Deadly Wuhan Coronavirus

nivek

As Above So Below
So let's say I'm driving down the road about six cars in front of me, on a two-lane road, and the people up ahead and in the other cars are coughing or sneezing or just simply talking...If any of those people have the Coronavirus could that virus come out their windows and fly in my window and infect me, hypothetical situation of course...

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Shadowprophet

Truthiness
So let's say I'm driving down the road about six cars in front of me, on a two-lane road, and the people up ahead and in the other cars are coughing or sneezing or just simply talking...If any of those people have the Coronavirus could that virus come out their windows and fly in my window and infect me, hypothetical situation of course...

...
Yeah, It could happen, I've even wondered to what extent it's even in the air, We discussed that before, But people keep talking about herd immunity. So, It makes sense to me a lot of people coughing and sneezing could put this in the air for miles if not hundreds of miles... I'm not avoiding the inevitable truth and accuracy in information, I'm just trying to avoid crippling fear.
 

AD1184

Celestial
My wife grew up in Elmhurst. Said this was always known as the Death Hospital - not known for it's dedication, shall we say. Now throw in a real problem and see what happens. Pointing to some other entity that was supposed to supply needed equipment is sadly probably all too accurate, but easy and only part of the story. Poor management, standard operating practices, sanitation, are not things that organizations own up to - and I bet these factors share equal responsibility in all this tragedy.

Long way to say this was a s******e to begin with .......

Articles like this are scary, but also serve to keep up the skeer

https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/nycs-...ing-point-as-13-patients-die-in-24-hour-span/

NYC’s Elmhurst Hospital at coronavirus breaking point as 13 patients die in 24-hour span
elmhurst-hospital-1.jpg


New York’s Elmhurst Hospital is at a breaking point amid the coronavirus crisis — with 13 patients dying there in a 24-hour span, officials said Wednesday.

The number of deaths recorded at the Queens facility between Tuesday and Wednesday was “consistent with the amount of ICU patients being treated there,” a spokesman for the city public hospital systems said in a statement.

“Elmhurst is at the center of this crisis,” said Christopher Miller. “It’s the number one priority of our public hospital system right now.”

“Staff are doing everything in our power to save every person who contracts COVID-19,” Miller said.

“But unfortunately this virus continues to take an especially terrible toll on the elderly and people with preexisting conditions.”

Officials say the 545-bed hospital is overrun and in desperate need of supplies.

It’s currently operating at more than 125-percent capacity, compared to its typical 80-percent capacity rate, a source told Patch, which first reported that the hospital was overwhelmed.

“It’s like working at a field hospital in the middle of a war zone,” one ER nurse told The Post.

“New patients are lined up the doors and there aren’t enough beds to hold them. Equipment is running out faster than we can restock it. I’ve never seen anything like it.”

According to The New York Times, some people have died inside the emergency room while waiting for a bed.

“It’s apocalyptic,” Dr. Ashley Bray told the paper.

Earlier this week, scores of people were seen lined up outside the hospital just to get tested for the coronavirus.

Those lines are “just an indication of the overflow and the lack of capacity,” City Councilman Francisco Moya (D-Queens) told The Post.

“They’re inundated,” said Moya, who was born at the hospital, used to work there in development and represents the district its located in.

In the last 24 hours, Elmhurst added 25 staffers from other hospitals, as well as a number of ventilators, said Moya. On Monday, the councilman and Jonathan Krane, the co-founder of the upcoming soccer team Queensboro FC, delivered 1,000 face masks to the hospital.

But the facility will need a lot more help to sustain itself amid a surge in coronavirus patients.

Queens has been hard-hit by the pandemic and accounts for about a third of Big Apple cases, 6,420 as of Wednesday, according to city data.

About 30 percent of Big Apple cases are Queens residents, 5,066 as of Wednesday, according to data from the City Department of Health.

Elmhurst staffers on the front lines are “doing a tremendous job with limited resources they have,” Moya said — but the hospital is “at a critical stage.”

“They’re not going to be able to sustain,” Moya said. “The relief has to be there for the doctors and nurses. And quickly.”

I noticed this on Google Maps:
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
So let's say I'm driving down the road about six cars in front of me, on a two-lane road, and the people up ahead and in the other cars are coughing or sneezing or just simply talking...If any of those people have the Coronavirus could that virus come out their windows and fly in my window and infect me, hypothetical situation of course...

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Well ...... yeah .... and if a cheerleader were knocked off a parade float and she landed in some teenager's bedroom in his lap - and she had coronavirus - then he would have it too.

At some point we're all going to be faced with a decision. Stay put and quarantine or venture out cautiously. I have until April 6th before I am required to make any decision so for now I'll just stay isolated. In a week if things look about like they do now then I'll probably have to go back. If you have the financial means to stay put then it would be wise to.

If it comes down to a serious problem in my family I really don't know what to do. I can jump in my truck and be there in 15 hours and there are no bans to prevent me. Not sure that's so wise but it's all just hypothetical at this point and for me to dwell on it any more than I already am is unhealthy.
 

AD1184

Celestial
So let's say I'm driving down the road about six cars in front of me, on a two-lane road, and the people up ahead and in the other cars are coughing or sneezing or just simply talking...If any of those people have the Coronavirus could that virus come out their windows and fly in my window and infect me, hypothetical situation of course...

...
I would think that the risk of this is theoretically very low. You could probably reduce it still further by keeping your windows rolled up and setting the air to circulate internally if you are paranoid.
 
The figures are scary, but as I have said before, I think that recoveries are being under-reported.

I have been keeping a daily log of the data put out by the health authorities here in Britain, and the count of recoveries was last updated on the 22nd of March, five days ago, and stands at 135. Likely there have been many recoveries since then.

Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

I think the true rate of deaths is more likely in the 0.7-6% range, depending on the quality of treatment available, which is still very scary.
Why do you think that the under-reported recoveries are included in the "Closed Cases" category and not the "Active Cases" category? I would think that a closed case would only have one of two outcomes; either the patient survived, or the patient died, and you wouldn't include cases where you didn't know the outcome.

And I'm using a 2% fatality rate in my estimates because that appears to be about half of what we're seeing in the Western world, and I want to give conservative estimates of pending fatalities so nobody can accuse me of reckless fear-mongering.

No, I mean you make it sound as If I'm saying this is nothing, but this thing simply isn't going to claim the kinds of numbers the Flu did, Not annually, It hasn't even in Italy, This isn't talking shit, This is factual numbers. Look at the spread of the Contagion, We don't have accurate numbers yet, but at most it's matching the flu, and it has a long way to go before it does that,
No it's clearly much more lethal than the flu - even the most wildly optimistic estimates point to a virus that's 10 times more lethal than the flu.

And this thing is spreading exponentially, so the numbers that we're seeing now are only the tip of a much larger iceberg. Here in the US there's been no sign of this trend slowing.

Do the math yourself - it's simple. The US population is just over 327 million. The lower estimate for the percentage of infected is 50% - that means 163.5 Americans will become infected. At a 2% fatality rate (which is about half of what we're seeing), that's 3.27 million Americans dead by the time this thing plays out.

Likewise, the global population is 7.8 billion people. At a 50% infection rate that's 3.9 billion infected people world-wide. At a 2% fatality rate that's 78 million dead.

Even if by some unimaginable miracle we can cut this fatality rate down by 80%, to a .4% fatality rate, that leaves 15.6 million people dead before this is over.

I've been advocating to a total global lock-down from the beginning of this thing because we know that the fatality rate doubles (or more) when hospitals get overwhelmed and they run out of ventilators.

So in the US, we have about 180,000 ventilators. If this thing continues on the current trajectory, we're looking at about 12 million Americans needing ventilators over the next 2-4 months, and we can expect at least 6.54 million Americans dead instead of 3.27 million dead because most major hospitals will be overwhelmed within a week or two (and many of them already are).

I hate the idea of being locked down - I like my freedom. But if we can save 3.27 million American lives and 78 million lives around the globe by doing it, then to hell with my freedom for a few months: this is about saving the lives of millions of people.

Anyway, those are the numbers. I'm not fearmongering; I'm sharing the best available facts that I can, and explaining what they mean. If anyone wants to disagree with me, fine - show me more credible facts and let's run the numbers again.

But don't tell me that this virus is no worse than the seasonal flu just because it hasn't claimed millions of lives yet. Because this is a very simple calculation and the inevitability of the scale of this disaster looks to be about as certain as the Sun rising tomorrow. Unless the aliens land on the White House lawn and hand us a vaccine for this thing - and we all know that's not going to happen.
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
Why do you think that the under-reported recoveries are included in the "Closed Cases" category and not the "Active Cases" category? I would think that a closed case would only have one of two outcomes; either the patient survived, or the patient died, and you wouldn't include cases where you didn't know the outcome.

And I'm using a 2% fatality rate in my estimates because that appears to be about half of what we're seeing in the Western world, and I want to give conservative estimates of pending fatalities so nobody can accuse me of reckless fear-mongering.


No it's clearly much more lethal than the flu - even the most wildly optimistic estimates point to a virus that's 10 times more lethal than the flu.

And this thing is spreading exponentially, so the numbers that we're seeing now are only the tip of a much larger iceberg. Here in the US there's been no sign of this trend slowing.

Do the math yourself - it's simple. The US population is just over 327 million. The lower estimate for the percentage of infected is 50% - that means 163.5 Americans will become infected. At a 2% fatality rate (which is about half of what we're seeing), that's 3.27 million Americans dead by the time this thing plays out.

Likewise, the global population is 7.8 billion people. At a 50% infection rate that's 3.9 billion infected people world-wide. At a 2% fatality rate that's 78 million dead.

Even if by some unimaginable miracle we can cut this fatality rate down by 80%, to a .4% fatality rate, that leaves 15.6 million people dead before this is over.

I've been advocating to a total global lock-down from the beginning of this thing because we know that the fatality rate doubles (or more) when hospitals get overwhelmed and they run out of ventilators.

So in the US, we have about 180,000 ventilators. If this thing continues on the current trajectory, we're looking at about 12 million Americans needing ventilators over the next 2-4 months, and we can expect at least 6.54 million Americans dead instead of 3.27 million dead because most major hospitals will be overwhelmed within a week or two (and many of them already are).

I hate the idea of being locked down - I like my freedom. But if we can save 3.27 million lives by doing it, then to hell with my freedom for a few months: this is about saving millions of lives.

Anyway, those are the numbers. I'm not fearmongering; I'm sharing the best available facts that I can, and explaining what they mean. If anyone wants to disagree with me, fine - show me more credible facts and let's run the numbers again.

But don't tell me that this virus is no worse that the seasonal flu just because it hasn't claimed millions of lives yet. Because this is a very calculation and the inevitability of the scale of this disaster looks to be about as certain as the Sun rising tomorrow. Unless the aliens land on the White House lawn and hand us a vaccine for this thing - and we all know that's not going to happen.



I have full faith that before this virus claims millions of lives we will have a vaccine though. That's the thing, To give it time to claim millions of lives,, Which I admit, In third world countries, It may, even this year. But, People are doing their numbers all wrongly on this, They are estimating numbers without account for any defense, There are several defenses we will have,

Defense one, Some people on planet earth already have immunities built up against this, Yes they call it novel, But Those who have already recovered, do have some small amount of immunity. I question, Why we can't study those people who have recovered and attempt to get antibodies from those people?

Defense two, We will eventually have a vaccine, So, Yes, doing the numbers in this way, By the time it can take millions of lives there will be a vaccine, Look at the numbers it's claimed so far, For it to claim millions of lives exponentially, It's going to take time, You speak truly when you say there is no cure for viruses, But there are vaccines. A vaccine will come in time, I promise.

Defense 3, Heard immunity, As more people recover and build immunity to this virus, They will not be active spreaders. The Virus won't always spread like wildfire. from person to person. A person who has good immunity to this, won't be contagious as long as others. eventually no matter how one slices it the spread will slow brother.

This virus is fighting us. But We are fighting it, In a myriad of ways. The human immune system Will fight back. Eventually, This Coronavirus will be nothing more than serious flu.
It spreads like it does Because its novel, That won't be the case always and its spread will slow without question, without a doubt.

People worry about it mutating, But it hasn't yet, And if it doesn't then we will fully defeat this virus within five years.

I know people will question my logic, but if you think about it, My logic is very sound on this. This Coronavirus Will eventually pass. I promise. I know people are dying, That's the scary part, But we are fighting this thing And we will beat it.
 
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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
So let's say I'm driving down the road about six cars in front of me, on a two-lane road, and the people up ahead and in the other cars are coughing or sneezing or just simply talking...If any of those people have the Coronavirus could that virus come out their windows and fly in my window and infect me, hypothetical situation of course... ...

This can help you a lot.

You can write a simulation based on Navier-Stokes differential equations that describe fluid flow in gasses and liquids. Than you just model two cars with open windows and same virus density per cubic inch or cm of air. Better safe than sorry! Obviously, under assumption you are not going to work and have plenty of time to kill.

Hmmm, even one better. One can change code given in the video to calculate a spread of the virus, say in a shopping mall or bus stop, with each sneeze.

 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
I fully understand if people don't want to hear my side of it, The side that says, This is not doomsday we aren't all going to die, However, People aren't taking a lot of factors into account on this. I never said it was a nothing virus or wasn't' a problem, I just put it into perspective, But panicking and thinking that things will always be this bad, That's simply not logical, The entire world is working on a vaccine, One will happen, There is nothing wrong with being hopeful.
The hopeful person has a reason to get up out of bed in the morning. And My hope isn't ill-founded, MAny people more educated than all of us combined worldwide are racing to find a vaccine. People fear this because it's like a monster that's coming for just them, and they panic, Things will not always be this way. Medine and vaccines and the slow of the spread because of herd immunity, These things will happen, And why would someone think those things wouldn't come?

They came for every other disease we have. There are coronavirus vaccines for the flu which is a coronavirus btw, Why would this one not? It will.

I promise.
 

AD1184

Celestial
Why do you think that the under-reported recoveries are included in the "Closed Cases" category and not the "Active Cases" category? I would think that a closed case would only have one of two outcomes; either the patient survived, or the patient died, and you wouldn't include cases where you didn't know the outcome.
I do think that actual recoveries are being kept in the 'active cases' category due to under-reporting. I saw it happen with the daily updated Wuhan data. I calculated the CFR daily at work from the published numbers. It was initially a nearly 30% CFR in the outcomes, before gradually reducing to single digits.

Worldometer includes those outcomes of which it has learned through the various global health authorities. If they report deaths more diligently than they report recoveries, then the outcomes are going to over-represent the deaths. Recoveries are more ambiguous than deaths (at least, the point in time at which they occur is), which probably explains why they are more conservatively reported.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I would think that the risk of this is theoretically very low. You could probably reduce it still further by keeping your windows rolled up and setting the air to circulate internally

It doesn't hurt to ask since this virus has shown it can survive on surfaces for many hours and also survive in the air for a (too) generous period of time as well...There are still many unknowns about this particular virus, IMO, I read an article stating it may even be carried on the shoes of an individual that walks into places where infected people are, others are also suggesting to change clothing after walking into stores and shops where infected people possibly are which at one point may have seemed paranoid but now seems quite logical...

if you are paranoid.

Hardly so, as mentioned above there's many unknowns yet in regards to Covid-19 so its best to ask instead of assume but frankly, I never thought I would see something like this occur in my lifetime...I grew up with the threat of nuclear war and once the Soviet Union collapsed it was, for me, even for a moment, a sigh of relief even though there still were and are plenty of nukes around the world...I wonder when and how that sigh of relief will take place if and when we defeat this virus and how many of us will be left standing in the aftermath, alas its still more unknowns because the story is still being written, so to speak...

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AD1184

Celestial
I fully understand if people don't want to hear my side of it, The side that says, This is not doomsday we aren't all going to die, However, People aren't taking a lot of factors into account on this. I never said it was a nothing virus or wasn't' a problem, I just put it into perspective, But panicking and thinking that things will always be this bad, That's simply not logical, The entire world is working on a vaccine, One will happen, There is nothing wrong with being hopeful.
This is not doomsday, no. We are not all going to die. However, I think we are witnessing the largest mass casualty event in our lifetimes. It is not going to kill everyone, or even most people, but it will kill a lot of people, and likely leave many others with lasting lung damage. Those who do die will suffer greatly, as will many who pull through. Many will die indirectly as a result of reduced access to health care because it will overload the health systems in most countries.

The hopeful person has a reason to get up out of bed in the morning. And My hope isn't ill-founded, MAny people more educated than all of us combined worldwide are racing to find a vaccine. People fear this because it's like a monster that's coming for just them, and they panic, Things will not always be this way. Medine and vaccines and the slow of the spread because of herd immunity, These things will happen, And why would someone think those things wouldn't come?

They came for every other disease we have. There are coronavirus vaccines for the flu which is a coronavirus btw, Why would this one not? It will.

I promise.
A vaccine will probably come eventually. This virus has the power to kill many millions before a vaccine can be developed. The vaccine is likely going to be too late to suppress the peak of the epidemic.

PS influenza is not in the same family as coronaviruses.
 
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nivek

As Above So Below
Trump slams 'third rate grandstander' Thomas Massie who plans to vote AGAINST $2trillion bailout and hold up checks-for-all, as President demands 'throw him out of Republican Party' and John Kerry says 'he's tested positive for being a Masshole'

President Donald Trump railed against a member of his own party who threatened to hold up Friday's House vote on the $2 trillion coronavirus rescue package. The president blasted Congressman Thomas Massie, a Republican from Kentucky, for threatening to call a roll call vote on the measure, which will delay its passage, and called on the GOP to throw the eight-term lawmaker out of the party. Massie also was a vocal defender of the president's during the impeachment inquiry. 'Looks like a third rate Grandstander named @RepThomasMassie, a Congressman from, unfortunately, a truly GREAT State, Kentucky, wants to vote against the new Save Our Workers Bill in Congress. He just wants the publicity. He can’t stop it, only delay, which is both dangerous & costly,' Trump complained on Twitter Friday morning.

Congress is on the brink of passing the relief bill but lawmakers are making a mad dash to Washington D.C. to prevent Massie from going rogue and derailing the measure. Both Republicans and Democrats agree the package - which offers loans to small businesses, direct checks to Americans and aid to industries hit hard by the virus - needs to be passed today. But Massie said he might hold up the bill, citing Constitutional issues about voting without a quorum present. 'US Constitution ARTICLE I, SECTION 5, CLAUSE 1 Quorum requirement:' he tweeted earlier this week with a screen grab of the section of the constitution that requires a majority of lawmakers to be present to conduct official business in the House and Senate.


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Shadowprophet

Truthiness
This is not doomsday, no. We are not all going to die. However, I think we are witnessing the largest mass casualty event in our lifetimes. It is not going to kill everyone, or even most people, but it will kill a lot of people, and likely leave many others with lasting lung damage. Those who do die will suffer greatly, as will many who pull through. Many will die indirectly as a result of reduced access to health care because it will overload the health systems in most countries.


A vaccine will probably come eventually. This virus has the power to kill many millions before a vaccine can be developed. The vaccine is likely going to be too late to suppress the peak of the epidemic.

PS influenza is not in the same family as coronaviruses.
I will grant you, In third world countries, This is going to be bad. Just as bad as you guys think, Yes.
I can't even pretend it won't be. It will.

With the covid-19, You are getting it mixed up with the sars variants, Covid-19 is Sars cov2 there are other variations of sars, A coronavirus is called a coronavirus because of its crown, The flu is a coronavirus, The family you are thinking of is the Sars and MERS coronaviruses bro.

https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F131016172612-05-microscope-cold-flu.jpg

Flu under a microscope, actually I think it's Cg,, but still. See coronavirus.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
UK's coronavirus death toll jumps by 181 to 759 in Britain's darkest day of the crisis yet as almost 3,000 more patients are diagnosed and even Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock catch it

The UK's coronavirus death toll today jumped to 759 after officials announced 181 more victims of the life-threatening infection in the biggest daily rise. Health chiefs also confirmed almost 15,000 Britons have now caught the virus, with 2,921 new cases of the deadly virus recorded in just 24 hours - another record high. It comes after Britain's death toll yesterday jumped by 113, in what was officially the UK's darkest day yet in the spiralling coronavirus crisis until today. Scotland today confirmed eight more deaths, Wales six and Northern Ireland three - the rest occurred in England.

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nivek

As Above So Below
How my dad, 106, survived the 'other' pandemic - the Spanish flu

My father, Ed Palkot, has a unique perspective on the current coronavirus pandemic. He's sheltering in place now in his suburban New York home. And he's 106. He survived the last major global ‎pandemic.

That one infected 500 million people around the world and killed some 50 million, 675,000 in the U.S. American cities were especially hard-hit, including Pittsburgh, Penn. The city of just over half-a-million at the time saw 4,500 deaths from the virus and 24,000 reported cases. And Dad was one of them.

Edward was 5 years old. According to him, he probably contracted the “dreaded disease” from his “playmates.” Unlike the current COVID-19, the Spanish flu hit younger people harder than the elderly.

“Those who drank whiskey escaped the flu,” Dad recalls his mother Mamie suggesting, “those who did not, succumbed.”

(more on the link)


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