Why Buddhism is truth?
- Thread starter Olivia Glad
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OK, Not taking sides at all, and the Wikipedia is hardly Cite seer I know, but...
A short google search reveals the following quotes...
So according to this it seems Nivek is right by arguably more or less ten centuries?
I guess the obvious thing now is if you have a source that proves otherwise and can predate any of this, post away.
Oh and Olivia, I really respect you and I started out to post you and ask. How do I break this shitty western cycle I am stuck in and hate so much, and embrace Buddhism and be a better person.
But in my googling I got side tracked.
The Rigveda is an ancient Indian collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns. It is one of the four canonical sacred texts of Hinduism known as the Vedas. The text is a collection of 1,028 hymns and 10,600 verses, organized into ten books (Mandalas). A good deal of the language is still obscure and many hymns as a consequence are unintelligible.
.................
Rigveda is one of the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language. Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, most likely between c. 1500 and 1200 BC— though a wider approximation of c. 1700–1100 BC has also been given. The initial codification of the Rigveda took place during the early Kuru kingdom (c. 1200 – c. 900 BCE).
AND
Buddhist Scriptures: Buddhist Bark Texts Found
Says...
The British Library / University of Washington Early Buddhist Manuscripts Project was founded in September 1996 in order to promote the study, editing, and publication of a unique collection of fifty-seven fragments of Buddhist manuscripts on birch bark scrolls, written in the Kharosthi script and the Gandhari (Prakrit) language that were acquired by the British Library in 1994. The manuscripts date from, most likely, the first century A.D., and as such are the oldest surviving Buddhist texts, which promise to provide unprecedented insights into the early history of Buddhism in north India and in central and east Asia.
A short google search reveals the following quotes...
So according to this it seems Nivek is right by arguably more or less ten centuries?
I guess the obvious thing now is if you have a source that proves otherwise and can predate any of this, post away.
Oh and Olivia, I really respect you and I started out to post you and ask. How do I break this shitty western cycle I am stuck in and hate so much, and embrace Buddhism and be a better person.
But in my googling I got side tracked.
The Rigveda is an ancient Indian collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns. It is one of the four canonical sacred texts of Hinduism known as the Vedas. The text is a collection of 1,028 hymns and 10,600 verses, organized into ten books (Mandalas). A good deal of the language is still obscure and many hymns as a consequence are unintelligible.
.................
Rigveda is one of the oldest extant texts in any Indo-European language. Philological and linguistic evidence indicate that the Rigveda was composed in the north-western region of the Indian subcontinent, most likely between c. 1500 and 1200 BC— though a wider approximation of c. 1700–1100 BC has also been given. The initial codification of the Rigveda took place during the early Kuru kingdom (c. 1200 – c. 900 BCE).
AND
Buddhist Scriptures: Buddhist Bark Texts Found
Says...
The British Library / University of Washington Early Buddhist Manuscripts Project was founded in September 1996 in order to promote the study, editing, and publication of a unique collection of fifty-seven fragments of Buddhist manuscripts on birch bark scrolls, written in the Kharosthi script and the Gandhari (Prakrit) language that were acquired by the British Library in 1994. The manuscripts date from, most likely, the first century A.D., and as such are the oldest surviving Buddhist texts, which promise to provide unprecedented insights into the early history of Buddhism in north India and in central and east Asia.
nivek
As Above So Below
Here is an interesting read, for the full article click the link...
The Buddha was every Inch a Hindu
Orientalists had started treating Buddhism as a separate religion because they discovered it outside India, without any conspicuous link with India, where Buddhism was not in evidence. At first, they didn’t even know that the Buddha had been an Indian. It had at any rate gone through centuries of development unrelated to anything happening in India at the same time.
There were only Hindus, members of Hindu castes, some of whom had veneration for the Buddha among others.
Buddhist buildings in India often follow the designs of Vedic habitat ecology or Vastu Shastra. Buddhist temple conventions follow an established Hindu pattern. Buddhist mantras, also outside India, follow the pattern of Vedic mantras.
When Buddhism spread to China and Japan, Buddhist monks took the Vedic gods (e.g. the twelve Adityas) with them and built temples for them. In Japan, every town has a temple for the river-goddess Benzaiten, i.e. “Saraswati Devi”, the goddess Saraswati. She was not introduced there by wily Brahmins, but by Buddhists.
The Buddha was every inch a Hindu.
The Buddha was every Inch a Hindu
Orientalists had started treating Buddhism as a separate religion because they discovered it outside India, without any conspicuous link with India, where Buddhism was not in evidence. At first, they didn’t even know that the Buddha had been an Indian. It had at any rate gone through centuries of development unrelated to anything happening in India at the same time.
There were only Hindus, members of Hindu castes, some of whom had veneration for the Buddha among others.
Buddhist buildings in India often follow the designs of Vedic habitat ecology or Vastu Shastra. Buddhist temple conventions follow an established Hindu pattern. Buddhist mantras, also outside India, follow the pattern of Vedic mantras.
When Buddhism spread to China and Japan, Buddhist monks took the Vedic gods (e.g. the twelve Adityas) with them and built temples for them. In Japan, every town has a temple for the river-goddess Benzaiten, i.e. “Saraswati Devi”, the goddess Saraswati. She was not introduced there by wily Brahmins, but by Buddhists.
The Buddha was every inch a Hindu.
Olivia Glad
Honorable
I know that you are a person with some insights into Buddhism.Western culture has destroyed all of your people's spiritual world.it's really sad. But I'm happy about you.
Olivia Glad
Honorable
The Buddha was every inch a Hindu.
[/QUOTE]
Your understanding is wrong.
The Buddha showed us to Buddhism, not Hinduism
[/QUOTE]
Your understanding is wrong.
The Buddha showed us to Buddhism, not Hinduism
nivek
As Above So Below
Your understanding is wrong.
The Buddha showed us to Buddhism, not Hinduism[/QUOTE]
Those were not my words but a quote from the article...
Buddha showed how he became his true self, nothing more, Buddhism was created by man, as was Hinduism and every other religion of the world...
Olivia Glad
Honorable
Unlike many other religions, Buddhism does not believe in a soul that is a unique entity. Instead, Buddhists recognize the reincarnation or emanation of masters or great teachers by signs associated with birth, objects the young child appears to be familiar with, or other indications throughout life
Kchoo
At Peace.
Wow. This is amazingly close to what I have been arriving at in my own explorations...
Correct my if I am wrong, but my understanding has always been that Buddhist believe in rebirth, not reincarnation. The two terms are really not that interchangeable. Although most people don't bother considering the difference.
Reincarnation is a Hindu-Tibetan belief in the transmigration of the soul of a person after death to another body. This means that:
Reincarnation indicates the continuity of the individual’s person after death.
Rebirth, is the Buddhist belief in the continuity of life tendencies for Karma - from one life to another. This means that:
Rebirth indicates the continuity of the essence of one’s tendencies - not one’s person or individuality - after death.
The concept of reincarnation does not fit within the Buddhist Law of Impermanence, which teaches that one’s current self is transient, and that there is no fixed soul. For this reason most Buddhist schools consider the concept of reincarnation as an expression of a futile desire for immortality of the ego (or lesser) self:
Differences between Rebirth and Reincarnation
Reincarnation is a Hindu-Tibetan belief in the transmigration of the soul of a person after death to another body. This means that:
Reincarnation indicates the continuity of the individual’s person after death.
Rebirth, is the Buddhist belief in the continuity of life tendencies for Karma - from one life to another. This means that:
Rebirth indicates the continuity of the essence of one’s tendencies - not one’s person or individuality - after death.
The concept of reincarnation does not fit within the Buddhist Law of Impermanence, which teaches that one’s current self is transient, and that there is no fixed soul. For this reason most Buddhist schools consider the concept of reincarnation as an expression of a futile desire for immortality of the ego (or lesser) self:
Differences between Rebirth and Reincarnation
nivek
As Above So Below
This is incorrect and deflects the points we were discussing...
CasualBystander
Celestial
People always reinvent the wheel.
Different numbers of spokes, different diameters, different materials, different rim shapes, etc.
Reinventing the wheel is an occupational hazard of being human.
You want to lower wheel mass in vehicles because lower wheel mass means a better ride, better acceleration, etc.
The downside of alloy wheels is they fail by cracking. Steel wheels if you do manage somehow to apply tremendous force just bend a little. And you can generally fix that with a hammer.
nivek
As Above So Below
Gibberish...
Olivia Glad
Honorable
Think a lot more about Buddhism.
Kchoo
At Peace.
Lol
Kchoo
At Peace.
Well, according to
The Buddha Myth | Buddha as Fiction
"According to tradition, the founder of Buddhism was a Hindu named Siddhattha, son of the rajah of the Sakyan clan which dwelt in the foothills of the Himalayas. He is sometimes referred to as a Sakyamuni (muni meaning Sage), sometimes as Tathagata (literally "One who has come, or gone, This Far"), more usually as Gotama Buddha. The term Buddha is a title, not a personal name. Gotama is referred to as the Buddha after his Enlightenment, which is reputed to have occurred in 528 B.C. in Bihar. Thereafter he abandoned family life and promulgated his doctrine of deliverance from suffering and attainment of ultimate peace, Nirvana."
. . .
So anyway, what is the point that you are trying to make Nivek?
The Buddha Myth | Buddha as Fiction
"According to tradition, the founder of Buddhism was a Hindu named Siddhattha, son of the rajah of the Sakyan clan which dwelt in the foothills of the Himalayas. He is sometimes referred to as a Sakyamuni (muni meaning Sage), sometimes as Tathagata (literally "One who has come, or gone, This Far"), more usually as Gotama Buddha. The term Buddha is a title, not a personal name. Gotama is referred to as the Buddha after his Enlightenment, which is reputed to have occurred in 528 B.C. in Bihar. Thereafter he abandoned family life and promulgated his doctrine of deliverance from suffering and attainment of ultimate peace, Nirvana."
. . .
So anyway, what is the point that you are trying to make Nivek?
Kchoo
At Peace.
The path is not laid down... markers point the way at the fork in the road and one must choose....
I have only read a handful of HH's books. I have listened to him talk whenever I can. In my opinion he is the wisest man on earth. And one of the two people I would have most like to meet on earth. But the one take home striking thing that gets me every time I read his words, or hear him talk, is his humility. If he were here now, participating in this conversation, I would bet London to a Brick that he would not side with any of us. He would scratch his head thoughtfully and consider carefully what each of you think. The thing I love the most about Buddhism is its tolerance for others views, and the flexibility to embrace everyone. Something in my opinion very lacking in modern Christianity. You are all arguing about something there is likely no real concrete answers too. I suspect from reading your posts there was no concrete line in the sand that separated Buddhist from Hindu from Christian even back in the beginning. I have seen comparisons between them all in this discussion, with shared and similar values. Maybe Buddha in his learning process didn't even have a name for what he taught. maybe he had snippets of Christianity, Hindu, and goodness knows what else. And only many years later do we call it Buddhism, as a retrospective label after centuries of evolution of the philosophy that originated from Buddha.
I guess what I m saying is you are arguing about a Label for a philosophy, when the label at the time probably did not exist. Surely the things the Buddha learned over his life time came about first, and then years..decades,,centuries? later we label it Buddhism. I bet he didn't wake up and say, "Hmm I might go sit under a tree and invent a religion, and on this day I call it Buddhism"
I guess what I m saying is you are arguing about a Label for a philosophy, when the label at the time probably did not exist. Surely the things the Buddha learned over his life time came about first, and then years..decades,,centuries? later we label it Buddhism. I bet he didn't wake up and say, "Hmm I might go sit under a tree and invent a religion, and on this day I call it Buddhism"
Olivia Glad
Honorable
Kisagotami and her dead child
Kisa Gotami lived in Savatthi. She was known as Kisa Gotami because of her slim body. She married a rich young man and a son was born to them. The son died when he was a toddler and Kisa Gotami was stricken with grief. Carrying her dead son, she went everywhere asking for medicine to restore her son to life. People thought she had gone mad. But a wise man seeing her pathetic condition, decided to send her to the Buddha.
He advised her: "Sister, the Buddha is the person you should approach. He has the medicine you want. Go to him."
Thus she went to the Buddha and asked him to give her the medicine that would restore her dead son to life. The Buddha told her to get some mustard seeds from a home where there had been no death. Overjoyed at the prospect of having her son restored to life, Kisa Gotami ran from house to house, begging for some mustard seeds. Everyone was willing to help but she could not find a single home where death had not occurred. The people were only too willing to part with their mustard seeds, but they could not claim to have not lost a dear one in death. As the day dragged on, she realised hers was not the only family that had faced death and that there were more people dead than living. As soon as she realised this, her attitude towards her dead son changed; she was no longer attached to the dead body of her son and she realised how simply the Buddha had taught her a most important lesson: that everything that is born must eventually die.
She buried her dead son and told the Buddha that she could find no family where death had not occurred. Then the Buddha said: "Gotami, you should not think that you are the only one who has lost a son. As you have now realised, death comes to all beings. Before their desires are satiated death takes them away."
Perceiving the fleeting nature and impermanency of life, Kisa Gotami decided to renounce the worldly life. She requested the Enlightened One to admit her to the Order of bhikkhunis. Accordingly, the Buddha sent her to the community of nuns where she was admitted as Bhikkhuni Kisa Gotami.
She was hardworking and always mindful and conscientious of her religious duties, and strove diligently for her spiritual development to purify her mind of all mental defilements.
One night, she lighted some oil lamps and sat down a short distance away. Then she started looking at the flames. She noticed while some flames flared up, others flickered out. With her mind concentrating on the flames, she meditated as follows: "Even as it is with these flames, so also is it with living beings in this world: Some flare up, while others flicker out; only those who have attained Nibbana are no longer seen."
The Buddha through his supernormal power, saw Kisa Gotami from the Jetavana Monastery. He sent forth his radiance and exhorted her to continue meditating on the impermanent nature of all component things. The Buddha also commented: "One who lives a hundred years without perceiving the Deathless State; a life of one day is better if one has perceived the Deathless State." (Dhammapada 114)
After the discourse, Kisa Gotami attained Arahanthoo
Kisa Gotami lived in Savatthi. She was known as Kisa Gotami because of her slim body. She married a rich young man and a son was born to them. The son died when he was a toddler and Kisa Gotami was stricken with grief. Carrying her dead son, she went everywhere asking for medicine to restore her son to life. People thought she had gone mad. But a wise man seeing her pathetic condition, decided to send her to the Buddha.
He advised her: "Sister, the Buddha is the person you should approach. He has the medicine you want. Go to him."
Thus she went to the Buddha and asked him to give her the medicine that would restore her dead son to life. The Buddha told her to get some mustard seeds from a home where there had been no death. Overjoyed at the prospect of having her son restored to life, Kisa Gotami ran from house to house, begging for some mustard seeds. Everyone was willing to help but she could not find a single home where death had not occurred. The people were only too willing to part with their mustard seeds, but they could not claim to have not lost a dear one in death. As the day dragged on, she realised hers was not the only family that had faced death and that there were more people dead than living. As soon as she realised this, her attitude towards her dead son changed; she was no longer attached to the dead body of her son and she realised how simply the Buddha had taught her a most important lesson: that everything that is born must eventually die.
She buried her dead son and told the Buddha that she could find no family where death had not occurred. Then the Buddha said: "Gotami, you should not think that you are the only one who has lost a son. As you have now realised, death comes to all beings. Before their desires are satiated death takes them away."
Perceiving the fleeting nature and impermanency of life, Kisa Gotami decided to renounce the worldly life. She requested the Enlightened One to admit her to the Order of bhikkhunis. Accordingly, the Buddha sent her to the community of nuns where she was admitted as Bhikkhuni Kisa Gotami.
She was hardworking and always mindful and conscientious of her religious duties, and strove diligently for her spiritual development to purify her mind of all mental defilements.
One night, she lighted some oil lamps and sat down a short distance away. Then she started looking at the flames. She noticed while some flames flared up, others flickered out. With her mind concentrating on the flames, she meditated as follows: "Even as it is with these flames, so also is it with living beings in this world: Some flare up, while others flicker out; only those who have attained Nibbana are no longer seen."
The Buddha through his supernormal power, saw Kisa Gotami from the Jetavana Monastery. He sent forth his radiance and exhorted her to continue meditating on the impermanent nature of all component things. The Buddha also commented: "One who lives a hundred years without perceiving the Deathless State; a life of one day is better if one has perceived the Deathless State." (Dhammapada 114)
After the discourse, Kisa Gotami attained Arahanthoo