Crashed UFOs?

I've been reading this book lately called The Gods of Eden by William Bramley. In it, he makes a good case as to why there hasn't been more recovered crashed UFOs. I'd like to quote an excerpt below to see what you think.

Now keep in mind the FAA statistics on aircraft accidents. I think it's something like one in a million craft have a catastrophic failure, making it one of the safest ways to travel.

Let us assume that the reported alien spacecraft in our skies have precisely the same safety record as American commercial jet aircraft-no better and no worse. Let us guess that 2000 "flying saucers" flights are made over Earth every year. That amounts to 5 and a half flights every day. We will assume that each hypothetical "saucer" flies at a low enough altitude that, if a mishap should occur, the debris would fall to Earth before disintegrating in the atmosphere. Putting all of the above figures together, we discover that a "flying saucer" would crash, or drop a substantial chunk of debris only once every five centuries! That would amount to only 12 crashes since the dawn of mankinds first recorded civilization!

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He goes on to give other figures which would amount to only about one crash every 125 years. Of course all of this is up to debate since we don't exactly know the amount of extraterrestrial craft being flown in our skies, but it definitely gives a picture into why we may not see downed UFOs very often.

A friend of mine would call that "cubic assumptions". If we are being visited by the alien equivalent of teens with second or third hand cars, then all bets are off. Interesting book though. I don't remember much about the specifics since it has been, what? decades since I read it, but it was fun.

I know there are a lot of assumptions in this quote, but I still believe it makes a good point as to why we may not be seeing a lot of downed craft.

That book has been around for a while, hasn't it?

Here's a link to a free PDF upload.
The Gods of Eden

It has been. I got a physical copy on Amazon.

even then he is still going with the assumption that we are dealing with ET craft

humanoidlord said:

even then he is still going with the assumption that we are dealing with ET craft

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What we are dealing with can be only:

1 Aliens only
2 Earth humans only
3 Or both

Take ur pic

Actually in the book, he states that about 95% of sightings can be contributed to natural phenomena or manmade craft.

how reliable alien engineering is would seem quite a bit further than our collective reality is
humans can't even admit that USA cars are designed to fail in order to make more money
the japan car makers comment on this. telling that they try to make cars that last forever but can't manage like they know the USA ones can (but do not bother to do so)

so,
how are we all so all knowing that we know the failure rate of things built far away when we can't even see the failure rate of current popular transportation on earth without political influence ?

bill.zen said:

I know there are a lot of assumptions in this quote, but I still believe it makes a good point as to why we may not be seeing a lot of downed craft.

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The key phrase there is "downed craft." That's a whole different category than "spontaneous crashes due to mechanical failure," which he's using as his baseline. I would think that the DoD would have been trying to shoot these craft down with energy weapons for decades, for violating our most sensitive airspace. Maybe they found weapons that actually work against some of them. For the kind of money we spend on defense, I think it's reasonable to expect that something could be engineered to bring these things down, at least once in awhile.

And if they did bring some of these things down, they'd certainly be ready to recover the wreckage quickly and quietly. Who knows how many times a craft could've been brought down in the remote areas where our most sensitive military installations are located? It's not like the DoD would tell us about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if we'd downed and recovered several of these craft over the span of the last few decades. I mean, from a military POV, these craft are a wet dream come true - they can outmaneuver everything we've got, and harnessing that kind of tech would give us a decisive first strike capability. As well as the ultimate defense against incoming missiles, and the ultimate spying capabilities. Any Secretary of Defense with a lick of sense could see that, and make the acquisition of this kind of technology a top priority.

Thomas, do you believe that any extraterrestrial craft have crashed on earth at any time? If so, please list a few instances that you find credible.

wwkirk said:

Thomas, do you believe that any extraterrestrial craft have crashed on earth at any time? If so, please list a few instances that you find credible.

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Not speaking for the man but
Thomas would need evidence before he would believe anything, I can promise you he does not.

It would be interesting to know his thoughts on it though.

wwkirk said:

Thomas, do you believe that any extraterrestrial craft have crashed on earth at any time? If so, please list a few instances that you find credible.

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Shadowprophet said:

Not speaking for the man but
Thomas would need evidence before he would believe anything, I can promise you he does not.

It would be interesting to know his thoughts on it though.

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That's right - I don't believe anything, but like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more craft had been downed by our military and recovered covertly. Dr. Eric Davis said that this was the case a few months ago on C2C, and he said that a back-engineering program dedicated to the recovered technology had been shuttered in 1989 to give our science some time to catch up, because they couldn't make any progress with it at that time. He didn't specify any particular crash events, other to to say that it would be a "good bet" to assume that Roswell involved one such recovery operation. I would assume that if craft have been downed and recovered, we wouldn't know about it - the military doesn't share its secrets with the public, and most people grossly underestimate the capability of the national security apparatus to protect highly classified information. If anyone doubts the terrifying power of the government's security apparatus, have a look at Bob Widmer's response to Nick Cook when he asked him about it, in his TV special Billion Dollar Secret.

Without any hard data, it's impossible to form a rational conclusion on the subject. But all of the tell-tale signs seem to add up to a likelihood of recovered technology. I gather that the AATIP did study a highly exotic photonic metamaterial; I give that a roughly 80% likelihood, given the confirmations from multiple sources. Jacques Vallee has spoken about an isotopic analysis of some slag in a trace evidence case from Argentina, which points to a nuclear engineering technology. So it does appear that these craft are advanced nonterrestrial technology, and that we've recovered some of it. But we won't know until we see some hard empirical evidence, and in the meantime it's silly to believe in something that we can't prove.

But by the same token, it's silly to disbelieve it as well. It's a perfectly plausible possibility. Right now, we just don't know one way or the other.

Thomas R. Morrison said:

That's right - I don't believe anything, but like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more craft had been downed by our military and recovered covertly. Dr. Eric Davis said that this was the case a few months ago on C2C, and he said that a back-engineering program dedicated to the recovered technology had been shuttered in 1989 to give our science some time to catch up, because they couldn't make any progress with it at that time. He didn't specify any particular crash events, other to to say that it would be a "good bet" to assume that Roswell involved one such recovery operation. I would assume that if craft have been downed and recovered, we wouldn't know about it - the military doesn't share its secrets with the public, and most people grossly underestimate the capability of the national security apparatus to protect highly classified information. If anyone doubts the terrifying power of the government's security apparatus, have a look at Bob Widmer's response to Nick Cook when he asked him about it, in his TV special Billion Dollar Secret.

Without any hard data, it's impossible to form a rational conclusion on the subject. But all of the tell-tale signs seem to add up to a likelihood of recovered technology. I gather that the AATIP did study a highly exotic photonic metamaterial; I give that a roughly 80% likelihood, given the confirmations from multiple sources. Jacques Vallee has spoken about an isotopic analysis of some slag in a trace evidence case from Argentina, which points to a nuclear engineering technology. So it does appear that these craft are advanced nonterrestrial technology, and that we've recovered some of it. But we won't know until we see some hard empirical evidence, and in the meantime it's silly to believe in something that we can't prove.

But by the same token, it's silly to disbelieve it as well. It's a perfectly plausible possibility. Right now, we just don't know one way or the other.

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I find that fascinating, You know how I am, I like to take ideas and run with them, sometimes it's like running with scissors, It's exciting, But it's a bad habit, So I am on the other side of the fence, Because of my nature, I totally believe we have downed craft. I wonder if some of our technological evolution like the micro transistor came from recovered technology.

While I understand the micro transistor is well documented, Still, Before this tiny thing, we were using tubes. This is an amazing leap, Almost suspicious, But that's just me.

Shadowprophet said:

I find that fascinating, You know how I am, I like to take ideas and run with them, sometimes it's like running with scissors, It's exciting, But it's a bad habit, So I am on the other side of the fence, Because of my nature, I totally believe we have downed craft. I wonder if some of our technological evolution like the micro transistor came from recovered technology.

While I understand the micro transistor is well documented, Still, Before this tiny thing, we were using tubes. This is an amazing leap, Almost suspicious, But that's just me.

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I remember Col. Corso talking about seeding components into academic research projects to speed things along, and citing the transistor as one example. He cited several others as well - lasers and fiberoptics, among others, iirc.

Ultimately it's an unfalsifiable claim, because if it was done that way, there wouldn't be any way to know whether any specific phase of advancement was produced by spontaneous insight or not.

My position is simple: the advancements that we've seen can be well-explained as natural developments in the scientific process. So any "outside intervention" appears to be superfluous. Therefore none of the examples that he provided can be cited as evidence that his claims were true. And if his claims are true, then where the hell are these components of alien technology now? Nothing has surfaced.

It also seems like an insane strategy to begin with. If the DoD had pieces of alien technology, I would assume that they'd keep it a well-guarded secret, and only let their own scientists with very high security clearances see that kind of thing, and experiment with it. After all, the DoD budget offers access to the highest grade of analytical and experimental technology - by comparison academic research labs generally scrape by on pathetic budgets. And releasing any findings from an alien technology is the antithesis of a sensible defense strategy - by putting that stuff out "into the wild" publicly, that tech soon becomes available to all of our geopolitical adversaries. So they'd be flushing the defense advantage of acquiring that technology in the first place, right down the toilet.

Thomas R. Morrison said:

I remember Col. Corso talking about seeding components into academic research projects to speed things along, and citing the transistor as one example. He cited several others as well - lasers and fiberoptics, among others, iirc.

Ultimately it's an unfalsifiable claim, because if it was done that way, there wouldn't be any way to know whether any specific phase of advancement was produced by spontaneous insight or not.

My position is simple: the advancements that we've seen can be well-explained as natural developments in the scientific process. So any "outside intervention" appears to be superfluous. Therefore none of the examples that he provided can be cited as evidence that his claims were true. And if his claims are true, then where the hell are these components of alien technology now? Nothing has surfaced.

It also seems like an insane strategy to begin with. If the DoD had pieces of alien technology, I would assume that they'd keep it a well-guarded secret, and only let their own scientists with very high security clearances see that kind of thing, and experiment with it. After all, the DoD budget offers access to the highest grade of analytical and experimental technology - by comparison academic research labs generally scrape by on pathetic budgets. And releasing any findings from an alien technology is the antithesis of a sensible defense strategy - by putting that stuff out "into the wild" publicly, that tech soon becomes available to all of our geopolitical adversaries. So they'd be flushing the defense advantage of acquiring that technology in the first place, right down the toilet.

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I was torn between awesome and agree. Awesome won out.

Thomas R. Morrison said:

I remember Col. Corso talking about seeding components into academic research projects to speed things along, and citing the transistor as one example. He cited several others as well - lasers and fiberoptics, among others, iirc.

Ultimately it's an unfalsifiable claim, because if it was done that way, there wouldn't be any way to know whether any specific phase of advancement was produced by spontaneous insight or not.

My position is simple: the advancements that we've seen can be well-explained as natural developments in the scientific process. So any "outside intervention" appears to be superfluous. Therefore none of the examples that he provided can be cited as evidence that his claims were true. And if his claims are true, then where the hell are these components of alien technology now? Nothing has surfaced.

It also seems like an insane strategy to begin with. If the DoD had pieces of alien technology, I would assume that they'd keep it a well-guarded secret, and only let their own scientists with very high security clearances see that kind of thing, and experiment with it. After all, the DoD budget offers access to the highest grade of analytical and experimental technology - by comparison academic research labs generally scrape by on pathetic budgets. And releasing any findings from an alien technology is the antithesis of a sensible defense strategy - by putting that stuff out "into the wild" publicly, that tech soon becomes available to all of our geopolitical adversaries. So they'd be flushing the defense advantage of acquiring that technology in the first place, right down the toilet.

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According to Corso's book, the Russians were very much in the know about technology gleaned from UFOs This wasn't seen as an entirely bad thing, as we also had access to their findings. Corso states that there was alot of controlled leaking going on, as both sides realized they couldn't figure it out on their own and so limited and unacknowledged cooperation was found to be beneficial.

This seems apropos. Has anyone read it? Kevin Randle strikes me as very level headed.
History of Ufo Crashes

I feel that most of the stories about alleged UFO crashes are basically disinformation, an easy way of covering up crashes of our own black projects. The fact that they began in the 1940s, after the acquisition of Nazi technology that included discoid aircraft possibly employing field propulsion technology, is key. Evidence of disinformation appeared in the famous Roswell incident. For me the conclusive fact is the official request to a local company for a number of child sized coffins. If you were trying to cover up the fact that you had recovered small alien bodies at a crash site, why do such a thing? There are enough body bags, crates and boxes easily available at any military base, and what is wrong with using adult sized coffins -- wouldn't small bodies fit in them? The only reason for this request must have been to plant the idea of small corpses and a possible alien source.
The obsession with alleged crashes even caused the early researchers at Rendlesham, especially Jenny Randles, to describe that incident as a "crash landing." There is nothing in any evidence coming from Rendlesham to suggest anything other than a controlled descent; in fact I have heard from a family member of the local gamekeeper that both he and a local lady, saw it coming down slowly.
I think it would be worth carefully re-examining all such stories for signs of disinformation. If UFOs are "alien space craft" and the product of a technology perhaps thousands of years ahead of ours, then they wouldn't be crashing. If they are something even more exotic, ditto. The Lazar story is also typical disinformation. He may well believe what he is saying but mind control techniques are quite capable of achieving this. Incidentally, bear in mind that Corso was the first US Intelligence office to draw attention to the use of brainwashing techniques by the Chinese during the Korean war, and that at least one person involved in the University of Colorado UFO project was an active participant in the MKultra mind control research programme (David Saunders). Look into the backgrounds of some of the people involved in these cases.