Wars & Rumours of Wars

nivek

As Above So Below
'What was the point?': Taliban move to within 40 miles of Kabul as former British Royal Marine tells of absolute panic in Afghanistan capital and his shame at the West abandoning the country and its people

Speaking from Kabul as refugees from across the country retreated to the city, former British marine Paul Farthing spoke of his despair that Afghanistan is once again on the cusp of being under the Taliban's rule after two decades of British and Western military presence in the country. 'I lost two of my young marines in Helmand back in 2006,' Mr Farthing told Sky News on Friday . 'I truly now want somebody to tell me - what was the point? I have no words to describe the hurt, the upset, the confusion.'

Describing the scenes in Afghanistan's capital, the veteran - who founded Afghan animal welfare charity ' Nowzad ' in the country - said it was 'absolute panic'. His comments came as Kabul looks to be on the brink of being taken by the Taliban. Fears have also been raised of a refugee crisis and a rollback of gains in human rights. Some 400,000 civilians have been forced from their homes since the beginning of the year, 250,000 of them since May, the U.N. says.


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wwkirk

Divine
'What was the point?': Taliban move to within 40 miles of Kabul as former British Royal Marine tells of absolute panic in Afghanistan capital and his shame at the West abandoning the country and its people

Speaking from Kabul as refugees from across the country retreated to the city, former British marine Paul Farthing spoke of his despair that Afghanistan is once again on the cusp of being under the Taliban's rule after two decades of British and Western military presence in the country. 'I lost two of my young marines in Helmand back in 2006,' Mr Farthing told Sky News on Friday . 'I truly now want somebody to tell me - what was the point? I have no words to describe the hurt, the upset, the confusion.'

Describing the scenes in Afghanistan's capital, the veteran - who founded Afghan animal welfare charity ' Nowzad ' in the country - said it was 'absolute panic'. His comments came as Kabul looks to be on the brink of being taken by the Taliban. Fears have also been raised of a refugee crisis and a rollback of gains in human rights. Some 400,000 civilians have been forced from their homes since the beginning of the year, 250,000 of them since May, the U.N. says.


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No doubt a withdrawal from Afghanistan had to happen at some point. But one would imagine there could have been a better way to do it. The again, I'm no military expert.
 

JahaRa

Noble
No doubt a withdrawal from Afghanistan had to happen at some point. But one would imagine there could have been a better way to do it. The again, I'm no military expert.
It would have been better if it had happened before the 1970's. Why were the british there in the 50's? Why was it secret that we (U.S.) were there in the 60's?
 

nivek

As Above So Below
The Taliban's medieval punishment returns: 'Thieves' are tarred and paraded through Herat as jihadis vow to enter Kabul 'like a roaring lion' and British and US troops prepare evacuation plans



Disturbing new images from Taliban-controlled Herat in Afghanistan show men tarred in black with nooses around their necks being dragged through the streets by armed gunmen. With the 20th anniversary to 9/11 looming, Afghanistan risks falling to the Taliban after the militant group seized control of two thirds of the nation following the prolonged withdrawal of US and UK troops.

The insurgent group's commanders have 'vowed to enter Kabul like a roaring lion' as their rampage towards the strategic stronghold, and capital of the country, continues. Boris Johnson said tonight that it is not 'realistic' to expect outside powers to impose a 'combat solution' on Afghanistan as the Taliban's surging advance closes on Kabul and British and US troops are sent into evacuate Westerners.


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nivek

As Above So Below
Mitch McConnell calls for Biden to launch US airstrikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan as warlords move to within SEVEN miles of Kabul and prepare to isolate capital: First of 3,000 troops arrive



Sen. Mitch McConnell has called for US airstrikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan as warlords moved to within seven miles of Kabul and prepare to isolate the capital. 'The Administration should move quickly to hammer Taliban advances with air strikes, provide critical support to the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces (ANDSF) defending the capital and prevent the seemingly imminent fall of the city,' the Senate Minority leader said Friday. 'If they fail to do so, the security threat to the United States will assuredly grow and the humanitarian cost to innocent Afghans will be catastrophic.' The Taliban now controls 19 of Afghanistan's 34 provinces, leaving the Western-backed government in control of a smattering of provinces in the center and east, as well as Kabul and Mazar-e-Sharif. Refugees flooded the capital and US Marines returned to oversee emergency evacuations of the US Embassy.

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wwkirk

Divine
I think Biden's military advisors originally advised him not to depart from Afghanistan and he disregarded their advice...

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As events unfold, I don't think this is the whole story. While they may very well have advised Biden not to pull out, it looks like US military advisors really expected the Afghan government to hold out for a reasonable length of time. Otherwise, they would have pulled US personnel out of Kabul at the outset. Sending troops back immediately makes them look incompetent, goofy even.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
As events unfold, I don't think this is the whole story. While they may very well have advised Biden not to pull out, it looks like US military advisors really expected the Afghan government to hold out for a reasonable length of time. Otherwise, they would have pulled US personnel out of Kabul at the outset. Sending troops back immediately makes them look incompetent, goofy even.

Biden stated in July that the "likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely"...Making that statement it seems he was banking on Afghan forces to prevail and hold the Taliban at bay or he was just talking out his arse...I think they overestimated the abilities of the Afghan forces without the US forces present to back them up...Now the US government look like idiots and have even more blood on their hands...

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nivek

As Above So Below
Sending troops back immediately makes them look incompetent, goofy even.

Definitely a show of incompetence, sending the wrong signals to others like Iran...Its possible Iran sees this Afghan debacle as a huge sign of weakness and an opportunity to push back even more against US interests in the region with less concern of retaliation...

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wwkirk

Divine
The Afghan Military was built over 20 years — How did it collapse so quickly?
This implosion comes despite the United States having poured more than $83 billion in weapons, equipment and training

International New York Times, Kandahar, Aug 14 2021, 08:08 IST updated: Aug 14 2021, 08:22 IST

How the Afghan military came to disintegrate first became apparent not last week but months ago in an accumulation of losses.

The surrenders seem to be happening as fast as the Taliban can travel.

In the past several days, Afghan security forces have collapsed in more than 15 cities under the pressure of a Taliban advance that began in May. On Friday, officials confirmed that those included two of the country’s most important provincial capitals: Kandahar and Herat.

The swift offensive has resulted in mass surrenders, captured helicopters and millions of dollars of US- supplied equipment paraded by the Taliban on grainy cellphone videos. In some cities, heavy fighting had been underway for weeks on their outskirts, but the Taliban ultimately overtook their defensive lines and then walked in with little or no resistance.

This implosion comes despite the United States having poured more than $83 billion in weapons, equipment and training into the country’s security forces over two decades.

Building the Afghan security apparatus was one of the key parts of the Obama administration’s strategy as it sought to find a way to hand over security and leave nearly a decade ago. These efforts produced an army modeled in the image of the US military, an Afghan institution that was supposed to outlast the American war.

But it will likely be gone before the United States is.

While the future of Afghanistan seems more and more uncertain, one thing is becoming exceedingly clear: The United States’ 20- year endeavor to rebuild Afghanistan’s military into a robust and independent fighting force has failed, and that failure is now playing out in real time as the country slips into Taliban control.

How the Afghan military came to disintegrate first became apparent not last week but months ago in an accumulation of losses that started even before President Joe Biden’s announcement that the United States would withdraw by Sept. 11.

It began with individual outposts in rural areas where starving and ammunition- depleted soldiers and police units were surrounded by Taliban fighters and promised safe passage if they surrendered and left behind their equipment, slowly giving the insurgents more and more control of roads, then entire districts. As positions collapsed, the complaint was almost always the same: There was no air support or they had run out of supplies and food.

But even before that, the systemic weaknesses of the Afghan security Forces - which on paper numbered somewhere around 300,000 people, but in recent days have totaled around just one- sixth of that, according to US officials - were apparent. These shortfalls can be traced to numerous issues that sprung from the West’s insistence on building a fully modern military with all the logistical and supply complexities one requires, and which has proved unsustainable without the United States and its NATO allies.

Soldiers and policemen have expressed ever- deeper resentment of the Afghan leadership. Officials often turned a blind eye to what was happening knowing full well that the Afghan forces’ real manpower count was far lower than what was on the books, skewed by corruption and secrecy that they quietly accepted.

And when the Taliban started building momentum after the United States’ announcement of withdrawal, it only increased the belief that fighting in the security forces - fighting for President Ashraf Ghani’s government - wasn’t worth dying for. In interview after interview, soldiers and police officers described moments of despair and feelings of abandonment.

On one front line in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar last week, the Afghan security forces’ seeming inability to fend off the Taliban’s devastating offensive came down to potatoes.

After weeks of fighting, one cardboard box full of slimy potatoes was supposed to pass as a police unit’s daily rations. They hadn’t received anything other than spuds in various forms in several days, and their hunger and fatigue were wearing them down.

“These french fries are not going to hold these front lines!” a police officer yelled, disgusted by the lack of support they were receiving in the country’s second- largest city.

By Thursday, this front line collapsed, and Kandahar was in Taliban control by Friday morning.

Afghan troops were then consolidated to defend Afghanistan’s 34 provincial capitals in recent weeks as the Taliban pivoted from attacking rural areas to targeting cities. But that strategy proved futile as the insurgent fighters overran city after city, capturing around half of Afghanistan’s provincial capitals in a week, and encircling Kabul.

“They’re just trying to finish us off,” said Abdulhai, 45, a police chief who was holding Kandahar’s northern front line last week.

The Afghan security forces have suffered well over 60,000 deaths since 2001. But Abdulhai was not talking about the Taliban, but rather his own government, which he believed was so inept that it had to be part of a broader plan to cede territory to the Taliban.

The months of defeats all seemed to culminate on Wednesday when the entire headquarters of an Afghan army corps - the 217th - fell to the Taliban at the airport of the northern city of Kunduz. The insurgents captured a defunct helicopter gunship. Images of an US- supplied drone seized by the Taliban circulated on the internet along with images of rows of armored vehicles.

Brig. Gen. Abbas Tawakoli, commander of the 217th Afghan Army corps, who was in a nearby province when his base fell, echoed Abdulhai’s sentiments as reasons for his troops’ defeat on the battlefield.

“Unfortunately, knowingly and unknowingly, a number of Parliament members and politicians fanned the flame started by the enemy,” Tawakoli said, just hours after the Taliban had posted videos of their fighters looting the general’s sprawling base.

“No region fell as a result of the war, but as a result of the psychological war,” he said.

That psychological war has played out at varying levels.

Afghan pilots say that their leadership cares more about the state of the aircraft rather than the people flying them: men and at least one woman who are burned out from countless missions of evacuating outposts - often under fire - all while the Taliban carry out a brutal assassination campaign against them.

What remains of the elite commando forces, who are used to hold what ground is still under government control, are shuttled from one province to the next, with no clear objective and very little sleep.

The ethnically aligned militia groups that have risen to prominence as forces capable of reinforcing government lines also have nearly all been overrun.

The second city to fall this week was Sheberghan in Afghanistan’s north, a capital that was supposed to be defended by a formidable force under the command of Marshal Abdul Rashid Dostum, an infamous warlord and a former Afghan vice president who has survived the past 40 years of war by cutting deals and switching sides.

On Friday, another warlord, Mohammad Ismail Khan, a prominent Afghan warlord and former governor, who had resisted Taliban attacks in western Afghanistan for weeks and rallied many to his cause to push back the insurgent offensive, surrendered to the insurgents.

“We are drowning in corruption,” said Abdul Haleem, 38, a police officer on the Kandahar front line earlier this month. His special operations unit was at half strength - 15 out of 30 people - and several of his comrades who remained on the front were there because their villages had been captured.

“How are we supposed to defeat the Taliban with this amount of ammunition?” he said. The heavy machine gun, for which his unit had very few bullets, broke later that night.

As of Thursday, it was unclear if Haleem was still alive and what remained of his comrades.

As the Taliban carry out an almost uninterrupted sweep of the country, their strength has been in question. Official estimates have long sat at somewhere between 50,000 to 100,000 fighters. Now that number is even murkier as international forces and their intelligence capabilities withdraw.

Some US officials say the Taliban numbers have swelled because of an influx of foreign fighters and an aggressive conscription campaign in captured territory. Other experts say the Taliban have taken a bulk of their strength from Pakistan.

Yet even amid what could be a complete surrender by the Afghan government and its forces, there are troops who are still fighting.

More often than not, as is the case in any conflict since the beginning of time, the soldiers and police are fighting for each other, and for the lower- ranking leaders who inspire them to fight despite what hell lies ahead.

In May, when the Taliban were breaching the outskirts of the southern city of Lashkar Gah, a hodgepodge group of border force soldiers were holding the line. The police officers who were supposed to be defending the area had long surrendered, retreated or had been paid off by the Taliban, as has occurred in many parts of the country over the past year.

Equipped with rifles and machine guns, some dressed in uniforms, others not, the border soldiers beamed when their stubble- bearded captain, Ezzatullah Tofan, arrived at their shell- racked position, a house abandoned during the fighting.

He always comes to the rescue, one soldier said.

Late last month, as the Taliban pushed into Lashkar Gah, the provincial capital of Helmand province, an outpost called their headquarters elsewhere in the city asking for reinforcements. In an audio recording obtained by The New York Times, the senior commander on the other end asked them to stay and fight.

Tofan was bringing reinforcements, he said, and to hold on a little longer. That was around two weeks ago.

By Friday, despite the Afghan military’s tired resistance, repeated flights of reinforcements and even American B- 52 bombers overhead, the city was in the hands of the Taliban.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
They’ll blabber and try to spin this but it’s total incompetence in action. The Taliban are the reality.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
How the Afghan military came to disintegrate first became apparent not last week but months ago in an accumulation of losses that started even before President Joe Biden’s announcement that the United States would withdraw by Sept. 11.

It began with individual outposts in rural areas where starving and ammunition- depleted soldiers and police units were surrounded by Taliban fighters and promised safe passage if they surrendered and left behind their equipment, slowly giving the insurgents more and more control of roads, then entire districts. As positions collapsed, the complaint was almost always the same: There was no air support or they had run out of supplies and food.

So it seems the government knew or had indication that this was likely to happen even though Biden came out in July and said otherwise...I guess he was hoping for the best and pulled us out of the country prematurely trying to score political points, what a backfire...

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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Well, this is going splendidly. Our southern border is all squared away in good order now and that extreme competence in management has blanketed an entire country in it's loving embrace. Nicely done. What's next, a continent?

Friend of mine spent nine years in Afghanistan as a contractor, just retired and came home. He had been turning the screws on me to take his gig although it wouldn't have been in that country - now for different reasons. He doesn't seem overly surprised at all by the behavior of the Afghan forces. Real world input there, not a news story. What a total clusterfuck.

** on that note, in an extremely rare moment of lucidity my 91 y/o mother-in-law piped up and said she never heard the term 'clusterfuck' before, so I explained it and the term 'circle jerk' and she laughed ....... **
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Taliban enter Kabul and demand SURRENDER: War chiefs head to presidential palace to negotiate 'transfer of power' as fighters course into Afghan capital

Screenshot_20210815-055518.jpg

The key eastern city Jalalabad fell under Taliban control (right) without a fight early Sunday morning when the governor surrendered. This leaves the capital Kabul as the only remaining major Afghan city still under government control (inset map showing control of the country). Taliban insurgents have captured the northern stronghold of Mazar-i-Sharif, the second-largest city Kandahar and third-largest city Herat all within the last 48 hours and are now closing in on Kabul.

Americans at the US Embassy in Kabul are now being evacuated from the capital with Joe Biden increasing the number of troops to 5,000 to help with the process (top left people are seen evacuating Kabul). Meanwhile, thousands of locals have fled to Kabul to try to escape the Taliban as they have taken control of their home provinces. This has pushed the city's four million population higher and forced refugees to set up home in makeshift camps around the city (bottom left).


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nivek

As Above So Below
Escape from Kabul: Diplomats flee US Embassy in Chinook helicopters after setting documents on fire as Taliban fighters storm Afghan capital - in stark echo of the Fall of Saigon

Screenshot_20210815-120212.jpg

In a scene mirroring that of Saigon at the end of the Vietnam war (pictured bottom left), a US Air Force helicopter was seen taking off from the US Embassy (pictured) earlier today. The Chinook helicopter was seen taking to the skies above the city - just like in 1975 when a US Marine helicopter was seen evacuating embassy staff from Vietnamese capital. Today, smoke was also seen rising from near to the US embassy (pictured bottom right) earlier today as security staff work to burn any important documents, including CIA information, or material that could be used 'in propaganda efforts'.

The US flag is soon expected to be lowered, signalling the official closure of the embassy. It comes as the US steps up its evacuation of Kabul with Taliban fighters quickly moving in 'from all sides'. Shots were heard on the outskirts of the capital earlier today, much earlier than first anticipated, before fighters poured into the city. US Intelligence officials had expected Kabul to hold out for three months, while UK ministers were hoping they had until the end of the month. Leaders of the extremist group have today demanded the Afghan government surrender the city to them in a bid to avoid bloodshed - adding the chilling warning 'we've not declared a ceasefire'.

As many as 10,000 US citizens are being evacuated from the city. Around 3,000 US troops are being sent to aid the mission. Meanwhile, Special Forces units are joining 600 British troops from the 16 Air Assault Brigade, including 150 Paratroopers, while RAF planes are being scrambled from around the world, to airlift more than 500 British Government employees out of Kabul.

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nivek

As Above So Below
Fleeing Americans in Afghanistan told to shelter in place amid reports Kabul airport is 'taking fire'

The U.S. embassy issued new guidance for American citizens attempting to flee the country as the Taliban take control of the government.

Previously, nationals were told to head to the Kabul airport, but the embassy advised that the airport was now "taking fire," and the security situation has changed. "We are instructing U.S. citizens to shelter in place," a statement from the embassy read.

The embassy also posted a Repatriation Assistance Request form and advised U.S. citizens to not call the embassy for updates or details on flights.

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nivek

As Above So Below
Sending troops back immediately makes them look incompetent, goofy even.

Increasing the number of troops by 2000 doesn't help shave off any appearance of incompetence, now with the airport under fire we may see Aerican hostages being taken before they all can escape...Biden has no one he can blame for this debacle, he's trying to blame Trump but it falls I'm deaf ears, Biden owns this...And where is he, on vacation while Afghanistan burns because of his incompetence...

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dr wu

Noble
This has been going on for 20 years since the Taliban backed Bin Laden....Vietnam went on for 20 years ....and it fell..much the same way. Not sure why this surpised anyone nor that the end gets messy. This is not Biden's fault nor Trump's fault. It's the fault of western countries who think they can force their brand of 'democracy' and 'freedom' on other people. They are not us.
It's terrible that it ended this way but we went in to stop the terrorism from the Taliban from getting again to America not to help create another country. Is it our job to be 'world protector' and overlay our ideas on everyone else.? How has that worked out in the past?
o_O
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
This is not Biden's fault nor Trump's fault

I agree but from what you've written suspect that if this train wreck occurred on DT's watch you might be expressing that differently. Whatever our reasons for being there, humanitarian concerns were probably not at the top of the list. More likely because we couldn't leave easily for reasons just like what we are seeing. But this specific situation appears to have been avoidable and is totally owned by the current administration - Saigon with a dash of Benghazi sauce.

Whatever happened to 'the buck stops here' ? The commanding officer of anything is supposed to take charge and responsibility, the one that whines and points his or her finger elsewhere loses credibility and respect. I'd say that if DT did this or anyone else.
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Yeah, it was a deadline you got handed that caused this and you couldn't possibly have done anything in the past several months to avoid something like this. Having those 6000 troops there in place to begin with might have made a good start of it. Why not? You can have them loitering in Washington DC to prevent a bullshit 'insurrection' but not in an actual one.

Just watching people clinging to the sides of US Air Force transports and falling off as they roll away. There's a visual that isn't going to go away any time soon.
 
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