To The Stars Academy: Investigating the Unexplained

nivek

As Above So Below
Here's a write up in response to the badly written Kloor article:

AATIP, Elizondo and biased Journalism: Asking Real Questions

An article written by Keith Kloor for the Intercept was released recently. The title of which you would openly consider as being true blue conspiracy if you didn’t think it was written by a professional journalist.

‘THE MEDIA LOVES THIS UFO EXPERT WHO SAYS HE WORKED FOR AN OBSCURE PENTAGON PROGRAM. DID HE?’

Some hardened TTSA hating conspiracy theorists jumped on this straight away without thinking. Their opening gambit: Elizondo is a fraud, TTSA are a shambles. Conspiracy is rife within Ufology, even some elements of journalism. Unverifiable claims that are severely contradicted by very open and obvious evidence. Some less hostile folk have said it is about asking questions.

To be fair they’re right, it is about asking questions and not following blind faith in conjecture or speculation. We can all agree that asking questions of the spokesmen and women for the Department of Defense (DOD) officially clarifies their important position on various issues. The UFO issue is a vital one in that regard, as an everyday blogger not even remotely connected to any government, I can see this for myself. We can agree that a unified position on any given topic is an important part of the ‘spokespersons’ role at the DOD.

Yet, we see alarming inconsistencies which need to be addressed (..and will be, I’m told…).

How is it we saw varying statements on the acronym terminology of ‘AATIP’, where Aviation was mistakenly used instead of Aerospace? Or varying statements on whether AATIP studied Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon? Most recently, how spokesperson Mr. Sherwood directly stated their position (Pentagon) on whether Luis Elizondo worked for a ‘UFO program’ or for AATIP at all. Mr. Sherwood is the spokesperson who recently conformed that AATIP studied UAP. The same person recently stated he couldn’t confirm or deny Elizondo worked at AATIP (contradicting Dana White’s 2017 position).

Let’s be clear, these are interesting questions. However, they are interesting as there is a wealth of contradictions across the board. In each contrasting statement from the DOD we see heavily opposing data, documents and testimony from high ranking officials. It is enough to make us step back and wonder what is going on? How can this be?. The honest truth, maybe it is difficult to make decisive conclusions based on the given single source spokesperson’s statements. Yet, this is exactly what we have just witnessed from the article in the Intercept.
…there is one crucial detail missing from “Unidentified,” as well as from all the many stories that have quoted Elizondo since he outed himself nearly two years ago to a wide-eyed news media: There is no discernible evidence that he ever worked for a government UFO program, much less led one.
-Keith Kloor, writing in the Intercept, 2019

The premise of Mr.Kloor’s article is based around there being ‘no discernible evidence’ to suggest Luis Elizondo worked for AATIP. An amazing claim to make. Let’s break this down, firstly the spokesperson quoted (Sherwood) by Kloor couldn’t verify what another previous spokesperson (Dana White) had released via the Bryan Bender, Politico (and others) article back in December, 2017.

Secondly, there is an abundance of evidence to suggest Elizondo worked for AATIP. The confirmation via spokesperson Dana White for one (who is ironically quoted by Keith Kloor himself in his own article). The testimony of Senator Harry Reid (who actually created the AATIP program), the testimony of Eric Davis (a physicist with AATIP), Hal Puthoff (AATIP physicist) also verified his position and has reached out to Alejandro Rojas;
Via email Dr. Hall Puthoff says he thinks the @theintercept article was a hit piece. He writes: “Documentation otherwise is dense. I reported to him often in the Pentagon as an AATIP contractor.
– Hal Puthoff, 2019 via Alejandro Rojas

Then we have the official verified resignation letter of Luis Elizondo that states he was involved with UAPs during his time at DOD. We have the redacted attachment (soon to be made unclassified) made available to George Knapp that has been witnessed by George and Bryan Bender with Luis Elizondo’s name under AATIP. Chris Mellon plus Steve Justice have vouched for Luis Elizondo in his role. Then we have the NYT and Politico journalists who were shown documents of his employment as AATIP Director.

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Redacted AATIP list which reportedly contains Luis Elizondo

Any Ufologist worth his or her salt has knowledge of this information. This isn’t some grand conspiracy to defraud everyone. Bryan Bender took to social media to call out the article’s claims;
There is plenty of evidence and testimony to support Mr. Elizondo’s role in the effort. You either ignored it or couldn’t find it or didn’t try. And it seems your sources had a very partial picture.
…Seems they whoever he called didn’t know much either or didn’t try to learn. A spokesperson saying they can’t verify something does not mean it didn’t happen. Especially in the Pentagon

-Bryan Bender on Social Media responding directly to Mr. Kloor

It is very clear that there is a lot of contradiction in Sherwood’s statement with regard to Luis Elizondo and AATIP. It is alarming that Kieth Kloor concluded that there is no evidence. It is no surprise that John Greenewald backed these claims having previously been debunked on the last 3 claims regarding AATIP. Aviation was in fact Aerospace, the DD1910 documents were genuine and proved the DOD authorised the release of the 3 videos, and AATIP studied UAP/UFOs. Sadly this pattern goes beyond ‘asking difficult questions’. This pattern possibly suggests extreme, thinly disguised bias which is on full view. Concluding on limited data is poor journalism and poor researching, unless of course the truth is yours to manipulate.

I would ask people to send FOIAs, to ask why the contradictions, to seek real answers.

Yes, we should ask questions of the spokesperson and of the author in search of real truth.

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Let them grill them for now. I think its ok we get these questions, someone has to ask them and hold their feet to the fire. If its not true, it will come to no end and we end up getting more validation.
 

Standingstones

Celestial
Ever since the ‘Tic-Tac’ business broke I have been on the fence about AATIP. I would like to see a some credible evidence about the UFO situation. I feel there have been a few hiccups along the way, however. Something in my gut makes me reluctant to believe the whole story that’s being presented.

If this turns out to be another story like Roswell Alien babies, the UFO field will lose what little credibility it has and you might as well set the dial back to zero.
 

APIGuy

Independent Field Investigator
Here's a write up in response to the badly written Kloor article:


Then we have the official verified resignation letter of Luis Elizondo that states he was involved with UAPs during his time at DOD. We have the redacted attachment (soon to be made unclassified) made available to George Knapp that has been witnessed by George and Bryan Bender with Luis Elizondo’s name under AATIP. Chris Mellon plus Steve Justice have vouched for Luis Elizondo in his role. Then we have the NYT and Politico journalists who were shown documents of his employment as AATIP Director.

.

I'm confused - if it's classified, what are uncleared journalists doing with it? Someone must have committed a massive security violation.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
What a 'journalist' (cough), it's amazing...What's he doing writing ufo related articles?...



...
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Finian Handley criticizes the ideas that this is just mistakes, secret craft or psy op:



Only skimmed this admittedly.

Simply going on the videos we've seen and what we've heard so far the UFOs that the Navy encountered starting in 2004 up until very recently, the incidents that caused them to rewrite the reporting procedures, occurred close to the coasts of the United States in designated training areas and interacted with vessels on training missions. Deliberately unarmed vessels and aircraft on training missions. I don't think any of that is in dispute. So the UFOs have an affinity for this condition and unless there are some similar videos forthcoming they don't seem to be bothering the other fully armed and alert carrier groups that are deployed in various hot zones elsewhere in the world.

Two odd things I heard in the Nimitz incident:

  • How did the tic-tac know where Fravor's CAP point was? This reminds me of Gabe Valdez and several tribal officers chasing a weird light moving in unusual ways that knew just what they were doing until they switched to a Native American language which stymied them. I think that was in Greg Valdez's Dulce Base.
  • If true, why did there happen to be to Air Force officers aboard to take any evidence into custody? I thought it was mentioned on Unexplained that the pilot's themselves somehow provided the video we have seen - which I find questionable at best and may have that wrong.

If it were a test of some radical new device you wouldn't expect them to admit it outright. Testing it on live friendly aircraft seems a stretch but it's as real world as you'll get without risking the loss of a new device in unfriendly territory. Most other secret test aircraft in the past have been mistaken for UFOs because they are doing something thought to be impossible at the time.

I've also been wondering about the craft that Bennewitz saw at Kirtland and Monzano, the speculation about laser propulsion systems and the general outcome of the work Leik Myrabo did years ago. A couple of generations of technology in those arenas might produce some interesting results. Ideas sometimes have to wait until other developments take place, both technical and political - like the atomic bomb.

Just throwing this out there to chew on.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
 
What a 'journalist' (cough), it's amazing...What's he doing writing ufo related articles?...



...


When you read his past articles on UFOs and his recent tweets, you can see pretty clearly how he personally thinks about the UFO subject or TTSA.
 
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Theres apparently these "leaked e-mails" going on now in the twitter and reddit. Id be careful with this kind of stuff, no one seems to know where these came from and why. Could be fakes. Rerun of the MJ-12 papers thing?
 
Indeed. Then again if Luis Elizondo lying and not who he claims he is, like some people claim, why hasnt the government just said "this man is not who he claims and he lies"? They could just come out and say that. Why is he not arrested for fraud? Instead they just sit by for months to years and watch him make media appearances? Sometimes you just have to wonder, is this some sort of operation in progress?

Id like to know how Dr. Davis supposedly came about with that suppsoed "crash" information, id think something like that would be highly classified. Unless someone has shown green light for all of this for some reason? After 70 years of denials...? Really, why now? Maybe its just rumors he heard there, and he believes them? Maybe hes being misled?
 
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APIGuy

Independent Field Investigator
Only skimmed this admittedly.


  • If true, why did there happen to be to Air Force officers aboard to take any evidence into custody? I thought it was mentioned on Unexplained that the pilot's themselves somehow provided the video we have seen - which I find questionable at best and may have that wrong.


Just throwing this out there to chew on.

My understanding is that this is controversial (who were these guys, what did they take), relying as it does on 14 year old memories. What is said to have been taken was data from the E2 and the radard, not the FLIR video.
 

APIGuy

Independent Field Investigator
Indeed. Then again if Luis Elizondo lying and not who he claims he is, like some people claim, why hasnt the government just said "this man is not who he claims and he lies"? They could just come out and say that. Why is he not arrested for fraud?

That is what Kloor is claiming - he spoke to an official in DoD who looked into it, and found that Elizondo was never in charge of AATIP. Perhaps he just never had the formal portfolio, because they were trying to kill the program. Anyway, it should be easy to falsify Kloor's claims.

As for fraud charges, what prosecuting authority would be interested? No one has the resources to prosecute everyone who lies about their resume, even if that is a crime, which I doubt.
 

Standingstones

Celestial
Indeed. Then again if Luis Elizondo lying and not who he claims he is, like some people claim, why hasnt the government just said "this man is not who he claims and he lies"? They could just come out and say that. Why is he not arrested for fraud? Instead they just sit by for months to years and watch him make media appearances? Sometimes you just have to wonder, is this some sort of operation in progress?

Id like to know how Dr. Davis supposedly came about with that suppsoed "crash" information, id think something like that would be highly classified. Unless someone has shown green light for all of this for some reason? After 70 years of denials...? Really, why now? Maybe its just rumors he heard there, and he believes them? Maybe hes being misled?
Look, the UFO field is littered with shady characters. Go to the UFO Watchdog website for a laundry list of them. Who is going to spend their precious time tracking down all these people? Elizondo is probably more honest than most. I find it is best to be ultra cautious when anyone makes claims about their UFO resume.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
 

nivek

As Above So Below
 

nivek

As Above So Below
That is what Kloor is claiming - he spoke to an official in DoD who looked into it, and found that Elizondo was never in charge of AATIP. Perhaps he just never had the formal portfolio, because they were trying to kill the program. Anyway, it should be easy to falsify Kloor's claims.

It appears we may be seeing more information soon putting that absurd write up of Kloor's in the trash bin where it belongs...

D8PluK5XYAAfHyF.jpeg
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Another similar comment of more information coming from the editor of The War Zone...

 
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