Where do you stand on the UFO enigma?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by nivek, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    There are some things that don't have a ready explanation. Now, just because they don't appear to be a conventional phenomenon doesn't mean that they are manned by LGM.

    If something is a UFO that just means it is unidentified, not that it is an AFO (Alien Flying Object).

    If you tracked an object from deep space (preferably very deep space) to the earth, that is a different story.
     
  2. notdej

    notdej Honorable

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    In what way is this relevant to my reply to S-D? You've lost me

    Edit to apologies:

    aimed at you CB, sorry I didn't quote your post..
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  3. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    You can aim at me even if you don't quote my post.

    At least you haven't engaged in personal attacks, but those are ok too.

    I'm not a believer. However, there are some things that don't have a ready explanation. Unless you dissect a UFO pilot, or prove the origin of a UFO, you can't prove they are aliens. That is just speculation.

    But I wouldn't be surprised if there are aliens.
     
  4. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    UFO and Alien Ativity seems to have fallen off in recent years....

    I dont blame them. Who would want to visit this planet with the threats of Nuclear threats, not to mention Earthquakes, Floods, Massive Storms, And Yellowstone could Super Blow any time now....

    On the other hand, what planet would not suffer from most of these issues?
     
  5. Apollo

    Apollo Adept

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    I believe it's possible life exists outside our solar system. Intelligent life, I don't know. Are they capable of visiting us? Again I don't know, but nothing has convinced me so far.

    I do believe in the UFO phenomena on some level. I'm just not not sure they are craft with pilots.

    Speaking for myself, I saw something anomalous once. But it was more in line with the Marfa or Hessdalen lights.
     
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  6. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    I define myself as a Skeptical Believer and see no problem with the definition.
    I believe we are in a very few cases being visited by creatures from another world. I emphasize a very few. However I approach every sighting as a Skeptic, in an effort to eliminate as many earthy explanations as possible.
    I hate nothing more than when someone sees a light and without a second though assumes it is ET.
    So approaching everything as a skeptic, removes that possibility.
    Hopefully all I have left then is a half plausible UFO sighting that just might be ET.
     
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  7. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    This fits in here regarding whether or not 'aliens' have been here or might come here....orignally proposed by the famous physicist Enrico Fermi.
    Fermi paradox - Wikipedia
    "
    The Fermi paradox or Fermi's paradox, named after physicist Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence and high probability estimates[1] for the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations.[2] The basic points of the argument, made by physicists Enrico Fermi (1901–1954) and Michael H. Hart (born 1932), are:

    • There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are similar to the Sun,[3][4] many of which are billions of years older than Earth.[5][6]
    • With high probability, some of these stars will have Earth-like planets,[7][8] and if the Earth is typical, some might develop intelligent life.
    • Some of these civilizations might develop interstellar travel, a step the Earth is investigating now.
    • Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in a few million years.[9]
    According to this line of reasoning, the Earth should have already been visited by extraterrestrial aliens. In an informal conversation, Fermi noted no convincing evidence of this, leading him to ask, "Where is everybody?"[10][11] There have been many attempts to explain the Fermi paradox,[12][13] primarily either suggesting that intelligent extraterrestrial life is extremely rare or proposing reasons that such civilizations have not contacted or visited Earth."
     
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  8. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    The best two argument I have against this is one I put to a South African Workmate.
    I did the Math accurately at the time but no longer have it so estimates will have to do.
    I scaled up the age of the universe since the big bang and the distance light travels in that roughly 13.5 Billion years so that the beginning was our home town in Victoria Australia, and the end was in Johannesburg in Africa
    I then worked out how far from home our first radio signal is. It was something like 1/20th of a mm I then said OK lets pretend we have been sending radio signals now for 1000 years. it was something like 1.2 mm
    I then said so OK we are listening for chunks of radio signals from all different directions from here to Africa, in blocks of a mm or two at best. That happen to be landing on earth right now, and we have to be looking in the exact right direction with our radio telescopes at the exact right time. He then said, oh, OK i get it. Then if thats the case and it is so unlikely we will hear anyone, why bother. I didn't have an answer for that. :)

    The 2nd thing against the Fermi Paradox is this. The question was, where are they? Some would argue all around us. just because they don't say take me to your leader, does not mean there not here alrady. While no 100% proof, lots of evidence and sightings.
     
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  9. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    On a purely scientific and objective level it's hard to refute the logic of the Fermi Paradox...but as you pointed out there's no reason to assume that space traveling aliens would automatically want to have open contact. Depending on their own motivations they might prefer to remain in the background and observe and collect data. Being that they are alien it's certainly possible they might not react the way we might expect them to.
    Still.....one would think based on various extrapolations that there would be plenty of life forms out there and many who might have reached interstellar travel capabilities so the Fermi question is very valid imho.
    The film Arrival with Amy Adams is a good example on a well defined logical level of a species that decided to land and have open contact. Yet nothing like this has happened yet.....I find that a bit troubling.
     
  10. notdej

    notdej Honorable

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    i have a massive problem with that definition... it's the ultimate contradiction!
    therefore you are a believer & not skeptical:Sleep:
     
  11. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    Ummm, no not at all on both cases. I have seen enough wackos over the years ready to believe that someone saw Elvis Getting out of a UFO at 7:11 to know that some people are ready to believe almost anything.
    So I treat every single case I read as a absolute sceptic, and try in my own mind to eliminate all rational explanations. Then, if in my mind all is exhausted. I am happy to say. Well, maybe this one is the real deal, such as Rendelsham. I see no conflict. And since I am betting there is no formal definition yet for a Skeptibeliever in the dictionary, we are free to define it as we will. :)
     
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  12. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    But that's the point isn't it. Arguably this is not true, there is evidence back to the time if the Vedas for contact in one form or another. The problem lies with an individuals willingness to accept that as evidence enough to believe contact has been made several times throughout history...or NOT.
    Some would argue there is plenty of evidence.
     
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  13. notdej

    notdej Honorable

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    oh ok then
     
  14. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    I am a believer, but I dont believe everything.... that would be stupid... So I tend to be skeptic at almost everything UFO and Alien related... but I keep hoping to hear that we have real proof...

    It is actually discouraging to look for proof.... all the testimonies are different.
     
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  15. Dundee

    Dundee Fading day by day.

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    ;)
     
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  16. dr wu

    dr wu Honorable

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    Kchoo.....a skeptic....?
    Did the world just turn upside down?


    ;)
     
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  17. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    :)
    I am a believer... I have seen and interacted with them... I just dont understand how... Or why... Or what they are exactly...

    And I dont understand why testimonies are so different, or why it all seems so unbelievable, or why Arival has not happened, like you mentioned...
     
  18. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    I end up having to swat this bug periodically.

    We still haven't found a planet that humanoid life (that's us) could survive on.

    The red dwarf planets that are "habitable" are so close to the primaries the CMEs would be lethal.

    There are over 3,693 discovered planets and only one is suitable for humanoid life - the first one we discovered.

    The earth would have been back down to bacteria in 30 million years because of a CO2 shortage.

    Out of 4.5 billion years we only had a 30 million year window to become intelligent.

    Further, unless something drastic happens we will go back to being animals because lack of competitive pressure is lowering IQs.

    Currently the count is about 1.3 planets per star.

    There are about 100 billion stars in the galaxy. We'll assume 1:4000 can support life at some point. We'll assume a 30/4,500 window.

    There might be 216 civilizations more or less. In the whole galaxy.

    3.3E+61 volume of Milky way in cubic meters. 9460730000000000 m/ly. Volume of the milky way is 3.897E+13 cubic light years.

    There is one civilization for every 1.799E+11 cubic light years. The average distance between civilizations is 5644 light years.
     
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  19. Castle-Yankee54

    Castle-Yankee54 Celestial

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    :rofl::rofl:
     
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  20. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    I love it here! :Thumbsup:
     

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