The Divided State of Europe

nivek

As Above So Below
Yellow Vests hit streets in France for 10th week in a row

For the 10th week in a row, Yellow Vest protesters filled the streets of Paris and other cities in France, with thousands of police standing guard. Earlier, President Emmanuel Macron launched his “national debates” on the crisis.

Around 84,000 people had joined the protests across the country on Saturday, the Interior Ministry said. The turnout was comparable to that of last week, meaning that the nation-wide debate on the crisis announced by President Emmanuel Macron so far did little to change the people’s moods.

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nivek

As Above So Below
1. Two world wars.
A very partial view. It is almost true that US had been in some war with some country, every year since WW2 ended. More bombs were dropped on a tiny Vietnam than on Germany in whole WW2.

What is your point here, it is understood that not just the US but Russia (Soviet Union too) UK, Australia and other NATO allies have been in many wars since WW2, justifying one war because of others is what I'm reading, did I misunderstand?...None of these other wars after WW2 consumed the world as did WW1 and WW2, hence the usage of "World Wars"...

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nivek

As Above So Below
We can also see by this information that the EU countries having the biggest issues with this MASS migration such as Hungary have their immigration numbers close to or back to the number it was 10 years ago, after that insane and unmanageable 2015/16 spike...

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nivek

As Above So Below
I edited the title moments ago, I thought it now reflects the current situation better, which is also not unique, the US is also becoming very divided, its almost as if a hidden power is instigating this in the West...

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nivek

As Above So Below
EU (Germany) Wants to Punish Countries that Refuse to Accept Migrants

Fidesz MEP Tamás Deutsch said on Sunday that the European Union was “threatening and blackmailing” anti-migration countries and wanted to punish EU member states that refused to take in migrants.

Speaking at a press conference in Budapest, Deutsch said the EP decision on Thursday to set up a mechanism tying EU funding to observance of the rule of law in member states made clear that “Brussels wants to punish countries that have not accepted migrants”. “This is an outrageous and unacceptable political action disguised as an annual report on EU fundamental rights,” he said.

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Captain Tinkle

Honorable
I edited the title moments ago, I thought it now reflects the current situation better, which is also not unique, the US is also becoming very divided, its almost as if a hidden power is instigating this in the West...

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Has the United States ever been "United"?

Looking in, it would seem the US is very much split between party lines, young and old. Much like the UK.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Has the United States ever been "United"?

Looking in, it would seem the US is very much split between party lines, young and old. Much like the UK.

Yeah the split widens more and more, especially in the last 20 years...

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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Have you even researched this at all, you are very off the mark, this is simply from Wiki...

European migrant crisis - Wikipedia

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So we can see by the last image 90 percent of the immigrants are from muslim countries and by all accounts we also know that many will not integrate with European culture, but they will create over time a muslim European culture which will change the whole of Europe and as we see now will clash with the traditional European culture which is Christian...

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Wow, this is much higher than what I expected, thank you for correcting me. But, as discussed in previous posts, this is EU & US manufactured emigration caused by unchecked hubris of the West. Wild West self-righteously bombed so many Muslim economies back into the stone age, that excessive Muslim immigration is nothing but karma restoring itself to neutral.

Culture is unlikely to be an issue anywhere in the world, because for millenia cultures mixed and trived in large cities, from Babilon to New York. But, problem is militant Vahabisam openly sponsored by Saudis to which Wild West is turning a blind eye because of oil and money. If Wild West dealt with Saudis with firmer hand, most of theorists would melt away.
 
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nivek

As Above So Below
The media doesn't talk about this in the US, I am told many EU countries like Germany are silent in the media about this...

Yellow Vests call for UPRISING in France this weekend saying country is at WAR!

As the Gilets Jaunes continue to march forward to another weekend of protest there is an increasingly revolutionary fervour surrounding the language that they are using. This comes after one of the most prominent Yellow Vest leaders Jerome Rodrigues was shot with a flashball, an enhanced rubber bullet, that could see him lose an eye.

The mainstream media in the UK apparently has a D Notice meaning they are BANNED from reporting on France.



Rodrigues is a close ally of Leader Eric Drouet who had previously gone on national TV calling for the Elysee Palace to be stormed which saw him receive a visit from the Police. Now in a statement he has evoked the language of the French Revolution saying:

Meanwhile embattled President Macron is on a trip to Egypt where he mocked Salvini’s Government saying: “The Italian people are our friends and deserve leaders who live up to their history.” He then also sarcastically quipped and wished Italy’s coalition “good luck” in agitating against him and France.

Macron has also been universally mocked over his support for the uprising taking place in Venezuela with many commenting that while he is supporting revolutionaries in Venezuela he has used the full might of the French security apparatus to crush. His approval ratings continue to stand at historic lows for any French leader.

One prominent Italian Minister has said that a new order is set to emerge in Europe with Salvini taking the helm. He said: “Just as Merkel was Europe’s guide for many years, now it will be Salvini. Everyone will have to talk to Salvini. His leadership will no longer be just Italian, but European too.”

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nivek

As Above So Below
Culture is unlikely to be an issue anywhere in the world, because for millenia cultures mixed and trived in large cities, from Babilon to New York. But, problem is militant Vahabisam openly sponsored by Saudis to which Wild West is turning a blind eye because of oil and money. If Wild West dealt with Saudis with firmer hand, most of theorists would melt away.

Europe doesn't need to be too concerned about Saudi Arabia right now, the bigger problem of the EU is one it let in its gates, its not just cultural, its social, judicial, and religious all in one and it does not mix...There are Shiite terrorist organizations which the Sunni Saudis do not and cannot control...

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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
The mainstream media in the UK apparently has a D Notice meaning they are BANNED from reporting on France

I've never heard of "D Notice", but did notice on many occasions that British media routinely ignore some world events that other outlets report on.

Replacing medieval Saudi warlords with parliamentary democracy would have an instant effect of peacefully integrating billions of Muslim people into global world without friction.
 

AD1184

Celestial
Replacing medieval Saudi warlords with parliamentary democracy would have an instant effect of peacefully integrating billions of Muslim people into global world without friction.
That is probably the most delusional statement I have read in a very long time. How do you propose that the Saudi monarchy be replaced? Moreover, why on earth do you think that democracy in any part of the Islamic Middle East will peacefully integrate them with the rest of the world? Where it has been tried in the region, it has not worked.
 

AD1184

Celestial
The mainstream media in the UK apparently has a D Notice meaning they are BANNED from reporting on France.
I don't suppose they have a source for this allegation, or care to back it up with any evidence that they themselves can provide?

I have found the following articles from British news outlets on the Yellow Vests movement in France all written within the past few days (well, except that the Express is not really a news outlet, but let's just ignore that for the purpose of this discussion):


Macron warned of 'AUTHORITARIAN' rule after threatening ‘yellow vest’ leader with court
French police weapons under scrutiny after gilets jaunes injuries
France’s gilets jaunes used to cause chaos. Right now they’re just chaotic | Pauline Bock
Chaotic France yellow vest protests held for eleventh weekend running
France has had enough and now its middle classes are taking on the yellow-vest movement themselves
The French police’s brutality against the gilets jaunes can no longer be denied

And here is a British news article directly addressing this allegation of a D notice existing on this matter, and calling it a "bonkers conspiracy theory":

Has the BBC been ordered to stop reporting on ‘Yellow Vest’ protests? | Metro News
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
That is probably the most delusional statement I have read in a very long time. How do you propose that the Saudi monarchy be replaced? Moreover, why on earth do you think that democracy in any part of the Islamic Middle East will peacefully integrate them with the rest of the world? Where it has been tried in the region, it has not worked.

Wild West's so far successfully replaced doezens of third world regimes. It is fair to say that methodology had been tested and perfected and it works like clockwork. It is more a question of uniting political will and choosing good timing.

There are many functional democracies in Muslim world, like Turkey, Egypt, Iran and Iraq. Obviously they are far from standards of European democracies, but with exception of Iran, none of them is exporting religious wars.

Democratic Saudi Arabia will be much more open country, it would attract even more foreign investment and it would even more focus on its internal problems like high unemployment, instead of waging Jihads and torturing it's citizens.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
as I understand, Yellow Wests don't have very strong central leadership, but are spontaneously self-organising through social media.

That's quite a new phenomena.
 

AD1184

Celestial
Wild West's so far successfully replaced doezens of third world regimes. It is fair to say that methodology had been tested and perfected and it works like clockwork. It is more a question of uniting political will and choosing good timing.

There are many functional democracies in Muslim world, like Turkey, Egypt, Iran and Iraq. Obviously they are far from standards of European democracies, but with exception of Iran, none of them is exporting religious wars.

Democratic Saudi Arabia will be much more open country, it would attract even more foreign investment and it would even more focus on its internal problems like high unemployment, instead of waging Jihads and torturing it's citizens.
Recent overthrows in the Muslim world have had disastrous consequences. The stupid overthrow of the Iranian leader Mosaddegh in the 1950s led to a friendly government for only twenty years or so, before it resulted in a violent revolution installing Khomeini's hostile theocracy.

Other regime changes, even though they have been disasters, have been directed at easy targets. Saudi Arabia is not an easy target, having a large, well-funded, and well-equipped military with modern western equipment and a spectacularly large wealth on which to draw. Any attempt at regime change in Saudi Arabia would lead to a global cataclysm.

Your examples of "functioning democracies" really stretch any reasonable definition of the term. Turkey was founded as a secular state. Its current leader, Erdogan, is an Islamist and has made Turkey increasingly Islamist. As it has become more Islamist, so it has become less democratic. Its people voted recently in a referendum to make Erdogan essentially an autocrat. Erdogan himself said, several years ago, "Democracy is like a tram. You ride it until you arrive at your destination, then you step off.”

Egypt had more-or-less fair and open elections in 2012 which installed the rabidly Islamist Muslim Brotherhood in power in the country. The situation was so unpalatable that the Egyptian military took over in a coup and massacred hundreds of protesters doing so. The poll was re-run a year later with military-approved candidates in the running. The Muslim Brotherhood boycotted the election.

Iraq's politics are a mess. It faces a massive perennial Islamist insurrection and continual armed conflict. It could not stably exist without US military intervention. What is the cumulative and ongoing cost in lives of Iraq's "democracy"?

The Economist magazine's Intelligence Unit ranks Iran at 150th (out of 167) in the globe in its Democracy Index in 2017, only nine places ahead of Saudi Arabia, whom you say requires a regime change to make it democratic. It has an unelected supreme leader, and its "elections" are not free and fair, with ballot-stuffing by the regime to ensure that their preferred candidate is the "winner". The Economist divides nations into one of four types: Full democracy, flawed democracy, hybrid regime and authoritarian regime. Iran is classed as an authoritarian regime.

You share the regime changers' delusional assumption, proven false again and again, that simply granting a country a democracy makes it stable, law-governed and able to join the international ranks of first world countries. It does not. Democracy does not give a country an ordered liberty like what exists in the West. Instead it is an ordered liberty that makes a democracy viable. Trying to prescribe democracy from outside does not and cannot work.

The only aim that unites the peoples of most middle eastern nations is the destruction of Israel. Parties which have this aim frequently poll very well in the region, when elections are granted. Democracy does not equal less Islamism, it equals more Islamism.
 
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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Your examples of "functioning democracies" really stretch any reasonable definition of the term

I clearly said that current Muslim democracies are not on the same level as Western ones. But some democracy is better than none. If "democracy is like a tram" than it can obviously move in both directions.

With Saudis whole thing is just about demonising royal family, without disturbing the rest of ruling elite. If only Saudy royal family is demonised, than military and elite would have every reason to feel safe and switch loyalties. And they will both benefit from new opportunities that will arise with democracy.
 
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AD1184

Celestial
I clearly said that current Muslim democracies are not on the same level as Western ones. But some democracy is better than none. If "democracy is like a tram" than it can obviously move in both directions.
North Korea is known officially as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Do you consider it to be democracy as well, albeit one that does not meet western standards of democracy?
 

nivek

As Above So Below
There are many functional democracies in Muslim world, like Turkey, Egypt, Iran and Iraq.

Iran is not in any way shape or form a Democracy, Egypt barely after the disastrous "arab spring" (which also destroyed Libya), Turkey once was, and Iraq is an utter complete mess, it was much better off with Saddam running the country, at least there was a balance or power against Iran...Western democracy does not work in the middle east...

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nivek

As Above So Below
I don't suppose they have a source for this allegation, or care to back it up with any evidence that they themselves can provide?

I have found the following articles from British news outlets on the Yellow Vests movement in France all written within the past few days (well, except that the Express is not really a news outlet, but let's just ignore that for the purpose of this discussion):


Macron warned of 'AUTHORITARIAN' rule after threatening ‘yellow vest’ leader with court
French police weapons under scrutiny after gilets jaunes injuries
France’s gilets jaunes used to cause chaos. Right now they’re just chaotic | Pauline Bock
Chaotic France yellow vest protests held for eleventh weekend running
France has had enough and now its middle classes are taking on the yellow-vest movement themselves
The French police’s brutality against the gilets jaunes can no longer be denied

And here is a British news article directly addressing this allegation of a D notice existing on this matter, and calling it a "bonkers conspiracy theory":

Has the BBC been ordered to stop reporting on ‘Yellow Vest’ protests? | Metro News

DailyMail has had small amounts of reporting, I have been disturbed by them lately as they seem to show no bounds in finding ways of throwing ads in your face (screen) from video popups to ads the consume the entire screen until you click something to clear it...Its quite pathetic...

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