Are UFOs 'Nuts & Bolts' Or Spiritual?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Georgek, May 30, 2019.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    Yep. And what's so impressive about that Guidelines to Antigravity paper - Robert Forward shows how a dipolar gravitational field can be generated with a changing current of fluid driven through a toroidal coil, exactly as an electric dipole can be generated with a changing current through a conductive toroidal coil.

    The resulting fields even take on the same shape, and obey the same Gaussian law, but with gravitoelectromagnetism you're warping spacetime itself. The key difference is that gravitoelectric charges the sign of the interaction is the opposite as with electrical charges so like gravitational charges attract rather than repel
     
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  2. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Celestial

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    Why than some say that gravitomagnetic field is quadropole, I mean field with 4 poles. Is that some special case?
     
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  3. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    A quadrupolar electrical charge distribution is equivalent to an arrangement of four electric charges, two positive and two negative. This applies to gravitational "mass charge" distributions as well. For example the Earth isn't spherical, it's an oblate spheroid, so its mass-charge distribution has a quadrupolar component, because an oblate spheroid is equivalent to a spherical charge distribution that's modulated by four gravitational mass-charge poles. This is why gravitational radiation is quadrupolar - it's only produced by a changing quadrupolar (or higher multipole) mass-charge distribution, like a binary star system undergoing major-axis rotation.

    But as Robert L. Forward showed in his 1990 paper Negative Matter Propulsion, which was based on earlier work by Hermann Bondi in 1957, an opposing pair of gravitoelectric charges will self-accelerate along their alignment axis due to the sign of the charge interactions. He illustrated the concept in its simplest Newtonian form four years before Alcubierre designed a slightly more complex solution in the tensor field language of general relativity, but they're very similar solutions in nature. Robert Forward simply focused on the mass-charges, whereas Alcubierre focused on the spacetime metric. They've both only been interesting in the sense of a theoretical toy model though, because both solutions require high densities of negative mass-charge, which is probably physically unattainable.

    That's why Jack Wisdom's 2003 Swimming in Spacetime concept for a new form of gravitational field propulsion is so interesting - he showed that an oscillating quadrupole comprised only of four positive charges can climb upward within a gravitational field. In my mind the significance of Dr. Wisdom's discovery cannot be overstated because it represents the first form of gravitational field propulsion to be discovered which requires neither exotic negative mass-energy, nor extremely high magnitudes of high mass-energy.

    So I think it's only a matter of time and ingenuity for the next theoretical breakthrough in the field of gravitational field propulsion, before we discover a propulsion concept which is both technologically realizable and ideally suited to achieve superluminal interstellar spaceflight, as so many of our galactic neighbors seem to have already achieved.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  4. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    While we are on the subject, Can we discuss White holes? With recent developments concerning black holes, It's piqued my curiosity on white holes.

    What are your thoughts, Well, Let me be more specific, What are your thoughts on the possibility of a white hole ever existing? Even as an anomaly or something with an incredibly short half-life, I say this because I'd like to get into the deeper discussion about What effects a white hole may have on spacetime. I've considered many options, Ultimately, I am only able to arrive that a White hole would not possess a similar effect on space-time as compared to a black hole, Perhaps locally to its event horizon it would have some effect on space-time,

    But I am having trouble picturing this event. I can only assume, Spacetime would be pulled away from a white hole. Possibly creating some sort of Spacetime bubble around it. making it invisible to the naked eye. Provided you even subscribe to white hole theory, Presume this space-time bubble did surround a white hole. Well, That's a space-time bubble, In theory, that should basically be a warp drive, If white holes did exist, My assumption is they are not static with the expansion of the universe, they could literally be traveling so amazingly fast, We could not detect them. I feel that white holes being in some regards the complete adverse of a black hole, That white holes may express their properties via acceleration. I don't know, I could be wrong.

    I discuss this, As if you are subscribed to white holes, Lol, My bad, I just really wanted to discuss this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  5. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    I'm a somewhat boring empiricist, so I don't give white holes much credence. If somebody detects one, or we suddenly see a compelling theoretical reason to take them seriously, then I'll change my tune.

    They definitely don't accelerate of their own accord - it would take a gravitational dipole to make that happen, and white holes have a single static spherical mass-charge distribution so they stay put.
     
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  6. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Celestial

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    Do you possibly have a picture of this gravitational quadropole with fields around it? It's just hard to imagine how the fields would mesh up together.
     
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  7. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    Here you go - it works exactly the same for gravitational quadrupoles as electric quadrupoles:

    ScreenHunter_1238 Jun. 27 05.41.jpg
    Electric Quadrupole
     
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  8. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Would these Quadpoles always be so evenly distributed or is this just a perfect example?

    Would a dipole necessarily have to be at a perfect symmetrical distance to one another?

    [​IMG]
    I realize this is a fantastic fantasy situation example, I'm just toying with ideas here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  9. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    It's very rare for anything to have a perfect quadrupolar distribution; usually the irregularities are described by higher multipole expansions.
     
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  10. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Celestial

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    And there would be negative gravitational charges, as shown in that picture?

    So Earh's oblate spheroid wold have two negative gravitational charges above South and North pole?
     
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  11. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Celestial

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    OK, I found this online simulation. This is how it would fields look like:

    0037.jpg

    It's interesting that INTERNALLY there would be an attractive force between red positive charges and repulsive force between blue negative charges. So, yes, one would end up with an spherical obloid. But the wider side of the obloid would be vertical, a bit counter-intuitive, because we perceive Earth's obloid as horizontal :).

    EXTERNALLY there would be repulsive force just outside positive blue poles and attractive force just outside the red negative poles.

    Interesting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  12. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Celestial

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    This is one very interesting derivation of GTR from electric and magnetic field. What is interesting is that it is experimentally verifiable. Practically it supports idea that ionic lifter do loose weight because of relativistic effects, not just because of ionic wind.

    Prediction is that at 144GV one would be able to achieve 1g acceleration. 144GV is not that unachievable, because with a very thin conductive wire, thinner the wire higher the curvature, higher the curvature greater the electric field. So possibly a very thin AWG40 copper wire can create significant fraction of 144GV. Even if one AWG40 wire can't do 1g, one can easily employ 100 or 1,000 etc. such wires and multiply effect till it becomes visible. Obviously it would need to be done under the vacuum bell.

    I wander why nobody did lifters experiments under vacuum? Compressors and bells are not that expensive.
     

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