Crashed UFOs?

Discussion in 'Alien Hub' started by bill.zen, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    Thank you for your deeply considered post here - to be perfectly frank, I've always found your candid and congenial style to be admirable. Perhaps it is time to reconsider my long-held attitude about online debating, which was initially forged in the bawdy crucible of the early chat forums back in the 90s. Back then I saw that I got the best arguments from people when I ticked them off a bit, because then they felt invested in defeating my viewpoint, which makes for a vibrant adversarial debate that often taught me a great deal.

    But now perhaps the substance of a good discussion forum is less like combat in Thunderdome, and more about community and socializing.

    That's perfectly reasonable. I initially accepted the viewpoint of online debating as a Darwinian death match of meme warfare over twenty years ago; I'm long overdue for a re-evaluation of that perspective - today it may well be obsolete and/or counterproductive.

    So to get back on topic - I've heard some fascinating interviews with Ryan Woods on the topic of UFO crashes and retrieval operations. If anyone here has his book Majic Eyes Only, it will probably have the most recent credible crash cases in there.
     
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  2. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Thank you Thomas - I really do appreciate that.

    I can see how the comments I've made about TTSA could be seen as just throwing rotten fruit from the bleachers, and this is definitely one of those topics that it's best to tread carefully on. I will try to put something together in the next few days that can explain what I am thinking as concisely as possible and then figure out what the hell thread to put it in.
     
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  3. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Meh

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    I'm glad we talked about this; it's surprisingly relaxing to just chat about this stuff congenially rather than approaching every debate like a act of war. I should've tried this sooner, haha.

    Regarding TTSA, it's actually been putting me in an odd position to defend them against JG's seemingly endless onslaught of attacks. Because I'm somewhat conflicted about TTSA. On one hand I do think they've done some great work mainstreaming this topic in the corporate news media, partly via the video releases and partly through the impeccable witnesses they've brought forward - that's all good stuff imo. But I'm also deeply disappointed that they've presented nothing at all from their ADAM Project work, and they've been touting Art's Parts with no empirical justification for it, and they've made a rash of rookie errors with stuff like debunked photos and video - if they'd actually bothered to check with any of a dozen top researchers, they could've avoided all of those errors.

    So while I applaud their publicity work, I'm still on the fence about their research work because they've provided nothing on that subject, and in my view that's the crux of the whole issue - do they or do they not have any credible physical evidence?

    Overall, I'm cautiously hopeful because my gut read on their key members; Luis Elizondo, Steve Justice, Hal Puthoff, and Eric Davis, is favorable. But as an ardent empiricist, I have to admit that what they've provided so far in the way of credible physical evidence is woefully short. Only time will tell if that's going to change, or not.

    Well, I tend to think of most points as important, because ultimately a worldview is a lattice of interconnected data points and if any one of them is seriously flawed, then the whole edifice is suspect.

    But I think that when a reasonable point is made, I'm willing to listen and consider it fairly. Only time will tell if that's true, or self-delusion on my part.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
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  4. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Now THAT I like.

    While receiving a Triumph a Roman would sit covered in laurels with his face painted red while a slave behind him periodically whispered in his ear 'remember you are but a man'.

    What I need - and we all do occasionally - is someone whispering just what you said: 'Remember you are completely full of shit sometimes' :) Would make a good tattoo.

    OK. Enough of that. We'll get back to the weird shit presently .......
     
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  5. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I wanted to buy that book, its selling for over 200 dollars, written in 2005, must be a good book...

    ...
     
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  6. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Celestial

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    I read it when it was new, it is a good read.
     
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  7. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Yeah I'm going to buy it online this weekend, I really want to read it and haven't found it for much cheaper than 200...

    ...
     
  8. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  9. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Ordered a copy on Amazon, should have it by the end of next week...

    ...
     
  10. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  11. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Haven't looked into Kecksburg in quite some time but it always sounded like satellite retrieval to me, and maybe not one of ours. Heard a couple of interviews with Stan Gordon on The Paracast and he's very engaging.
     
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  12. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  13. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    The video with the air traffic control traffic sounds interesting - but any highlights in that 43 minute clip to look for? I'm too impatient and coffee wired to sit still that long.

    My thoughts on this are "well, there you go."

    Seems as though 'the military' - in this case the US Air Force - has a unit available at all times on a moment's notice not only for crash retrieval but also for witness sanitizing. And they've managed to keep a lid on it all these decades. These are just the sorts of things that really piss off Lord Kinbote.

    This is the real successor to the Foreign Tech Division at Wright-Patterson
    National Air and Space Intelligence Center Heritage > National Air and Space Intelligence Center > Fact Sheets

    They got themselves some new digs too:
    Some of U.S.’s most secretive work will be done in new NASIC building

    The abduction article mentioned Gordon Cooper. I realize he isn't the focus of this piece only a passing mention but reading it made me go poking around and I found this:

    The Space Review: Loss of faith: Gordon Cooper’s post-NASA stories
     
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  14. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Start listening at the 26 minute mark, some commentary comes up to review the point they're at before things get more eventful...

    ...
     
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  15. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    More on the Matter of “Crashed UFOs” in the U.K.
    By Nick Redfern

    “Are the Remains of Dead Aliens Hidden in the U.K.?” is the title of an article I wrote here at MU just a couple of days ago. To follow up on it, I thought that I would expand on these claims of dead aliens and crashed UFOs in the United Kingdom. Primarily because such cases are so scarce in numbers – and, hardly known. I should stress that most of the cases that I have written about here, today, probably involved classified military hardware that went awry, rather than something of an extraterrestrial nature. That doesn’t make the events any less intriguing, though. The first case dates back to the mid-1960s. Christmas was looming in December 1965 when one Kenneth Reese – in the early hours of the morning – hastily told both the U.K. Ministry of Defense and the Royal Air Force that he saw a bright, globe-like object descend into a valley near Ruthin, North Wales. Notably, the Royal Air Force’s records show that Reese said the light fell at an extremely slow pace, which is particularly intriguing and effectively rules “it” out as having been a meteorite. Reese watched (amazed) the thing for a handful of minutes. Then, suddenly, and quite out of the blue, it exploded in the valley, leaving nothing behind. The mystery remained exactly that: a mystery.

    [​IMG]

    Long-time UFO investigator/author Jenny Randles told an interesting story in issue 152 of her magazine, Northern UFO News. The time? Some point in 1991. The location: the county of Staffordshire. The source was only referred to by Randles as “M.L.”He or she said they encountered something that was silvery, only about ten-feet-long, and not unlike a missile. We might very well suggest that a missile was exactly what it was – perhaps, even, one that had fallen from a military plane. If that was the case, then there’s no doubt that a near-calamity like that would have been hastily hidden. Intriguingly, only a day later a significant depression was found in the immediate area. Like so many cases of the “crashed” type, this one was not cleared up. Not to the public, at least. Moving on to 1994, it was time for the people of the village of Church Lench (near the U.K.’s Cotswolds) to encounter something which fell from the skies. “Barrel”-like was how the locals described the object from the skies. In no time at all, the military had descended on the scene. Not only that, a cordon was put into place, ensuring that no-one without clearance had any chance of figuring out what the hell was going on. The U.K.’s Royal Navy were having their share of the investigation, too. In fact, there was more than that: within the area there were rumors that the Navy had quickly scooped up the unknown thing and headed off for…well…who knows where? Not us!

    [​IMG]

    It should be noted that the 1965 case can be found in the now-declassified UFO files that the U.K.’s Ministry of Defense quietly put together for years – and that are now in the public domain. Before getting too excited, however, it should be noted that for the MoD, the word “UFO” meant literally what it was: something in the sky that had not been identified. It’s very clear from the available material that the Ministry was not thinking of a Roswell-type affair. As I said in my previous article, it’s all but impossible to say there haven’t been any UFO crashes in the U.K. (and by that I mean the crash of spacecraft from other worlds). But, we need to understand that just because the MoD had (and still has) files on UFOs is very different to saying they had the remains of small creatures with large, black eyes from a world faraway. And, finally, there’s the next (and last) installment in this three-part article. It tells of a 1964 case that doesn’t exactly make me go “Wow!” It does, however, make me go “hmmmmm.”


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  16. Standingstones

    Standingstones Celestial

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    The one aspect of the UFO field that has interested me the most has been crash retrieval of flying craft. There has been so little information about this that has surfaced over the years. I guess it is possible that the government can keep secrets when it wants to.
     
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  17. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Twists and Turns and a Strange Saga of an Alleged Crashed UFO
    By Nick Redfern

    Today’s article is the third and final one on the issue of alleged crashed UFOs and dead aliens in the U.K. This one is a very strange and intriguing story, for reasons that will become apparent. It was in 1991 that Leonard Stringield – a UFO investigator-author who spent much of his time investigating cases of what are known as UFO “crash-retrievals – revealed something notable. In July 1991, Stringfield published his biggest, self-published report. Its title: UFO Crash/Retrievals: The Inner Sanctum. When the 142-pages-long book was made available, I bought a copy and sat down to read it. I was amazed to see that Stringfield’s latest publication included an account from 1964 and near Penkridge, England – which is less than twelve miles from where I grew up as a kid. I corresponded with Stringfield and explained that I had lived in the area and knew it well. As a result, on March 29, 1994 Stringfield – who died in December 1994 – very generously let me use the story for my own work. That account, in Stringfield’s words, reads as follows:

    [​IMG]

    “Some time in 1964, ‘somewhere at sea,’ between the Caribbean and the Atlantic, a specially rigged LST, a flagship for a naval amphibious force, received a coded radio message in its ‘crypto-machine’ room, which reported that ‘artifacts’ had been received with three dead personnel. According to my informant, former Third Class Petty Officer, S.M. Brannigan (pseudonym) a specialist trained to translate intercepted Russian transmissions, the decoded report stated that a UFO had crashed in two parts; the main section near Penkridge, in Staffordshire, England, the remains in West Germany. He further stated that the retrievals of the parts and the occupants were conducted by Air Force Intelligence and shipped to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, adding that U.S. and other NATO interceptors were involved. Brannigan admitted that there was more to the incident, involving coded information, that he preferred to keep confidential.”

    Stringfield concluded: “The Brannigan disclosure, while sketchy, may spotlight only the tip of the iceberg as to the scope of military crash-retrieval operations in foreign lands. Researchers know that reports of crashes are worldwide, from pole to pole, on every continent, and in many countries. If such incidents are to be secreted, it is my suspicion that U.S. special retrieval teams have been, and still are, prepared to ‘go into action’ into any crash location within its sphere of military or economic influence such as was exercised with NATO in the ‘artifact’ retrievals in England and West Germany.”

    At the time, there was nothing else to say. That was the beginning and the end of the story. As for Stringfield, he got no more leads. At least, it was the end for a while. In 1995, Irene Bott – who also lived in the area – established the Staffordshire UFO Group. Then, in September 1996, Irene put a conference together to promote her group and to demonstrate the incredible level of UFO activity that was going on in the skies above the Cannock Chase. Me and Irene became good friends and, one day not long after the conference, I told her of the account that Stringfield had published in his report. Irene was very excited by this and contacted the local news paper: would they like a story on the case? It turned out that, yes, the local media were interested. Very interested. I should stress that from 1994 to 1996 I was still working as a forklift-driver and van-driver, and also writing my first book (for Simon & Schuster) A Covert Agenda. As a result, I didn’t have much time to dig into the 1964 affair anymore. But, luckily, Irene did.

    As a result of the newspaper coverage, Irene got some interesting snippets of information from people in the vicinity. And she got a very intriguing – and lengthy – story from a man named Harold South. He lived only a short drive from where both me and Irene lived. South, in his late sixties at the time (we estimated), claimed to have seen the UFO in a field close to Penkridge, which is where “Brannigan” said the unearthly craft came down. South also told Irene that he had been harassed by both the local cops and military personnel and that film was taken out of his camera – after it became clear to the authorities that South had taken a few photos of what he described as a small, triangular object. In December 1996, me and Irene arranged to visit South in person. We did so on the 11th of the month. We called him – from my landline – in the morning and arranged to drive over to his home. When we got there, South was very disturbed and worried. South claimed that in the time between me calling him and me and Irene arriving, he had received a call from the Ministry of Defense – something that had put South into a state of distinct unease. South said that the MoD told him to call another number – as in right away. He did not. Rather, South put the phone down.

    [​IMG]

    I have to say that, at first, me and Irene suspected this was a ruse: South’s way of getting out of being interviewed – after possibly having changed his mind about speaking to us. It turns out that was not the case, though. We asked South if we could use the U.K.’s “1471” system (that permitted someone to find the number of the most recent incoming call). We dialed. Sure enough, and just as South said, there was a Ministry of Defense number. It turned out not to be from the main MoD building in London, but from the Ministry of Defense Guards Service at a local military base, Whittington Barracks. The person who answered the call claimed no knowledge of the MoD’s call to South, even though we pointed out that we had specific evidence of the call. The conversation went no further – apart from in circles. South, by now, was a man on edge: he quickly closed the conversation with us, clearly concerned that he was now in a situation that he had no desire to be in. South stopped the interview and refused to speak to us again. It was just another day in the weird world of UFOs.

    A final word: such was the interest that surfaced when the story originally got out, a blog was created – titled “Penkridge Mystery 1964.” – by a local guy. Although the blog has not been updated for years, it’s still open and contains a large amount of material on this admittedly very odd story. Maybe, now, someone else will dig further.


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  18. Jim_from_the_South

    Jim_from_the_South Honorable

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    It's an interesting story, and I will read it further, but I have a comment or two.
    Why, when they write these reports, do they not bother to get the stuff straight?
    An LST (landing ship - tank) that handled amphibious craft, was not used as
    a flag ship. They were too slow - less than 20 knots top speed.
    An (AGC-7/LCC-7) class ship or its type was used as the lead ship of an amphibious force,
    for the simple reason that its higher speed enabled the commander of that group
    to reach the front or rear of the column as needed, post haste.
    I'll let him keep the "crypto-machine room" even though that was not what it was called,
    simply because he was writing from England I suppose and not familiar with American
    Navy terms. It's CSR, crypto-security room actually. I worked in one for six years.
    If they had Russian translators on board, it would seem strange that they were in the
    Atlantic and not the Pacific, but I will let that go as well.

    None of the report actually rings true. A message to CincLantFleet or the Joint Chiefs to report this, would not have been shared with anyone. Period. When we hear that Brannigan claimed there was more to the transmission that he did not share, we would have been reading that while he sat in Levenworth federal prison. It would take about ten minutes for the NIS to figure out who spilled those beans, and the pseudonym would not help him. Unless he used it to entertain his cell mates. I worked in Top Secret SPECAT (special categories) cleared areas, and, for example, I handled traffic for the NIS and yet I did not mention to a person that I knew, who worked in another area, was about to be arrested for drug sales. I let him go down. For the simple reason that they would know just by the time stamps and the handling logs, who had access. It's all on a need to know, and Brannigan did not need to know.

    Sketchy is a good word used by the author. It's all sketchy to me. Nobody on an LST would ever see that type of traffic unless it involved something in their zone of operation. There are no exceptions to that. If the UFO was due to land in England, and they were the closest friendly, then perhaps they would have been given a heads up. But they would not have been informed about what the Air Force was up to - that's ridiculous on its face.

    I can tell you that I was the sole representative of my duty station in charge of waking up the Admiral,
    who was the ComSubPac, Commander Submarines Pacific, or as we say, the big guy. All submarines in the Pacific theater were under his direct command.
    He had lots of toys with lots of nice nuclear weapons on them, and even he never got the type of message traffic you are speaking of above.
    So did this happen and it was sanitized, in other words the place, timing, characters,
    and nearly everything else changed? Possibly. Although the fact that many different support groups were mentioned in traffic to an LST, even a spy ship, is stretching it quite a bit. I dealt with spy ship traffic all the time. Especially in North Korean waters and off the coast of China.

    According to my informant, former Third Class Petty Officer, S.M. Brannigan (pseudonym) a specialist trained to translate intercepted Russian transmissions, the decoded report stated that a UFO had crashed in two parts; the main section near Penkridge, in Staffordshire, England, the remains in West Germany.

    And here we have another strange part. The Cryptographer would not have shared that transmission with
    anyone not in the message contents as a recipient, and it seems strange that a Russian expert was needed for a UFO incident. \

    Well, I didn't want to bust your bubble, I just wanted to let you know that sometimes the
    reports just don't add up with real life, and that's when we need to question them.


     
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  19. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    The Crashed UFOs That Probably Weren’t at All
    By Nick Redfern

    Just about everyone has heard of the Roswell, New Mexico “crashed UFO” affair of early July 1947. However, what about the fabricated crashed UFO stories designed – in the early years of the Cold War – to try and make the Russians believe the West had its hands on extraterrestrial technology? Maybe, even highly advanced alien weaponry. There’s no doubt at all that many of the 1950s-1960s-era stories of crashed UFOs were nothing but creations of skillful figures in the Pentagon and the CIA. Today, I’ll share with you two such examples. One of the most controversial UFO events occurred (or didn’t) in Hart Canyon, Aztec, New Mexico in March 1948. In many respects, the case can be seen as Roswell’s “little brother.” An alien spacecraft was said to have crashed in the canyon, killing the diminutive creatures inside, who were whisked away by the military. See what I mean about the Roswell parallels? Writer Frank Scully was so enamored by the story he wrote his very own, full-length book on the subject in 1950 titled Behind the Flying Saucers. It became a smash-hit. Working along with Scully was a man named Silas Newton. He was a conman, millionaire, oil entrepreneur, and someone who had crossed paths with both the cops and the FBI on a few occasions, mainly because of his intricate plots to swindle just about anyone he could. Newton knew the UFO subject was taking off, so he thought of ways to earn money from it – which is why he got chummy with Scully.

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    By his own admittance, and a couple of years after the Aztec story surfaced in Frank Scully’s book, Newton was clandestinely visited by two representatives of “a highly secret U.S. Government entity,” as it was worded. Those same agents of the military told Newton, in no uncertain terms, they knew his Aztec story was nonsense. Amazingly, however, they wanted Newton to keep telling the tale to just about anyone and everyone who would listen. This caused CIA guy, Karl Pflock, to ponder on an amazing possibility: “Was this actually nothing to do with real saucers but instead some sort of psychological warfare operation [italics mine]?” There’s no doubt that Pflock was right on target: Newton was used to help spread the word that, yes, UFOs had fallen to Earth and the U.S. military had the technology. But, it was all a big, successful ruse. There were no crashed UFOs and no alien technology – but, the plot worked and had the Russians deeply concerned. Now, let’s take a look at another case – and another hoax.

    [​IMG]

    For years, stories have surfaced to the effect that in 1952 – the same year Silas Newton got that strange visit from the U.S. military – a UFO slammed to the ground on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen. Particularly interesting is a National Security Agency document that tells the story of the fatal crash and the recovery of a craft from another planet. The NSA’s copy of this previously-classified document is very slightly different to copies of the same document that have been declassified by the U.S. Air Force, the Department of State, and the U.S. Army. Someone in the NSA – unfortunately, we don’t know who – identified the Spitsbergen story in the document as being a “plant.” As for who secretly seeded the story, and why, well, that’s another matter entirely. Maybe, U.S. intelligent agents planted the story to try and further have the Russians believe that the U.S. government was back-engineering extraterrestrial spacecraft, when it really wasn’t. On the other hand, the “planters” may have been the Soviets themselves, trying to achieve something almost identical, but aimed squarely at the White House, the CIA, and the Pentagon. Jack Brewer, who runs The UFO Trail blog, says of all this amazing chicanery concerning the Spitsbergen saucer saga of 1952: “It should be a forgone conclusion at this point that the UFO topic was exploited by the global intelligence community for a variety of purposes from one operation and era to the next. The consequences might indeed be significant and far-reaching.”

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  20. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    yup

    This has always been somebody's some flavor of maskirovka but once the ET story gets out IT becomes the story. Something obstructing your vision ? :)
    [​IMG]

    Add to the story the fact that there really is a Foreign Technology Division that really does grab other people's stuff that crashes, that we really did use all sorts of freaky looking balloons like Skyhook and that we do have things that we keep secret and have for a long time. Just look at the story behind the Glomar Explorer - seems if they want something bad enough, especially in an isolated area, they can go about it competently.

    THIS is why I say rock on Father Gill or to the Ariel School kids. I'm gonna make tasteless pancakes for breakfast today.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
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