Time As The 4th Dimension.

Discussion in 'Science, Tech, & Space Exploration' started by Shadowprophet, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    We dont see a lot of science discussions these days, For a multitude of reasons, It's the changing times I guess, I could pine on about how people just don't seem to care as much about science, But truly, People have more important things to worry about right now than extra-dimensional spaces.

    That said, there are and always have been people who at the end of the day will wonder how the universe works even in times like these. . I think It was Delmore Schwartz that said, Time is a fire in which all man burns. What a hose nozzle that guy was,, Sure it sounds poetic but it's just dumb, It displays a huge lack of understanding of what Time really is. it would be like someone writing a number one song about how dumb they were, Then getting caught lip-syncing to on Saturday night live. Like dumb to the 4th power kinda stuff. Anyway, I'm not a Delmore Schwartz fan.

    I suppose to understand time, The Best jumping on point is to consider dimensional Theory.
    The Empirically proven Dimensions Are Height, Width, Depth, And Time. And yes. Time is empirically proven because. Pause for a moment, Now, Disprove time is a thing.. Okay??, Moving on.

    So when we think about time, We tend to think, At least I used to tend to think of it as past and present or even in lines, like timelines. But, The truth is, all of the time Exists as a whole, Past present, and future as one dimension, The 4th dimension, And It has a horizon, SO, Yeah... SO, If you think of time, Like a ball or a sphere, It has a perceivable horizon we experience not the whole of the 4th dimension, But just a location upon its surface so as we move through time, We experience it not as it's whole, But as if we are traveling along its surface, Much as we do the Earths surface, For whatever reason we are confined to this perception, Always moving forward as a steady rate. Those people, those places. They all still exist, just over the horizon, Beyond perception, Just how we remember them.

    Idk, I've studied physics and really fascinated over time for over twenty years. this is how I've come to understand it.

    What is cognition, What is understanding? the thoughts of one man are the delusions of another I guess.
     
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  2. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Just read Life Before Life by Dr. Jim Tucker. It's about children who recall previous lives. Some in startling detail.

    He spends some time discussing physics and this makes my skull hurt. Delving into the mysteries of the double slit experiment does not light my pants on fire. Somebody else will have to feed Schrodinger's cat. But I do understand the layman's explanation. Classical physics doesn't answer these questions it only raises them while quantum physics probably has the answers but we're not there yet. It sounds as if we will need to fundamentally rethink How Things Work. We - and classical physics - assume a physical world that consciousness sprang from. Might very well be the other way around, that consciousness creates reality.

    These days you start talking about time and the discussion will come back around to human consciousness. Here's an odd thought at 0424 in the morning: what if there is no such thing as consensus reality? Each representation of consciousness - our basic form - creates it's own. We live in our own bubbles.
     
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  3. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Life before Life. I'm gonna look that up. Early On, I was open to the idea of reincarnation But didn't really want to accept it as something that explicitly happened with everyone after death, But, I've got to say, There are a lot of cases I've heard of about the subject, It transcends cultures and nations and even time periods. That's not to even mention some of the stories I've heard "if true" have children recalling their entire past lives and looking up old relatives. I've come to believe Reincarnation May be something of a choice. Like a do-over for some people.
     
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  4. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Not to hijack but this has both of his books in it. A bit dry but he is doing a serious study and takes great pains to explain himself.
    upload_2022-1-21_7-8-55.jpeg
     
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  5. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    The Industrial Revolution changed the way we traditionally looked at time. Now we have electric lighting, people work away from home in factories at all hours and in general, we have a stick up our ass in how we perceive it. You think about it, we take accurate timekeeping entirely for granted. At one time a decent sized town might afford the luxury of a clock in one of it's public buildings. Railroads came up with some sort of synchronization (I think) involving telegraph lines. I have my grandfather's Bulova Accutron M68 that's 'railroad approved' because accurate timekeeping just wasn't what we think of now and that was 1968.

    I used to break up my day into 15 minute blocks and have to charge my time to various places. Even now I punch a clock and am always acutely aware of exactly what time it is. If I lived three hundred or three thousand years ago maybe a sun dial. I'd be more concerned with a calendar. Thirty thousand years ago I wonder how we felt about it. certainly we were a bit more in tune with nature. Maybe that's why we look at Native Americans, Australian Aborigines etc as so much more spiritual, possibly imbued with some ancient knowledge or fantastic ability.

    Time is a construct of our own making; what we think of as time is really timekeeping. What it actually IS I can't quite get my head around, it's our way of making a ruler to measure it with for our own purposes. I'm probably saying this badly, but as an example we use the term 'honor' as a descriptive and it has meaning to us - but can you quantify it? Very slippery all that.
     
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  6. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    On-time, in a lot of philosophical concepts, we can say, That this measurement or that measurement is a concept holding different values to those who perceive it, Yet, Time in itself, When you consider all the "different concepts" that we attribute time to, Becomes more than a concept, It's almost a blanket term for many aspects. Life and death, for instance, Weather we choose or construct Life and death, Those aspects occur with or without us, Entropy, the half-life, Weirdly, I can't prove that entropy occurs when we aren't observing it, Because of how weird the observer effect is. But, The cosmos continues its "complications" <---- Clock and gearwork term Best apples here ... So, Yeah. Much of how we use the Term Time, IS a construct we created, But to trim time down to being a construct we created in some ways negates, in many ways, Time is a concept that created us, Since the beginning, even a primal fear of night and darkness haunt the subconscious mind. "Man creating art creating man?" "a Self-fulfilling prophecy" Perhaps, Cause and effect? One way to consider this is, Human hubris, A construct of man,, Who constructed man? We can assume credit for our understanding of concepts, But when it comes to the concepts themselves, Did we create them or just come to understand that they were already there as part of the greater "ununderstood"?
     
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  7. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

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  8. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    The first 4 are mostly empirical, After that, it becomes a matter of which model of reality you are placing your bets upon. M theory String theory Relativity and Quantum vary widely on the number and function of higher dimensions.
    I'll have a lot more to discuss on this when I return. I had been feeling kinda sick so I took a Covid test. It came back positive. :) I'm going to rest. :Sleep: Just so people know for statistics and such,, I was fully vaxxed to boot....
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2022
  9. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Yes, that's damned weird. If you could reach out and snatch an electron in your hand you would be able to observe it but in doing so would change it's nature. You would be pinning a bug to a display not watching it buzz around and never ever fly back out through the window it came in through. If a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound? In fact, lacking an observer the tree hasn't done anything; it exists in a cloud of probability.

    Does the Pope **** in the woods? Again, unless we see it it exists only in probability. Personally, I suspect it's true.

    I guess when we are talking about the passage of time more often than not it is our perception of it. Time is what it is to us because we are observing it. Maybe the artificial construct we use for our own comprehension changes some aspect of what it really is. The real question is about Time the noun not Time as an adjective.
     
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  10. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Interesting. Not a quick read. I'll have a look
     
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  11. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

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    I had to read it 3 times and take notes before I got it.
    not a quick read at all.
     
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  12. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Physics is something one really has to "want" Anything worth knowing is worth the effort. I had a hell of a time with Gravitational dipoles, I Still don't grasp it. I mean yeah It makes sense, I think I just disagree with the physical model it's based upon... We don't even fully understand Gravity, So, Now, Its got DI and Quantum poles...
     
  13. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Not sure that I need to personally understand the physics in great detail but it would be nice if it suggested a concept easily relatable to the layman. I suspect it's not, at least as it relates to time. Again, our perception of it vs what it actually is sounds like an awfully important distinction.

    You mentioned gravity. Yes, 9.8 meters per second squared, let's see.... divide by one, carry the two, account for wind shear ..... eureka ! That's it! It was gravity to blame for me planting myself face first in the ice yesterday morning. A phenomenon I can readily relate to if not exactly explain it's source. But ask a wee little spider - it probably doesn't notice it quite that much if at all. It's more concerned with friction, wind, static charge maybe. Just means its perception is different, the actual force is still present.
     
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  14. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I'm not really sure what a Layman really is. Everyone excels in different areas. even in the sciences. For me, it all really began clicking together when I was a lot younger, I think It began with just a fascination with space, my earliest memories revolving around physics seem to be Carl Segan.



    But, What really pushed me into science, Was Listening to my Father Tell me Stories about His experiences as a Child. I think I've mentioned this before to some extent, But My Father and Uncle Have an Abduction story. In that story, they both described to me the Craft and its beings and whatever other details I could pry from them over the years.

    So, It's been a lifelong fascination, That began based solely on the Faith that My Father and uncle's story was the truth.
    As far back as memory serves I had always believed, Technology and life forms Beyond imagination were possible, And with people like Carl Segan, Neal Degrasse Tyson, and Stephen Hawking all backing the probability. The mind just ran wild and I couldn't get enough science.

    I still can't.
     
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  15. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Gravity is in itself is a very misunderstood force. So here is a science quickie. A good starting point in physics 101 would be the fundamental forces. The forces interact with the entire cosmos and create reality as we understand it, There are 4 known fundamental forces. Strong Interaction, Weak interaction, Electromagnetism, and Gravity. Each fundamental force, Has a carrier particle. A Boson.. The Strong Force is carried by the Gluon, The electromagnetic force is carried by the photon, and The W and Z bosons are responsible for the weak force, However, As of yet, Gravitys carrier particle has not been discovered, You may, in science fiction have heard of the elusive Graviton, And yes, That is what it would be called, If we had ever discovered it, But alas, No one has ever managed to spot a graviton. Yet. If the standard model of physics that we base our understanding upon. " Relativity" Holds true. Then Gravitons Must exist.

    This is why places like Cern make such a fuss about "Supersymmetry"

    Side link Supersymmetry.

    supersymmetry Would prove gravitons exist. However, It could very well prove Intelligent design was a thing as well, So, It's a subject of Hot debate. Much like Unicorns are at circuses :p
     
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  16. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    One last thing on Gravity. Sorry, It's been so long since I just got to talk about Science, There is this Thing Called Gravitational Time Dilation,

    Time Dilation, Is difficult to explain, But It's a subject matter that isn't just hypothetical, It's proven in experimentation,
    Basically, The More Gravity, The slower That Time seems to pass.

    We Can experiment with this by knowing That Mass Times acceleration equals Gravity. Basically, If you accelerate an object of mass, The Gravity must increase around that object, It's just a physical way that energy seems to exchange properties under the correct conditions. This is basically how particle accelerators work, By accelerating those particles so fast it increases the mass/gravity of the particles and by doing so they collide with one another.

    Anyway, I could go on and on and on, I love me some science. So,, My crazy theory is, Maybe we can't find some of the particles we are looking for because we aren't looking at the correct time... If gravity makes the entropy decrease that much.. Maybe, Some of the particles we can't find, Aren't there because they truly are in that space but they may be displaced or time dilated in the 4th dimension...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
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  17. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

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    as I read the posts I was going to share the idea you already did.
    gravity is a side effect of time running differently above you and below you.
    dimensional theory predicts this and observations match.

    I have also seen gravity described as a very high frequency magnetic only force, but I think this is just the mechanism of the previous idea. here is the website for more info on that one. Vasant Corporation Homepage
     
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  18. Shadowprophet

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    Thank you, Brother, I'm checking into Vasant right now actually, The largest issue facing physics as a whole seems to be tied to understanding gravity, No current Model we have can really accurately explain it. Newtonian physics fell short because Newtonian physics fails to explain so much of the high energy physics we get into after the atomic age, Relativity falls short because our understanding breaks at the center of singularities, Yes, A great many will theorize to you about what happens in the core of a black hole, But, We don't really understand how particles behave inside those black holes at least, Relativity doesn't seem to, And Quantum physics, has it's limits as well, A lot of people don't realize, The very way particles behave change at the subatomic scale, and quantum physics for all its notoriety does a very poor job describing how large macro events behave.

    This Guy here, From PBS space-time, I like this guy, He's not stuffy and full of himself like Degrasse Tyson and Hawking were,, This one is on Quantum Gravity, A subject I'm still STruggling to grasp fully.



    Been watching this guy for ,,,, I don't even know, Countless Years now... :)
     
  19. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    That is a very neat page, Good Read,, A spin-wave, I've wondered if such a technology would really be possible. do these guys have anything working yet or is it all just in the math stages?
     
  20. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

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    not sure.
    I tried to build it, not easy,
    the frequency matched to the resonance of the device is critical.
     
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