UFOs: skeptics, disclosure, and contact

Discussion in 'Alien Hub' started by Skepticide123, Nov 3, 2020.

  1. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    After a decade of arguing with skeptics in online forums and at presentations about the reality of the UFOs after having my own experience in 2010, I have come to a number of conclusions about our species, what "disclosure" would mean for our societies and civilization, and the intelligence and intent behind the UFO phenomenon.

    1. There very likely won't ever be any big announcement or Disclosure or a coming clean by the United States or other superpowers about what it knows about the phenomenon; the government intelligence agencies know that we are not prepared for it. There may be oblique statements or studies but they will never gain traction (see #2). And there is no reason to fess up to what we know when we don't know or trust what other countries know about UFOs. Knowledge is power, and extraordinary knowledge could bestow extraordinary power; no reason to just give that treasure away. Not to mention every country in the world would demand the evidence to be provided as of import to all humans. Not gonna do it..

    2. Many people are afraid of the phenomenon and don't want to know about it. I've encountered this over and over again from family and friends; even many people who believe they are real or have even seen them, don't want to focus on them for too long or research them. Many don't even mention it, because they would be worried about the stigma. UFOs are not a normal part of the comfortable, fake belief in human exceptionalism and normalcy we crave and that our reality and major religions are built upon. And then you have all kinds of folks with Hollywood ideas about aliens or are unable to rid themselves of the humanocentric Star Trek idea of what aliens woule be like --including scientists.

    3. This is as much contact as we can handle. We wouldn't be able to deal with constant alien contact or interaction with their devices as an inferior species. Many would literally lose their minds. Our civilization would be disrupted and destroyed. If there was disclosure from the government, some would (and do, in the government even) believe that UFOS are a demonic manifestation.. Can't you just hear Pat Robertson?
    Others would believe it is a false flag event and wouldn't accept it. Scientists and skeptics wouldn't believe it unless THEY THEMSELVES tested the materials and talked directly with the aliens etc., and that is not going to happen (see #1).

    4. Even if good evidence was provided, it wouldn't be accepted; extraordinarily entrenched paradigms
    require extraordinary evidence. The kind of evidence skeptics would want may not be available; anecdotal accounts from reliable witnesses, mass sightings, hours of viewing through telescopes, gun sights, theodolites and binoculars, interceptions in the air recorded on multiple sensors and with visuals too... The obvious historicity of the phenomenon are not enough for them. In fact, if the visitors are or ever were to become hostile we would be destroyed before the skeptics even believed they were real; just think of all of the encounters or sightings in the past that could have been the delivery of a weapon --we are completely at the mercy of the phenomenon and any hostile visitors in the future, because folks with entrenched paradigms would not accept that something is going on. Think about how controversial global warming is or the existence of the Coronavirus pandemic.. The Greek Dark age, or the intelligence of animals.

    This is why I have given up on skeptics and most scientists...
    The way to maintain contact with a much more primitive species is to initiate a program of contact that doesn't cause a tipping point or hostile response. The way is to insert yourselves slowly into the peripheral vision of the species over time, while demonstrating to the militaries of that species that they are powerless and in the presence of something far more advanced. Eventually over half of the population will know yon are real and some individuals will have had profound knowledge or experiences that will gradually lead to an understanding of the situation. It is how all contact should be done, and very similar to how we interact with animals species or isolated tribes with little contact with the rest of the world. This way a big Independence Day style, disaster is avoided with the apes that can't get along with each other because of the colors of their skins and crazy belief systems --the ones which have destroyed 2/3 of the other animal life on the planet.... Us.
     
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  2. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Take a look at this post from a likely scientist:
    https://forums.forteana.org/index.p...nd-jet-pilot-david-fravor.67799/#post-2007199
    He forgets that the Princeton was witness to the events and had its recordings removed. The objects were also seen by others on the Princeton visually at the same time the recordings were made. These folks assume they know more about the videos than DoD scientists; the DoD stated that the videos are of unknown phenomenon. Same person also stated the video was the only evidence --the Senate Intelligence Committee was briefed with materials about the incident that can't be released because they would "gravely damage national security". And of course just throw out the testimony of the pilots who encountered them! Ad hominem attacks about witness credibility are also common. The good news is that enough will come out in time to really make skeptics look like asses --there's a good chance that the report from the committee will cause long ears to sprout from their heads. If you take a look at the debunking of the Gimbal video --(they say it is a jet engine exhaust) where is the rest of the jet?? They would have seen that too at that distance, and it is (was not) there --that's one of the reasons the DoD said it was real. Frustrating, but all that needs to be done is wait :)
     
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  3. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Skeptical, paradigm-entrenched folks assume a priori that there will ALWAYS be a mundane explanation for every UFO event. The closest approximation of the superficial appearance of an unknown to some specific entry in the catalog of mundane natural phenomena must be the answer! ( It doesn't matter if it only fits one or two characteristics and doesn't fit ten others). Just like Hynek did initially in Michigan, just like Edward Condon did before looking at the evidence.
    If a sighting is SO bizarre --an object seen at close quarters.. crickets.. Or, they are telling tall tales, can't be trusted, witness testimony is always bad, or a person of that occupation is a terrible witness. It is put into the "Can't be explained yet but it is just a matter of time before a mundane explanation is found" basket, no reason to think about it anymore. All photos are hoaxes including McMinnville, Heflin, Trudel, etc.
    And yet what happens when skeptics get an eyeful? Just check the old articles to find out...
     
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  4. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I wasn't a skeptic when I got my eyeful(s) but became one after that. Curious about your 2010 sighting. If you described it got a link? Sorry if I missed it.

    The sheer number of sightings is often used to lend weight to the argument that we are being visited.
    In the most basic terms it means lots of processing is required for relatively little content. That the content is so otentially valuable justifies the effort. But factor in human frailties and it magnifies the task and muddies any result - meaning, fakers, people with agendas, attention seekers and bona fide lunatics screw up the stew. Roswell Slides anyone ?

    I am a skeptic but I believe that we are being visited. My doubt rests on the human side of the issue.

    We've batted opinions about photos back and forth like a ping pong ball here. They are definitely fascinating, fun to examine and research. But they are only worth so much, even some of the film footage that I don't doubt at all. At best you might proselytize someone, ideally in a position to be able to act on it - like a Harry Reid. Once you brush off all the human nonsense, the eyewitness testimony, video and pictures are compelling and as I said, I believe. I just have an industrial grade filter and complete faith in human behavior.
     
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  5. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Absolutely! And that makes the whole situation even more difficult. All kinds of imaginative folks cloud the issue and also make it easy to dismiss by those who would dismiss it for various reaasons.

    Part of the problem is that when you are dealing with an intelligently controlled phenomenon that is more advanced that yourself, widespread evidence may not always be available, and much evidence is anecdotal or circumstantial, but not all. Paradigms don't like to be changed, and for many people the idea of visitation is just too alien to completely believe in without a personal experience, or handling of materials --and even then many would not believe it or believe it to be some kind of demonic construct. The phenomenon easily plays us like a harp; not causing a tipping point, revealing themselves in such a way as to gradually insinuate the idea that they exist, and to keep a certain level of contact, we can deal with in a surveillance situation.
    Here is what happened to me (and I would be happy to take any polygraph test, and many of them if someone wants to pay and try to prove me a liar) :
    https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/my-ufo-experience.65904/#post-1865132
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
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  6. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Interesting. I would have checked the local newspapers for stories, asked the local cops about reports or maybe even the airport. The first two should be easy enough to do. The third I don't really know about except to say that in my area I probably could because it's small and I know someone I could ask if I really needed to. Online we have resources that were science fiction a few years ago. I'd be looking for proximity to military bases, commercial activity, even weather and star charts. Why? Because that's the way I am wired and it's what a skeptic will do anyway of your story if compelling enough. Might as well vet your own sighting - so I say.

    The only assumption I make is that I might not be able to identify what I'm looking at. Don't know what the actual balance is, but for every true believer you probably have a knee-jerk disbeliever. I wouldn't necessarily require physical evidence to believe it's alien visitation. A simple wave hello from the school yard might suffice.

    In my case I saw a truly strange looking thing at very close range - just beyond tree top level. At the time I described it as being similar to a fluorescent tube with a red blinking light on it. Scared the bejeezus out of me - but I was only maybe 12 at the time. I was in the back of my brother's van. He was driving and his girlfriend was up front. I remember a clear look at it and saw rows of lights that reminded me of a toy Goodyear blimp I had. Scared the whole town too. I never found anything conclusive but based on people talking locally, I think one or two newspaper accounts plus the fact that commercial blimp companies operate in the area it was probably a blimp. I thought it was ET. I even spoke to Ted Bloecher at MUFON about it. My older brother used it to fuel my fears and torment me. Years later the knowledge of what it very likely was felt liberating.

    The rest I described here. It's the first stuff I posted here on AE. Have a look Hudson Valley UFO sightings
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
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  7. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Wow! Pigfarmer.. Pretty amazing. I will read completely through that thread ASAP. Have you done a drawing of what you saw? some of those Hudson Valley descriptions remind me of the "airships" from the late 19th century --one was described as like a "large eagle with lights on it"..
     
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  8. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Skeptics will always be there --the Flat Earth Society is still around, unless they can rocket up to the truth and see it for themselves they will NEVER believe something so paradigm challenging. That's why we are completely vulnerable to aliens, and really are just a bunch of arrogant warlike apes, at the end of the day. But they are useful for cutting through all of the misidentification and hoaxes too..
     
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  9. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    From my perspective, looking back across the field to the scientists and skeptics who have chained themselves to the fence, I find them just as interesting now as the UFO phenomenon itself --and I'm only exaggerating a little there, too. It really is fascinating to see how their minds react when confronted with it. It just occurred to me that there is a cartoon to be had there! Ah.. need more time.
    The Structure of Scientific Revolutions - Wikipedia
     
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  10. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    Thanks for sharing your experience and those articles too! I think it depends on the type of encounter one has and the duration. A common kind of encounter is for the objects almost ambush folks --they show up near an individual or small group long enough to be seen and then --they zip off, or drift off quickly sometimes as soon as they know they are being observed, it seems. There is no posing for a selfie with them, and they are in control of the situation. Active camouflage (directional observability) is also an ability, so it's possible to to bend the light and energy around into one direction of visibilty, etc. You can see it in the old sightings before Elizondo and the army began talking about it. You also see trans-medium travel, and programmable matter.
     
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  11. Skepticide123

    Skepticide123 Honorable

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    The Lonely Universe: Is Life on Earth Just a Lucky Fluke?
    "Or — hear Webb out — perhaps they drive UFOs, meaning they are here but not in a form that scientists typically recognize, investigate and take seriously."
    A lot of scientists and skeptics suffer from Modernity Bias; they are sure that aliens would be using technologies that we dream up based on our current understanding of the universe. I've heard scientists in the news and skeptics on forums expecting to find the remains of an alien light sail..
    Scientists contribute to peer-reviewed journals and many would be loathe to directly address the UFO subject publicly. Then you have folks like Neil "Dinner with an alien" deGrasse Tyson; completely unscientific, unwilling to look at the evidence seriously. Other scientists in other fields have assumed that there is no way that the information coming out of the Pentagon is real, and make statements that they are convinced that they will be debunked. Others actually put a timeframe on alien contact with NO evidence; "we will find alien life in 20 years" they say. There are so many fallacies and biases in their arguments that all it does is prove that science might be very useful, but those practicing it are fallible human beings like everyone else. What about simply looking at the evidence and listening to witnesses and coming to conclusions the scientific way? Instead of making grand predictions about the universe based on the current paradigm? The old literature is littered with crazy disproved claims from old paradigms. Time to stop doing that.
     
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  12. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    In my own research I have found that the higher one goes up the chain of command, in either the Military or Government, the more concern there is over UFOs, and the stronger the belief there is in them.

    They claim they are not real and then they put on a big show, but when a certain one occurs, they pull out all stops to be there in force on the scene, and to cover up as needed. They have a knowledge of at least one of the alien languages, as I can prove with four pieces of very clear evidence, and they have been shaping the story as they go merrily on their way towards retirement. They have intentionally changed the symbols reported by observers, on the sides of alien craft, from one theme to another that suits their agenda. I have translated all versions of them and it is very disturbing to find out the lengths they go to in order to keep us ignorant.

    In one example that I recently translated, they changed the actual message, which was "Spearhead or Arrow (or perhaps Recon, all of these are on the table) towards our descendants," which speaks of some aliens being related to us, to three fake examples that translate as: "The total world battle, to make combat, and to plunder or carry off". Rather than simply destroying all reports of the symbols, they substituted others with entirely different messages, perhaps because they know that one day someone will catch on. That day is actually here.

    We really need to consider that, while many of the alien visitors seem to be very cruel in their treatment of humanity, at least one group is not, and that a high percentage of the most brutal abductions, where incredibly cruel things are done, might have very human hands behind it. We are most definitely being played with. I can not find any tiny reason to forgive or understand the act of abduction of humans. No reason fits the excuse pile. So if they are directly involved in that, then that group deserves our wrath.
    However, at least one group seems willing to offer us advise - but nothing further. Not sure if they are scared themselves or why, but advice is it for now. Perhaps we should study this advice further.
     
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