To The Stars Academy: Investigating the Unexplained

Joe Rogan Experience had David Fravor on it, it was pretty intresting.



David said hes spoken to government officials about this, and one meeting that was supposed to last only 20 minutes got extended to hour and a half.
 
I’m sitting on the fence concerning TTSA. Would I like to see real evidence? Of course. The problem is TTSA is dangling the bait but we can’t hook the fish just yet. It’s been three year since TTSA has formed
Two years. They formed in Oct 2017.

I do like that the Navy calls this UAP (unidentified aerial phenomena.) The connotation is that UFO makes people think of aliens. The Navy wants to stay clear of that.

UFO was coined as a replacement for Flying Saucer to get away from implying aliens.
I predict that eventually UAP will become imbued with the connotation of alien.
I think we need to stop pretending that the prospect of alien technology visiting our planet is some wildly improbable notion. That was a marginally viable stance in the 1940s, but now we know for a fact that our galaxy is the home to at least 2-4 billion Earth-like worlds orbiting in the habitable zone of Sun-like stars, and the average age of these worlds is 2-3 billion years older than our planet. And we now understand the theoretical physics of gravitational field propulsion that permits FTL travel between stars...and the performance characteristics of UFOs match the predicted characteristics of that form of propulsion perfectly.

So given the status of contemporary academic science, we should be expecting advanced alien civilizations to navigate our airspace from time to time. At this point the only objection I can see to the ETH is based on purely religious grounds - people who take the Bible literally and think that mankind stands alone as God's crowning achievement. But there's no scientific or logical reason to object to the ETH anymore.

Maybe we should redefine UAP as "Unearthly Alien Planes" and stop apologizing for arriving at the most logical and scientific explanation for the origin and nature of these devices.
 
One of the things I always liked about Stan Friedman was his forthright insistence on using the term flying saucers. It was long out of fashion decades ago, but he was not big on political correctness in terminology. He started investigating flying saucer reports in the 50s and saw no need to pussyfoot around when discussing them.
 
So given the status of contemporary academic science, we should be expecting advanced alien civilizations to navigate our airspace from time to time. At this point the only objection I can see to the ETH is based on purely religious grounds - people who take the Bible literally and think that mankind stands alone as God's crowning achievement. But there's no scientific or logical reason to object to the ETH anymore.

They can still.

People ive seen on youtube, reddit, twitter, newspaper comment sections etc, if they cant explain this as hoaxes, mistakes, hallucinations or natural phenomena, whats the next step: Super secret military technology. It comes up every time.

And the most common reason given: Its still more likely than aliens.
 
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One of the things I always liked about Stan Friedman was his forthright insistence on using the term flying saucers. It was long out of fashion decades ago, but he was not big on political correctness in terminology. He started investigating flying saucer reports in the 50s and saw no need to pussyfoot around when discussing them.
Stanton Friedman was a brilliant scientific mind and logician - plus he had a delightful wit.

He used to say "we have to stop being 'apologist ufologists,'" and I've taken that to heart because he's right - the longer we act like we're talking about some fringey/improbable/paranormal issue, then people will keep perceiving it that way.

They can still.

People ive seen on youtube, reddit, twitter, newspaper comment sections etc, if they cant explain this as hoaxes, mistakes, hallucinations or natural phenomena, whats the next step: Super secret military technology. It comes up every time.

And the most common reason given: Its still more likely than aliens.
I considered that to be the most likely explanation as well, in the beginning. But after studying physics and peeking through every keyhole of the military R&D complex that I could find, for forty years, it's now crystal clear to me that the chances of any secret organization developing an applied general relativity technology to maturity by 1947 when these reports really started to become common, just isn't a credible possibility...a one in a trillion chance is probably a generous estimate.

On the other hand given what we now know about exosolar planets and astrobiology and theoretical physics, we have every reason to be expecting alien technology to drop by for a look around probably at least once or twice per year (and perhaps far more frequently).

So from a historical and scientific vantage point, it's safe to say that the "supersecret project hypothesis" is a totally unsupportable conspiracy theory. It's about as plausible as saying that a secret military program developed Star Trek transporter systems by 1947, and they've managed to keep it all 100% leak-free for over 70 years. It's not a rational, logical argument - unlike the ETH, there's no credible corroborating evidence for it.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
I’d hope by now it would be considered fair to say that the majority of UFO reports can be explained and that some small percentage remain anomalous.

These are views distorted by prejudice. Official, scientifically derived, figures for statistical significance of unexplained cases are very high, 21% and 25%. There were two professional studies funded by governments of US and France. US study, with a team of 4-5 people was lead by astronomer Alan Hynek. French study, known as GEPAN, was lead by physicist Dr Claud Poher. Both studies came up with farely similar ball park figure for statistical significance unexplaine of cases, between 20-25%.

It is important that, in science, anything below statistical significance of 5% is considered as a random noise. But 20% is four times higher than 5%, so it means that scientifically speaking UFOs are not to be ignored.

It's only that results of these studies were interpreted,not by scientists, but by politicians and civil servants who blended them with mainstream agenda of the day.
 
Joe Rogan Experience had David Fravor on it, it was pretty intresting.



David said hes spoken to government officials about this, and one meeting that was supposed to last only 20 minutes got extended to hour and a half.

A few notes about this fascinating interview:

1.) Jeremy Corbell constantly mentioning the proven fraud Bob Lazar and his bogus physics during this interview sullies the entire interview. Lazar never got any degrees from MIT or CalTech – this is an empirical fact as detailed in The Lazar Timeline. Also, the Mexican FLIR footage was oil rig burn-off; this was studied and proven – the configuration of the oil burn-off towers in the distance and the lights in that footage match perfectly.

2.) Cmdr. Fravor’s explanation of the Tic-Tac footage was excellent and exciting; finally we have somebody who knows this system describing what we’re seeing (it only took two years to get this essential clarification). But he’s demonstrably wrong about the Gimbal footage –that entire clip is in infrared mode, which anybody can see by looking at the top center of the screen: the WSO simply switched from “white = hot” mode to “black = hot” mode, so the alleged “aura” appears to be nothing more than an artifact of those systems when they register a heat signature and it bleaches out the surrounding pixels.

3.) Apparently Jeremy Corbell has been reading my facebook comments, because he clearly grasps the key point that AAVs are not employing the reaction propulsion principle that all human aircraft depend upon – they’re using a gravitational field propulsion system. But he keeps saying “non-reactionary” rather than “non-reaction,” which is an embarrassing misnomer (“reactionary” refers to far-right-wing politics, not physics). Get your terms right in the future, Jeremy. And stop tainting important and totally unrelated interviews with Bob Lazar’s garbage.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
These are views distorted by prejudice. Official, scientifically derived, figures for statistical significance of unexplained cases are very high, 21% and 25%. There were two professional studies funded by governments of US and France. US study, with a team of 4-5 people was lead by astronomer Alan Hynek. French study, known as GEPAN, was lead by physicist Dr Claud Poher. Both studies came up with farely similar ball park figure for statistical significance unexplaine of cases, between 20-25%.

It is important that, in science, anything below statistical significance of 5% is considered as a random noise. But 20% is four times higher than 5%, so it means that scientifically speaking UFOs are not to be ignored.

It's only that results of these studies were interpreted,not by scientists, but by politicians and civil servants who blended them with mainstream agenda of the day.

Just a question of how you set your personal filter. You can provide a statistic to prove or disprove whatever you want. That's why I stuck with 'majority' rather than put a number on it.
 
So from a historical and scientific vantage point, it's safe to say that the "supersecret project hypothesis" is a totally unsupportable conspiracy theory. It's about as plausible as saying that a secret military program developed Star Trek transporter systems by 1947, and they've managed to keep it all 100% leak-free for over 70 years. It's not a rational, logical argument - unlike the ETH, there's no credible corroborating evidence for it.

It sounds good in theory, on paper, but it doesnt make that much sense when you really sit down and start thinking about it and comparing it to the bigger picture and history of ufology. Deep Prasad and couple of other people who are into science and physics have pointed out what kind of leap this would be to achieve, even now. To think somebody came up with this in the 40s or earlier... no... just no.

I find it funny that people say the government is not competent enough to hide aliens from us or reverse engineering anything from them, but when it comes to building and hiding something like this, now all of a sudden theyre super competent of course.

Also if we take some landing tales into count, I recall that theres one from my country that describes an UFO landing in Karjala and beings coming out, from the beginning of the 20th century. Theres likely more like that from other countries, including my own. And the first plane was flown in 19o3, does that seem right to you? So it seems to go further back than the 50s or 40s, and at that point theres no excuse you could give me that could make me think these are human made. Unless some hidden human civilization has lived parallel to us and developed its own tech, which i dont believe because there isnt a shred of proof.
 
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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
I think we need to stop pretending that the prospect of alien technology visiting our planet is some wildly improbable notion. That was a marginally viable stance in the 1940s, but now we know for a fact that our galaxy is the home to at least 2-4 billion Earth-like worlds orbiting in the habitable zone of Sun-like stars, and the average age of these worlds is 2-3 billion years older than our planet.

This is the key point here. I was saying the same thing for very long time.

What we are actually wittnessing is an irrational social phenomena on huge scale. Akin to that fable "Emperor's New Clothes".

Never mind general public and media, but since late 40's there was a preponderance of scientific and technical data sufficient for every scientist or engineer to accept UFOs as an highly probable everyday thing.

But such is huge fear of peer pressure and being cast out as "loony", that even professionals were afraid to think rationally, without feeling that they are sticking their necks out.

That is a huge missed opportunity because we could had spent more effort acquiring UFO technology for our own benefit. We lost at least 50 years.
 
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Among the many treasures to be found at Saturday Night Uforia is a collection of articles and speculations about early human research into high speed aircraft. Specifically, one of the major hurdles to what we now call hypersonic flight is the simple heating of the aircraft surfaces from friction as air is displaced. At high mach numbers, this heating is intense. The X-15 was developed in part to explore methods for dealing with this aspect of high speed flight. Meetings and discussions that led to the formal consideration of the project that became the X-15 began in the 40s and had their roots in pre-war research. This is the same period during which flying saucers and other odd objects were being reported to fly in our atmosphere at astonishing speeds. We didn't have the technological ability to even approach those speeds for decades to come. Even the tools needed to undertake the research had to be invented. It took a huge amount of research, expensive experiments marred by catastrophes and the lives of many talented pilots to get there. The idea that all of that existed in secret in the 40s is just silly.

Saturday Night Uforia can be found here, for many years to come I hope. It has gone moribund, unfortunately. It is a most excellent site. Take a sandwich.

Saturday Night Uforia: The Real Story Behind The Stories

There is a fine history of the X-15 project, well written and loaded with detail by an engineer, available as a free PDF. Again, not for those with short attention spans. This is about as far into hard core nerd territory as I can sustainably go, but it's well worth reading if you are interested in the topic. When I was growing up, the X-15 was hands down the most badass airplane in the world and the story of how it came to be is interesting in itself. Neil Armstrong flew the X-15 before going to NASA. Joe Engle did too. He used his landing skills gained there to become the only person to manually land a space shuttle years later. The X-15 story is a history of brilliant problem solving and many years of hard work that led to something truly remarkable. Like the early NASA efforts, it was done with slide rules and vacuum tubes along with exotic metal alloys and nerves of steel.

X-15: Extending the Frontiers of Flight

I've posted that link several times, on various forums, and have never gotten a single comment about it as best I can recall. Among other things, it is a prime example of how science is actually done as opposed to how most people seem to think it works.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Joe Rogan Experience had David Fravor on it, it was pretty intresting.



David said hes spoken to government officials about this, and one meeting that was supposed to last only 20 minutes got extended to hour and a half.


That was a great interview/discussion with David Fravor...As Thomas mentioned some excellent details were given, some I may have overlooked previously in my reading of these incidents...I've listened to the David Fravor part of the show twice now, on my third listen right now in the background lol...

...
 

Dean

Adept Dabbler
Joe Rogan Experience had David Fravor on it, it was pretty intresting.


David Fravor is a very impressive witness. It is disappointing, however, that Fravor indulged Jeremy Corbell's tiresome grafting-on of the patched-together, uncorroborated, oft-discredited tall tale of Bob Lazar.

The saga of Bob Lazar is made up of many lies, obvious swiping of earlier material (real and fake), and other artifices. It is no mystery why Lazar and his promoters, especially Corbell, want to claim kinship with persons with earned credibility, such as Fravor. But ultimately that very credibility may suffer by the ill-advised association.

Fravor needs Corbell like an golden eagle needs a gaudy advertising banner in tow.
 
Unless of course, that date doesn't carry the significance you feel it does.
I'm not talking about Roswell; it's pretty common knowledge that there was such a dramatic appearance of unidentified objects over our most sensitive military installations in 1947, the White Sands Missile Proving Ground for example, that the military was prompted to initiate Project Sign in order to study them:
Project Sign - Wikipedia

And sightings of unidentified craft by the public also became a fairly common occurrence at that time, and has remained so:
List of reported UFO sightings - Wikipedia
 

nivek

As Above So Below
David Fravor is a very impressive witness. It is disappointing, however, that Fravor indulged Jeremy Corbell's tiresome grafting-on of the patched-together, uncorroborated, oft-discredited tall tale of Bob Lazar.

The saga of Bob Lazar is made up of many lies, obvious swiping of earlier material (real and fake), and other artifices. It is no mystery why Lazar and his promoters, especially Corbell, want to claim kinship with persons with earned credibility, such as Fravor. But ultimately that very credibility may suffer by the ill-advised association.

Fravor needs Corbell like an golden eagle needs a gaudy advertising banner in tow.

Yeah, Joe Rogan should have had a better match-up of guests that's for sure, Jeremy Corbell was the sour grape of the show, a better guest match for Corbell would be Michael Horn, two peas in a pod there lol...

...
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I'm not talking about Roswell; it's pretty common knowledge that there was such a dramatic appearance of unidentified objects over our most sensitive military installations in 1947, the White Sands Missile Proving Ground for example, that the military was prompted to initiate Project Sign in order to study them:
Project Sign - Wikipedia

And sightings of unidentified craft by the public also became a fairly common occurrence at that time, and has remained so:
List of reported UFO sightings - Wikipedia

Yes, I remember Sign. The answer was ‘oh yeah.....’
So there was Grudge and the answer could be anything but that.
Blue Book was largely a public front.
I don’t think any of them had what we could consider an application of resources appropriate to the topic
 
Theres talk going on that TTSA is involved in publishing the new Lazar book, is there anything to this?

If there is, id say they are playing a very risky game there. Do they specifically consider his story to be entertainment fiction or are they standing behind it? Or is it just Tom, i wouldnt be surprised with him believing it, with all the stuff in Sekret Machines...
 
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nivek

As Above So Below
Theres talk going on that TTSA is involved in publishing the new Lazar book, is there anything to this?

If there is, id say they are playing a very risky game there. Do they specifically consider his story to be entertainment fiction or are they standing behind it? Or is it just Tom, i wouldnt be surprised with him believing it, with all the stuff in Sekret Machines...

I said something about that here, I think its more the TTSA believers than TTSA themselves, surely they know the facts:

Latest on Bob Lazar

...
 
There seems to be some schism between Fravor and the rest of the crewmen who are witnesses, he mentioned theres some stories spun by them about the Nimitz incident that didnt happen. Like the alleged officers who came in and collected the stuff away, according to the others, or the longer video.

So whos telling the truth?
 
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