Alec Baldwin Accidentally Shoots and Kills Someone

Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by wwkirk, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    I don't know how things are actually done on movie sets, but commonsense suggests that when it comes to weapons, the armorer would somehow secure chain of custody of any weapon that was to be used. Is that how it works in reality?

    Also, are armorers certified in any manner whatsoever?

    Finally, I hate sounding like a boomer saying this (even though I am one), but at age 24 shouldn't she be an apprentice or something, rather than the head person?
     
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  2. AD1184

    AD1184 Noble

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    And just whose fault are these failings if not the 'head armourer'? One of the attributes implied by the word 'head' is responsibility. i.e. All armoury-related issues are ultimately that person's responsibility. Her attorneys saying these things makes it seem that she wanted the recognition of a 'head armourer' but the responsibilities of a work experience kid.

    If you entrusted your car to an airport parking firm while you went on a trip abroad, and you returned to find your car had been stolen, and the firm offered as explanation that the vehicle had been unlocked and unattended at all times, you might justifiably apportion as much of the blame onto the company as onto the thief who stole the car.

    If you take a job where you are responsible for safety and you have misgivings about the safety of the work environment then you should make your concerns known to your employer. If your employer refuses to take your concerns seriously, or will not give you the resources needed to enforce safety, then you should quit on principle and make it known why you are quitting. Especially as this was a temporary job of only a few months' duration, if that. You should also blow the whistle on the employer with occupational safety authorities. Anything less is unprofessional and unethical. However, the attorneys are saying that their client continued in the job despite having massive safety misgivings in her area of responsibility, but which the working conditions somehow put outside of her capacity to manage. Was she somehow coerced into staying in the job and staying quiet?

    They are also saying that she took on a second role in the production concurrent with her armourer role. If this was a problem, would not a head armourer be able to say to the producers 'my responsibilities as head armourer prevent me from taking on additional responsibilities during production'? Apparently not, and now they are saying that the fact that she had a dual role is a potential factor in the accident.


    They are also now talking about 'dummy rounds', which I believe are not the same thing as blank rounds. A blank round is a live cartridge with no bullet. A dummy round is a cartridge with a bullet, but no primer or propellant. A dummy round is supposed to look like a real bullet, whereas a blank round is not. That would make some sense of the confusion required to put the wrong ammunition in the revolver.

    It is still a risky way to go about adding veracity to a film, by using mixed ammunition types in a real, un-deactivated revolver, depending on what is being done with it (i.e. blanks for shooting scenes, dummy rounds for close-ups of the front of the revolver, and also using it outside of filming for informal target practice with live ammunition, as some sources have alleged).
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  3. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Celestial

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    I didn't think it could get any more idiotic, but I should stop thinking things like that.

    Next it will be JFK Jr. that did it.
     
  4. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    In the current episode of the original NCIS, the victim was killed by means of a blank round. Interesting.
    (I assume the episode was produced long before the Baldwin incident.)
     
  5. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Yup. If you have a need for realism a dummy round a real lead bullet would be required for a revolver because you can see them from the front. A revolver is self explanatory. Generally, a pistol is a semi-auto and that doesn't apply. With semi-autos in competition the spent brass is ejected all over. It's extremely common to use brightly colored nail polish to identify your own brass so you can reload it. Common courtesy to the next shooter. Seems like when we're talking about realistic dummy rounds, revolver cartridges with no primer and distinct colors should be in use.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  6. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    And no, you don't leave live ammo anywhere near a training session, EVER. The problem isn't the technical details or even the age of the armorer. My 17 year old great-nephew would not have made that mistake - my brother and I ingrained basic safety in him from Day 1 before he ever touched a real firearm.

    When it comes to firearms in ANY situation the safety isn't a gadget, it's the shooter. I know nothing of movie sets and if the actors aren't responsible, and I don't believe necessarily that they are, then the responsibility rests with the armorer. Even the AD who handed the weapon to the actor might not be responsible as the weapons were apparently left out for use.

    That said, expert or no there has to be more to this story - why was that young woman there in the first place?
     
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  7. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Deactivated. Got a m1903 Springfield rifle hanging on the wall right next to me. .30-06 rifle, this one circa 1910. No longer safe to shoot so it's a hanger. I removed the original firing pin and put in a readily available replacement that I filed down to a nub. You could jam all the live ammo you want in it an it'll never fire. But not in a million years would I ever point it at someone and pull the trigger, ever. You want to point a weapon at a camera or a person that's an entirely different story.

    This is negligence, pure and simple. Just a question of where to spread it around.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  8. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    From memory, the original crew walked out earlier that day. She was among a new last minute substitute crew.
     
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  9. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Celestial

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    I only skimmed that mess because I didn't want to ruin my dinner, but it seems that part of the defense is the claim that the gun was left unattended for two hours or something. Is Rudy Giuliani on the legal team? As pigfarmer says, it's negligence no matter how you slice it.
     
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  10. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I know I go on at length about this. But if I had been playing the trombone my whole life and Alec Baldwin killed someone with a trombone I'd have what-to-say about that too. This seems so clear to me. The police investigation seems to be proceeding quietly while the interwebs are loading up with speculation and inexpert opinions. I guess we'll see.
     
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  11. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Alec Baldwin and his Rust crew are accused of breaking at least FOUR movie industry gun safety rules before actor shot and killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins

    (Excerpt)

    The rules - last revised in April 2003 - warn: 'Refrain from pointing the firearm at anyone, including yourself. If it is absolutely necessary to do so on camera, consult the property master or other safety representative... Remember that any object at which you point a firearm could be destroyed.'

    Baldwin is said to have broken that rule by pointing the gun at Hutchins and firing, killing her, having been told moments before that the gun was 'cold' - empty of rounds.

    Guidance goes on to state that live ammunition must never be brought onto a set, with the document also warning 'BLANKS CAN KILL.'

    It continues: 'TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS THOUGH THEY ARE LOADED. "LIVE AMMUNITION" IS NEVER TO BE USED NOR BROUGHT ONTO ANY STUDIO LOT OR STAGE.'

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  12. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    So why did Baldwin fire the weapon if the scene did not require him to?..

    ...

    Rust electrician who held dying Halyna Hutchins in his arms reveals 'scene did NOT require Alec Baldwin to shoot the revolver' as he sues for 'emotional distress'

    [​IMG]

    Head electrician on the Rust movie set Serge Svetnoy has sued Alec Baldwin, rookie armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed (bottom right with guns) and assistant director Dave Halls (inset blue shirt). He claimed that the negligence that led to Hutchins' death has caused him 'severe emotional distress' he's unsure if he can recover from. Svetnoy sued Baldwin for his negligence as an actor and as a producer of the movie, claiming that 'the scene did not call for (him) to shoot the Colt Revolver'. In a tribute post to Hutchins on Facebook Svetnoy said he 'was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Halyna' when she was fatally shot. 'I was holding her in my arms while she was dying. Her blood was on my hands,' he added before filing the suit, which asked for damages and a jury trial.

    .
     
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  13. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Well, he's absolutely right. Negligence and unprofessionalism resulted in the death of a human being. The armorer and assistant directed are clearly in the spotlight but the production company as a whole is responsible for the working conditions on the set. First let's see what, if any, criminal charges are filed. Hopefully the silence in that regard speaks to a thorough investigation.
     
  14. Double Nought Spy

    Double Nought Spy Celestial

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    I saw the sheriff on a TV clip, he seems to be a competent pro, to the extent one can tell from a short video clip. The fellow who resigned the previous day, I forget his name and job, was on TV looking very uncomfortable with everything about it. He quit because of several things, but safety concerns were high on the list, and he specifically mentioned the poor discipline with firearms. That has to be damning in court. I've walked off job sites where I was making good money for similar reasons, so I kind of know how he feels. He worked closely with the woman who was killed and had a lot of respect for her, so it has to be a terrible situation for him. There is also the question of what might have happened that day if he had not quit in disgust. I don't think any decent person would be able to avoid that kind of second guessing.

    Baldwin is in deep shit, as both the person pointing the gun and as the producer. He is ultimately responsible for everyone hired to make the film, competent or otherwise. The more I learn about the "armorer", the more aghast I am that she wasn't canned before something like this happened. She seems to have flouted every rule, custom, or convention she could. Not to mention her apparently complete lack of common sense.
     
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  15. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Alec chose to play Russian Roulette': Rust script supervisor breaks down in tears as she SUES Baldwin over Halyna Hutchins' death because he 'cocked and fired the gun even though the scene didn't call for it'

    [​IMG]

    The suit names names nearly two dozen defendants associated with the film including Baldwin, Rust producers and production companies, armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, First Assistant Director David Halls and others. Mitchell was standing close to the Director of Photography, Halyna Hutchins, when the Bullet from Alec Baldwin's gun fatally shot her and then Injured the Director of 'Rust,' and her attorney, Gloria Allred, filed a lawsuit which contains new allegations concerning what happened on the day of the tragic incident.

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  16. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    George Clooney irritates me on a number of levels so I didn't bother finding a link to the story, but it seems in an interview he calls out Baldwin and that entire production mess - says he's never heard the term 'cold gun' and that great effort is made on the part of all concerned to demonstrate that the weapon is safe. Also that as an actor he takes personal responsibility to check himself and make sure an armorer does, nobody else. Frankly, that's how I had expected it to work on a movie set and it wasn't until this shitshow came to light that I thought otherwise.

    If they were handling dangerous snakes would you expect someone other than the snake wrangler to just hand you one?

    As an aside, many of the firearms you see - machine guns and the like - are just shooting propane to make the flash and can't fire a projectile. I'd imagine they have a whole different list of safety concerns
     
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  17. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    'Rust' shooting: Alec Baldwin lawyers up after being hit with lawsuits

    Alec Baldwin has hired attorney Aaron S. Dyer of New York-based law firm Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman after being targeted by multiple lawsuits for his involvement in the "Rust" set shooting, Fox News Digital has confirmed.

    The news comes after Baldwin was targeted by lawsuits filed by script supervisor Mamie Mitchell and gaffer Serge Svetnoy.

    Baldwin was handed a Colt revolver by assistant director Dave Halls while rehearsing a scene for the indie-western on Oct. 21. Baldwin fired the gun, which was loaded with a live round that discharged, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza.

    Mitchell is claiming assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress and deliberate infliction of harm in her lawsuit.

    The lawsuit claimed that Baldwin "intentionally, without just cause or excuse, cocked and fired a loaded gun" even though the upcoming scene "did not call for the cocking and firing of a firearm." The lawsuit also claimed Baldwin pointed and fired the gun at Hutchins, Joel Souza and Mitchell even though that was against protocol.

    Svetnoy's lawsuit also noted that Baldwin was only supposed to have pointed the gun at the camera and not anyone else. Svetnoy claimed Baldwin "owed a duty" to the gaffer and other crew members to handle the gun as he would a loaded weapon.

    [More at link.]
     
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  18. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Celestial

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    I imagine the lawsuits are going to be the largest punishment that arises from this incident. The burden of proof is lower, and the plaintiff will be a high powered injury law firm instead of a prosecutor from a poor state.
     
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  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Yep guns just don't fire off by themselves, someone has to pull the trigger and the gun was in Baldwin's hand...

    ...

    Alec Baldwin's claim he didn't pull trigger on 'Rust' questioned by sheriff: 'Guns don't just go off'

    Alec Baldwin claimed he did not pull the trigger on the set of "Rust," but gun experts say that a revolver firing without the trigger being pulled is unlikely.

    In a preview for an upcoming televised tell-all, Baldwin addresses the fact that he was holding a gun that was somehow loaded with a live bullet that should not have been on the set at all, let alone in an actor’s hand. The Oct. 21 incident left cinematographer Halyna Hutchins dead and director Joel Souza injured.

    During the preview, which is heavily edited for the purpose of teasing the larger interview that’s set to air Thursday evening, an emotional Baldwin states unequivocally that he did not pull the trigger.

    "The trigger wasn’t pulled. I didn’t pull the trigger," Baldwin told George Stephanopoulos.


    (More on the link)

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  20. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    That sounds like BS to me. Baldwin wants to be a victim
     
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