Deadly Wuhan Coronavirus

nivek

As Above So Below
Scientists race to uncover link between coronavirus and life-threatening inflammation syndrome as dozens more children in New York City are hospitalized with high fevers and mysteriously swollen necks and feet

US scientists are racing to understand a rare, life-threatening inflammatory syndrome in children linked to coronavirus exposure. Cases were first reported in Britain, Italy and Spain, but now the United States is seeing dozens of youngsters with the disorder, which can attack multiple organs, impair heart function and weaken arteries.

This emerging syndrome, which may occur days to weeks after COVID-19 illness, reflects the surprising ways this new virus infects and sickens people. On Wednesday, the New York Department of Health reported 64 cases of the new syndrome as of May 5, and is calling on hospitals to immediately report any cases to the department.

At least one child in Britain has died. No children are believed to have died so far in the US, 'but that could change,' said Dr Sean O'Leary, a pediatric infectious disease expert at Children's Hospital Colorado.

Efforts are underway to collect information on the disorder, dubbed 'Pediatric Multi-System Inflammatory Syndrome Potentially Associated with COVID-19.' This includes hospitals and federal health agencies quickly assembling clinical trials and patient registries to track the syndrome.

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AD1184

Celestial
There was a letter to the journal Nature (The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2) which has been mentioned in every press article about speculation the virus came from the WIV. The researchers conclude that the virus is natural in origin. (From the abstract: "Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.") .

Their reasoning seems to be summed up thus:

While the analyses above suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may bind human ACE2 with high affinity, computational analyses predict that the interaction is not ideal and that the RBD sequence is different from those shown in SARS-CoV to be optimal for receptor binding. Thus, the high-affinity binding of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein to human ACE2 is most likely the result of natural selection on a human or human-like ACE2 that permits another optimal binding solution to arise. This is strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation.

i.e. Because previous computer modelling work did not predict that this receptor binding domain sequence of the virus' RNA would lead to a spike protein that would efficiently bind to human ACE2 receptors, it could not have been intentionally manipulated. This is not terribly persuasive to a non-specialist. It assumes that nobody could have found another way, by computer modelling or otherwise (perhaps borrowing features from other viruses).

A Newsweek article a couple of weeks ago revealed that he US National Institutes of Health, and the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases (headed by Dr. Fauci) provided financial backing to researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (including the missing Chinese 'Batwoman' Shi Zheng-Li) to perform gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.

Dr. Fauci backed controversial Wuhan lab with U.S. dollars for risky coronavirus research

What is gain of function research? In viral research it is work that increases the pathogenicity or transmissibility of viruses. A Dutch team in 2011 took H5N1 influenza, made a few edits to the genome and gave it to ferrets. It killed them but could not transmit between them. They then took the virus from the sick ferrets and gave it to healthy ferrets. They repeated this through ten generations and eventually the H5N1 strain was able to transmit between the ferrets through the air as easily as seasonal flu in humans. It was thought that this mutated strain had human pandemic potential should it have escaped the laboratory. That is gain of function.

Proponents claim that there are benefits to be reaped from this research that outweigh its risks. However, what is risked is potentially everything (clearly demonstrated if the current pandemic is the result of such experiments). A lot of such experiments that have come to light should never have been conducted. Dr. Fauci has made public remarks indicating that he is a proponent of gain-of-function research.

And guess what, the authors of the letter to Nature mentioned above are involved in viral gain of function research, and apparently it is a very small clique of researchers around the world, so there is a possible conflict of interest there, not to mention they are funded by the US NIH which funded the WIV bat coronavirus gain of function research:

Genomic Study Points to Natural Origin of COVID-19

Some claim that the genome of SARS-CoV-2 shows insertions, rather than mere mutations, when compared with genomes of other similar coronaviruses that are not expected as a result of natural processes.

If it is from a Chinese lab as Trump claims, and it is also manipulated, then there is some demonstrable US involvement in that, and so it cannot completely deny responsibility.

However, pouring some cold water on all of that is this from a Cambridge University geneticist as quoted in this Guardian article

Where did Covid-19 come from? What we know about its origins

Problems with the timeline and map of the spread of the virus
While the experts who spoke to the Guardian made clear that understanding of the origins of the virus remained provisional, they added that the current state of knowledge of the initial spread also created problems for the lab escape theory.

When Peter Forster, a geneticist at Cambridge, compared sequences of the virus genome collected early in the Chines outbreak – and later globally – he identified three dominant strains.

Early in the outbreak, two strains appear to have been in circulation at roughly at the same time – strain A and strain B – with a C variant later developing from strain B.

But in a surprise finding, the version with the closest genetic similarity to bat coronavirus was not the one most prevalent early on in the central Chinese city of Wuhan but instead associated with a scattering of early cases in the southern Guangdong province.

Between 24 December 2019 and 17 January 2020, Forster explains, just three out of 23 cases in Wuhan were type A, while the rest were type B. In patients in Guangdong province, however, five out of nine were found to have type A of the virus.

“The very small numbers notwithstanding,” said Forster, “the early genome frequencies until 17 January do not favour Wuhan as an origin over other parts of China, for example five of nine Guangdong/Shenzhen patients who had A types.”

In other words, it still remains far from certain that Wuhan was even necessarily where the virus first emerged.
He says his own findings indicate that the strain most similar to natural bat coronaviruses was circulating with greatest prevalence in Guangdong province in southern China (and the location of the original SARS outbreak in 2002), nowhere near Wuhan. Wuhan, therefore, may not even be the site of the initial Covid-19 outbreak. In which case, the presence of the WIV is merely a coincidence.
 
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Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
The new cases in the US has stayed between 20k-30k a day, Russia has been spiking in new cases but Russian deaths have been remarkably low...Brazil is on a runaway train, the virus is spreading relentlessly through that country and they aren't doing enough to gain control...India has been fortunate thus far, if the virus goes on a rampage through India we could see hundreds of thousands of deaths...

...

View attachment 9657

Can you please include a column with a percentage of coronavirus deaths relative to the size of the population in the country. Quoting total deaths doesn't make sense if countries are of such a different sizes.
 
There was a letter to the journal Nature (The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2) which has been mentioned in every press article about speculation the virus came from the WIV. The researchers conclude that the virus is natural in origin. (From the abstract: "Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.") .

Their reasoning seems to be summed up thus:



i.e. Because previous computer modelling work did not predict that this receptor binding domain sequence of the virus' RNA would lead to a spike protein that would efficiently bind to human ACE2 receptors, it could not have been intentionally manipulated. This is not terribly persuasive to a non-specialist. It assumes that nobody could have found another way, by computer modelling or otherwise (perhaps borrowing features from other viruses).

A Newsweek article a couple of weeks ago revealed that he US National Institutes of Health, and the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases (headed by Dr. Fauci) provided financial backing to researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (including the missing Chinese 'Batwoman' Shi Zheng-Li) to perform gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.

Dr. Fauci backed controversial Wuhan lab with U.S. dollars for risky coronavirus research

What is gain of function research? In viral research it is work that increases the pathogenicity or transmissibility of viruses. A Dutch team in 2011 took H5N1 influenza, made a few edits to the genome and gave it to ferrets. It killed them but could not transmit between them. They then took the virus from the sick ferrets and gave it to healthy ferrets. They repeated this through ten generations and eventually the H5N1 strain was able to transmit between the ferrets through the air as easily as seasonal flu in humans. It was thought that this mutated strain had human pandemic potential should it have escaped the laboratory. That is gain of function.

Proponents claim that there are benefits to be reaped from this research that outweigh its risks. However, what is risked is potentially everything (clearly demonstrated if the current pandemic is the result of such experiments). A lot of such experiments that have come to light should never have been conducted. Dr. Fauci has made public remarks indicating that he is a proponent of gain-of-function research.

And guess what, the authors of the letter to Nature mentioned above are involved in viral gain of function research, and apparently it is a very small clique of researchers around the world, so there is a possible conflict of interest there, not to mention they are funded by the US NIH which funded the WIV bat coronavirus gain of function research:

Genomic Study Points to Natural Origin of COVID-19

Some claim that the genome of SARS-CoV-2 shows insertions, rather than mere mutations, when compared with genomes of other similar coronaviruses that are not expected as a result of natural processes.

If it is from a Chinese lab as Trump claims, and it is also manipulated, then there is some demonstrable US involvement in that, and so it cannot completely deny responsibility.
I remember reading an article about the spike protein of the virus a couple of months ago; a geneticist was saying that computer modeling wouldn't have predicted the effectiveness of this virus' binding to the ACE2 receptor....he said that nature has devised a mechanism that we we wouldn't have been able to anticipate. That seemed like a compelling argument.

So I was thinking that researchers may have simply discovered this virus in the bat population, and it had gotten loose from the Wuhan facility. Or perhaps they'd simply accelerated the natural evolution of the virus by letting it spread through primates subjects; I can see how it would be possible to create a virus that way with no human "fingerprints" on the genome.

But this is pretty persuasive:

However, pouring some cold water on all of that is this from a Cambridge University geneticist as quoted in this Guardian article

Where did Covid-19 come from? What we know about its origins


He says his own findings indicate that the strain most similar to natural bat coronaviruses was circulating with greatest prevalence in Guangdong province in southern China (and the location of the original SARS outbreak in 2002), nowhere near Wuhan. Wuhan, therefore, may not even be the site of the initial Covid-19 outbreak. In which case, the presence of the WIV is merely a coincidence.

It doesn't rule out an origin in Wuhan, but it seems to make a Wuhan origin unlikely. Hopefully that data has been properly vetted; I'd be very reluctant to trust the Chinese government to provide real facts about this - they'd have a strong interest in providing false information to the scientific community if this virus did leak from their lab.

So until I see more data, I'm leaning in favor of the natural origin hypothesis again - though nature may have been helped along by the wet markets. Man, this whole thing is such a rollercoaster ride.
 

Shadowprophet

Truthiness
I don't know, Again I'm not political, So I'm not Trump bashing here, But we went from full-on panic apocalypse to Trump is reopening the country and sure, "people will die, But what can ya do" What has changed here?
I gotta be honest, In the aftermath of recent events, the whole situation feels like it played out in phases.


Phase one, We will worry about it when it gets here.

Phase two, There are only a few cases and they are getting better.

Phase three, Oh shit it's getting worse.

Phase four Here is stimulus money to calm your panic.

Phase five, Fuck it, Let's open the country back up.

The Data of the virus and it's spread really doesn't match how the government is going about handling this situation.
I gotta be fair, Even the most die-hard Trump supporter, would have to admit, Trump, Dropped the ball here, He has closed down the Coronavirus Taskforce briefings, And while those did little to clam peoples fears, It was at least acknowledging the problem and addressing it to the nation, Now, Look, I don't care who supports Trump in whats ways here. This is a forum full of intelligent people who know at least how the position of leadership operates.
Most of us at one point or another have been a mod or a community leader.

I ask, Judge the man by the actions here, He's been wishy-washy about this from day one, And what really illustrates how he dropped the ball was refusing to address the seriousness of the issue until it was almost too late, refusing to take the necessary steps to stop the virus, I know nobody wants a national lockdown, But if we had, The damned thing would already be gone from here.

Did Trump do what was best for the nation? OR did he do what the rich industrial and corporate America wanted?
I mean Damn, In one speech Trump said While Accusing China That even one life lost to this Virus is too many,
Then later he said, "Some people will get sick, And some people will Die but what can we do? we have to open this economy back up.

Look I know some people Will defend Trump To the bitter end, And Trust me I respect your right to do that. That's what America is, Freedom.


But Damn, This isn't just your lives, This is the lives of children and loved ones on the line here, But, Fuck it. Some people will get sick and some people will die, Even though the loss of even one life is too many...

I ask you all in fairness, What Kind of backwater, Backpeddeling wishy-washy Poor leadership bullshit is that?
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Trump and Boris Johnson are both low braw populist
I don't know, Again I'm not political, So I'm not Trump bashing here, But we went from full-on panic apocalypse to Trump is reopening the country and sure, "people will die, But what can ya do" What has changed here?
I gotta be honest, In the aftermath of recent events, the whole situation feels like it played out in phases.


Phase one, We will worry about it when it gets here.

Phase two, There are only a few cases and they are getting better.

Phase three, Oh shit it's getting worse.

Phase four Here is stimulus money to calm your panic.

Phase five, Fuck it, Let's open the country back up.

The Data of the virus and it's spread really doesn't match how the government is going about handling this situation.
I gotta be fair, Even the most die-hard Trump supporter, would have to admit, Trump, Dropped the ball here, He has closed down the Coronavirus Taskforce briefings, And while those did little to clam peoples fears, It was at least acknowledging the problem and addressing it to the nation, Now, Look, I don't care who supports Trump in whats ways here. This is a forum full of intelligent people who know at least how the position of leadership operates.
Most of us at one point or another have been a mod or a community leader.

I ask, Judge the man by the actions here, He's been wishy-washy about this from day one, And what really illustrates how he dropped the ball was refusing to address the seriousness of the issue until it was almost too late, refusing to take the necessary steps to stop the virus, I know nobody wants a national lockdown, But if we had, The damned thing would already be gone from here.

Did Trump do what was best for the nation? OR did he do what the rich industrial and corporate America wanted?
I mean Damn, In one speech Trump said While Accusing China That even one life lost to this Virus is too many,
Then later he said, "Some people will get sick, And some people will Die but what can we do? we have to open this economy back up.

Look I know some people Will defend Trump To the bitter end, And Trust me I respect your right to do that. That's what America is, Freedom.


But Damn, This isn't just your lives, This is the lives of children and loved ones on the line here, But, Fuck it. Some people will get sick and some people will die, Even though the loss of even one life is too many...

I ask you all in fairness, What Kind of backwater, Backpeddeling wishy-washy Poor leadership bullshit is that?

Trump and Boris Johnson are both low braw rabble-rousers or glorified car salesman. It's all fine when going is good for a salesman to tell you what you want to hear. But being second rate shallow and ignorant faker is going to become life-threatening when faced with challenges that can only be solved with scientific reasoning, not the idiotic "common sense".

These two, UK & US, "common sense" idiots are literally killing their own people with their lack of education. Here is the proof that "common sense" is rubish and you need rational reasoning and scientific education. When the figures from the above table are adjusted for the size of the population then the contrast of populist vs scientist becomes glaringly obvious:

US ............ 74,799 / 328.2 x 10^6 = 2.28 x 10^-4 ....... Trump, scientifically uneducated
UK ............ 30,076 / 66.65 x 10^6 = 4.51 x 10^-4 ....... Johnson, scientifically uneducated
Germany .. 7,275 / 83.02 x 10^6 = 8.76 x 10^-5 ......... Merkel, doctorate degree in science

While Germany's Merkel holds a doctorate in science, both US and UK shallow fakers only have a school of hard knocks. If Trump and Johnson were on the same level as Merkel and had a degree in science, instead of being de facto nothing more than celebrities, then the above death figures would look like this:

US .......... 28,760 ( or 46,039 people killed by Donald Trump's ignorance )
UK .......... 5,840 ( or 24,235 people killed by Boris Johnson's ignorance )

Both Trump and Johnson are known as small-time crooks and fakers. Trump is hiding his educational record and his tax record and Johnson lied about EU costing UK £400M per week. The downside of electing glorified car salesmen is that between them killed 34,600 of their own people.

What I am trying to say is that over the last 300 years scientific reasoning distinguished itself as the most successful of all kinds of human ways of thinking. It's not about being on the left or on the right, but about taking advantage of the success of the scientific reasoning and making a condition for elected representatives to have degree in science!!
 
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Shadowprophet

Truthiness
Trump and Boris Johnson are both low braw populist


Trump and Boris Johnson are both low braw rabble-rousers or glorified car salesman. It's all fine when going is good for a salesman to tell you what you want to hear. But being second rate shallow and ignorant faker is going to become life-threatening when faced with challenges that can only be solved with scientific reasoning, not the idiotic "common sense".

These two, UK & US, "common sense" idiots are literally killing their own people with their lack of education. Here is the proof that "common sense" is rubish and you need rational reasoning and scientific education. When the figures from the above table are adjusted for the size of the population then the contrast of populist vs scientist becomes glaringly obvious:

US ............ 74,799 / 328.2 x 10^6 = 2.28 x 10^-4 ....... Trump, scientifically uneducated
UK ............ 30,076 / 66.65 x 10^6 = 4.51 x 10^-4 ....... Johnson, scientifically uneducated
Germany .. 7,275 / 83.02 x 10^6 = 8.76 x 10^-5 ......... Merkel, doctorate degree in science

While Germany's Merkel holds a doctorate in science, both US and UK shallow fakers only have a school of hard knocks. If Trump and Johnson were on the same level as Merkel and had a degree in science, instead of being de facto nothing more than celebrities, then the above death figures would look like this:

US .......... 28,760 ( or 46,039 people killed by Donald Trump's ignorance )
UK .......... 5,840 ( or 24,235 people killed by Boris Johnson's ignorance )

Both Trump and Johnson are known as small-time crooks and fakers. Trump is hiding his educational record and his tax record and Johnson lied about EU costing UK £400M per week. The downside of electing glorified car salesmen is that between them killed 34,600 of their own people.

What I am trying to say is that over the last 300 years scientific reasoning distinguished itself as the most successful of all kinds of human ways of thinking. And we should be smart and take advantage of that and make a condition for elected representatives to have degree in science!!

I agree it would really be beneficial to select the most qualified person for the job, Here is a Sad truth about the U.S mindset. In the U.S It's truthfully not about who is most qualified for the job, I don't say this As A Jab At America, I mean the whole point is that we get to choose our leaders, But think back. here in the U.S, It's always been a simple popularity contest. I mean, We hail Ronald Regan as one of our most influential presidents And truthfully he was. Trump wishes he was Regan, But, The truth is, Ronald Reagan won because he was a famous Hollywood actor. And while he did do a lot in the office, He stood by "programmed values" What I mean by this is, Reagan was not an independent thinker, He allowed the Congress to carry his weight.. Which in fairness is what a president is supposed to do, But I ask, What is a man who can't or doesn't think for himself? Who doesn't have his own values? Trump couldn't be more opposite to Ronal Reagan, Trump has an agenda, He will have his way, and to anyone who opposes him, If he can't have them fired or removed, Then he called them, Low I.Q people and Fake news.

My thing is this, Even the hardest core Trump supporters know, That they like him because He's a loose cannon, He's the kind of guy who at a briefing will tell China to go suck an egg and walk away with National relations exploding like a Michael Bay movie.

It's a popularity contest. And to be fair, If America wants Bugs Bunney as their president. Then so be it, See, People will take offense that I said this, But, I say I'm not affiliated, But I am A Republican. My thing is, I am a republican from a time that believes the entire country matters, that the thoughts of the Gop and the democratic party all matter. That we as a nation, our thoughts out wishes all matter, I am a republican from before the divide. I care about us all, Not just my party.

Here is what I see happening. It may not be this term, But eventually, People here in the U.S will begin demanding qualified people, And sure along the way our economy and international relations may be destroyed, But those things can be repaired. Some day, we will get to see light at the end of this tunnel, But right now, We have elected a 1980's corporate power shark to run the country,.
We did that for the economy's sake. in fairness. Trump did do a fantastic job with the economy, but he handled this virus poorly, He has not suited to handle a situation like a pandemic, So the outcome of this Virus in the U.S was the result of the perfect storm of situations a corporate power shark could not be prepared for, however, I don't fully blame Trump, For literal decades now, I have known that the president is literally nothing more than the poster child for the nation, honestly, A great many people other than just trump has dropped the ball, I think it's clearly obvious that corporate America is leading our government at this point.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Although hard to believe, I found this article. Dr Luc Montagnier world-renown virologist and Nobel laureate. Unfortunately, sicientist's simple quest for truth got mixed up with politics.

"This April 16th, Dr. Luc Montagnier became a household name around the world. This occurred as the controversial virologist decided to publicly state his support for the theory that Covid-19 is indeed a laboratory-generated creation and not a naturally occurring effect of viral evolution.

Montagnier’s political ignorance became all too clear when he was asked who the culprit could possibly be.

By asserting his belief that China’s BSL4 lab in Wuhan was the source, Montagnier has fallen into a trap set by Anglo-American Intelligence circles which have been promoting a military confrontation between the USA and China for a very long time.
"

Big Pharma Beware: Dr. Montagnier Shines New Light on COVID-19 and The Future of Medicine
 
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AD1184

Celestial
Trump and Boris Johnson are both low braw populist


Trump and Boris Johnson are both low braw rabble-rousers or glorified car salesman. It's all fine when going is good for a salesman to tell you what you want to hear. But being second rate shallow and ignorant faker is going to become life-threatening when faced with challenges that can only be solved with scientific reasoning, not the idiotic "common sense".

These two, UK & US, "common sense" idiots are literally killing their own people with their lack of education. Here is the proof that "common sense" is rubish and you need rational reasoning and scientific education. When the figures from the above table are adjusted for the size of the population then the contrast of populist vs scientist becomes glaringly obvious:

US ............ 74,799 / 328.2 x 10^6 = 2.28 x 10^-4 ....... Trump, scientifically uneducated
UK ............ 30,076 / 66.65 x 10^6 = 4.51 x 10^-4 ....... Johnson, scientifically uneducated
Germany .. 7,275 / 83.02 x 10^6 = 8.76 x 10^-5 ......... Merkel, doctorate degree in science

While Germany's Merkel holds a doctorate in science, both US and UK shallow fakers only have a school of hard knocks. If Trump and Johnson were on the same level as Merkel and had a degree in science, instead of being de facto nothing more than celebrities, then the above death figures would look like this:

US .......... 28,760 ( or 46,039 people killed by Donald Trump's ignorance )
UK .......... 5,840 ( or 24,235 people killed by Boris Johnson's ignorance )

Both Trump and Johnson are known as small-time crooks and fakers. Trump is hiding his educational record and his tax record and Johnson lied about EU costing UK £400M per week. The downside of electing glorified car salesmen is that between them killed 34,600 of their own people.

What I am trying to say is that over the last 300 years scientific reasoning distinguished itself as the most successful of all kinds of human ways of thinking. It's not about being on the left or on the right, but about taking advantage of the success of the scientific reasoning and making a condition for elected representatives to have degree in science!!
You said here that "UK is the best organized country in the world when it comes to coronavirus. Lowest daily deaths rise, lowest number of infected ppl. Really proud to be British." At least you have finally realized that the British response has been disastrous. I do not think that the reason is so simple as our prime minister not having previously been a scientist before being a politician.

Johnson has not lead well in this, but he is also the victim (along with the rest of us), of a pandemic response plan that was first drawn up by scientists in the mid-2000s, and has been revised several times since by scientists and which contains flawed assumptions. Johnson has also been taking the advice of learned scientists in this crisis, and a lot of that advice has been poor, and grossly out of step with that taken by countries which have dealt with this pandemic with relative success. Rejecting a lot of this advice on the grounds of common sense and going with common-sense notions to formulate a response might well have been a better strategy.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
You said here that "UK is the best organized country in the world when it comes to coronavirus. Lowest daily deaths rise, lowest number of infected ppl. Really proud to be British." At least you have finally realized that the British response has been disastrous. I do not think that the reason is so simple as our prime minister not having previously been a scientist before being a politician.

Johnson has not lead well in this, but he is also the victim (along with the rest of us), of a pandemic response plan that was first drawn up by scientists in the mid-2000s, and has been revised several times since by scientists and which contains flawed assumptions. Johnson has also been taking the advice of learned scientists in this crisis, and a lot of that advice has been poor, and grossly out of step with that taken by countries which have dealt with this pandemic with relative success. Rejecting a lot of this advice on the grounds of common sense and going with common-sense notions to formulate a response might well have been a better strategy.

Yup, got it off by 100 miles.

In the beginning scientific advice got it that coronavirus is less lethal than flu. But still, science is not about getting it 100% right, just about being right 10 times more often than the common sense. Common sense has zero chance against pandemic decease, because of consequences for economy. It's really extremely high stakes call. Bank of England is predicting that in 2020 economy will shrink by 14%.
 

AD1184

Celestial
Yup, got it off by 100 miles.

In the beginning scientific advice got it that coronavirus is less lethal than flu. But still, science is not about getting it 100% right, just about being right 10 times more often than the common sense. Common sense has zero chance against pandemic decease, because of consequences for economy. It's really extremely high stakes call. Bank of England is predicting that in 2020 economy will shrink by 14%.
Common sense would have told you:
  • this was an emergency situation by January.
  • inbound infections should have been halted by travel restrictions.
  • national testing capacity should have been increased in earnest as soon as this situation came to light (in January).
  • rampant testing remains useful at all stages of the epidemic.
  • testing, tracing and isolation should not be abandoned at any stage.
  • isolation hospitals and halfway houses for recovering infected must have been provisioned for.
  • allowing such a dangerous virus to sweep through the population with minimal intervention is an untenable strategy.
  • the influenza pandemic response plan was not a viable blueprint for a response to a SARS-like coronavirus.
  • all local resources (including 10,000+ environmental health staff nationwide who were sidelined) should have been pressed into the fight against the epidemic
  • the social distancing advice given out in mid-March should have been given much earlier
  • large gatherings should have been banned much earlier.
  • if we were going to lock down, we should have done it much earlier.
  • the wearing of masks/face coverings should have been encouraged much earlier.
  • people should have been advised to work from home where possible much earlier.
All of these common sense ideas were disparaged and/or blocked by the scientific, medical and public health establishment in this country. We are steadily re-learning the fundamentals of how to fight epidemics and slowly coming around to this way of thinking, but much too late.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Common sense would have told you:
  • this was an emergency situation by January.
  • inbound infections should have been halted by travel restrictions.
  • national testing capacity should have been increased in earnest as soon as this situation came to light (in January).
  • rampant testing remains useful at all stages of the epidemic.
  • testing, tracing and isolation should not be abandoned at any stage.
  • isolation hospitals and halfway houses for recovering infected must have been provisioned for.
  • allowing such a dangerous virus to sweep through the population with minimal intervention is an untenable strategy.
  • the influenza pandemic response plan was not a viable blueprint for a response to a SARS-like coronavirus.
  • all local resources (including 10,000+ environmental health staff nationwide who were sidelined) should have been pressed into the fight against the epidemic
  • the social distancing advice given out in mid-March should have been given much earlier
  • large gatherings should have been banned much earlier.
  • if we were going to lock down, we should have done it much earlier.
  • the wearing of masks/face coverings should have been encouraged much earlier.
  • people should have been advised to work from home where possible much earlier.
All of these common sense ideas were disparaged and/or blocked by the scientific, medical and public health establishment in this country. We are steadily re-learning the fundamentals of how to fight epidemics and slowly coming around to this way of thinking, but much too late.

That's common sense in hindsight.
 

AD1184

Celestial
That's common sense in hindsight.
No it certainly is not. A child could have thought of these things. Other countries had thought of these things, and did not have the stupid notions that the British establishment did that led them not to do them.

All sorts of people were questioning why the government was not acting sooner. Just because you didn't have a clue what was happening didn't meant that other people did not know what to expect. Why were thousands of people allowed to carry on arriving from China and other places, without any health screening at airports or quarantine, we were wondering? Why was the government's strategy defeatist from the outset?

I wrote to both my MP and the Prime Minister's Office before any government advice was given to the public (save to wash your hands while singing Happy Birthday). I asked my MP to apply pressure upon the government to take more action, and I asked the PM to take action. In some cases it has only come to light after the fact that the science and health establishment had concocted all sorts of arguments against taking any action until it was already too late. But if someone uneducated was in charge and was unaware of what they were saying, then they would probably have acted sooner.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
No it certainly is not. A child could have thought of these things. Other countries had thought of these things, and did not have the stupid notions that the British establishment did that led them not to do them.

All sorts of people were questioning why the government was not acting sooner. Just because you didn't have a clue what was happening didn't meant that other people did not know what to expect. Why were thousands of people allowed to carry on arriving from China and other places, without any health screening at airports or quarantine, we were wondering? Why was the government's strategy defeatist from the outset?

I wrote to both my MP and the Prime Minister's Office before any government advice was given to the public (save to wash your hands while singing Happy Birthday). I asked my MP to apply pressure upon the government to take more action, and I asked the PM to take action. In some cases it has only come to light after the fact that the science and health establishment had concocted all sorts of arguments against taking any action until it was already too late. But if someone uneducated was in charge and was unaware of what they were saying, then they would probably have acted sooner.

Are you a medical professional? You sound like somebody who knows much about these things.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
World War II vet celebrates victory over COVID-19

KANSAS CITY For 99-year-old Max Deweese, fighting off COVID-19 was just another battle won. Deweese said he doesn't know how he contracted COVID-19, but when he started having symptoms he went to St. Luke’s South Hospital in Lee’s Summit, Kansas.

Later, Deweese was admitted to Ignite Medical Resorts in Kansas City, Kansas on April 15. After getting the green light, the World War II veteran was released from Ignite Thursday with a big celebration full of applause and cheers.

A mix of medical professionals, law enforcement, firefighters and members of the community were there to see him walk out of the facility. Deweese also received a couple medals, saying he beat coronavirus along with a plaque.

Fighting off this virus was not easy for Deweese. "99-years-old and didn’t succumb to the virus. Oh, I was sick — there was no question about that,” Deweese said. “I’ve gone through hell more than once and this came almost as close.”


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Toroid

Founding Member

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEIJWO44YQw
Published on May 10, 2020
White House coronavirus task force member Dr. Anthony Fauci plans to follow a “modified quarantine,” including wearing a mask and limited outside contact, and CDC director Dr. Robert Redfield and FDA head Dr. Stephen Hahn will remain at home for two weeks after they were exposed to someone with the coronavirus. NBC’s Kelly O’Donnell reports for Sunday TODAY, and Meet the Press moderator Chuck Todd and CNBC’s Aaron Ross Sorkin join with analysis.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Coronavirus CAN enter the body through the eyes: Scientists find eye cells are a prime target for the deadly virus to attach to

Scientists have claimed the coronavirus can enter the body through the eyes after finding they contain a protein used by the infection to bind to cells.

The coronavirus - scientifically called SARS-CoV-2 - latches onto ACE-2 receptors, known as the 'gateway' into cells inside body.

These receptors are found in the respiratory tract and the lungs, which is where the virus first infiltrates cells, as well as other organs.

A team led by Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine have now found the eyes produce ACE-2, making them a target for the virus.

It means if droplets from an infected person's sneeze or cough were to land on the surface of the eye, the virus could begin infiltrating cells there.

It may explain why some patients have suffered conjunctivitis - an inflammation of the eye which causes it to become red and infected.

Not only could the virus enter the body through the eyes, but tears may serve as a spread of infection, scientists said.


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nivek

As Above So Below
Latest Pet That Tested Positive

On April 27, 2020, there was a report of a pug in North Carolina tested positive for COVID-19. It is believed to be the first case of a dog contracting the virus in the U.S. Duke University studied the McClean’s family in Chapel Hill. The whole family, including Wiston the pug, was tested for COVID-19. The father, mother (professor of pediatrics at Duke University School of Medicine) Heather McClean, son, and Wiston tested positive for COVID-19. The daughter, a second dog, and a cat tested negative for the virus.

The principal investigator for the Duke study, Dr. Chris Woods, believes Wiston may be the first dog in the U.S. to be confirmed to have the virus. McClean states that Wiston has mild symptoms from COVID-19.

She said, “Pugs are a little unusual in that they cough and sneeze in a very strange way.” McClean adds, “it almost seems like he was gagging, and there was one day when he didn’t want to eat his breakfast.” It is a well-known fact that pugs love to eat, therefore it was extremely “unusual” for Wiston to not eat.

McClean’s son believes that Winston contracted the virus because he would lick their dinner plates and sleep with his parents. Authorities mention that they are still learning about COVID-19. At this time the only evidence between animal-to-human contraction is from human to animal.

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nivek

As Above So Below
Latest Pet That Tested Positive

On April 27, 2020, there was a report of a pug in North Carolina tested positive for COVID-19. It is believed to be the first case of a dog contracting the virus in the U.S. Duke University studied the McClean’s family in Chapel Hill. The whole family, including Wiston the pug, was tested for COVID-19. The father, mother (professor of pediatrics at Duke University School of Medicine) Heather McClean, son, and Wiston tested positive for COVID-19. The daughter, a second dog, and a cat tested negative for the virus.

The principal investigator for the Duke study, Dr. Chris Woods, believes Wiston may be the first dog in the U.S. to be confirmed to have the virus. McClean states that Wiston has mild symptoms from COVID-19.

She said, “Pugs are a little unusual in that they cough and sneeze in a very strange way.” McClean adds, “it almost seems like he was gagging, and there was one day when he didn’t want to eat his breakfast.” It is a well-known fact that pugs love to eat, therefore it was extremely “unusual” for Wiston to not eat.

McClean’s son believes that Winston contracted the virus because he would lick their dinner plates and sleep with his parents. Authorities mention that they are still learning about COVID-19. At this time the only evidence between animal-to-human contraction is from human to animal.

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There's likely hundreds or thousands of pets who have or have had Covid-19, as humans there's minuscule testing being done so there's virtually no testing being done on dogs or cats or ferrets...Lack of testing sure does benefit those who wish to downplay the seriousness of this virus and downplay its spread...

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