UFO Pilot Under-Reporting Bias.

karl 12

Noble
Thought there was some revealing data found here regarding a 'reality check' on just how many people actually report their UFO sightings (I know I didn't) and when it comes to military/civilian pilots there's always been serious concerns about under reporting bias due to fear of ridicule, perceived competence, job security etc.


"Airlines don't like to employ people who see strange things"

Dr. Richard Haines, Ames NASA Research Center - Chief of the Space Human Factors Office.



After the Robertson panel led to the implementation of the JANAP 146 directive which basically made the reporting of UFOs to the American public an 'act of espionage' then suppose fines of up to ten thousand dollars (and/or one to ten years in prison) also deterred quite a few pilots from discussing their experience.

Over the years there's been some truly revealing UFO surveys and polls conducted on professionals in the aviation industry (including this one involving 1000 radar operators) but did think there was a really relevant report below concerning 'under reporting bias' from NARCAP's Ted Roe.



Report (PDF File):

Aviation Safety in America: Under-Reporting Bias of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena and Recommended Solutions.

bt608ed912.jpg



"We didn't say anything. We figured nobody would believe us."
Charter Pilot



"Upon return to my domicile, JFK, I reported our sighting to the proper authorities. I was shortly visited by two federal investigators who evidently thought I was hallucinating for one of them stated he had seen spaceships while fishing in Great South Bay and was quite obviously trying to prove that I was a loony."
Captain, Pan Am (ret.)



"It must have been Huge! We were all due back at JFK about the same time two days later so I waited in the crew ready room to talk to them. None of them wanted to talk! They were afraid management would take them off of flying status and have them tested for booze and drugs. The story never came out!"
Flight Engineer, TWA (ret.)



"a group of lights in the air appeared at our 12o'clock position. I called departure control and asked them if they had any traffic in that area. When they came back and said NO, what do you see, I said no, just checking. For at that time when a pilot reported seeing a UFO he was in a lot of trouble."
Captain, Ozark Airlines (ret.)



"I, and Flight crew saw something (in broad daylight) that did things that no known aircraft could do without killing any living thing inside. I will only give sketchy details to protect the privacy of the rest of the crew. If you are interested, and all information (is) kept anonymous, contact me. I will not present myself for public ridicule."
Captain, NW (ret.)

Technical Report - PDF File


• Sticking with NARCAP also thought this was a pretty awesome interview with Dr. Richard F. Haines.



"You must remember that I was privy to the project files. These contained hundreds of official reports of UFO encounters made by military personnel from all branches of the service. They were all classified with a high degree of security classification. Almost all of these made pretty scary reading from the verbatim descriptions of the pilots concerned"

Albert M. Chop, Air Force UFO Public Information Officer at the Pentagon[/size]

List



The Pentagon's Al Chop also pops up in the vid below but there's a good section on pilot UFO under-reporting featuring NICAP's Richard Hall and NARCAP's Richard Haines found around 10:30.




UFOs Reported By Airline Pilots - The Real Reason Why Pilots Don't Talk
 

karl 12

Noble
Thought another good example of the mindset discussed above can be found in this interview with pilot Graham Bethune - apparently the crew of a U.S. Navy C-54 aircraft witnessed a disc shaped UFO over the Atlantic Ocean and a Naval Commander on board refused to look at it because he 'didn't believe in such things'.




'Whatever you do don't tell anybody thay we saw a flying saucer because they'll probably lock us up when we land.'





Guess we'll never know the true numbers on just how often pilots encounter UFOs but looks like witness intimidation could also be a factor and below are a few cases involving claims of 'do not to discuss'.





• Three disc shaped objects confirmed on radar and witnessed close range by pilot flying Piper PA-24 aircraft.



This is a case where the witness reports that he has been repeatedly intimidated by unidentified people probably from a foreign country.

Thread






• Three disc shaped objects confirmed on radar and witnessed close range by two RAF pilots in Meteor jet aircraft.

Upon landing both pilots separated, isolated and ordered not to discuss - debriefed next morning by plains clothes officer (records of official investigation now missing).

From 4:30



Continued:








• Close range pilot UFO encounter where a yellow, oval shaped object flew just off the left wing of a Piper Arrow aircraft.

Pilot detained and interrogated for over three hours by five men in suits who tried to make him sign a document stating that he would never disclose details of his UFO sighting to the public.

See 59:10






Links:


Some great forwarding links in this first file:

Pilot Sightings - (PDF File)
The UFO Evidence - Section V - PILOTS & AVIATION EXPERTS
NARACAP Aircraft Survey Project (PDF File)
The 'True' Report on Flying Saucers.
 
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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Congrats @karl 12 That's another very good dig.

I was just looking where to stick this short video. These two Navy pilots who has seen Tick-Tack UFO had been extensively debriefed by media. But either I missed it, or the media missed it, but I noticed this the first time. These two pilots agreed that in that area "UFOs are seen every day" which means hundreds of sightings per year. Hundreds of sightings per year in just an area puts UFOs in a whole new level of credibility.



Another very important thing said in that interview was when pilot Frevor re-confirmed when the journalist specifically asked him, that UFO disappeared in front of his eyes and other pilot confirmed that disappearance. That disappearance thing is something acceptable in General Relativity as a wormhole. And I have a small collection of these wormholes like disappearances.

As a side note, I watched another video interview by a sailor who was stationed at Guam. He didn't say there were hundreds of sightings per year, but a substantial number and that the most of the personnel was aware of UFOs.

Since both of these areas were at sea and both were in flying zones restricted by the military, I am wondering if UFOs are attracted to the military, for some reason. Or is it merely a coincidence, and UFOs are observed in these areas because somebody (military) is active there all the time.
 
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1963

Noble
Hi Karl, hope you are well mi viejo amigo. :Thumbsup: ... I see that while I was away you have continued your habit of creating brilliant threads here matey. ... The Carlos Antonio de los Santos Montiel 'triple escort' case is just about as fascinating as ufology gets. .. [I was scared just reading and watching the video about it. lol] ... but i'm pleased to say that "not all UFO sightings by pilots over Mexico are so terrifying as that one... such as this much more recent incident that I just found at NARCAP from about 18 months ago....



UFO recorded by Pilot. Cockpit footage. With independent NARCAP report | Latest UFO sightings (latest-ufo-sightings.net)

... And before you say it, I know that McGaha, Shermer et al will declare that this pilot with 19 years experience including 10 years of military flight experience has 'mistaken this thing he saw for a UFO' .. "when he was certainly just seeing Venus!"... and that the likes of Mick West or Tim Printy will waffle on for hours and two or three illustrated essays 'prooooving that he was just filming the after-burners of an f-something-or-other' "but was too unsophisticated to know it!" [snigger, snigger!] ... but you already know my views on that sort of 'identified-by-proclamation-BS' and that I believe that there isn't any better qualifications for identifying something that is 'unknown' [or even ... exotic] in the sky than an experienced pilot and his crew.
And though the actual video doesn't thrill all that much, just listening at the accompanying enthusiastic commentary coming from a well seasoned pilot and the surety that he was witnessing a truly anomalous flying object is enough for me to believe that I have just seen a 100% genuine UFO right there on film. ... Rather underwhelming bit of pulsating light it may have been... but a legitimate UFO nevertheless. :Thumbsup: ... what do you reckon mate?

Cheers Buddy.
 

Rick Hunter

Celestial
If I was in the military or a professional pilot then no way in hell would I report a UFO to my superiors unless I had no choice. I just don't see any good coming out of that and the probability of a whole lot of bad. I suppose it would be different if it was a mass sighting (Bentwaters) or I was sent to intercept it (Tehran). But, as far as me just having a one off encounter, my lips are sealed.
 

wwkirk

Divine
If I was in the military or a professional pilot then no way in hell would I report a UFO to my superiors unless I had no choice. I just don't see any good coming out of that and the probability of a whole lot of bad. I suppose it would be different if it was a mass sighting (Bentwaters) or I was sent to intercept it (Tehran). But, as far as me just having a one off encounter, my lips are sealed.
Apart from ETs, are some UFOs terrestrial tech? If so, doesn't the brass need to know about them?
 

Rick Hunter

Celestial
Well, if it appeared to be something man-made then yes absolutely. I was referring to encountering something unquestionably ET, which didn't seem to be an actual threat.
 

karl 12

Noble
Appreciate the posts and good to be back. :)

Know most folks on here will already be aware of it but thought this 1954 aircraft case involving three silver, saucer-shaped objects approaching an aircraft was a relevant one (and quite similar to the Little Rissington and Carlos Montiel cases).

Apparently the objects 'had a bun on top and a bun on the bottom' and as the pilot mentions in the telephone interview, he was bound by the Official Secrets Act from discussing his experience with the public.


See 24:30





During the period 1952 to 1957 there were a series of UFO sightings involving the military, which forced the MOD to rethink and then reverse its policy. These included sightings during Operation Mainbrace in September 1952 (including those at RAF Topcliffe), the West Malling incident on 3 November 1953, Flight Lieutenant Salandin’s near-collision with a UFO on 14 October 1954, the Lakenheath/Bentwaters radar/visual sightings on 13 and 14 August 1956 and the RAF West Freugh incident on 4 April 1957.[/size]

link 1 / 2

Cheers.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Appreciate the posts and good to be back. :)

Know most folks on here will already be aware of it but thought this 1954 aircraft case involving three silver, saucer-shaped objects approaching an aircraft was a relevant one (and quite similar to the Little Rissington and Carlos Montiel cases).

Apparently the objects 'had a bun on top and a bun on the bottom' and as the pilot mentions in the telephone interview, he was bound by the Official Secrets Act from discussing his experience with the public.

See 24:30



Cheers.


This book I found today would be a perfect compliment to the above video:

 

karl 12

Noble
This book I found today would be a perfect compliment to the above video:

Thanks for the heads up Dejan and that book looks to be a very interesting one - when it comes to the hierarchical set up of British UFO research then I've read that Nick Pope's AIRSEC2A group was right at the bottom of the list but PIAR Act documents from the 1960s do exist showing that the 'Provost And Security Service' played a important role in UFO investigation (likewise the 'DI55 department').

As for the thread subject did see this article involving claims that at least 100 pilots (and 60 soldiers) were 'silenced over UFO testimony' - Italian translation for full article found in link.



“UFO: GEN. MARCELLETTI -- 100 PILOTS’ TESTIMONIES SILENCED

At least one hundred Italian pilots, some sixty soldiers and forty civilians, have been eyewitnesses in these years of UFO sightings but have been silenced by commands or flight directions with more threats or less veiled with retaliation. This was reported by General Salvatore Marcelletti, until 1972 a military pilot serving in the Italian air force and for the next twenty years driving civilian aircraft. .

Link



Also looks like these pilots were ordered to keep quiet and had to laugh when I saw the 'down with censorship' article had been removed (another link sourced below).



Multiple pilots witness UFOs (and told to keep quiet):


..Two other American Airlines crews, flying in the vicinity, were alerted by radio. They saw the UFO's too.

Three United Air Lines planes were plying the airways in that sky neighborhood that night. They had no contact with Captain Killian or the other American Airlines crews. But they, too, saw and privately reported three UFO's.

All this might have come out in a public debate. But then, abruptly, Captain Killian stopped arguing. In a statement to NICAP, his wife said that American airlines had been instructed by the Air Force to muzzle him. As of mid-1964, he was still forbidden to say anything more in public about that strange night in 1959.

DOWN DOWN DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP
By Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe



This pilot was also.told to 'cool it' and there are also claims of missing UFO photographs and witness reports.



At 38,000 feet last May he spotted a large object with a tube-like shape floating off his right wing. Doubting that any equipment we know could be pressureized and certificated to occupy that section of airspace, he deviated slightly from his air lane to take a closer look.

His co-pilot and flight engineer both observed it. It was dusk and he advised the passengers to look out the right window and take pictures if they had cameras.

His flight engineer took a Polaroid out of his flight bag and got three shots, slightly blurred, but obviously showing something red, hovering, with a projection or hump underneath it.

When they landed at the destination airport, the captain took the names of passengers who admitted seeing the object and collected a fourth roll of undeveloped film from one of them with a promise to return it. He then went to his dispatcher, wrote a report by hand of the circumstances and attached the film and the pictures to it.

He has never heard from his company.The dispatcher advised he turned everything over to the airline office that evening. The dispatcher was transferred to another city, and repeated calls to the airline are all answered with the denial that anyone has EVER received the report with pictures.

The captain was told that he could file another report and was advised that the airline had more than 150 UFO sighting reports on file and that he should "cool it."


link

Cheers
 

karl 12

Noble
Hi Karl, hope you are well mi viejo amigo.


Long time no see my friend and seasons greetings to you and everyone else - thanks for sharing that vid and will certainly take a look at that NARCAP report - also couldn't agree more about Carlos Antonio de los Santos Montiel and the other individuals you mentioned.

Did recently see this short vid sourced by Alfred over at RealTVUFOs and it shows Dutch KLM Pilot Mark Juch describing his UFO encounter - also brought up is pilot fear of ridicule and unemployment.





Dutch KLM Pilot Mark Juch shares his UFO (UAP) close encounter. He has been silent for more than two decades but finally speaks out about his UFO sighting.

Cheers!
 

karl 12

Noble
If I was in the military or a professional pilot then no way in hell would I report a UFO to my superiors unless I had no choice.

I just don't see any good coming out of that and the probability of a whole lot of bad.


Appreciate the post Rick and can't say I wouldn't do the same - Dr James E. McDonald describes the '$10, 000 fine and/or 10 years in prison' government penalty imposed on pilots in this vid (so looks like submitting a UFO report was pretty serious business).




Cheers.
 

karl 12

Noble
..are some UFOs terrestrial tech? If so, doesn't the brass need to know about them?


Always been a fan of the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis mate but guess we might never know.

Lots of missing UFO evidence though and some photos (allegedly) confiscated in this aircraft case from Australia.



Australian Airliner Buzzed By Disc - Photos Confiscated


Control Tower/Pilot Tapes - UFO photographs confiscated?
Australia, 1965:


Near Townsville, North Queensland, Australia, May 28, 1965

An Australian Ansett-A.N.A. airliner en route from Brisbane to Port Moresby in the early morning of May 28, 1965, was paced by a UFO and the pilot reportedly obtained photographs which were confiscated by the Australian government. Although the Department of Civil Aviation disclaims any knowledge of the incident, NICAP's informant, a public official in North Queensland, obtained the report directly from an aviation official involved in the sighting.

At about 3:25 a.m. on the morning of May 28, an Ansett--A.N.A. DC-6B (call sign VH-INH) was in the vicinity of Bougainville Reef. The pilot reported to the Townsville Ground Control Tower that he was being buzzed by a UFO - a flattened sphere with apparent exhaust gases coming from it. Other members of the crew also saw the UFO and the pilot took photographs of it. The object paced the aircraft for 10 to 15 minutes, then raced ahead of the aircraft at terrific speed and disappeared.

According to NICAP's informant, the pilot was instructed not to have the films developed in New Guinea. Instead he flew back to Brisbane and was flown from there to Canberra where the film was confiscated and the pilot instructed not to talk about the sighting. Tapes of the pilot's conversation with the control tower about the sighting were also confiscated.

NICAP Report - Section III - Vehicle Pacings and Encounters

Cheers.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
It would be quite interesting if some of our American members can pin point that specific legislation that threatens pilots with $10,000 fine and/or 10 years prison sentence. That would be quite a nice red flag to shut down UFO debunkers.
 

karl 12

Noble
It would be quite interesting if some of our American members can pin point that specific legislation that threatens pilots with $10,000 fine and/or 10 years prison sentence.


Hi mate can't find the specific link at the mo but there's a relevant letter in the archives below from Major Donald Keyhoe to President Harry Truman regarding the legal regulations (AFR 200-2 and JANAP 146) that 'officially invokes espionage laws in relation to both military and civilian pilots reporting UFOs'.



3rd February 1959:

"One of our aims is to expose frauds; another is to convince the press and public that this is a serious problem despite the ridicule...caused by the official debunking policy, which is now used to obscure the concerned and intensive investigation of Air Force and other agencies," or "There is a mass of evidence supporting our claims as to UFO reality and official censorship.."

Journal of UFO History - A Publication of the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives


Do seem to remember John Greenewald Junior bringing it up in this presentation but will find more info.




Cheers.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Hi mate can't find the specific link at the mo but there's a relevant letter in the archives below from Major Donald Keyhoe to President Harry Truman regarding the legal regulations (AFR 200-2 and JANAP 146) that 'officially invokes espionage laws in relation to both military and civilian pilots reporting UFOs'.






Do seem to remember John Greenewald Junior bringing it up in this presentation but will find more info.




Cheers.


Uhhh, finding that legislation would be such a sledgehammer for all the debates with debunkers and deniers.

Maybe pilots themselves can tell about it?
 

karl 12

Noble
Yes mate, don't know if the penalty is still enforced but there's some other relevant info below.


"There is a [military] publication called JANAP 146E that has a section that says you will not reveal any information regarding the UFO phenomenon under penalty of $10,000 fine and ten years in jail. So the secret has been kept."

Lieutenant Frederick Fox



Lots of links taken down these days but this excerpt comes from Richard Dolan´s (great) book ´UFOs and the National Security State´:



10 years inprisonment / $10,000 fine.

On February 13th (1954), Jim G. Lucas of Scripps Howard reported that representatives of major airlines were planning to meet in Los Angleles with intelligence officers of the Military Air Transport Service.
The purpose was to speed up UFO reporting procedures. Lucas wrote that airline pilots were reporting large numbers of UFOs during their flights and were now being asked "not to discuss their sightings publicly or give them to newspapers".
Lucas had accurate information. On February 17th 1954 ,officers of the Military Transport Intelligence met with officials of the Airline Pilots Union at the Roosevelt Hotel in Hollywood.
The goal of the meeting was to implement JANAP 146,specifically to arrange for pilots to radio UFO reports to the nearest airport and make no public statements about them.
Violations brought prison terms of up to ten years and/or a fine of $10,000.


Scripps Howards papers followed up on February 23rd to report that
"the nation´s 8,500 commercial airline pilot have been seeing a lot of unusual objects while flying at night, here and overseas".
It confirmed that plans for a detailed reporting system were agreed upon to enable the air force to investigate UFOs quickly.
Each airline had an internal security specialist to meet with the Air Force.



Incidentally there's some revealing info about confidential JANAP 146E reports in that last posted John Greenewald Junior video (around 13:00) which describes how all the UFO reports lead back to NORAD.

Cheers.
 

karl 12

Noble
Relevant thread article below about airlines prohibiting pilots from going public and also some interesting testimony taken from the NOUFORS audio collection involving three disc shaped objects being photographed by a military jet's gun camera.


Audio Link



Article:


Passenger Plane Sightings

Statistics show that across the world UFO sightings occur at a rate of around one every two or three minutes. Not surprising then that pilots of commercial airliners should be high on the list of people to have most witnessed them. It is a fact that ever since the beginning of flight and commercial aviation strange craft or disk shaped objects have proved the bafflement of many a professional pilot. In many cases the sightings have been witnessed by the entire crew and passengers - literally hundreds of separate witnesses to each individual incident.

In the early days of commercial aviation these sightings proved something of a novelty. Pilots and air crew were happy to recount their experiences to any one who would listen. Gradually however this openness began to disappear. Airlines became increasingly sensitive to these issues, some even going as far as to prohibit their pilots from talking publicly of their sightings.[/size]

Link
 
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