Genuine Contactee?

Fry's scientific insights really are remarkable. Most often, such things turn out to be complete baloney. There are plenty of examples (even without the more modern ones like that one guy who claimed to be a physicist, or that other whack job who claimed to have seen no end of official documents while he was a cook in the navy or whatever, or that other kook who claimed to have more degrees than a thermometer). One that came to mind while reading this thread is the Urantia Book. It's a thick tome full of stuff channeled from aliens orbiting Earth. In the Twenties. Or something like that. I'm sure it still has its fans. I dated a woman in the early 80s who was way into it, to the point she carried it around with her a lot of the time, along with another thick volume, a concordance compiled by devotees over the years. Her little group was the first I had encountered who liked to cherry pick bits from many different traditions, regardless of how much the sources contradicted one another. It was a weird time for me. They were nice people, but I soon realized they were just another group of seekers-after-the-truth, more like a splinter religious group than anything else. Anyway, the Urantia Book is full of claptrap about hierarchical assemblies of angels and aliens and some little invisible pal called the Thought Adjuster, something every human is saddled with along about the age of five. Or something; it's been a long time.

Sorry for the digression. Please carry on with this most interesting thread.
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
Fry's scientific insights really are remarkable. Most often, such things turn out to be complete baloney. There are plenty of examples (even without the more modern ones like that one guy who claimed to be a physicist, or that other whack job who claimed to have seen no end of official documents while he was a cook in the navy or whatever, or that other kook who claimed to have more degrees than a thermometer). One that came to mind while reading this thread is the Urantia Book. It's a thick tome full of stuff channeled from aliens orbiting Earth. In the Twenties. Or something like that. I'm sure it still has its fans. I dated a woman in the early 80s who was way into it, to the point she carried it around with her a lot of the time, along with another thick volume, a concordance compiled by devotees over the years. Her little group was the first I had encountered who liked to cherry pick bits from many different traditions, regardless of how much the sources contradicted one another. It was a weird time for me. They were nice people, but I soon realized they were just another group of seekers-after-the-truth, more like a splinter religious group than anything else. Anyway, the Urantia Book is full of claptrap about hierarchical assemblies of angels and aliens and some little invisible pal called the Thought Adjuster, something every human is saddled with along about the age of five. Or something; it's been a long time.

Sorry for the digression. Please carry on with this most interesting thread.

Don't get me wrong, I believe it's possible or even likely that they have attempted communication with humans.
I feel like they wouldn't be here if they had just no interest in us. Rather, my problem with a lot of contactees is the elevation in status that their claims demand, For instance. Nancy lieder was a prime example of this, The kind of woman who thought, "Aliens are speaking to me, Surely, It's my mission to guide all those lesser beings to enlightenment" because Surely they are so lost "without me" It's this kind of Calvinistic self centralism that makes me question Not just the likelihood of Extraterrestrials speaking to that individual. But Also, It makes me consider As a whole, What would prolonged contact really afford to the individual who in many cases sites that. "oh, Their ways are so advanced that Even I'm still learning how to understand them"

I feel like, And this is really me bouncing from logic point to logic point, But I feel like Meaningful communication between two completely different species may not even be possible. Consider, If we humans could speak to animals, What Could we really communicate, " Hey Dolphin! What do you think about the Half integer spin of the Higgs boson?"
And the Dolphin reply would probably be something like, "The Fish that Glow are poison" Because Communication is as much about resolving to previously understood concepts as much as the words we use. And Dolphins and humans don't have a lot of shared experience to relate to.

It's not about them being able to fully understand us, because they don't, they can't. They aren't us. So they can never truly share in our experience and communicate to us with concepts that they would understand. Because they would find very little in us that they could relate to. They can be fascinated with us, They can think, Oh what a fine human that is. I want to help and protect that human. Or even, The whole human race. But, I really don't think Meaningful communication would be possible.

The Flowers, Have Very little to say to the Bees, The bees know the importance of the flowers, And The flowers need the bees, But That's just Nature. Basic communication May be possible, But, No, There are no Extraterrestrials having long ongoing meaningful communication with humans. I wouldn't think.
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Imagine an NDE case an a person finally woke up and said 'yes, here's what the numbers and symbols are on that piece of cardboard taped on top of that cabinet over there - you know, the one only an entity floating near the ceiling could see, the ones that were left there deliberately for this purpose.' Well then, there's veridical information assuming the person who saw them had absolutely no way to know in advance.

Is that what Fry produced? Something that could only have come through an external source? Or is it just surprising and highly unlikely?

To carry the analogy through, did he wake up and read off a phone number written where nobody could see it that he had no way to know about, or did he wake up and provide highly detailed and accurate descriptions of his surroundings, the people that were there, the equipment and maybe what was said ?
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
Imagine an NDE case an a person finally woke up and said 'yes, here's what the numbers and symbols are on that piece of cardboard taped on top of that cabinet over there - you know, the one only an entity floating near the ceiling could see, the ones that were left there deliberately for this purpose.' Well then, there's veridical information assuming the person who saw them had absolutely no way to know in advance.

Is that what Fry produced? Something that could only have come through an external source? Or is it just surprising and highly unlikely?

To carry the analogy through, did he wake up and read off a phone number written where nobody could see it that he had no way to know about, or did he wake up and provide highly detailed and accurate descriptions of his surroundings, the people that were there, the equipment and maybe what was said ?

I've heard several first-hand cases of NDE'S. Every one of them vastly differed from the other, but that's for another time maybe. Interesting subject though.
 

Ida G

Honorable
I believe people like Nancy Lieder, And other people who proclaim Psychic Contact with extraterrestrials Are Honestly Faking it. For attention.

No. I usually talk about the things that concerns me in the moment. If psychic is the big thing on the agenda, then it is usually just about that. It could have been baseball or anything else.
And it is very rude to think like that psychic with extraterrestrial contact just want attention. My deepest respect for those who try to find kidnapped children, lost pets and other things of importance. The sadness in my case is that there are very few to talk about it with and that many people think that if a person is psychic they suddenly know everything. That is absolutely not true. Many people can talk to spirits, extraterrestrials or any other to get information that is very important. And my deepest respect for those who really follow this path with whole heart.
I was going to buy my protein powder and used my psychic abilities to find the shop. That worked very well. And the lady who worked there was very glad someone else had psychic ability ( She knew even when not telling her) . It is lonely and very depressing for the soul with all the mistrust and negativity.

Knowledge and psychic goes hand in hand. If a psychic who try to talk about it just get negative back, then the knowledge is missed out.
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
No. I usually talk about the things that concerns me in the moment. If psychic is the big thing on the agenda, then it is usually just about that. It could have been baseball or anything else.
And it is very rude to think like that psychic with extraterrestrial contact just want attention. My deepest respect for those who try to find kidnapped children, lost pets and other things of importance. The sadness in my case is that there are very few to talk about it with and that many people think that if a person is psychic they suddenly know everything. That is absolutely not true. Many people can talk to spirits, extraterrestrials or any other to get information that is very important. And my deepest respect for those who really follow this path with whole heart.
I was going to buy my protein powder and used my psychic abilities to find the shop. That worked very well. And the lady who worked there was very glad someone else had psychic ability ( She knew even when not telling her) . It is lonely and very depressing for the soul with all the mistrust and negativity.

Knowledge and psychic goes hand in hand. If a psychic who try to talk about it just get negative back, then the knowledge is missed out.

I don't want any misunderstandings here, I spoke of Phony psychics, But, Those are the guys that undermine the entire phenomenon, What people Call Psychic, Is a real thing, It's not a word I use very often, But, Extrasensory perceptions And The ability to attain information in methods that have no real scientific explanation are a legitimate phenomenon.

How many investigations have been solved by People who pulled this information from some ununderstood source? I don't like the word, Psychic, Because It's almost synonymous with phony, But that's just a cause for a change I strive for. Certain words are Viewed to negatively to be used to describe the phenomenon.

Now that said, I'm not Aiming at individuals and calling them out as Charlton's or fakes here. I believe It's possible. I know a few people here at these forums who claim to be contactees, I have no comments about their own validity in these statements. I Simply feel Nancy lieder is Fake, The prophet Yahweh is another fake. I only point out, The legitimacy of their own falsehoods. Which leaves me skeptical of the entire situation. But No mistakes to be made here. I'm not calling anyone here out, Everyone here has my Respect, This is a community I respect.

It's the Idea of An Extraterrestrial contactee that I am skeptical against. And For what it's worth, It's only one man's opinion, I'm not in any way trying to call out specific people.

I have reservations, About the claims some people make, I'm not calling the entire subject a falsehood or anything.
 

Ida G

Honorable
Thanks for sharing .It is ok! :). Agree that Nancy Lieder seems fake. And flat earth theory is nothing I take seriously either. It is also much humbug out there. Yahweh I do not know about. It could be aliens creating this one God. Have always believed it to be aliens. And it is absolutely possible they have technology of invisibility creating even greater chaos and confusing upon earth.

Some people are honoured to be able to openly about paranormal things from childhood. I never really had that chance except from Christianity, but talking to angels was no good either so it is mostly practical Christianity.
Really nice to have an open forum here to discuss too and fro. :)

Extraterrestrial contactee seems ok for me. But then it is important to gather evidence based on fact for anyone to believe. If not it becomes personal or could become misleading. Aliens can probably lie like we can anyway. They might not even live by the ten command rule.
It is good to share experience no matter how absurd the experience is if do no harm.
 

Ida G

Honorable


Seems to be two people walking in the sky. The first one is at the beginning. Then the other comes and the first walks inside. Could be the giants too. The giants are coming. They could also be too tall for earth!
As usually it is difficult to know if this video is true or hoax. Just wanted to share.
 

Ida G

Honorable
If it is aliens or any other walking in the clouds, then they could have made the shadow of themselves bigger by technology. Just a trick to be seen or anything. Or they did not know their shadow was over sized.
 

Ray

Not an intellectual


Seems to be two people walking in the sky. The first one is at the beginning. Then the other comes and the first walks inside. Could be the giants too. The giants are coming. They could also be too tall for earth!
As usually it is difficult to know if this video is true or hoax. Just wanted to share.


More than true or hoax, i think that's just a tornado in formation phase that dissolved before it could become any wider and light played a role too in this.

Not every tornado forms from top to ground, some form from ground to top. Some form partially and don't even reach the tornado stage but fade before that.
 
Imagine an NDE case an a person finally woke up and said 'yes, here's what the numbers and symbols are on that piece of cardboard taped on top of that cabinet over there - you know, the one only an entity floating near the ceiling could see, the ones that were left there deliberately for this purpose.' Well then, there's veridical information assuming the person who saw them had absolutely no way to know in advance.

Is that what Fry produced? Something that could only have come through an external source? Or is it just surprising and highly unlikely?

To carry the analogy through, did he wake up and read off a phone number written where nobody could see it that he had no way to know about, or did he wake up and provide highly detailed and accurate descriptions of his surroundings, the people that were there, the equipment and maybe what was said ?
These are exactly the correct types of questions to ask, imo. And this is how I'll approach my analysis of the Emanuel Swedenborg case when my workload abates in two weeks.

At first I wrestled with the viability of the scenario that Fry described, and asked myself if an alien being would bother to communicate in English, and I tried to parse out the logic of the conversation, and the purpose of the encounter, and the story about entering the craft and Fry's descriptions of the flight and all that stuff. But there's nothing illogical prima facie to any of that stuff - sure, it's a weird story unlike any other I've heard, but there's nothing about it that falls apart on the basis of evidence (there's no dispositive evidence) and there's nothing outright irrational about it. Such a thing could happen. So that line of questioning is a dead-end, imo.

So I've spent decades analyzing the scientific content of the other two books - the ones about physics and cosmology, to see if they contained anything that Daniel Fry could not have known at the time those books were published. Because if I could determine that any such data existed within his books, then an explanation of that anomaly would indeed require an extraordinary explanation.

And yes I did find that type of data - as I've pointed out, Daniel Fry's book explicitly describes an antigravitational field acting between the galaxy clusters, and that knowledge did not exist in the human lexicon of science until 1998 [actually that's a little bit inaccurate - Einstein had added the "cosmological constant" to his gravitational field equation in order to produce the result of a steady-state universe that he wanted...but he quickly removed it and called it his "greatest blunder" once Hubble and Lemaître discovered Big Bang cosmology]. And furthermore, it appears that nothing less than a global effort employing the best modern telescopes and analytical techniques was capable of determining the existence of the dark energy effect before the late 1990s. So what we have here, all other considerations aside, is a bona fide scientific prediction - a genuine scientific anomaly that demands an explanation.
[Note to 1963 - earlier you got the "dark energy" effect mixed up with the "dark matter" effect - both effects are facts because they're observationally proven...but you're right that we don't yet have a conclusive explanation for either one...it may be that dark energy and/or dark matter are indications of a new theory of gravitation, rather than mysterious "energy" or mysterious "matter" of some kind].

But that's not all.

Daniel Fry also had no way of knowing - as far as I can determine - about the results of Robert L. Forward's theoretical analysis of second-order general relativistic effects published three years after Daniel Fry's book, and the concept of technologically polarizing a gravitational field. I can find no mention of this concept anywhere prior to Fry's 1960 book Steps to the Stars. So that appears to be a second major scientific prediction that was subsequently confirmed by academic science.

And the list continues.

Daniel Fry also accurately described the key performance characteristics of gravitational field propulsion - correctly, nearly four decades before those key performance characteristics were described in the academic physics literature by Miguel Alcubierre in his 1994 paper "The warp drive: hyper-fast travel within general relativity."

And not only that - Fry described a feature of gravitational field propulsion which I still have not seen published anywhere in the academic literature, but which must be true due to the nature of gravitational field interactions. I've actually been waiting for some brilliant theoretical physicist to publish that detail, but to date nobody has figured it out - it hasn't been mentioned in any academic physics paper. But eventually it will be, because it's correct.

I should probably mention that these remarkable predictions haven't been cherry-picked from some crazy slew of wild predictions in Fry's physics books - in fact he made very few novel predictions in his books; most of the text simply explains well-known phenomena in deceptively simple and sensible terms.

However it gets even stranger. Fry describes nuclear physics in a totally alien way - it makes a lot of sense, but his descriptions are totally foreign to the way that our physics model nuclear phenomena. I've spent years trying to reduce his heuristic nuclear physics models to a mathematical formula, and to date I've failed to do so. But here's the crazy thing - Fry provided diagrams of nuclear structure for the first four isotopes of the periodic table, and he illustrated the deuterium nucleus as a dumbbell shape with protons on the outside and an electron in the center (which is nothing like the modern description we expected to see using quantum chromodynamics) - and over 30 years after his book was published this structure was experimentally confirmed; there is actually a low-density region, or "hole," in the center of the dumbbell-shaped deuterium nucleus exactly as Fry had illustrated in his book. To the best of my knowledge no facility in the 1950s had the capability to resolve that detail about the structure of the deuterium nucleus.

There's more, but we'll have to get into that at another time.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Thanks. This thread took an odd turn.

Coincidentally I just read a book about an autistic savant and was thinking about Fry, wondering if he might have some neurological condition that enabled him to visualize things very, very differently. Impossible to prove I suppose but after reading Daniel Tammet it's something to consider.

Daniel Tammet - Wikipedia
 
Thanks. This thread took an odd turn.

Coincidentally I just read a book about an autistic savant and was thinking about Fry, wondering if he might have some neurological condition that enabled him to visualize things very, very differently. Impossible to prove I suppose but after reading Daniel Tammet it's something to consider.

Daniel Tammet - Wikipedia
But here's the weird thing - I've listened to every surviving audio interview and talk given by Daniel Fry, and it's clear that even he didn't understand the theoretical physics that were described in his books. He maintained that this information was given to him without sufficient detail to fully elucidate it. And he sounds damn convincing about it.

So I don't think he was a savant. Apparently he was just a capable rocket technician who got some remarkable information from somebody...

And frankly his books on physics appear to be some kind of puzzle, with barely enough key clues to start putting the pieces together for yourself. Which is why I see those books as a kind of IQ test, which Fry didn't pass, because it's a very, very difficult IQ test. It is, however, a soluble one. At least partially. And god damn is that fascinating.
 
Is Einstein's cosmological constant (aka. dark energy) scalar or vector?
Scalar. It's an antigravitational term that's directly proportional to distance (or volume), which is why it seems to model dark energy so well - it's like an energy associated with spacetime itself that makes it expand.

I'm hoping that the Dark Energy Survey will find inhomogeneities in the dark energy effect, because that would A.) give us a starting point to model it phenomenologically, and B.) it would vindicate Fry's model of polarized gravitation at the cosmological scale.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Does Fry's theory relay on complex numbers and complex differential equations?

Does Fry's theory unite quantum mechanic's and relativity?

What are other predictions of Fry's theory that possibly can be observed?

What do you mean by polarized gravity? Stronger in one direction than in other, but in which way?
 

k

Honorable
No. I usually talk about the things that concerns me in the moment. If psychic is the big thing on the agenda, then it is usually just about that. It could have been baseball or anything else.
And it is very rude to think like that psychic with extraterrestrial contact just want attention. My deepest respect for those who try to find kidnapped children, lost pets and other things of importance. The sadness in my case is that there are very few to talk about it with and that many people think that if a person is psychic they suddenly know everything. That is absolutely not true. Many people can talk to spirits, extraterrestrials or any other to get information that is very important. And my deepest respect for those who really follow this path with whole heart.
I was going to buy my protein powder and used my psychic abilities to find the shop. That worked very well. And the lady who worked there was very glad someone else had psychic ability ( She knew even when not telling her) . It is lonely and very depressing for the soul with all the mistrust and negativity.

Knowledge and psychic goes hand in hand. If a psychic who try to talk about it just get negative back, then the knowledge is missed out.
Ida! I passionately want to understand why nothing works? I had been writing off from your private messages word from word and nothing works! Why do you give advice to people if you know that they don't work!
 

Ida G

Honorable
More than true or hoax, i think that's just a tornado in formation phase that dissolved before it could become any wider and light played a role too in this.

Not every tornado forms from top to ground, some form from ground to top. Some form partially and don't even reach the tornado stage but fade before that.

Thank you. Yes. I already read about this. Just wanted to share. Like the idea of aliens walking the sky. Funny.

But here's the weird thing - I've listened to every surviving audio interview and talk given by Daniel Fry, and it's clear that even he didn't understand the theoretical physics that were described in his books. He maintained that this information was given to him without sufficient detail to fully elucidate it. And he sounds damn convincing about it.

Contactees: A History of Alien-human Interaction By Nick Redfern, Nicholas Redfern. On page 21 you can read Daniel Fry failed on a lie detector test. Do not know anything about who took the test and how many test or the questions of the test. At least it could help understanding his reliability.
 

Ray

Not an intellectual
Thank you. Yes. I already read about this. Just wanted to share. Like the idea of aliens walking the sky. Funny.

That's a fascinating topic, so i understand it.
If i'd have to bet where aliens are hiding in our solar system, i'd say they're spying us from Saturn rings concealed in a shell of composite layers of negative refractive index metamaterials or in the asteroid belts behind big asteroids.

I am ready to welcome my insect overlords when they'll be done with our craps and decide to conquer us, in fact i'm already sewing a mantis outfit to please them.
 
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