To The Stars Academy: Investigating the Unexplained

Thomas R. Morrison

Thomas R. Morrison

Meh
Paul Dean said:
Well, Finally here I am.. And I have NO idea what to do.. I want to talk about NORAD, NASIC, FAA, AFSPC, etc, and I'm not sure where that would all even go? What thread?
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Welcome aboard Paul - looking forward to discussing your high-caliber research.

I think the best way to go would be to click on this link:
Science, Tech, & Space Exploration

And then click on the "Post New Thread" button on the upper hand-right corner of the page. That'll open an interface where you can title a new thread and post the content below. You can use the preview button at the bottom of the interface screen to see how it'll look when you hit "Post." And if you see anything that you'd like to edit after that, you can find a little "edit" button at the bottom of your post ;
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
 
Dean

Dean

Adept Dabbler
Regarding Mike Turber and his claims about the Tic Tac, investigator-journalist Tim McMillian yesterday posted a pertinent thread on Twitter. Short version: McMillan communicated directly with Turber, and McMillan found Turber's claims about Turber's sources to be "unreasonable, incoherent, and nonsensical." McMillan concluded that Turber's "claims currently do not present themselves as being legitimate or worthy of further scrutiny."
 

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P

Paul Dean

Adept
ChrisIB said:
You've done a lot of serious FOI stuff, can I ask your interpretation of Edward Snowdon's statement that he looked for UFO files but failed to find anything?
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I'll definitely discuss this very soon. Basically though, Snowden and his slapdash searching is utterly irrelevant though.

1., He definitely wouldn't have had access to the specific records of the USAF and the NORAD that contain hard UFO data. Not so much because of security clearance or the like (in fact a lot of UFO data is classified no higher than SECRET, and I have doctrine that lays that out, as well as letters to researchers from NORAD HQ OI in the 1990s) but simply because the areas of USAF and NORAD Im talking about are internal military systems related to fight safety, pilot interdiction of unknown aircraft, meteorological information, quarterly reports on unsolved scramble-to-object events, even raw radar data in the form of track surges and altitude averaging and all sorts of stuff. Nothing to do with where he looked. He would have stayed on home turf: CIA, NSA and some information warfare areas of USAF and Army.

2. Where he looked has (historically) never contained anything important on UFOs that leads us to believe there is acres more of it; ie he very likely sorted haphazardly through CIA current policy type correspondence files, National Target Priority Action rationale records, basic embassy-to-CIA traffic, or say NSA Staff Studies that get used as NSA input into wider assessments for the Director of Central Intelligence, and so on.

3. Its not unreasonable to assume he didn't actually have infinite time to do any of this. Imagine the terabytes of digital holdings, and the indexes of hard copy records, he would need to painstakingly reveiw, even from just simple and incomplete keyword searches. He'd have to know all the terminology and phraseology for one, and how its changed over time. And all this assumes he was unequivocally getting full access to vast databases, their backups, unpublished records and drafts, etc even in the non-UFOlogical computer systems he was quickly looking at.

The main thing though is Point 1. If he didnt have access to certain in-house air defence records, statistical tabulations, sector directors logs, airborne intercept mission reports, event messages, etc held by a bunch of areas within the USAF and NORAD, then he surely had nothing to go on.

For all we know he did one or two unsuccessful keyword searches in an inappropriate system and then simply walked away.
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Turber is a tick who has attached himself to this.

I've heard him say that his job was to penetrate a facility or organization and obtain whatever it was he was charged with and in the course of doing that he obtained all this information - and a ride on a tic-tac. I've heard him say a corporation would pay him handsomely for those skills. Something tells me his resume won't include any of that.

He sounds like at best he was a low level analyst who picked up enough of the patois to sound credible. He's actually not bad at it, but in this arena it doesn't take much. No doubt there is a segment that'll swallow his stories hook, line and sinker.
 
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ChrisIB

ChrisIB

Honorable
Paul Dean said:
I'll definitely discuss this very soon. Basically though, Snowden and his slapdash searching is utterly irrelevant though.

1., He definitely wouldn't have had access to the specific records of the USAF and the NORAD that contain hard UFO data. Not so much because of security clearance or the like (in fact a lot of UFO data is classified no higher than SECRET, and I have doctrine that lays that out, as well as letters to researchers from NORAD HQ OI in the 1990s) but simply because the areas of USAF and NORAD Im talking about are internal military systems related to fight safety, pilot interdiction of unknown aircraft, meteorological information, quarterly reports on unsolved scramble-to-object events, even raw radar data in the form of track surges and altitude averaging and all sorts of stuff. Nothing to do with where he looked. He would have stayed on home turf: CIA, NSA and some information warfare areas of USAF and Army.

2. Where he looked has (historically) never contained anything important on UFOs that leads us to believe there is acres more of it; ie he very likely sorted haphazardly through CIA current policy type correspondence files, National Target Priority Action rationale records, basic embassy-to-CIA traffic, or say NSA Staff Studies that get used as NSA input into wider assessments for the Director of Central Intelligence, and so on.

3. Its not unreasonable to assume he didn't actually have infinite time to do any of this. Imagine the terabytes of digital holdings, and the indexes of hard copy records, he would need to painstakingly reveiw, even from just simple and incomplete keyword searches. He'd have to know all the terminology and phraseology for one, and how its changed over time. And all this assumes he was unequivocally getting full access to vast databases, their backups, unpublished records and drafts, etc even in the non-UFOlogical computer systems he was quickly looking at.

The main thing though is Point 1. If he didnt have access to certain in-house air defence records, statistical tabulations, sector directors logs, airborne intercept mission reports, event messages, etc held by a bunch of areas within the USAF and NORAD, then he surely had nothing to go on.

For all we know he did one or two unsuccessful keyword searches in an inappropriate system and then simply walked away.
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Bril, thank you. Clarity is a scarcity in this area, sorely needed.
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
Paul Dean said:
I'll definitely discuss this very soon. Basically though, Snowden and his slapdash searching is utterly irrelevant though.

1., He definitely wouldn't have had access to the specific records of the USAF and the NORAD that contain hard UFO data. Not so much because of security clearance or the like (in fact a lot of UFO data is classified no higher than SECRET, and I have doctrine that lays that out, as well as letters to researchers from NORAD HQ OI in the 1990s) but simply because the areas of USAF and NORAD Im talking about are internal military systems related to fight safety, pilot interdiction of unknown aircraft, meteorological information, quarterly reports on unsolved scramble-to-object events, even raw radar data in the form of track surges and altitude averaging and all sorts of stuff. Nothing to do with where he looked. He would have stayed on home turf: CIA, NSA and some information warfare areas of USAF and Army.

2. Where he looked has (historically) never contained anything important on UFOs that leads us to believe there is acres more of it; ie he very likely sorted haphazardly through CIA current policy type correspondence files, National Target Priority Action rationale records, basic embassy-to-CIA traffic, or say NSA Staff Studies that get used as NSA input into wider assessments for the Director of Central Intelligence, and so on.

3. Its not unreasonable to assume he didn't actually have infinite time to do any of this. Imagine the terabytes of digital holdings, and the indexes of hard copy records, he would need to painstakingly reveiw, even from just simple and incomplete keyword searches. He'd have to know all the terminology and phraseology for one, and how its changed over time. And all this assumes he was unequivocally getting full access to vast databases, their backups, unpublished records and drafts, etc even in the non-UFOlogical computer systems he was quickly looking at.

The main thing though is Point 1. If he didnt have access to certain in-house air defence records, statistical tabulations, sector directors logs, airborne intercept mission reports, event messages, etc held by a bunch of areas within the USAF and NORAD, then he surely had nothing to go on.

For all we know he did one or two unsuccessful keyword searches in an inappropriate system and then simply walked away.
Click to expand...

Great points, your last sentence I think may be very true, pressed for time he did some quick searches and came up empty, innocently ignorant of the possibility he was in the wrong system or database for the searches performed...

...
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
Have you seen this:

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.
 
Spaceman spiff

Spaceman spiff

Noble
There seems to be some backpedalling going on, so someone here has not told the entire truth or mixed up things badly. Or is being deliberately obfuscating.

Not that surprising.
 
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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
Yes there is a backpedaling going on, with it seems some lies and denials...

The Pentagon Corrects Record on “Secret UFO Program”
By John Greenewald

The Pentagon has recently opened up to The Black Vault about the rumored “secret UFO Program,” known as the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program or AATIP.

On December 16, 2017, news of this obscure program was first announced by the NY Times and Politico. Both media outlets reported that UFOs- now being referred to as “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena” or UAPs to reduce the stigma surrounding the topic – were the direct focus of this program. However, the Pentagon now seems to have changed their stance.

Claiming they want to correct the record and clear up some inaccuracies, the Pentagon now says AATIP was not a UFO or UAP program.

“Neither AATIP nor AAWSAP were UAP related,” said Pentagon spokesperson Susan Gough in an e-mail to The Black Vault. “The purpose of AATIP was to investigate foreign advanced aerospace weapons system applications with future technology projections over the next 40 years, and to create a center of expertise on advanced aerospace technologies.”

Since 2017, details have been scarce. However, the DoD’s latest position that AATIP wasn’t a UFO program, seems to represent one of their most dramatic about-faces on the issue since the program was first revealed.

The “AAWSAP” Gough refers to is the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program; a contract posted publicly by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) asking for bids from the private sector on August 18, 2008. By the due date of September 5, only one bidder had submitted a proposal, and that was Bigelow Aerospace’s subsidiary known as Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies or BAASS. They were awarded the contract, and according to the NY Times, operated with a $22 million budget. (Note: The Black Vault has not been able to independently verify that budget amount.)

Many researchers, bloggers and journalists within the mainstream media have often confused AATIP and AAWSAP along with the missions of both programs. For example, an anonymous letter by someone claiming to be involved in the project was published by KLAS-TV, and it alleged AAWSAP was studying poltergeists along with other paranormal activity. Another example is a blogger attempting to create a cohesive timeline of the programs, but often confuses dates, facts and figures that have already been established and documented. According to the latest from The Pentagon, none of that is the case as, “[AATIP] was the name of the overall program. [AAWSAP] was the name of the contract that DIA awarded for the production of technical reports under AATIP.”

The titles of those “technical reports” referenced by the Pentagon were released via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to The Black Vault on January 16, 2019; which consisted of a list of thirty-eight documents created under the AATIP program. Mysteriously absent from the topics covered by the Defense Intelligence Reference Documents (DIRDs) was anything directly referencing UFOs or UAPs.

Topics did include some wildly speculative science, ranging from warp drives to invisibility cloaking. However, there was nothing about unidentified objects flying in the sky or captured on video. Some researchers have theorized this list of research topics was simply an exploration on how UFOs may work or how an alien civilization might traverse the cosmos in order to visit Earth. Conversely, some have remained skeptical, and felt this list may be proof that AATIP (and/or AAWSAP) had nothing to do with UFOs, and only focused on pseudoscience.

The skeptics appeared to be proven wrong, when on May 22, 2019, the NY Post ran the headline, “The Pentagon finally admits it investigates UFOs.” At the time this article was published, investigative journalist Steven Greenstreet with the NY Post had received word from the Pentagon through spokesperson Christopher Sherwood that AATIP, “…did pursue research and investigation into unidentified aerial phenomena.”

Understandably, the story then went viral.

However, roughly seven months later, the Pentagon’s stance seems to have changed. Although the statement that was given to the NY Post was accurately reported; the Pentagon now states it was not entirely fact-based.

When asked about the discrepancy, “At the time, Mr. Sherwood was repeating the information that had been provided by a previous spokesperson some two years earlier,” said Gough. “That previous spokesperson is no longer with my organization, and I cannot comment on why that person’s explanation of AATIP included that it had looked at anomalous events. According to all the official information I have now, when implemented, AATIP did not pursue research and investigation into unidentified aerial phenomena; that was not part of the technical studies nor the reports produced by the program.”

The Black Vault reached out to Greenstreet and the New York Post but they did not respond for comment.

The Pentagon’s new stance conflicts with former Department of Defense (DOD) employee, Luis Elizondo. According to Elizondo he was the director of AATIP, and since coming forward in October of 2017, he’s consistantly maintained AATIP did research UFOs / UAPs. “AATIP itself spent its entire time on UFOs,” said Elizondo in March of 2019 at the first annual Anomalous Aerospace Phenomena (AAP) conference put on by the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies (SCU). “AATIP was a 100% UFO program, period. It was not looking at airplanes.”

In an already confusing saga,the Pentagon continues to deny Elizondo’s role and participation in the AATIP. According to Gough, Elizondo was, “not the director of the AATIP,” and reiterated he had “no assigned responsibilities” within the program.

Currently, Elizondo serves as the Director of Government Programs and Services for To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science (TTSA), a “public benefit” corporation led by rock star Tom DeLonge, and stars in a History channel series called Unidentified: Inside America’s UFO Investigation.

In the past, Elizondo has addressed the hierarchy of the AATIP and AAWSAP programs. “It would be disingenuous for me to simply say, well, AATIP is really AAWSAP. Well, it evolved from AAWSAP but it is not AAWSAP,” Elizondo said during an annual Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) conference in July of 2018. “And I think the documentation that is beginning to come out into the public forum, people are beginning to realize that,”Elizondo told the crowd of UFO enthusiasts.

Elizondo did not return a request for comment from The Black Vault.

Although the Pentagon’s change to a previous statement may concern and frustrate a segment of the general public excited about recent UFO developments; hope is not entirely lost. The Pentagon maintains, as of the writing of this article, that the U.S. Navy continues to investigate UAPs, and the three videos that have surfaced in the past two years that have garnered worldwide attention, are still considered UAPs. So the Pentagon hasn’t tried to change or close the door on the whole UFO topic, something should still encourage enthusiasts of the UFO subject.

.
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
I'm going with what Harry Reid says...

 
Spaceman spiff

Spaceman spiff

Noble
I wonder if the follow up is the same old: "yes, we investigated UFOs for a while but stopped looking after Project Bluebook and are not intrested anymore bla bla bla bla..."

Which any decent UFO researcher can show false, including Greenewald. Theres tons of reports and they get more classified the further you go per his own words.
 
Double Nought Spy

Double Nought Spy

Celestial
nivek said:
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Typical pseudoskeptic sniping. At one time, I expected better from Jack. His beliefs are obvious, and he's as open minded as the most dogmatic bleever posting the latest Greer bullshit on Facebook. None of those behaviors get us anywhere. It's just more noise, like we need that.
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
 
nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
 
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