Will this Pandemic change the World forever?

pepe

Celestial
Depends on what you get for your taxes. Right now New York is the highest tax rate in the nation, at best the second, and residents are so ecstatic over it they’re leaving in droves. Or were, until very recently...

Were they leaving because of the sanctuary effect and the promise of the lunatics taking over the Asylum.

It could be genetic with the Scandinavians being a more, I don't know what, more in touch with a confidence and assuredness that comes from a slower pace of life. Perceptions of corruption I am sure are lower than the US by some considerable measure. I put New Zealand in the same basket as a slower and more content people.

Naive Americans make the basket.
 

pepe

Celestial
I've heard this many times and I don't agree with the tenuous connection some experts like to make between higher taxes and happiness. One could just as easily argue that people in Scandinavian countries are happier because they're the most caucasian countries in the world or because they're the snowiest countries. Maybe they're happiest because they live near so many fjords?

Yes maybe not the tax content connection but there is a trend there.

Yes I think being more uni cultural does play a role with this but i think it's more about the rat race effect that comes hand in hand with capitalism.

Oh yes the fjords and landscape are beautiful and there is no rush to spoil it.
 

pepe

Celestial
I have been wondering lately if there is a connection to the compensation seeking environment that the UK and US exist with. I remember stories of the war effort and the freedom of movement for people and product that were able to act without fear of being sued for corporate man slaughter, I wouldn't mind a jot if some did die while having a home made effort when there is no alternstive. Having to watch your back while trying to help is probably one of the saddest elements to our advanced condition in the West.

Mcdonalds restaurants and the hot liquid coffee claim was the first I remember as a child and coming from the US, when I was at my nans as a kid I remember the impression I sensed when hearing it on the radio. The UK has certainty headed down the same track and I wonder if this has part hand in some of the tardiness we have witnessed during this pandemic.
 

pepe

Celestial
Perception of corruption.

Where it is ok to penalise when well intended aid was provided is morally corrupt and a permission that probably now cannot be reversed but I think it would be a better place if it could be. I don't think many other countries in the West have this ugly side as bad and more so when I think of the Scandinavian nations.

One of those background noises that just hums and becomes a norm, even though we know it isn't right it has sound off because we built it so.
 

pepe

Celestial
Animals follow instinct, humans follow reason. Right now we are about 80% animals, but luckily trend for that percentage is downwards.

Yeah maybe there is a shifting of something under the covers that will favour the liberal side of our nature. Wokeness has been drowned by the real stuff and is off my radar as an irritant. Only thing that could halt this ever swinging left are our economic states after this and the need for growth.

Definately a separation of people and power being drawn out by this and with the left coming back to the center it could be setting up a better performing government, which ever one leads.

The gap is closing both here and America, which is a good thing.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I am fairly sure that what is happening will change things for a very long time.

Yes it seems a new reality is taking shape as this virus spreads relentlessly throughout the world, and with information indicating this virus was at least partially engineered, I seriously doubt we will have an effective means to stop it anytime in the foreseeable future...There's going to be a time soon, if it hasn't occurred already, when our elected officials are going to start considering acceptable loses of life and that consideration will eventually become acceptable to the common folk...Civil disorder can and will most likely arise from this crisis, especially as our food supplies become more and more affected with processing plants shutting down and farms not able to produce the quantities of food they once were able to do...Also civil disorder will come from longer term lockdowns, we already see protests around the country in America, people protesting being forced to lock down and loose small businesses as a result...This is where I think acceptable loss of life will come into play, people can self-isolate without being forced and our government should allow Americans to do this and those who don't will spread the virus more and will die as a result, some things we are going to have to accept and live with...I had some rays of hope that perhaps in a year or two we could have this virus situation behind us if it was a naturally occurring virus but with recent revelations of this thing likely being engineered or modified in some way how can we hope to stop it anytime soon, I do not think we can...

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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Call me optimist, but I don't think there are going to be any changes. What were the changes after Spanish Flue pandemic back in 1917? One year after Coronavirus is stopped everybody will just move on and forget it ever happened.

But WWIII is real danger. As unemployment is sky rocketing and the only historically tried and tested solution was to send unemployed to fight wars, while employing everybody else to work for the war machine at home. As food shortages kick in, politicians will naturally shift the blame on foreign countries and people will just moonwalk themselves into belligerent mood. It's usually enough just for one country to start the blame game and all other countries will eagerly join.

But there is a silver lining to WWIII scenario. Nuclear fireworks will definitely sterilize anything that is left of coronavirus :) and possibly flue, ebola, cholera etc.
 

pepe

Celestial
Well it started optimistically and then there was a baiting for trouble which rounded off into a nuclear war with a smiley.
 
Yes it seems a new reality is taking shape as this virus spreads relentlessly throughout the world, and with information indicating this virus was at least partially engineered, I seriously doubt we will have an effective means to stop it anytime in the foreseeable future...There's going to be a time soon, if it hasn't occurred already, when our elected officials are going to start considering acceptable loses of life and that consideration will eventually become acceptable to the common folk...Civil disorder can and will most likely arise from this crisis, especially as our food supplies become more and more affected with processing plants shutting down and farms not able to produce the quantities of food they once were able to do...Also civil disorder will come from longer term lockdowns, we already see protests around the country in America, people protesting being forced to lock down and loose small businesses as a result...This is where I think acceptable loss of life will come into play, people can self-isolate without being forced and our government should allow Americans to do this and those who don't will spread the virus more and will die as a result, some things we are going to have to accept and live with...I had some rays of hope that perhaps in a year or two we could have this virus situation behind us if it was a naturally occurring virus but with recent revelations of this thing likely being engineered or modified in some way how can we hope to stop it anytime soon, I do not think we can...
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Actually there are a couple of teams who worked on the original SARS years ago, who were able to adapt their work on that to create promising solutions for this one. Distributed Bio in San Francisco for example, started with the synthetic antibodies that they engineered for SARS and adapted it in the computer so the new synthetic antibodies would bind very aggressively to this new virus. It sounded like some kind of evolutionary program but he didn't get into the details. Once they had five different synthetic antibody designs, they tested them out on the glyoprotein comprising the binding spikes on the viral capsid of SARS-CoV-2, and all five aggressively attached to it. So they've sent all five antibodies to the military so the military can test them out on the live virus itself (there's no reason that won't work out, that I can see anyway). They plan on running safety tests this summer and then making experimental samples available for critical patients by this fall.

It doesn't really matter if a virus is natural or synthetic - either way it comes down to the same process; understand the virus and then make custom treatments against it.

What troubles me is the timescale: I don't see global civilization holding it together for 18-24 months while people self-isolate and we develop an effective treatment. To keep this ship from sinking, we all have to get back to work. And we can't do that until, at the very least, we have so many testing kits that we can all get tested at least once or twice per week (and healthcare workers will need to take them every single day). So we're talking about 8 billion tests per week, all around the globe. We need to get that moving now, because we don't have a Plan B to get us through the next 12-24 months.

The mutations also worry me. The more people who get infected, the more the virus mutates. If the spike protein mutates significantly, then we're screwed, because that will require a new customized treatment...with another 12-24-month lead time on development. So it's imperative that we stop the spread.

That's why the "herd immunity" strategy is insane. We would have to let 70% of the population of the planet get infected before herd immunity starts to help. That's 5.46 billion people infected, and every one of them is an opportunity for the virus to mutate and become impervious to any treatments in the pipeline. Not to mention the horrific body count it would entail: 327 million people dead.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
The US is in a really bad place right now, we're so close to a tipping point in so many ways it's incredible...Many Americans may not experiencing one or more of the problems this country is facing currently or perhaps some are but in varying degrees...The US economy is close to if not already in a freefall, some States feeling it more than others right now but if it continues all the States in the Union will suffer...Millions of Americans are hurting right now, we are seeing the beginnings of civil disorder, the media even using the words 'rebels' and 'rebellion' now...Also amongst other things there’s clearly a dangerous political climate brewing within many dynamics of our political systems and elected officials...The events this year could cripple the United States long term politically, socially, and financially...

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nivek

As Above So Below
A second wave would be devastating for any country right now...

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The US is in a really bad place right now, we're so close to a tipping point in so many ways it's incredible...Many Americans may not experiencing one or more of the problems this country is facing currently or perhaps some are but in varying degrees...The US economy is close to if not already in a freefall, some States feeling it more than others right now but if it continues all the States in the Union will suffer...Millions of Americans are hurting right now, we are seeing the beginnings of civil disorder, the media even using the words 'rebels' and 'rebellion' now...Also amongst other things there’s clearly a dangerous political climate brewing within many dynamics of our political systems and elected officials...The events this year could cripple the United States long term politically, socially, and financially...
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And we're only one month into this. How can can the national or even the global system hold it together for another 6 months, or 12 months, or 18 months of this? I don't see how it can, barring some miraculous medical breakthrough. I hate to sound dramatic, but by all indications this looks like the end of the world as we know it.

So maybe now would be a good time to start inventing the world that we want to build when we come out the other side of this, because the system that's collapsing right now was only working favorably for a few percent of the population anyway, and it allowed our industries to move to Communist China which left us totally defenseless to respond to this kind of crisis.

For starters I think we need to rewrite the Constitution to include some key points, like banning private money in politics (all elections need to be funded with public tax dollars), because that one oversight turned our elections into auctions, which is how we ended up with a completely corrupt and dysfunctional government.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
And we're only one month into this.

One month with less than 5% of the US population known to be exposed to the virus and look at all the damage thus far...We're in a damned if we do damned if we don't situation currently, we cannot reopen the country too soon or we risk exposing the other 95% but we cannot stay shut down for too long our economic system will be ruined...The more people exposed opens the door to this virus mutating more and more increasing its resistance against our efforts to stop it...

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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
For starters I think we need to rewrite the Constitution to include some key points, like banning private money in politics (all elections need to be funded with public tax dollars), because that one oversight turned our elections into auctions, which is how we ended up with a completely corrupt and dysfunctional government.

I don't agree with that. It's not that private money should be banned from politics, but more voters should be encouraged to donate for their candidate. Whole idea of democracy is based on idea of balancing opposites, not on banning one or the other opposite. Influence of private money is important, because employers maintain the economy and feed the whole population. It's only natural that they should have influence. It's more of a problem that the opposite side is not organized well in donating money to their candidate. Berni Sanders or AOC can actually rise more money than the richest corporations in US, simply by shear number of their supporters even if average donations are small.

So maybe now would be a good time to start inventing the world that we want to build when we come out the other side of this

For example, more money can be invested into science. It's pretty obviously with Coronavirus how much society depends on science. Specifically both corporations and ultra rich should be taxed for scientific research & development which they get as a corporate welfare. And scientific education is really appalling. People should be thought natural sciences more. Blah, blah, blah ...
 
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I don't agree with that. It's not that private money should be banned from politics, but more voters should be encouraged to donate for their candidate.
Ok first off: that's the system we have now and it's totally, egregiously, and irreparably corrupted from top to bottom. In theory you're right - the poor and middle class could raise enough money to win an election. But there are still two problems. 1.) the billionaires can not only outspend the poor, they also own all of the news media outlets which they use to rig the primaries so we end up nominating a geriatric dementia patient like Joe Biden who is both disinclined and incapable of representing the people of this country. And 2.) the Supreme Court has ruled twice that money is speech and they argued that restrictions on campaign donations from billionaires would be restricting their free speech: but the entire point of our Constitution is that everyone's rights should be equal....so if one person's voice is 1,000,000,000 times louder (or more influential) than somebody's else's, then the fundamental precept of equal representation is completely destroyed.

Whole idea of democracy is based on idea of balancing opposites, not on banning one or the other opposite.
No, it's about equal representation, not "balancing opposites." And if all elections are funded with everyone's tax dollars equally, then our entire population is being represented equally - as the Founding Fathers intended. This way it's not the donor class being represented, and everyone else eating shit. No special private meetings with the donors who could afford to give $1M to a politician. If their campaigns are funded by all of us equally, then they can actually start to represent all of us equally, instead of playing favorites for 100 years until our government becomes a corporate oligarchy, which is what we have now.

Influence of private money is important, because employers maintain the economy and feed the whole population.
It's never been more obvious that this is a lie. The employers do nothing to maintain the economy and feed the people: that's what the working class does. Which is why the global economy has totally tanked: the working class can't work right now and the entire system is collapsing - the employers are powerless to change that because they were never the driving force of the economy: the workers are. Management simply exploits the value produced by the working class for their own selfish ends.

For example, more money can be invested into science. It's pretty obviously with Coronavirus how much society depends on science. Specifically both corporations and ultra rich should be taxed for scientific research & development
I agree that the corporations and the billionaires should be taxed. But at this point they've rigged the system so severely that the corporations and billionaires who are making the most profits, are paying $0 in taxes. If you paid any money in taxes last year, then you personally paid more taxes than Amazon and Jeff Bezos and General Electric combined.

A system that corrupted needs to be destroyed completely, so that a just and rational society can be built in its place. Last year I thought that was going to take a global political revolution, but it looks like nature decided to do it for us. The choice we're faced with now is "what kind of world do we want to create when this is over?" because after decades of terminal illness the current system is going extinct as we watch.
 

spacecase0

earth human
I have given lots of thought as to what kind of world I would like to see after a bad event.
then I look at how most people vote,
things are broken, but seems like they are mostly broken because to many people demand that some things stay broken.
once I see a mindset change, then I will try to point things in a better direction.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I have given lots of thought as to what kind of world I would like to see after a bad event.
then I look at how most people vote,
things are broken, but seems like they are mostly broken because to many people demand that some things stay broken.
once I see a mindset change, then I will try to point things in a better direction.

Its not just about voting, but also about living, whether its a simple life or a complex one, broken people want things to stay broken around them, misery loves company to a certain extent...Why better than before when we can have things the same as before, an unconscious win which many hold, once used to things broken then taking pride in those broken things...There's definitely is work involved for a better direction, and requires effort too, unless there's a train to catch and the bar is open...

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