The BETTY HILL STAR MAP and My Own Suggestions

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Jim_from_the_South, Oct 29, 2021.

  1. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    Barney and Betty Hill were an American couple who claimed they were abducted by extraterrestrials in a rural portion of the state of New Hampshire from September 19 to 20, 1961. It was the first widely publicized report of an alien abduction in the United States.

    Obviously this was attacked on all sides and claimed as a hoax by every skeptic then breathing. I have no dog in this fight - I will not argue the merits of her description of the alien group that she saw, nor the craft and its design. I'd like to comment on a star map that she furnished after several hypnosis sessions that she undertook in order to help her recall their encounter.

    Some claim that hypnosis participants are fairly easily led to one opinion or another, depending upon the qualifications of the hypnotist. I will state that, given the enormous stress that is apparent in abductees, and then the pressure applied on them by various members of Government agencies and "friendly" investigators who are only "trying to help them", whatever helps is fair, in my opinion.

    Most of the reports I have read seem to indicate, either directly or indirectly, that Betty Hill drew from memory a map of a section of the stars that portrayed the Zeta Reticuli system. That's not at all true. Neither Betty nor Barney Hill knew which system the aliens had showed to Betty, and Betty did not recognize the pattern of the stars. It was "others", those "some researchers" who printed the "fact" that it was Zeta Reticuli being drawn. And Zeta Reticuli is probably not the best answer, as we shall see.

    It's funny because great pains have to be applied to make her original map match those stars. So the pattern seems to have been - (1) suggest some star systems, (2) convince Betty that these matched her drawings and thus she was not "crazy" after all, and (3) then debunk your own suggestions and repeat processes one through three again.

    Under hypnosis, Betty Hill described a map she was shown "by the leader aboard the ship."
    Later, she sketched it. She said she was told that the heavy lines marked regular trade routes, and the broken lines recorded various space expeditions. The article in Wakipedia, of course, got the last part wrong - perhaps intentionally. They mention that "dashed lines were to less-traveled stars", and that's not quite the same as Betty's report of "broken lines recorded various space expeditions". A mention of space expeditions undertaken, by an extraterrestrial visiting Earth, and a star map of these, might make a lot of sense, depending upon the map, as I will outline below.

    Though the map she saw had many stars, she drew only those that stood out in her memory. Her map consisted of twelve prominent stars connected by lines and three lesser ones that formed a distinctive triangle.

    With all the attention the couple was receiving in the newspaper, the following year (1965) a map was published in the New York Times. It was a map of certain stars south of the celestial equator, and the accompanying caption read "Radio source called CTA-102, marked on the map with a cross, in the direction of constellation Pegasus, may be sending intelligent radio emissions, Russian believes."

    This is what we might call the first shot across the bows. They decide to release something vaguely relating to a map of the source of "intelligent radio emissions from space" along with the words "Russian". And that gets your attention. But they leave out his name, his credentials or experience, and any sources or confirmation for the idea. This is a crystal clear attempt at disinformation. While being visible in the Northern Hemisphere, the Constellation Pegasus does not actually have its stars aligned in corresponding patterns that might be similar to Mrs. Hill's drawing. Not at all.

    Some of our accredited Astronomers seemed to feel that the map might have a sliver of truth to it, after all, and they published the report along with a request for comments or input. In the December 1974 issue of Astronomy, the then-editors published a lead feature story titled "The Zeta Reticuli Incident." The well-known astronomy writer Terence Dickinson, then Astronomy’s Editor, penned the article. It probably cost Terry his job, as he was gone from the magazine a few months later. Astronomy was just a year and a half old at the time, and this story set the fledgling magazine’s credibility back a long way.

    But after several years the magazine’s fortunes recovered and by 1980, the time of the Voyager flybys, Astronomy became the world’s most widely read publication on the subject. Probably because they no longer had any open-minded editors on the staff and they began regurgitating the standard answers that the scientific community and our Intelligence agencies approved of. No more of those messy alien reports, please.

    My objective, as stated above, was to examine the original map drawn by Betty Hill, which I obtained from the Hill's original story in "The Interrupted Journey: Two Lost Hours Aboard a Flying Saucer" by John G. Fuller. This was published by The Dial Press, New York, (C) 1966. Yes, Stanton Friedman and others also wrote about the Betty and Barney Hill incident, but since I wished to use the originally drawn map and nothing more, I did not read them.

    Under hypnosis Betty Hill recalled that she had, while inside the alien craft, picked up a book with rows of strange symbols that the "leader" (of the extraterrestrial crew members) said she could take home with her. She also asked from where he came, and he pulled down an instructional map dotted with stars. I've read in other reports that Betty mentioned the leader's surprise when she did not recognize any of the stars on the map she saw on-board. There's a reasonable explanation for that which I will furnish below.

    Simon began hypnotizing the Hills on January 4, 1964. He hypnotized Betty and Barney several times each, and the sessions lasted until June 6, 1964. Simon conducted the sessions on Barney and Betty separately, so they could not overhear one anothers recollections. At the end of each session, he reinstated amnesia. When I first read this last sentence it seemed odd to me that he would "induce" or "reinstate" amnesia. Wasn't the idea to open up their memories?

    In 1968 Marjorie Fish of Oak Harbor, Ohio, read Fuller's book, Interrupted Journey. Fish was an elementary school teacher and amateur astronomer. Intrigued by the "star map," Fish wondered if it might be "deciphered" to determine which star system the UFO came from.

    I applaud Miss Fish for her labor in attempting to clarify the situation. But let's examine what she did first. First, she assumed that one of the fifteen stars on the map must represent Earth's Sun. Why? If the map was already published and available on-board the craft for Betty to examine, it may not have had all of the current journey's destinations on it. Earth might represent one of those "various space expeditions" indicated by dotted lines according to the leader, and thus it might not even appear until new maps were created by his scientists. It might be that his map included the "known" planets; consisting of the usual trade planets plus the planets that they had previously explored and added to their maps.

    But why would the "leader" seem confused when Betty did not recognize the stars on the map? If the map did indeed represent the constellation containing Zeta Reticuli and other stars, including our Sun, as Miss Fish suggested, it would be understandable if Betty did not have any recognition of it. Because Zeta Reticuli is not visible in the night sky to those living in the Northern Hemisphere, where Betty and Barney lived (New Hampshire).

    Zeta Reticuli is visible in the night sky in the Southern Hemisphere; so people in Australia might be more familiar with these stars than the people in New Hampshire, where they are not visible in the night sky.

    But an even better reason as to why the leader of the extraterrestrials might be puzzled at Betty's lack of knowledge of the stars on his sky map is very evident - his puzzlement arose when she did not recognize Alpha Centauri, some 4.37 light years distant, or even worse Proxima Centauri, only 4.245 light years distant. Surely a civilization that was putting their citizens on the Moon and exploring Mars would have knowledge of their nearest stars! The trading areas that are outlined on the alien map are associated with stars that represent our nearest neighbors, so to speak. I looked for a match to the extraterrestrial star map. And I found one in the constellation of Centaurus.

    If we need yet another explanation for the leader's astonishment at Mrs. Hill's ignorance of the stars depicted, perhaps it lies in the fact that two of the stars, and thereby two of their established trade routes as depicted on his maps, are included in our Crux Constellation - more popularly known by the more familiar name of "Southern Cross". He learns that Betty and Barney Hill are devout Christians, and yet they don't recognize the Cross formation in our own Southern skies?

    Miss Fish was very intelligent and industrious in examining those stars that were deemed to have characteristics that could support life such as that found on Earth. I have not restricted myself in this fashion, since I have no idea what conditions each of the various extraterrestrial groups would need to survive and flourish.

    By the way, the comments or opinions pages of Astronomy carried arguments for and against Fish's star map. Notable was an argument made by Carl Sagan and Steven Soter, arguing that the "star map" was little more than a random alignment of chance points. In an episode of "Cosmos" in 1980, Sagan demonstrated that without the lines drawn in the maps, the Hill map bore no resemblance to the real-life map. No, it didn't represent Zeta Reticuli too closely in the end, but that's mainly because it was not meant to!

    And how Sagan can claim, with authority, that "without the lines drawn on the map it bears no resemblance" with a straight face? Because the lines and trade routes outlined are the whole point of the alien map! The leader was sharing the information with Betty that their group had already developed trade deals with our closest stars, and explored various others, and he was therefore attempting to leave an impression of his openness, exhibited in his willingness to share information with Betty. Consider if Sagan himself were an astronaut on a deep-space mission. Do you believe that he would share information about trade routes and explored versus unexplored areas with an extraterrestrial he might come across?

    The Maps

    Here is the map originally drawn by Betty Hill in 1964-5. No star names are provided, the Sun is not listed, no identifying mark of any kind other than the patterns she observed. Because she had no idea of what the map represented.

    https://www.paleoaliens.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/BETTY_HILL_STAR_MAP.png

    And here is the map that I created, and I suggest that it provides a better match to the one Betty drew, than others which have been proposed.

    https://www.paleoaliens.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/MY_SUGGESTION.png.jpg

    Another Southern Hemisphere Constellation - Centaurus, which includes Alpha Centauri and Proxima Centauri, among others, along with parts of the Crux and Hydra Constellations nearby, conform to her 12 points. I have placed numbers next to the stars indicated that match Betty's map. Numbers 1 and 2 are Alpha Centauri and Hadar, the very bright stars that seem to be indicated by the much larger stars on Betty's map.



    You will notice that my provided map has numbers near the corresponding stars that match what Betty Hill drew out. Here are the individual stars depicted near those numbers:

    1. Rigil Kentaurus or Tolimon, aka Alpha Centauri
    2. Hadar, aka Beta Centauri
    3. Acrux, the southernmost star in the nearby Crux (Southern Star) Constellation

    4. Pi Centauri
    5. Gamma Crucis aka Gacrux, northernmost star in Southern Cross (Crux constellation).
    6. Ma Wei or Delta Centauri
    7. Beta Hydrae, in Hydra (Sea Serpent) Constellation.
    8. Xi Hydraw, in Hydra Constellation.
    9. Epsilon Centauri
    10. Ke Kwan
    11. Nu Centauri
    12. This is the distinctive three star pattern identified by Betty as being inside the triangle portion on the upper part of her map These are found in the Centaurus constellation in the same position that she drew them. They have not yet been named on most star maps but they are shown as a part of the Centaurus constellation of stars. Since these are not included on the maps suggested by other authors, theirs fail the test of conformity in that area.By the way, the extraterrestrials wish to offer their sincere apologies for the fact that their own star map spans not one but three of our known constellations (Centaurus, Crux and Hydra) and that their trade route patterns do not follow the lines that make up the "various mythical beast" patterns that the ancient and primitive people on Earth saw in their stars, many thousands of years ago... Just Kidding.

    In closing I would like to mention another important point. We can not now see the Southern Hemisphere constellations such as Centaurus, Crux and Hydra, that the people south of the equator can. But that was not always the case. While Centaurus now has a high southern latitude, at the dawn of civilization it was an equatorial constellation

    The earliest Greek writers included Centaurus in their maps and even earlier the Babylonians knew that group of stars quite well. Due to the wobbling of the Earth on its axis, its procession through the Universe means that during certain periods of history certain stars and constellations will appear to "move" in relation to viewers on Earth. Stars that we now see only in the southern Hemisphere were visible in the North Hemisphere in ancient times. (BC).

    The figure of Centaurus can be traced back to a Babylonian constellation known as the Bison-man (MUL.GUD.ALIM). This being was depicted in two major forms: firstly, as a 4-legged bison with a human head, and secondly, as a being with a man's head and torso attached to the rear legs and tail of a bull or It has been closely associated with the Sun god Utu-Shamash from very early times. Perhaps you have seen the many depictions of ancient sky gods, some of whom have this same combination of attributes - a man's head on a 4-legged bison or bull.

    In the Sumerian/Babylonian languages:
    Mul = star, to shine, to radiate light
    Gud = bull, ox, cattle
    Alim = a Bison, heavy, important.

    And the ancient Arabic astronomers knew Alpha Centauri, the third brightest naked-eye star in the entire sky, as Al Riji al Kentauris, which translates to "the Centaur's foot"”, and this gives us the Latinized name Rigel Kentaurus.

    I hope that you have enjoyed this report, and I would like to assure you that I am always open for questions, comments or skeptical insults. Thank You.
     
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  2. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Very cool. Been a while but as I remember it Dr. Simon was using hypnosis to treat what we now call PTSD. I've heard some of the (poor) audio recordings of those sessions and Barney clearly has had the snot scared out of him and maybe that's why the technique was used. Point is, he wasn't doing that for the same reason as say, David Jacobs.

    Also, wasn't that star map recently proven to be something less than completely accurate?
     
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  3. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    The only reason that I did not dig deep into their story, is because so very many Intelligence agents have their prints on it that these poor people were worked over like criminals and it's extremely time consuming to separate the good info from the fake.

    My wife suffers from PTSD, from incidents in her childhood. It only came out three years ago, and with meds and my care she is much better now. But it's not a joke - and the pressure they applied along with the actual event were very severe to someone in her and his condition. They have proven that the Fish map is wrong, because no alien life supporting planets could be nearby. So, on the one hand they tell us there are no aliens. On the other hand, they pretend to be experts on which planets would suit aliens. It never ends.

    No, I take that back. It will be ending very soon - I am working as fast as I can on publishing. David Jacobs - I've read everything he wrote. I really thought he was the real deal. Now I am certain that he is not. And he didn't change at the end, like so many others - his was molded by Intelligence agents from the start. I did always wonder how they could keep him on staff as a Historian, even with tenure, if he has it. And recently the pieces fell into place. Thanks for your comments PigFarmer.
    PS - it makes common sense that aliens who had trade routes including some of our nearest stars would also land to take a look at Earth. They seem not to be connected with the others that have been and are here. And they also seem like the type we should get to know better.
     
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  4. Sheltie

    Sheltie good to the last drop

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    The Betty Hill star map has never been proven to be fake. The problem is that it's very open for interpretation. The argument against it is that if you have a bunch of dots on a piece of paper and you look hard enough, eventually, with a little imagination, you can find a map that seems to match it.

    The Hill Case has always been one of my favorites. The movie about it was probably what really sparked my interest in UFOs and aliens.

    What I find strange is that, in one of her last interviews, Betty Hill changed her story and claimed that the encounter was not an abduction but instead a friendly meeting.
     
  5. Todd Feinman

    Todd Feinman Algorithmic, Asymmetric, long-term alien contact.

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    I believe this UFO photographed in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, July 3, 1967
    is the Hill's UFO. Notice the "bat wings" extended on either side. probable double row of black windows:


    Calgary UFO Photo
    The second case, again made in 1967, revolves around a famous Canadian photograph taken of a UFO near Calgary. It tells the story of Warren Smith who was out for a hike near Nanton, Alberta.

    “A UFO suddenly appeared outside of an area of trees a few hundred feet above the observers,” reads the briefing which goes on to explain how Smith was able to snap two photos of the objects. Smith made prints of these shots, which were then sent to the DND. “The prints were subjected to a detailed analysis by the Photo Intelligence Interpretation Centre. The Centre concluded its investigation by stating, assuming the photos by Mr Smith to be genuine, the UFO fit the description of the objects by Mr Smith.”
    Here is the image:
    http://www.exmfpropulsions.com/New_...lsion/UFOs_Science/Jacinto_files/image014.jpg
    Can be seen here too:
    UFO Photos: 1960s- UFO Evidence
    Here is the whole photo:
    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/775182154590387075/
     
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  6. SOUL-DRIFTER

    SOUL-DRIFTER Life Long Researcher

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    Problem with the map is...perspective.
    From what perspective was it made?
    While I do believe she was shown a map, we are merely guessing as to what stars and where they are shown from. Just because they happen to align up with familiar stars does not automatically mean those are the stars the map depicted...if those visitors are even from our universe/dimension at all.
     
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  7. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    Yes, Betty and Barney were under extreme pressure from the very first. I think they finally managed to confuse her, but she always stuck to her description of the aliens,and at the end, perhaps after even further encounters with them, she got over her terror and began to appreciate them.
    Yes, the map could match many systems. But here's the kicker - the three stars in the center of the triangle to the left - those can not be matched on any map that has been proposed to date, other than mine. And the fact that the powers that be have always pointed us towards systems that are 20,000 light years away, and would freak out over one so close - our nearest neighbor, explains why they put so much pressure on Betty. Thanks for your comment - it got me thinking.
     
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  8. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    YES! I believe you are correct. I do translations of many old languages - it's what I do. One day a few years ago the Taino peoples from the islands near where Columbus landed, asked me to interpret some symbols that they had, and I did so. I was able to link i to an ancient form of a pre-Columbian language from Columbia and Venezuela. They have kept in touch with me over the years. Two years ago the group migrated to Canada. They had relatives there, proven by DNA and they now live there. They tell me that northern Canada is nearly overrun with UFOs and Black Helicopters (which are not Canadian) as well. Unmarked black helicopters.
    Why the world does not realize that Canada receives more than its share of UFOs is beyond me. But I do know that the Taino, while a brave people, are now somewhat scared.
     
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  9. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    You are correct. I published this here for my friends and did not include it in the book that I am working on for two reasons. First because I am not an astronomer, and do not wish to be torn apart by them, and have the rest of my work painted with the same brush. But someone has to put forth another notion besides the prevailing one - three teams of "scientists' or students of science, have put forth their ideas, all of which make no sense. And second because, while I believe my work to be true, there are some difficulties by way of memories, hypnotic suggestions, implanted ideas, PTSD, and other factors, that make Betty's map an easy target.
    I did work on this for awhile, so rather than waste that time I put it up for your consideration.
    I agree with you Soul-Drifter, that this could be many things, including something beyond my abilities.
     
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  10. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    It wasn't really Betty's map was it? Marjorie Fish made it based on her description.
     
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  11. Sheltie

    Sheltie good to the last drop

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    As I recall, she claimed one of the crew members told her one of the reasons Earth is so frequently visited by aliens is because it's on a major interplanetary trade route. I was always left with the impression that they were more like interplanetary merchants than scientists. In this respect Earth may be a way station in the middle of a long journey instead of a destination.
     
  12. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    In the original book it includes Betty's hand-drawn recollection of the map. It is different from the one Fish suggested - I included Betty's image as my top one in the post above - I got it from the book.
     
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  13. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    What product could they obtain on Earth that would have a value on the intergalactic market? Worth the cost of their energy in obtaining it? Nearly all of the minerals we have are available elsewhere. But human blood, DNA, body parts - untainted by thousands of years of space travels and the changes arising from alien planetary conditions - might be a market for those.
     
  14. Jack Frostman

    Jack Frostman Adept

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    Here is an extensive research piece Charlie Wiser wrote about Betty and Barney. It's in multiple sections as per the index at the top.

    Well worth a read

    Betty & Barney Hill
     
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  15. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    We'll never know what happened because we weren't there and can only speculate. But I always like the story and it certainly is one of those iconic cases in ufology.

    Here's another piece written by who knows who for who knows what but seems cogent enough. You know, if some guy in the internet says it clearly it's true. But to be fair it speaks to the personalities at work well enough and echoes similar sentiment I've heard over the years: The Long Strange Interrupted Journey of Betty and Barney Hill – Wiz-O-Matic

    As I've been saying, context is very important. An historian would tell you that when writing non-fiction interpretations of real events. Careful with that cherry picker.

    I have a copy of Interrupted Journey sitting ten feet away and remember Betty's description of the beings and by her own admission, the made-for-tv show with James Earl Jones presented something very different - made for dramatic presentation. I'm 57 years old and my memories of the case come from the tv show, not the book. Scared the **** out of me as a kid. Not long after when I saw an advertising blimp that appeared suddenly at close range under unusual circumstances that's straight where my imagination took me, assisted by my older brother who knew better at the time but deliberately screwed with my head and had me terrified in my bed at night for fear of those things coming for me.

    Since that tv show Communion served to reinforce the alien grey image. Pop culture references most likely have a lot to do with abductee descriptions. Prior to those two things there were Nordics, what have you, not greys. Areas like South America that have had less cultural exposure to the things I just mentioned report hairy dwarves and all sorts of strange stuff.

    Dr. Simon's direct, first person contemporary professional involvement came to a conclusion that speaks to extreme personalities. We're a bit off base to second guess him or dismiss those conclusions without some damned convincing evidence, which is sadly lacking. That's the context that gets brushed aside by folks like Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Marden for their own purposes i.e celebrity and probably some income. Sort of pisses me off, you know. Abductees are experiencing some real phenomenon that I think is being inflamed by all that and it certainly isn't helping. And then there's poor Barney. Jesus that man had a tough go of things in life and this additional stress probably put him into his grave too early. Maybe he dropped dead because he wanted to.

    A skeptic (yeah, that's me) asks yourself first 'did this even happen' and put into proper context it's easy to have doubt. It doesn't mean I don't believe in alien contact or abductions, it means I am wary of Jimmy Durante bearing gifts.
     
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  16. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    That's why, as I mentioned I did not wish to dive into the rabbit hole any further. I'm like a barracuda - if I see something shiny I go after it - and it usually means that one or more of my books gets delayed in publication. I've managed to put the ship back on track and thus I only posted the barest snippets above - that took me a day to complete, and not the fifty or more pages that Barney and Betty deserve in my opinion. Thanks for the links I will check them out. I believe that there was an original story, modifications to that story, input from outsiders that were not there, disinformation, slants and shutes - all were part of the later story. I have the Interrupted Journey in front of me as well - and I can feel their pain of having to relate this, and yet not really understanding what it was.
     
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  17. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    Yes, it is worth a read, but mainly for another reason. It proves my suspicions that, as others agree, Stanton Friedman is a tool of the Intelligence agencies. Because he also wrote a book. He also interviewed Betty. He was supposedly a physicist, and yet, he never asked to examine her clothing? His co-author was a Ufologist. She didn't think of testing it either?
    Main stream scientists and investigators - nobody tested it until decades later? Sure.
     
  18. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Nope. He had a Master's in Nuclear Engineering. Worked on several government contracts including reactor powered aircraft. I recently found out what the purpose was behind that particularly interesting historical tidbit an the reality of it would make Dr.Strangelove blanche.

    By his own admission Stanton got into speaking about UFOs because he was good at it and attracted a following and it paid better than uprooting and moving to follow one government contract after another.

    How do intelligence agencies figure into this? When did they become involved with the Hills ?
     
  19. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    You know, I'm 69, and what I thought of the Hill incident when I was younger is exactly nothing. I don't recall hearing about it, but if I did I had a six year hitch in the Navy during Dam to keep me busy, and I was not a believer in UFO nonsense in any event. I have learned, however, that people will nearly always do something that is not smart, not expected, not always in their best interest, not good in the long run, and often downright stupid. Betty's idea of wanting to see a UFO - yes. But is that any different than tens of thousands of other suckers in her time period? Especially after the word saucers became popular and the first books came out.
    Perhaps the aliens look for people who desire them ? Perhaps they have a way of checking personalities prior to abduction? I don't know and really I don't think about it very much. The fact that Betty started talking about it at Church is unusual, because according to many reports that I have read "Christians" don't get abducted if they utter the name of the Lord. Right. So perhaps in the confusion she forgot that part.
    One thing that I am fairly sure of, however, is that this is not a disinformation act of the Intelligence groups. First, because she portrays them as being friendly to the point of sharing information about them and even allowing her to look at records and maps. And second, because the map clearly points to Alpha Centauri. And the spooks have a lot of money invested in making us believe that the majority of them are from Orion (far distant), Sirius (ditto), Zeta Reticuli (47 ly compared to 4.3), and a myriad of other star systems - and probably pooped when they saw the map. And they have spent far too much time making her look like a cook. Hey, some writers work for money - they write what you suggest. I don't but there are a majority that would.
    On the other hand, is it some goofy play that she put on out of nothing? Perhaps. And you know, with her husband in the
    postal service - we know that Men In Black work there when they retire (just kidding but see how far we could go with this?).
     
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  20. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    Now that you mention it, I did hear somewhere that he was an engineer and not a Dr. But that's added proof that he worked with NSA or AFOSI, because they never shoved that in his face like they usually do when a writer doesn't have the creds. Is there anything that you can share about the Dr. Stangelove aircraft part of the story?

    Well, intelligence agencies, let's see. She called an Air Base. They sent someone, Then another officer, a Major I believe showed up later. Then Friedman, who has been shown to report to some agency - but when the CIA was claimed he denied it, so probably NSA. . We know NICAP is aligned with the CIA since their first director was also the head of the CIA. It has their tracks all over it. As I said I haven't and won't be writing a story on the Hill's - and only the map, and only online. But I recall others as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021

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