Deadly Wuhan Coronavirus

pigfarmer said:

Sorry, but no way that could possibly work here. Totalitarian China maybe but here if you want civil unrest of epic proportions that's the way to get it.

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I've got to be fair on This situation, While logically locking down the entire nation would be a viable option, That just wont work on Americans. We are a nation built on the "Idea" of freedom, I say idea Because I feel that freedom is illusionary, However. The thing is, Every American has the idea of freedom and even rebellion ingrained into his and her DNA.

A lockdown would logically only turn into a Civil war. Americans won't accept a lockdown. That's sad but true.


Even old war logic,, Like freedom or death has been whispered in the background since birth to every part of American culture. IF we lock down the country, Those who aren't sick will strike out on their own looking for food and medicine spreading the virus. I don't even think armies could totally lockdown America. Simply put the Chinese are conditioned to obedience from Millennia of oppression from war and communism, America was built upon the freedom or death principal. Locking down the nation would cause a Civil war within a few weeks.

Shadowprophet said:

I've got to be fair on This situation, While logically locking down the entire nation would be a viable option, That just wont work on Americans. We are a nation built on the "Idea" of freedom, I say idea Because I feel that freedom is illusionary, However. The thing is, Every American has the idea of freedom and even rebellion ingrained into his and her DNA.

A lockdown would logically only turn into a Civil war. Americans won't accept a lockdown. That's sad but true.


Even old war logic,, Like freedom or death has been whispered in the background since birth to every part of American culture. IF we lock down the country, Those who aren't sick will strike out on their own looking for food and medicine spreading the virus. I don't even think armies could totally lockdown America. Simply put the Chinese are conditioned to obedience from Millennia of oppression from war and communism, America was built upon the freedom or death principal. Locking down the nation would cause a Civil war within a few weeks.

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Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics. The amount of effort required to 'lock down' the country and exactly how it would be done would be daunting if even possible. I'm doubtful it is.

Then we've got the folks that occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, the Bundy standoff. Cut from the same bolt of cloth as Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City. Lots of extremists out there who threaten to resort to violence and some that do because of their inherent distrust of the government. I've had direct contact with a couple of major league extremists and any number of wannabe preppers and I know their interpretation of a lock down like that wouldn't be quite the same as ours.

Whatever the reality of the federal response to this - and I personally think there is no lack of fault to go around at all levels - the absolute visceral blind mouth-foaming hatred of DT and all that he represents means that no matter what he's evil, has blood on his hands, eats kittens for breakfast, farts unabashedly in elevators, you name it. Kobayashi Maru.

Shadowprophet said:

I had been meaning to bring this up for a moment, So, It seems like The U.S is now throwing accusation at the world health organization, I think the main point of contingency is The U.S or The Cdc is pointing fingers at the Who claiming their interests lay with China primarily, I just wanted peoples thoughts on this, Is this a result in your eyes as a failing of the World health organization, Or is this that things are so bad in the U.S at the moment and the U.S wants to lay some amount of blame on the Who? Trump is saying, We pay a lot of tax money to the World health organization and he views that as a poor investment because they haven't done the finest possible job in their response to this in regard to other nations as the Who seems to be China-centric in their focus.

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Ghebreyesus is a career polititian who comes from a communist background. Never has he practised in medicine and has received support from Chinese diplomats. Probably stems from China financially aiding Ethiopia in the past and therfore the cozy up can be seen from that level.

He hasn't done himself any favours in praising transparency but I do think the Chinese response was impressive.

I got the impression that very few nations acted with the immediacy that the W.H.O recommended and our two nations were even slacker.

If someone give you a load of money, it is hard not to favour them.

pepe said:

Ghebreyesus is a career polititian who comes from a communist background. Never has he practised in medicine and has received support from Chinese diplomats. Probably stems from China financially aiding Ethiopia in the past and therfore the cozy up can be seen from that level.

He hasn't done himself any favours in praising transparency but I do think the Chinese response was impressive.

I got the impression that very few nations acted with the immediacy that the W.H.O recommended and our two nations were even slacker.

If someone give you a load of money, it is hard not to favour them.

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If someone gave me a load of money, I would totally favor them, But, It is the World health organization, Not the Chinese health organization, I mean, perhaps it's a little of everyones fault for putting them up on a pedestal and giving them so much universal trust. , Honestly, I don't know what to truly think about the issue because My thoughts on politics aren't that polarizing, I would even go as far as to say, The common westerner's thoughts on China may even be a little bias I mean, one almost has never heard the words of praise for the Chinese come from The west, So I take that into account that possibly This whole issue comes from political Bias. So, I mean, I can Answer and make sense out of Moral issues. But when Politics get involved it becomes a complicated puzzle to figure out, I have a great grasp on moral issues. But Politics are rarely ever a moral sport.

So, ultimately, I'm lost on this issue.

Shadowprophet said:

If someone gave me a load of money, I would totally favor them, But, It is the World health organization, Not the Chinese health organization, I mean, perhaps it's a little of everyones fault for putting them up on a pedestal and giving them so much universal trust. , Honestly, I don't know what to truly think about the issue because My thoughts on politics aren't that polarizing, I would even go as far as to say, The common westerner's thoughts on China may even be a little bias I mean, one as has almost never heard the words of praise for the Chinese come from The west, So I take that into account that possibly This whole issue comes from political Bias. So, I mean, I can Answer and make sense out of Moral issues. But when Politics get involved it becomes a complicated puzzle to figure out, I have a great grasp on moral issues. But Politics are rarely ever a moral sport.

So, ultimately, I'm lost on this issue.

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I think it must be hard to not favour such a power once it has helped so much. I think the US carries the same sort of clout and will have had certain coziness.

We shouldn't have ended up so reliant on China but we can't ignore a bargain, that to me makes China innocent in the respect but yes the blame for its origin and the hiding it first off will have to be addressed I'm sure but it feels too big for anyone to wear.

It's been going on for hundreds of years and no one has pinned on them yet.

pigfarmer said:

Sorry, but no way that could possibly work here. Totalitarian China maybe but here if you want civil unrest of epic proportions that's the way to get it.

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I guess you’re not paying attention to what all of the other nations in the developed world have been doing; Italy, Spain, France, the UK, Canada, etc. – none of our closest allies are totalitarian regimes, and yet they’re all on lockdown and winning against this virus while the US has quickly become the global epicenter for this pandemic. And now the countries that responded quickly and intelligently are gradually easing off their restrictions and coming out the other side of this thing:

Europe:
Coronavirus: What are the lockdown measures across Europe? | DW | 01.04.2020

Canada:
The coronavirus pandemic will change Canada forever. Inside the lockdown.

Australia:
Have Australia and New Zealand stopped Covid-19 in its tracks?

And what exactly do you think “civil unrest” would look like during an outbreak of a deadly and highly infectious virus? It’s not like people are going to gather by the hundreds to protest and wave signs, or form militias to raid City Hall.

pigfarmer said:

Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics. The amount of effort required to 'lock down' the country and exactly how it would be done would be daunting if even possible. I'm doubtful it is.

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And yet every other developed and freedom-loving nation on the planet has managed to pull it off without inciting riots or ending the world as we know it.

The only other approach requires mass testing, isolating the infected, and deploying teams of specialists to trace the infection routes of the infected people and test the people they’ve been in contact with, like they‘ve done in South Korea and other free nations that have capable national leadership:

How South Korea Reined In The Outbreak Without Shutting Everything Down

pigfarmer said:

Then we've got the folks that occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, the Bundy standoff. Cut from the same bolt of cloth as Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City. Lots of extremists out there who threaten to resort to violence and some that do because of their inherent distrust of the government. I've had direct contact with a couple of major league extremists and any number of wannabe preppers and I know their interpretation of a lock down like that wouldn't be quite the same as ours.

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People like that have been self-isolating for decades so I don’t see the problem.

pigfarmer said:

Whatever the reality of the federal response to this - and I personally think there is no lack of fault to go around at all levels - the absolute visceral blind mouth-foaming hatred of DT and all that he represents means that no matter what he's evil, has blood on his hands, eats kittens for breakfast, farts unabashedly in elevators, you name it. Kobayashi Maru.

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The virus is a totally nonpartisan judge, jury, and executioner. The simple fact that the US is being ravaged by this outbreak while countries like Germany have managed it so well that they’re now looking at easing restrictions, is irrefutable empirical proof that our national leadership is the worst in the developed world and has completely failed this test, which we’re now measuring by the number of body bags.

I’d be the first person here to congratulate Trump if he’d taken this pandemic seriously, and ramped up testing and isolation of infected patients from the beginning, and thereby made the US the most successfully managed country in the face of this outbreak. Instead, the US now has more than 3 times as many cases as any other nation on Earth, and that ratio is increasing every day. And in any case, I hate the Democrats more than I hate the Republicans, because the Republicans are at least honest about their shitty policy ambitions, whereas the Democrats just lie to themselves and others while implementing the exact same shitty policies that the Republicans do. So this isn’t a pointless and banal political pissing contest to me – this is about mounting the necessary national response to a deadly global pandemic in order to save hundreds of thousands of American lives. This administration has failed to do that, and yes the blood of untold thousands of dead Americans is on their hands because of that failure.

When we’re all still stuck at home in June watching our national economy and civil order collapse while the rest of the developed world is going back to work, I wonder if you’ll still be as forgiving of the months of denial and inaction, and the golf games and political rallies, that cost us horribly in American lives and devastated our entire nation.

Did Trump Golf, Hold Rallies After Learning About COVID-19 Threat?

Theres not been that many new people admitted to the hospital or critical care in the last 4 days, i hope this continues.

Anyway, my nephew caught this virus and recovered recently - he's in his late 20's and lives in Brooklyn, and he's lost his sense of smell and taste (temporarily, I hope) and it turns out that this is a very prevalent symptom of this virus. His "mild case" consisted of the worst flu he'd ever had and which lasted for about three weeks...so "mild" appears to be a very relative term.

A new study describes a coronavirus patient's 'sudden and complete' loss of smell — further evidence that mild cases can involve that symptom but few others

My daughter got a detailed Email of what to do if there is a food riot.
Have we really come to this?

Things have not been getting much better in Italy nor Spain, both countries seems to have leveled off in new infections and deaths, the UK and US are growing in new deaths and up and down on new infections...I also read the the US is not counting nursing home deaths related to the virus and I read that in New York they are not giving us a complete count but attributing many deaths to other causes without testing to confirm...

This is a sad state of affairs. Having the Coronavirus victims buried in mass graves in New York State. I realize that these bodies are of the poor or are unclaimed. Still, this comes across as something that happens in a third world country.

nivek said:

Things have not been getting much better in Italy nor Spain, both countries seems to have leveled off in new infections and deaths, the UK and US are growing in new deaths and up and down on new infections...I also read the the US is not counting nursing home deaths related to the virus and I read that in New York they are not giving us a complete count but attributing many deaths to other causes without testing to confirm...

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Already six times more fatalities than 9/11, and we're still not at the peak yet...

And I doubt that they're including the people who have died in their homes from the coronavirus; we won't have a full picture until this is over.

Standingstones said:

This is a sad state of affairs. Having the Coronavirus victims buried in mass graves in New York State. I realize that these bodies are of the poor or are unclaimed. Still, this comes across as something that happens in a third world country.

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I read that New York is giving people only 14 days to claim bodies or into the pits they go, why not incinerate?...

...

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

As it nears its peak this is a sobering reminder of how bad it is..

Here is a link to an excellent podcast-interview (4-10-20) with former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb, M.D., conducted by Rich Lowry of National Review. Especially noteworthy, starting at about 26 minutes, his estimate that less than 5% of the U.S. population has yet been exposed to coronavirus, and the implications of this.

https://www.nationalreview.com/podcasts/the-editors/special-episode-scott-gottlieb-md-206/

Hunger crisis hits lockdown Britain as 1.5million say they go without eating all day due to poverty brought on by coronavirus pandemic

Million of Brits are going without meals in a growing food crisis amid the coronavirus lockdown, according to a charity.

Some 1.5 million people have reported going a whole day without eating since the draconian measures were introduced three weeks ago, because they didn't have enough in their cupboards and fridges. The figures, from a YouGov poll commissioned by the Food Foundation and the FFCC (Food, Farming and Countryside Commission), also show six per cent of the population - more than three million people - have had someone in their household skip dinner.

Furthermore, the research claims that more than a million people said they've lost all of their income as a result of the lockdown, while more than a third (43%) who are now earning less think they are not entitled to help from the government.

In response, the foundation is calling on the government to support councils to improve welfare assistance schemes and provide nutritious food parcels for people who are self-isolating while also looking for better home delivery options. It comes as local authorities are reporting similar stories from the frontline, with Liverpool City Council seeing a 150% rise in emergency grants being given to people without food or money to pay their bills, according to the Guardian.

.

Dean said:

Here is a link to an excellent podcast-interview (4-10-20) with former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb, M.D., conducted by Rich Lowry of National Review. Especially noteworthy, starting at about 26 minutes, his estimate that less than 5% of the U.S. population has yet been exposed to coronavirus, and the implications of this.

The Editors -- Special Episode: Scott Gottlieb, MD [206] | National Review

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That is a good podcast, very informative IMO, I think he's right to estimate about 3 percent of the US population has been exposed to the virus, its likely even less than that given that currently confirmed cases are just over 500,000 people which is less than a quarter of one percent of the US population which is over 300 million...Just think if the entire population were to quickly become exposed or even half, it would bring this country down completely IMO...

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China muzzled its Bat Woman: Beijing authorities hushed up the findings of a scientist who unlocked the genetic make-up of the coronavirus within days of the outbreak - which is vital for tests and vaccines

A Chinese scientist who is the one of the world's leading experts on coronaviruses was 'muzzled' after unravelling the genetic composition of the new disease, which is crucial for developing diagnostic tests and vaccines. The revelation will fuel fresh concerns over China's cover-up of the pandemic after it erupted in the city of Wuhan. Critics argue that Communist Party chiefs frustrated efforts to contain the outbreak before it exploded around the world. At the centre of the new claims is Shi Zhengli (pictured right), known as China's 'Bat Woman' after years spent on difficult virus-hunting expeditions in dank caves that have led to a series of important scientific discoveries. The virologist was called back to her highsecurity laboratory in Wuhan at the end of last year after a mysterious new respiratory condition in the city was identified as a novel coronavirus - and within three days she completed its gene sequencing.