UFO was very spacious, with only a square object suspended in mid-air. The interior of the room emitted a soft light, and on the square object, there appeared something like a 3D graphic showing the scene of the comet colliding with Jupiter. Then Meng Zhaoguo was sent back home by those creatures. Meng Zhaoguo recalled that the sounds of the communication among those creatures were like the human voice played at double speed or like the sounds of mice, but when they communicated with him, they used standard Chinese.

 

[Alien UFO]

The following are four pictures I sent. The first two pictures show the appearance of the humanoid creatures that Meng Zhaoguo encountered, which were restored by some UFO enthusiasts and a documentary at that time based on Meng Zhaoguo's account. (Personally, I don't think the restoration is accurate, because Meng Zhaoguo said that these humanoid creatures were actually very plump, a bit like the shape on the Michelin logo.) The last two pictures are respectively a clay model of the UFO that Meng Zhaoguo saw, which was made by himself with clay, and a sketch of the UFO drawn by enthusiasts according to his description. (What adds credibility to this incident is that many villagers in the village where Meng Zhaoguo lived actually saw this UFO. However, only Meng Zhaoguo and Li Honghai got close to it. The other villagers only saw the general outline of the UFO parked on the mountain. They said that the object reflected sunlight very strongly and looked white all over.) In addition, there is an interesting point about this incident. Meng Zhaoguo recalled that there was actually a female alien who had a relationship with him, although it seemed to be only for more than ten seconds... Many skeptics criticized Meng Zhaoguo for lying because of this, but Meng Zhaoguo actually passed a lie detector test. I have watched relevant documentaries and interview programs, and I think Meng Zhaoguo himself should have really experienced this incident, but maybe there are some exaggerations in the incident itself, because the China UFO Research Association got involved, and they like to hype up some things. Maybe Meng Zhaoguo also exaggerated some things because of interest relationships. (Strangely enough, around 2018, Meng Zhaoguo suddenly said that these aliens found him again in 2016 and gave him a meteorite to prove their visit. The meteorite was later sent for testing, and the test results proved that it was indeed a meteorite.)

 

[Alien UFO]

As for the Huang Yanqiu incident, I think this incident can't even be classified as a case of encountering aliens (although the China UFO Research Association insists that it's a case of alien contact). In 1977, after attending a meeting in the commune, Huang Yanqiu went back to his room to sleep. As a result, when he woke up overnight, he found himself in the middle of a square in Shanghai. He was very scared because he didn't know the city at all. At this time, two people in military uniforms came over and helped him get a train ticket back to his village. However, a few months later, one night when he was sleeping at home and woke up, he found himself in Shanghai again. There were two people again. They gave Huang Yanqiu directions to find a person named Lü Qingtang in the Shanghai Military Region (this Lü Qingtang was a relative of Huang Yanqiu). But Huang Yanqiu didn't know how to find the military region at all. So the two people directly took Huang Yanqiu to the military region. The sentries at the gate seemed to be unable to see them and didn't ask any questions at all. When Huang Yanqiu found Lü Qingtang, Lü Qingtang was quite shocked because he didn't expect Huang Yanqiu to come directly. He asked Huang Yanqiu how he got here. Huang Yanqiu said that two people brought him in. But Lü Qingtang searched all over the military region and couldn't find these two people. The sentries also said that they didn't see anyone coming in at all. Then Lü Qingtang sent Huang Yanqiu back to Shanghai. The secretary of Huang Yanqiu's village also said that the Shanghai Reception Station sent them a telegram asking them to pick up Huang Yanqiu.

However, the incident still hadn't reached its climax. A few months later, Huang Yanqiu fainted after finishing farm work. This time, he found himself in a hotel room in Lanzhou, and the two people who had helped him before were standing beside him. These two people claimed that they were responsible for all of Huang Yanqiu's disappearances this time and the previous two times. Huang Yanqiu asked them why they did this, but they didn't answer. Then these two people took Huang Yanqiu on trips around Lanzhou. What surprised me the most was that Huang Yanqiu said that these two people carried him while flying, and the people below seemed to be unable to see their existence. During Huang Yanqiu's third disappearance, he visited quite a number of cities. It was those two people who carried him in the air. He said that he couldn't feel the air flowing when flying. He felt that the flying speed wasn't fast and that they didn't fly high. He could even see the cars running on the road below... Huang Yanqiu said the same thing when he was under hypnosis. But during the hypnosis process, Huang Yanqiu said that those two people told him not to disclose their affairs, and then Huang Yanqiu suddenly broke free from the hypnotic state.

This incident is very famous in China. However, some people found that there were contradictions between Huang Yanqiu's testimony and that of Lü Qingtang in the military region. And a lot of the evidence provided by Huang Yanqiu came from the hands of a person named Yi Jianmin in the UFO Research Association. In 2021, some news media reported that Huang Yanqiu admitted in an interview that all of this was fabricated by him and the UFO Research Association for the sake of making money. Huang Yanqiu claimed that in fact, back then, he took advantage of others' inattention and boarded a train to Shanghai in order to avoid collective labor and his marriage. (In those days, rural people had to get certificates from the village leaders and organizations before they could go out, and it was quite inconvenient to travel.)

 

[pigfarmer]

Very interesting, it shares some similarities with some other cases like Pascagoula Abduction

Providing veridical evidence in advance is extremely rare. Not to be a party pooper but Shoemaker-Levy was already in the news cycle at that point. How aware of that was a Chinese farmer?

I haven't the slightest clue, my impressions of Chinese farmers come from my extremely vague memories of Pearl S. Buck's The Good Earth that was required reading in school. That was a long time ago .........

So, not to put too fine a point on it: how far out in the sticks were Meng Zhaoguo and his nephew ? I'd imagine their access to information isn't the same as here but I honestly have no clue. My impression is of a rural farm out in the hinterlands somewhere which would only add to his credibility but I also know that farmers are quite sophisticated and things aren't always as they seem.

This case must've made quite a stir if it's still being talked about. I'm curious how big and widespread interest in UFOs is in China. My guess is probably not all that much different than here except maybe how information is shared.

 

[Alien UFO]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Chinese people are not interested in UFOs and aliens at all, and even think that they are completely fabricated. Even among those who are interested in supernatural phenomena, they are more keen on superstitions about ghosts and gods rather than UFOs and aliens (which is probably why, in China, when people mention UFOs and aliens, most of them will only repeatedly mention the names of Meng Zhaoguo and Huang Yanqiu and often treat such topics with a joking attitude). As for Meng Zhaoguo himself, he doesn't have a high educational level. I remember that the news report said that he only had an elementary school education and had never known anything about UFOs before. However, the main problem with this case is that later the UFO Research Association got involved. They were fond of hyping up, exaggerating and even fabricating some information for the sake of making profits, which may have made the Meng Zhaoguo incident mixed with a lot of untrue content.

Very interesting, it shares some similarities with some other cases like Pascagoula Abduction

Providing veridical evidence in advance is extremely rare. Not to be a party pooper but Shoemaker-Levy was already in the news cycle at that point. How aware of that was a Chinese farmer?

I haven't the slightest clue, my impressions of Chinese farmers come from my extremely vague memories of Pearl S. Buck's The Good Earth that was required reading in school. That was a long time ago .........

So, not to put too fine a point on it: how far out in the sticks were Meng Zhaoguo and his nephew ? I'd imagine their access to information isn't the same as here but I honestly have no clue. My impression is of a rural farm out in the hinterlands somewhere which would only add to his credibility but I also know that farmers are quite sophisticated and things aren't always as they seem.

This case must've made quite a stir if it's still being talked about. I'm curious how big and widespread interest in UFOs is in China. My guess is probably not all that much different than here except maybe how information is shared.

 

[Alien UFO]

Yes, the most astonishing thing about the Meng Zhaoguo case is that he predicted the Shoemaker-Levy comet's impact on Jupiter, and later he provided a meteorite, which he claimed was given to him by aliens, as physical evidence.

Very interesting, it shares some similarities with some other cases like Pascagoula Abduction

Providing veridical evidence in advance is extremely rare. Not to be a party pooper but Shoemaker-Levy was already in the news cycle at that point. How aware of that was a Chinese farmer?

I haven't the slightest clue, my impressions of Chinese farmers come from my extremely vague memories of Pearl S. Buck's The Good Earth that was required reading in school. That was a long time ago .........

So, not to put too fine a point on it: how far out in the sticks were Meng Zhaoguo and his nephew ? I'd imagine their access to information isn't the same as here but I honestly have no clue. My impression is of a rural farm out in the hinterlands somewhere which would only add to his credibility but I also know that farmers are quite sophisticated and things aren't always as they seem.

This case must've made quite a stir if it's still being talked about. I'm curious how big and widespread interest in UFOs is in China. My guess is probably not all that much different than here except maybe how information is shared.

 

[pigfarmer]

later the UFO Research Association got involved

Sounds like the Travis Walton Abduction. He was allegedly abducted and it was some weird UFO group that picked him up when he reappeared naked and shivering days later. First thing they wanted from him was a large urine sample. WTF ?? Later a movie was made and the encounter only barely resembled what he initially said happened to him.

That does nothing to add credibility.

This is one of those cases with opinions all over the place, some feel Walton is sincere and of good character and should be believed. He has made himself a regular at UFO conventions and so forth. In my opinion he may be a nice guy but there are inconsistencies that make me pretty skeptical of this one.