Latest on Bob Lazar

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
There is lots of things. He didn't claim anything, he just made observations.

I count statistical trends in physical observations of all witnesses. More physical trends one witness hits, trends that others witnesses before and after him observed, higher I rate his testimonial. If a witness mentions something that no other witness mentioned before him and that something is 100% little known scientific phenomena, that counts very high, as well. Additionally, if witness makes a scientific prediction that comes true in a future, I count him as golden.

- He said that everything was pewter in color, inside and outside of the craft. By far, the largest percentage of UFO witnesses, before and after Bob Lazar, said the same thing.

- He said that outer wall panels of the craft would became transparent. Lots of witnesses reported UFO crafts being transparent when looked from inside out. And, I now know for the 100% fact that, at least most metals, can became transparent like a glass under certain conditions.

- He predicted element 114. That's completely indisputable. One has 1 in 1,000,000 chance of accidentally making scientific prediction.

- He said that they were able to communicate with person inside the craft with UHF radio. That means that pewter material was not conductor, because conductor would form Faraday's cage and radio waves wouldn't go through, but around the craft.

- He said that on inside everything was curved, like if made of wax. Every physicist would tell you that all fields, electromagnetic and gravitational, don't like sharp angles. Fields loose energy at sharp corners. If everything is curved on inside, that means that when craft is operational, walls of the craft are filled with electromagnetic radiation. Many abductees reported the same.

- One little detail he explained about the propulsion, was recently explained by an scientist, but I can't elaborate on that.

- When craft was hovering 3-6 feet off the ground there was a blue plasma gathering around the bottom center of the craft. Earth is conductive, when a high voltage object is close to a conductor, all electrons in it will travel towards nearest spot to that conductor. That's called electrostatic induction. So voltage around the bottom center of the hull was getting higher and producing blue plasma. This is very physically consistent little detail.
 
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nivek

As Above So Below
Clearly Lazar is a hoaxer, his fake credential claims are enough to prove that. And nobody with his pubic records of credit problems and bankruptcies would get an extremely sensitive security clearance.

But I'm also really tired of people making false statements about Moscovium, aka element 115. For example, from the transcript:

“But beyond that, with so far every point I’ve addressed contradicting his story other than the element’s mere existence, we have the stability problem. Ununpentium is near one predicted island of stability, between copernicium and flerovium, elements 112 and 114. But the known isotopes are not stable. And the predicted maximum stability of the most stable version, ununpentium-291, is only seconds.”

No that’s wrong. According to the macro-microscopic nuclear model used by the world’s leading superheavy elements research facility – the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research (JINR) in Dubna, Russia (which is how element 115 got the name Moscovium), the center of the island of stability is around the doubly magic nuclear number Z = 114 and N = 184, so the most stable isotope of element 115 is probably Moscovium-299, not 291.

And according to the research director of the JINR, Dr. Yuri Oganessian, who’s widely considered to be the world’s leading researcher on this subject, isotopes near the center of the island of stability could have half-lives on the order of thousands or even millions of years:

“It was natural to extend this approach to the region of nuclei with Z ≥ 104, where, according to the droplet model, nuclei may not exist. A formal calculation led to unexpected results. It turned out that in the deformed nucleus with mass 270 (Z = 108 and N = 162) a fission barrier occurs, which leads to an increase in its half-life to seconds (instead of 10-19 sec). But even higher stability appears in heavier (superheavy) nuclei with proton number Z = 114 and a large number of neutrons N = 184. Here the strong effect of new nuclear shells works, similarly to the shells Z = 82 and N = 126 in the «doubly magic» spherical nucleus 208Pb. Some new calculations indicate that on the map of nucleiheavyweights form a large enough area, called the «Island of Stability» of superheavy elements (see Fig.1). In the region where the liquid-drop model predicted that the nuclei should decay within 10-19 sec, now the half-lives of «long-lived» nuclei at the peak of the island of stability are expected to reach thousands and even millions of years! (see, for example, review [5]).”
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/337/1/012005/pdf

He also makes this absurd statement in that transcript:

“Beyond that, the only other parts of this to mention are everything he claims about using it for propulsion. Like, if you bombard it with protons it makes antimatter. Which makes no sense because he claimed that you had to input material, to get antimatter, which produces energy when it reacts with matter. Simple conservation of mass and energy means you get absolutely NOTHING out of this. You spend a proton, you get an anti-proton, you react with a proton, you get energy exactly equal to the mass-energy of the particles that went into it. Everything is conserved. You get nothing out of it.”

For some reason this guy thinks that you “get nothing out of it” if you’re not increasing the mass-energy content of the universe, i.e., violating the conservation of energy (and perhaps the conservation of baryon number along the way). That’s stupid. We’re talking about a portable energy source, not violating the laws of physics. So here’s the deal:

Sometimes nuclei spontaneously decay by emitting the antimatter equivalent of an electron – a positron. If you collide that positron with an electron, then all of their rest mass gets converted into energy, which you can use to do stuff. So if you could make 1 gram of antimatter through some nuclear decay process, and let it interact with 1 gram of matter, you would liberate 1.8 x 10^21 ergs of energy, or 1.8 x 10^14 joules; the equivalent of a 42.96 kiloton nuclear warhead going off (but in a controlled fashion of course, and I’m neglecting the energy lost to neutrino production for simplicity). That’s a larger yield than the Fat Man and Little Boy bombs we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, combined. And you got all that energy for the low-low price of two grams of fuel. We don’t know of a more efficient energy production method than this. Matter-antimatter annihilation is the most efficient energy source known to modern physics.

However, I don’t see how the metastable isotopes of Moscovium could be a useful source of antimatter, as Lazar claims. Lots of nuclei decay through positron emission, but very little of the mass of each nucleus goes into it, and the rest is just very energetic waste product, so it’s not an efficient concept. In fact you get more kinetic energy and high-energy photons from the by-products of ordinary nuclear decay processes, which is why we use radioisotope fuel cells to power long-term space probes like the Pioneer spacecraft.

In my view Lazar’s story was debunked decades ago. But people shouldn’t be making false scientific arguments just to keep beating a dead horse.

His false claims and lies have been revealed and debunked decades ago, it's astonishing to me that people still think he has presented anything else but lies and deception...He is clearly taking advantage of ufology for monetary gain and attention...

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Dean

Adept Dabbler
He didn't claim anything, he just made observations.

He claimed a great many things. Of the claims that can be objectively checked, a great many have long since been found to be false, including his claims to hold master's degrees from Cal Tech and MIT. Faced with such disconfirmations, True Believers in the Lazar cult invent ever-more-convoluted rationalizations, edit what he said years ago, etc.

I count statistical trends in physical observations of all witnesses. More physical trends one witness hits, trends that others witnesses before and after him observed, higher I rate his testimonial.

Despite his denials, Lazar was clearly well acquainted with "UFO lore" prior to coming forward with his stories, describing things that other people had described earlier adds nothing to his credibility. To cite just one example, when purportedly assigned to ed to S-4, Lazar said he saw that the security badges read "Majestic." Lazar: "It made me crack a smile," as he recognized the reference to the then-popular "MJ-12" stories. Said Lazar, "I began to wonder is this really the Majestic everyone talks about, or was it something done for nostalgia reasons...?" (Dreamland: Travels Inside the Secret World of Roswell and Area 51, by Phil Patton, 1998, p. 32)

He predicted element 114. That's completely indisputable. One has 1 in 1,000,000 chance of accidentally making scientific prediction.

I think you mean "Element 115," which the world knows as ununpentium or Moscovium, although Lazar sells coffee mugs and T-shirts that call an Element 115 isotope "Lazarium." No kidding.

A 1-in-1000000 chance, you say, that Lazar would "predict" the existence of an element between 114 and 116 on the Periodic Table of the Elements? Hmmmm, I'd say the odds were more like 1-in-1. Let's see what Stuart Robbins had to say on this subject in his article about Lazar's Element 115 claims:

Scientists were openly predicting that these elements existed at least in the 1960s, over two decades before Bob Lazar made his claims about element 115. So the very fact that he incorporated ununpentium into his story, and then ununpentium was synthesized, does NOT mean that his story is automatically true.

That may seem like an obvious statement to many of you, but you’re an elite audience; many people miss or choose not to understand this, evidenced by the fact that when ununpentium was first possibly observed in a particle accelerator, various chatrooms and forums on the internet lit up with statements that Bob Lazar was vindicated.

Unfortunately, the very method of his apparent vindication - that element 115 had finally been created - directly contradicts a key claim that Bob Lazar made: Ununpentium cannot be synthesized in a lab. That it must be found in naturally occurring deposits that can only be made in high-mass star systems.

This itself makes no sense. Stars during their normal life produce nothing heavier than iron because everything heavier than iron takes more energy than it gives up in the fusion process. It’s only in supernova explosions that you get heavier elements, including the ones with very short half-lives like probably ununpentium, which means that if there’s a stable isotope, it should be everywhere because the entirety of our galaxy has been seeded by supernova explosions by this point in time. . . .

Nothing about his story checks out. Nothing he said about ununpentium checks out, other than it exists, but even embedded within the validation of ununpentium’s existence is a refutation of Bob Lazar’s story: He said it couldn’t be manufactured.

And so, we’re left with a fun story and nothing else but some lessons we can carry over to other fields. I don’t have to tell you that because Spiderman takes place in New York City, and New York City is real, that does not mean Spiderman is real. I don’t have to tell you that because scientists are working on ways to make things invisible, that means Harry Potter is real.​
 

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More I learn about physics of UFOs, more Bob Lazar's claims confirm themselves.

As far as UFO physics is concerned, Lazar is so far 90% right on the money.
Smh... I don't know what you mean by "UFO physics," but if it bears any resemblance to our Earth physics, then no, pretty much all of his theorizing is BS and flies in the face of everything we know.

- He said that everything was pewter in color, inside and outside of the craft. By far, the largest percentage of UFO witnesses, before and after Bob Lazar, said the same thing.
Since that was always a common feature in the literature, it's also very possible if not likely that he/they "borrowed" that detail to create the illusion of credibility.

- He said that outer wall panels of the craft would became transparent. Lots of witnesses reported UFO crafts being transparent when looked from inside out. And, I now know for the 100% fact that, at least most metals, can became transparent like a glass under certain conditions.
See the response above.

- He predicted element 114. That's completely indisputable. One has 1 in 1,000,000 chance of accidentally making scientific prediction.
No, he predicted nothing. Nuclear physicists predicted that element 114 would be at the center of the island of stablility as early as 1969. Here's one paper about it:

"Stability of superheavy nuclei and their possible occurrence in nature," SG Nilsson, SG Thompson, CF Tsang, Physics Letters B, 1969
https://escholarship.org/dist/wJD5zTgC2vrImRR/dist/prd/content/qt8d1460fx/qt8d1460fx.pdf

- He said that they were able to communicate with person inside the craft with UHF radio. That means that pewter material was not conductor, because conductor would form Faraday's cage and radio waves wouldn't go through, but around the craft.
So that's actually a strike against his story. Pewter would be a metallic finish, and metals are conductors, so that shouldn't have worked.

- He said that on inside everything was curved, like if made of wax. Every physicist would tell you that all fields, electromagnetic and gravitational, don't like sharp angles. Fields loose energy at sharp corners. If everything is curved on inside, that means that when craft is operational, walls of the craft are filled with electromagnetic radiation. Many abductees reported the same.
Again, this is a common feature of the reports. So he could've just lifted this detail from the pre-existing literature.

- One little detail he explained about the propulsion, was recently explained by an scientist, but I can't elaborate on that.
Okay but without elaborating on that we can't assess it's credibility, so this doesn't count as a point.

- When craft was hovering 3-6 feet off the ground there was a blue plasma gathering around the bottom center of the craft. Earth is conductive, when a high voltage object is close to a conductor, all electrons in it will travel towards nearest spot to that conductor. That's called electrostatic induction. So voltage around the bottom center of the hull was getting higher and producing blue plasma. This is very physically consistent little detail.
If it employs a gravitational field propulsion concept, they why would it generate a high voltage? This detail explains nothing. But lots of these craft have been seen to glow so he could've just made this up based on earlier reports.

I've looked for real science in Lazar's story and I found nothing but unverifiable claims and bad physics. As far as I'm concerned The Lazar Timeline clinches it: Lazar is a liar and a fraud. Based entirely on the publicly available records and his own statements, he never actually went to MIT. It appears that he was nothing more than a low-grade tech working for Kirk Meyer at Los Alamos, and his entire UFO story is a complete fabrication.

The Lazar Timeline
 
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Even the mythical S-4 is a howler. At the time of Lazar's fifteen minutes of fame, little was known publicly about Area 51. There were no satellite photos available outside highly secure programs, so he could make up whatever details suited his story. Well, not too long after he had been debunked, the area he claimed to be home to S-4 could be photographed from newly found vantage points, and some satellite images did become available. No examination of Papoose Lake or whatever showed any sign of any such thing as Lazar claimed. His acolytes simply edited the narrative to try to get around that obvious problem, and went on bleeving.

Like Nivek, I am boggled by the fact that more than a handful of cretins believe anything Lazar says. He was exposed immediately as a fraud. By ufologists. All of his claims can be traced to ideas in ufo and informal scientific literature of the day. There was absolutely nothing original in it. Anyone who does not understand the periodic chart, or even know what it is, would be well advised to spend their time learning about it instead of making even more idiotic claims about 115.
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
I've considered every angle about Bob, I don't agree with some of his Physics. Let me present a conglomeration scenario, In real life, if someone is disgraced like loses their spot on a team, Human psychology and pride usually prevent people from saying, "Oh- I fucked up and lost my spot" No, From the disgraced person's position, Thy are going to persistently try to justify themselves.

Oh well, Those guys are keeping secrets from the whole world, Those guys have a lot to hide, They will eventually rationalize, Their betrayal of their original team is justified by the numbers. This is actually a pretty psychological, defense. My assumption is Bob if there is any truth to this, Got their attention, They pulled him in showed him some things, But when you ask Bob, Hey Bob, How did this thing work? Bob always answers, Well, Nobody could really figure out how it worked, That's why we were trying to reverse engineer the thing. My assumption is, Bob somehow got the attention of the right people, and they brought him in, only to discover that bob was all show and no go. My proof is to this often overlooked area in his story, They allegedly brought him in to help figure things about these crafts out, And ole Bob couldn't figure out a damned thing. So he eventually not only lost his favor and his access, When Bob became upset he began to slight them, By telling people about the operation, By bringing people to see the craft in operation at night. Now, How is it that allegedly Bob was unable to figure anything about this craft out, And somehow, People were flying them on test runs at night?

If you ask bob Bob will say, Well, I don't know what the other guys working there knew because we were all sectioned off and had to work by ourselves. First of all, That's so stupid, Like offensively stupid, You don't seek out a group of brilliant people and bring them together into one facility just to have them never meet each other and never work together. Ignorance. Upsettingly alarming stupidity. <--- Fictional. :/

All his records were supposedly destroyed if this was done, This wasn't done to hide any secrets or coverup If they destroyed bob lazars educational record They did it because he is a flagrant traitor and deserved some sort of repercussion for his actions. However, You can't find information on Bob Lazar for the same reason Bob Lazar doesn't have a birth certificate, It's easy to get a social security number, Hey I'm alive, I live here, I'm legally in the United States, Give me a Number. The reason you can't find information on Bob Lazar is that He straight up didn't exist until shortly before his story broke. Not only is the story he tells fictional, But The man himself is also fictional. Easy peasy...
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
So that's actually a strike against his story. Pewter would be a metallic finish, and metals are conductors, so that shouldn't have worked.

Appearance of the surface of some material doesn't correlate with it's conductivity. For example, Mylar is metallic and shiny, but it is actually a very poor conductor. As well, lead's surface is dull because it is usually covered with oxide, but it is a metal, not a ceramic. In other words, just because surface is pewter in appearance it doesn't mean it is metal. It can be ceramic or any other material.
 
Appearance of the surface of some material doesn't correlate with it's conductivity. For example, Mylar is metallic and shiny, but it is actually a very poor conductor. As well, lead's surface is dull because it is usually covered with oxide, but it is a metal, not a ceramic. In other words, just because surface is pewter in appearance it doesn't mean it is metal. It can be ceramic or any other material.
This is pure confirmation bias at work. You're bending over backwards to make excuses for a statement which raises red flags.

Mylar is a clear polyester form of plastic. The metallic Mylar that you see with party balloons and soforth, has been coated with a very thin layer of aluminum. Which is conductive.

Foil Vs. Mylar

So yes, a metallic finish indicates conductivity. Nobody ever reports UFOs as looking oxidized so the lead example is irrelevant.

And the current high-temp superconductors are ceramics, so some ceramics can be conductive too.
 
People seem to have made heavy emotional investments in Lazar's story, and just can't abandon it. It seems like, to them, if he's full of shit then aliens are not real. That's absurd. One might just as well think Navy Seals are not real since some lying putzes have claimed to have been one. Nothing at all beyond Lazar's credibility (and that of his enablers) depends on his story being true. Why is that so hard for the bleevers to grasp? As Stan Friedman and many others have pointed out, it is of vital importance to weed out the liars and the flakes if the subject is to be taken seriously by the general public. Continuing to try to prop up a fraud like Lazar only makes us all look like morons in the eyes of people who don't follow the subject closely.
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
People seem to have made heavy emotional investments in Lazar's story, and just can't abandon it. It seems like, to them, if he's full of shit then aliens are not real. That's absurd. One might just as well think Navy Seals are not real since some lying putzes have claimed to have been one. Nothing at all beyond Lazar's credibility (and that of his enablers) depends on his story being true. Why is that so hard for the bleevers to grasp? As Stan Friedman and many others have pointed out, it is of vital importance to weed out the liars and the flakes if the subject is to be taken seriously by the general public. Continuing to try to prop up a fraud like Lazar only makes us all look like morons in the eyes of people who don't follow the subject closely.
It's a real conundrum, personally, I've been on record about how much I'd love all the stories about greys to be true, However, The key thing to remember is, With things like the Drake equation and Kepler's law, Kepler's Laws New theories about how life arrived on earth and science being almost deadlocked on how Panspermia was the major contributor to life on earth, With "Directed panspermia" coming in a close second. Directed panspermia - Wikipedia <--- Directed panspermia hints at intelligent design, It's an interesting theory. Science is more certain than ever that we are not alone in the cosmos.

I think the larger questions about extraterrestrial life in the bleeding edge of popular science is, Life is almost a certainty out there, But would we even recognize it as life? Would it be so different from us that communication would be impossible? This inevitably leads to the certainty that surely in this vast cosmos other intelligent life must be out there. The problem is, It's either so far away from us or so incompatible with us, That the whole "Space brothers coexistence thing" That people fantasize about may not ever be possible. Fish don't swim in fire and whales don't fly in the air. Aliens logically "probably don't live on earth". For as amazing as it would be to have evidence of alien life, I feel that we haven't found it because most of us are too busy looking for something exactly like us. Bipedal creatures with a proclivity and curiosity to explore the cosmos, Those concepts make perfect sense to us, But those may be Very uniquely human concepts/drives/traits. Aliens Could be so alien to us, That we may not even recognize them as living creatures.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
The Midnight Hour - Bob Lazar Bombshells

Midnight tonight (9pm Pacific time)

 

Dean

Adept Dabbler
"Bob [Bigelow] once created a company with Bob Lazar, the Zeta Reticuli Corporation, to exploit the wondrous supposed properties of Element 115. Lazar exhibited a substance that was light, foam-like, and almost weightless,
hinting it would revolutionize energy and propulsion. The cooperation only lasted until the day when Bob [Bigelow] noticed a container of Lazar's secret sauce in a corner and recognized it as a commercial emulsive product!" -- Jacques Vallee, Forbidden Science Volume 4, page 352, entry for 1997.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Just recently was shared this link, looks like they are still adding information...

BobLazarDebunked.com

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Shadowprophet

Truthiness
periodic-table.png



Around 95 of those 118 elements can be a metal, Even the first element ever discovered Hydrogen.



One may be inclined to ask why? or How is this even on Topic? Well, I figure since Ole Bob can't be bothered to stay on the topic of empirical science. Someone Has too.
 

CasualBystander

Celestial
Here's an article from last year by Joe Murgia, I don't know if it's been posted in this thread or not, but relevant and further casts Lazar as a fraud...

Eric Davis: “Lazar Made Up His Entire Cockamamie Story”

Eric Davis: “Nobody can put a particle accelerator in their home unless the house or their entire property is dozens of square miles in size.

“Element 115 first got synthesized by the Russians in 2003 and was internationally labeled and recognized as element 115 named Muscovium in Dec. 2015. Muscovium’s four isotopes have a half life ranging from 37 milliseconds to 650 milliseconds. So it is impossible for Lazar to have any Muscovite isotope in his house nor the gigantic particle accelerators that produced it via the collisions of other large atoms.

“Also, a Roadrunner (who ran programs at Area-51 for Los Alamos) told me that he knew Lazar’s female supervisor at Area-51 and had her pull up his personnel file. Lazar worked as a radiation health monitor in the unsecured logistics contractor facility outside of Area-51, so he was never inside that site, and he never held security clearances because he didn’t need them to work in an unclassified area. Lazar made up his entire cockamamie story about the UFO that he saw in a building inside Area-51. He was never exposed to any classified information, facilities, or programs in his work area.”

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Eric Davis is full of sh*t.

That doesn't means Lazar isn't.

Building the World’s Smallest Particle Accelerator

Particle accelerator on a chip.

A chip is something smaller than your fingernail.

If you want to accelerate hadrons in a continuous stream to 14 Tev you might need something larger.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Jeremy Corbell has blocked me on twitter, he seems not to like this thread promoted nor the information posted about Lazar that counters their campaign...Might I add, for those who don't know, Jeremy Corbell is making money from sponsoring Lazar, his lies, and shenanigans, currently Lazar is Corbell's poster boy...:Whistle:

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