Latest on Bob Lazar

The other day, I came across what I found to be quite an illuminating podcast by Stuart Robbins (Exposing PseudoAstronomy no. 133, June 2, 2015), debunking Lazar's claims regarding Element 115 (ununpentium), which Lazar claimed was the power source for the captured ET spacecraft that he saw.

Exposing PseudoAstronomy Podcast - Shownotes Episode 133

transcript: Exposing PseudoAstronomy Podcast - Shownotes Episode 133
Thanks for posting that. I read the transcript, and it's a good piece.

I've never understood why anyone thought the "discovery" of 115 was some kind of vindication for Lazar and his BS. Anyone who has looked a periodic chart within, oh, I dunno, the last hundred years maybe, will know there are some vacant boxes for elements not yet known. So some guy who turns out to be full of shit about anything that can be checked makes wild claims about 115. Years later, the element is finally synthesized and found to be nothing like what he claimed. As the site owner put it, the mere existence of 115 says absolutely nothing about those claims. The actual properties of 115 tell us everything we need to know about those claims, if we are too dense to figure it out from everything else the guy said.

Several authors over the years have pointed out that all of Lazar's tapestry of nonsense seems to be based on speculation that was current in the informal literature on various topics in the late 80s. The whole silly mess is so bleeding obvious!
 

SOUL-DRIFTER

Life Long Researcher
Thanks for posting that. I read the transcript, and it's a good piece.

I've never understood why anyone thought the "discovery" of 115 was some kind of vindication for Lazar and his BS. Anyone who has looked a periodic chart within, oh, I dunno, the last hundred years maybe, will know there are some vacant boxes for elements not yet known. So some guy who turns out to be full of shit about anything that can be checked makes wild claims about 115. Years later, the element is finally synthesized and found to be nothing like what he claimed. As the site owner put it, the mere existence of 115 says absolutely nothing about those claims. The actual properties of 115 tell us everything we need to know about those claims, if we are too dense to figure it out from everything else the guy said.

Several authors over the years have pointed out that all of Lazar's tapestry of nonsense seems to be based on speculation that was current in the informal literature on various topics in the late 80s. The whole silly mess is so bleeding obvious!
Agree.
If by the slightest chance he is later proven to be genuine...
It would be most troublesome to say the least....
 
Thanks for posting that. I read the transcript, and it's a good piece.

I've never understood why anyone thought the "discovery" of 115 was some kind of vindication for Lazar and his BS. Anyone who has looked a periodic chart within, oh, I dunno, the last hundred years maybe, will know there are some vacant boxes for elements not yet known. So some guy who turns out to be full of shit about anything that can be checked makes wild claims about 115. Years later, the element is finally synthesized and found to be nothing like what he claimed. As the site owner put it, the mere existence of 115 says absolutely nothing about those claims. The actual properties of 115 tell us everything we need to know about those claims, if we are too dense to figure it out from everything else the guy said.

Several authors over the years have pointed out that all of Lazar's tapestry of nonsense seems to be based on speculation that was current in the informal literature on various topics in the late 80s. The whole silly mess is so bleeding obvious!
Clearly Lazar is a hoaxer, his fake credential claims are enough to prove that. And nobody with his pubic records of credit problems and bankruptcies would get an extremely sensitive security clearance.

But I'm also really tired of people making false statements about Moscovium, aka element 115. For example, from the transcript:

“But beyond that, with so far every point I’ve addressed contradicting his story other than the element’s mere existence, we have the stability problem. Ununpentium is near one predicted island of stability, between copernicium and flerovium, elements 112 and 114. But the known isotopes are not stable. And the predicted maximum stability of the most stable version, ununpentium-291, is only seconds.”

No that’s wrong. According to the macro-microscopic nuclear model used by the world’s leading superheavy elements research facility – the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research (JINR) in Dubna, Russia (which is how element 115 got the name Moscovium), the center of the island of stability is around the doubly magic nuclear number Z = 114 and N = 184, so the most stable isotope of element 115 is probably Moscovium-299, not 291.

And according to the research director of the JINR, Dr. Yuri Oganessian, who’s widely considered to be the world’s leading researcher on this subject, isotopes near the center of the island of stability could have half-lives on the order of thousands or even millions of years:

“It was natural to extend this approach to the region of nuclei with Z ≥ 104, where, according to the droplet model, nuclei may not exist. A formal calculation led to unexpected results. It turned out that in the deformed nucleus with mass 270 (Z = 108 and N = 162) a fission barrier occurs, which leads to an increase in its half-life to seconds (instead of 10-19 sec). But even higher stability appears in heavier (superheavy) nuclei with proton number Z = 114 and a large number of neutrons N = 184. Here the strong effect of new nuclear shells works, similarly to the shells Z = 82 and N = 126 in the «doubly magic» spherical nucleus 208Pb. Some new calculations indicate that on the map of nucleiheavyweights form a large enough area, called the «Island of Stability» of superheavy elements (see Fig.1). In the region where the liquid-drop model predicted that the nuclei should decay within 10-19 sec, now the half-lives of «long-lived» nuclei at the peak of the island of stability are expected to reach thousands and even millions of years! (see, for example, review [5]).”
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/337/1/012005/pdf

He also makes this absurd statement in that transcript:

“Beyond that, the only other parts of this to mention are everything he claims about using it for propulsion. Like, if you bombard it with protons it makes antimatter. Which makes no sense because he claimed that you had to input material, to get antimatter, which produces energy when it reacts with matter. Simple conservation of mass and energy means you get absolutely NOTHING out of this. You spend a proton, you get an anti-proton, you react with a proton, you get energy exactly equal to the mass-energy of the particles that went into it. Everything is conserved. You get nothing out of it.”

For some reason this guy thinks that you “get nothing out of it” if you’re not increasing the mass-energy content of the universe, i.e., violating the conservation of energy (and perhaps the conservation of baryon number along the way). That’s stupid. We’re talking about a portable energy source, not violating the laws of physics. So here’s the deal:

Sometimes nuclei spontaneously decay by emitting the antimatter equivalent of an electron – a positron. If you collide that positron with an electron, then all of their rest mass gets converted into energy, which you can use to do stuff. So if you could make 1 gram of antimatter through some nuclear decay process, and let it interact with 1 gram of matter, you would liberate 1.8 x 10^21 ergs of energy, or 1.8 x 10^14 joules; the equivalent of a 42.96 kiloton nuclear warhead going off (but in a controlled fashion of course, and I’m neglecting the energy lost to neutrino production for simplicity). That’s a larger yield than the Fat Man and Little Boy bombs we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, combined. And you got all that energy for the low-low price of two grams of fuel. We don’t know of a more efficient energy production method than this. Matter-antimatter annihilation is the most efficient energy source known to modern physics.

However, I don’t see how the metastable isotopes of Moscovium could be a useful source of antimatter, as Lazar claims. Lots of nuclei decay through positron emission, but very little of the mass of each nucleus goes into it, and the rest is just very energetic waste product, so it’s not an efficient concept. In fact you get more kinetic energy and high-energy photons from the by-products of ordinary nuclear decay processes, which is why we use radioisotope fuel cells to power long-term space probes like the Pioneer spacecraft.

In my view Lazar’s story was debunked decades ago. But people shouldn’t be making false scientific arguments just to keep beating a dead horse.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I wonder why George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell are giving the fraud so much spotlight lately...ugh

...
 

spacecase0

earth human
I wonder why George Knaap and Jeremy Corbell are giving the fraud so much spotlight lately...ugh

...
Art Bell would actually care if things were correct, he would end an interview if he figured out that he was being lied to. He was actually trying to find truth and share it with everyone.

George did this for about the first 2 weeks, then he changed the show to a variety show (what he claims it is now). he also lost lots of listeners in doing so.
so, my guess is that anyone popular, entertaining, and willing to show up on the air is going to get interviewed
 
I wonder why George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell are giving the fraud so much spotlight lately...ugh
...
It's very, very disappointing. My read on that question is that Corbell saw an opening to exploit the renewed interest in UFOs following the AATIP story in the New York Times, and Bob Lazar was an obvious choice because his story also connected UFOs with a secret government project (and I'm sure the fact that Lazar's story is complete BS wasn't even a factor Corbell's decision to exploit this topic for personal gain, just like every other shameless self-promoting hack who has plagued this field for decades).

With Corbell bringing Lazar back into limelight, George Knapp got dragged into it simply by association. I assume that what happened with Knapp is that he got too close to the story to back out without getting egg on his face, so even after he realized that he'd been conned, he felt like he had to prevaricate about it, viz "well I could never confirm any of his academic claims, but he did have his name in the LANL phone book (as a low-grade tech working for the contractor Kirk Meyer), so maybe his entire flagrantly bogus story could be true after all," like that.

I like George Knapp. But god dammit it's disappointing that he won't just fess up and admit that Lazar snowed him.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
It's very, very disappointing. My read on that question is that Corbell saw an opening to exploit the renewed interest in UFOs following the AATIP story in the New York Times, and Bob Lazar was an obvious choice because his story also connected UFOs with a secret government project (and I'm sure the fact that Lazar's story is complete BS wasn't even a factor Corbell's decision to exploit this topic for personal gain, just like every other shameless self-promoting hack who has plagued this field for decades).

With Corbell bringing Lazar back into limelight, George Knapp got dragged into it simply by association. I assume that what happened with Knapp is that he got too close to the story to back out without getting egg on his face, so even after he realized that he'd been conned, he felt like he had to prevaricate about it, viz "well I could never confirm any of his academic claims, but he did have his name in the LANL phone book (as a low-grade tech working for the contractor Kirk Meyer), so maybe his entire flagrantly bogus story could be true after all," like that.

I like George Knapp. But god dammit it's disappointing that he won't just fess up and admit that Lazar snowed him.

I've subtly had my say on twitter on the fraud lazar and the displeasure of seeing him hyped up again, one comment I received that keeps popping back up in my mind is "he never changed his story" so it must be true...b008

...
 

wwkirk

Divine
What do any of you think of the theory that Bob Lazar really worked at Area 51 and really saw strange things, but that it was disinformation and staged scenes?
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Bob Lazar, Area 51 & the FBI
red pill junkie

(A paragraph from the link)

The federal agents explained to Lazar they were specifically looking for paperwork related to the purchase of potential toxic materials by one of Lazar’s clients from 2 years ago; but in several radio interviews both Corbell and Lazar had implied the “real” reason behind the raid and the radio surveillance was because the government might have been looking for the small sample of element 115 Lazar managed to ‘smuggle out’ of the S-4 hangar where the government was keeping the recovered flying saucers he and his co-workers were studying. A claim that seems far-fetched to the extreme if we vet it against the rest of the information Lazar has provided over the years: Supposedly the security measures at S-4 were so extreme no-one was allowed to go to the bathroom without an armed escort, and all the people working there were not allowed to talk to anyone who wasn’t part of their own division, and yet we’re supposed to believe Lazar was able to steal a piece of what would be the most valuable and exotic material in the planet like it was an office stapler?

.
 
What do any of you think of the theory that Bob Lazar really worked at Area 51 and really saw strange things, but that it was disinformation and staged scenes?
That theory might have some traction...if Lazar hadn't lied like a rug about his educational background. But since he did lie - and even now keeps lying about it - he has sacrificed any benefit of the doubt.

I like Boyd Bushman's theory about this. Boyd's interpretation goes like this:

Lazar was some low-level tech at LANL (and there are lots of indications of this), and his weaselly ways caught the attention of some government security people who were looking for a shifty cut-out for an operation they wanted to do. Between his article in the newspaper about his flashy rocket car, and I assume that he lied about his credentials to other scientists at LANL just like he's been lying to the public his entire life, his warped personality profile would make him ideally suited for the intelligence operation they wanted to conduct.

Boyd thought that military research scientists deep in some black program had discovered a very useful property of element 115. But they couldn't share their findings with other military research scientists because of the security compartmentalization of black programs. This is where the government security people come in, and devise a way to get the hint out to other government research scientists by burying it within a highly sensational story about aliens and UFOs and Area 51: the crazy UFO stuff would assure massive distribution and visibility of the story, and within the story were enough accurate details about hiring procedures and security processes that insiders would see that this wasn't just some wild fantasy - people within the military security apparatus must be involved. That clue would get them digging into the story for the "payload" of real and important information. In this case, that payload was basically: "take a close look at the stable isotopes of element 115 because it has valuable military research applications."

So in Boyd's view, the whole story was scripted by military intelligence people who needed some shady attention-seeking ego-maniac to tell the story to the public, and Lazar was the perfect candidate. In this interpretation, Lazar may have been shown a few things on the base (or at least walked through a bunch of key details), but he never worked at Area 51 as a scientist, and he was a willing participant in the operation because it provided him with the aura of an actual scientist (without being one) while providing him with a lifetime of modest financial comfort, perhaps through shell companies owned by the intelligence community making purchases from his company.

I don't know if Boyd's interpretation is correct, but it seems to fit all the data I know about better than any other interpretation I've heard.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I've heard someone else say something similar to this about Billy Meier, I can't remember who it was...

Untitled.png
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I like Boyd Bushman's theory about this.

So do I, it seems to rationally fit lazar's "weaselly ways" lol...

Boyd's interpretation goes like this:

Lazar was some low-level tech at LANL (and there are lots of indications of this), and his weaselly ways caught the attention of some government security people who were looking for a shifty cut-out for an operation they wanted to do. Between his article in the newspaper about his flashy rocket car, and I assume that he lied about his credentials to other scientists at LANL just like he's been lying to the public his entire life, his warped personality profile would make him ideally suited for the intelligence operation they wanted to conduct.

Boyd thought that military research scientists deep in some black program had discovered a very useful property of element 115. But they couldn't share their findings with other military research scientists because of the security compartmentalization of black programs. This is where the government security people come in, and devise a way to get the hint out to other government research scientists by burying it within a highly sensational story about aliens and UFOs and Area 51: the crazy UFO stuff would assure massive distribution and visibility of the story, and within the story were enough accurate details about hiring procedures and security processes that insiders would see that this wasn't just some wild fantasy - people within the military security apparatus must be involved. That clue would get them digging into the story for the "payload" of real and important information. In this case, that payload was basically: "take a close look at the stable isotopes of element 115 because it has valuable military research applications."

So in Boyd's view, the whole story was scripted by military intelligence people who needed some shady attention-seeking ego-maniac to tell the story to the public, and Lazar was the perfect candidate. In this interpretation, Lazar may have been shown a few things on the base (or at least walked through a bunch of key details), but he never worked at Area 51 as a scientist, and he was a willing participant in the operation because it provided him with the aura of an actual scientist (without being one) while providing him with a lifetime of modest financial comfort, perhaps through shell companies owned by the intelligence community making purchases from his company.

I don't know if Boyd's interpretation is correct, but it seems to fit all the data I know about better than any other interpretation I've heard.
 

CasualBystander

Celestial
If someone's story doesn't hold up under close analysis, there is a true story that is something else.

The point being that if Bob was at Area 51 but doesn't have the science credentials you are getting a flunky's interpretation of what he overheard.

What was actually said, what he understood, and what he is telling you are three different things.
 
The point being that if Bob was at Area 51 but doesn't have the science credentials you are getting a flunky's interpretation of what he overheard.

What was actually said, what he understood, and what he is telling you are three different things.
We know now (no thanks to Las Vegas "investigative reporter" Knapp) that Lazar was a small time Las Vegas con artist and itinerant entrepreneur who didn't pay has bills and had a fairly radioactive paper trail that would have prevented any kind of high level clearance. At least I pray to any god within range that would be the case with a character like that. I've read, from credible sources, that getting a speeding ticket can get you booted off "the Ranch". They don't let flakes or shady characters on the place at all, for any reason. The FBI (not TV reporters) checks the background of anyone being considered for a security clearance. I would bet money he has never been past the gate at Area 51.

The simplest explanation is he was going for a big con. The part I've never been able to figure out is Knapp's behavior. Say you are a local TV reporter with a good following and a reputation for tracking down tough stories and bringing important things to light. I don't know how well this describes the pre-Lazar Knapp, but it's the generally accepted story. So you are a local reporter in a good size market, looking to break into the big time. They all are, so that's a given. You get wind of a physicist who works at Area 51, and he claims he's worked on captured flying saucers. You talk to the guy and he seems convincing. His story is Earth shaking, if it's true. You have to know that if it's real, you will be a national hero for bringing the story to the world. You also just have to know that if it's bogus, you might very well end up a laughingstock. An unemployed laughingstock.

Knapp lived and worked in Las Vegas. That's where Lazar lived and worked. It's the county seat. Knapp couldn't be arsed to make a trip down to the courthouse to check this guy out? It's astounding. This "physicist" claimed to have degrees from MIT and Caltech. Two phone calls to vet a professional scientist. Stan Friedman spent the half hour or so it took in the days before the internet to check some basic facts. I'm sure Knapp had an assistant or two available to do such things if he was too busy himself. Like the whole shitshow, this aspect just doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure George Knapp had some very trying moments when the whole story began to unravel. Like Lazar, he didn't have very many choices at that point. He appears to have done the same as Lazar, and stuck with his story. As far as I can tell, it does not seem to have harmed his career.
 

CasualBystander

Celestial
While I am no expert on the Lazar cult, of the theories I've read, Tom Mahood's reconstruction seems to be the most plausible explanation for key elements of the hoax narrative, including Lazar taking people to see aerial phenomena at Groom Lake, and later evidence of hostility towards Lazar by federal security personnel.

Looking at the Bob Lazar story from the perspective of 2018

At the risk of repeating myself:

The point being that if Bob was at Area 51 but doesn't have the science credentials you are getting a flunky's interpretation of what he overheard.

What was actually said, what he understood, and what he is telling you are three different things.

But the link raises questions about why a "secret" facility would be firing proton cannons into the sky.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I don't know if this was posted yet...

 
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