Crashed UFOs?

August

Metanoia
yup

This has always been somebody's some flavor of maskirovka but once the ET story gets out IT becomes the story. Something obstructing your vision ? :)
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Add to the story the fact that there really is a Foreign Technology Division that really does grab other people's stuff that crashes, that we really did use all sorts of freaky looking balloons like Skyhook and that we do have things that we keep secret and have for a long time. Just look at the story behind the Glomar Explorer - seems if they want something bad enough, especially in an isolated area, they can go about it competently.

THIS is why I say rock on Father Gill or to the Ariel School kids. I'm gonna make tasteless pancakes for breakfast today.

What about the Westall school in Melbourne Australia ? They still rock also.
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JahaRa

Noble
The Crashed UFOs That Probably Weren’t at All
By Nick Redfern

Just about everyone has heard of the Roswell, New Mexico “crashed UFO” affair of early July 1947. However, what about the fabricated crashed UFO stories designed – in the early years of the Cold War – to try and make the Russians believe the West had its hands on extraterrestrial technology? Maybe, even highly advanced alien weaponry. There’s no doubt at all that many of the 1950s-1960s-era stories of crashed UFOs were nothing but creations of skillful figures in the Pentagon and the CIA. Today, I’ll share with you two such examples. One of the most controversial UFO events occurred (or didn’t) in Hart Canyon, Aztec, New Mexico in March 1948. In many respects, the case can be seen as Roswell’s “little brother.” An alien spacecraft was said to have crashed in the canyon, killing the diminutive creatures inside, who were whisked away by the military. See what I mean about the Roswell parallels? Writer Frank Scully was so enamored by the story he wrote his very own, full-length book on the subject in 1950 titled Behind the Flying Saucers. It became a smash-hit. Working along with Scully was a man named Silas Newton. He was a conman, millionaire, oil entrepreneur, and someone who had crossed paths with both the cops and the FBI on a few occasions, mainly because of his intricate plots to swindle just about anyone he could. Newton knew the UFO subject was taking off, so he thought of ways to earn money from it – which is why he got chummy with Scully.

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By his own admittance, and a couple of years after the Aztec story surfaced in Frank Scully’s book, Newton was clandestinely visited by two representatives of “a highly secret U.S. Government entity,” as it was worded. Those same agents of the military told Newton, in no uncertain terms, they knew his Aztec story was nonsense. Amazingly, however, they wanted Newton to keep telling the tale to just about anyone and everyone who would listen. This caused CIA guy, Karl Pflock, to ponder on an amazing possibility: “Was this actually nothing to do with real saucers but instead some sort of psychological warfare operation [italics mine]?” There’s no doubt that Pflock was right on target: Newton was used to help spread the word that, yes, UFOs had fallen to Earth and the U.S. military had the technology. But, it was all a big, successful ruse. There were no crashed UFOs and no alien technology – but, the plot worked and had the Russians deeply concerned. Now, let’s take a look at another case – and another hoax.

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For years, stories have surfaced to the effect that in 1952 – the same year Silas Newton got that strange visit from the U.S. military – a UFO slammed to the ground on the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen. Particularly interesting is a National Security Agency document that tells the story of the fatal crash and the recovery of a craft from another planet. The NSA’s copy of this previously-classified document is very slightly different to copies of the same document that have been declassified by the U.S. Air Force, the Department of State, and the U.S. Army. Someone in the NSA – unfortunately, we don’t know who – identified the Spitsbergen story in the document as being a “plant.” As for who secretly seeded the story, and why, well, that’s another matter entirely. Maybe, U.S. intelligent agents planted the story to try and further have the Russians believe that the U.S. government was back-engineering extraterrestrial spacecraft, when it really wasn’t. On the other hand, the “planters” may have been the Soviets themselves, trying to achieve something almost identical, but aimed squarely at the White House, the CIA, and the Pentagon. Jack Brewer, who runs The UFO Trail blog, says of all this amazing chicanery concerning the Spitsbergen saucer saga of 1952: “It should be a forgone conclusion at this point that the UFO topic was exploited by the global intelligence community for a variety of purposes from one operation and era to the next. The consequences might indeed be significant and far-reaching.”

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My parents grew up in Aztec, NM. I still have relatives there. The first time I heard about the crash in Hart Canyon was when I was working for a group of doctors who had an office in Roswell. In my spare time I went to the museum and found on the wall of hoaxes a newspaper clipping from the 60's or 70's that seemed to be tongue in cheek. It was a local paper from the area and it start out with "Before the crash at Roswell we had our own crash in Hart Canyon...." I asked my dad about it and he told me that reporter used to keep track of all the news and made spoof stories up about the headlines in the national papers. Everyone knew it was a joke, but some crazy guy from Denver (I think) showed up in the late 70's and wanted to interview anyone who knew about the crash. He interviewed a lot of people who mostlly told him there was no story, but the area had a few practical jokers so he went away with some "information" and wrote a book. A lot of the people he mentioned were angry because he claimed they said things they did not say. However, something did happen in Hart Canyon in 1948 and there are 3 boxes of redacted documents about it.

Then in the 90's another author showed (Frank Scully?) up and interviewed people using the first book as his reference. Late 1990's Roswell and Aztec both decided to do a UFO weekend to make some money. The Friends of the Library sponsored a UFO Symposium every year from 1999 to 2008 and they were able to pull in a lot of big names in the UFO research area. Their goal was to earn enough money to build a new library. Roswell had lost a lot of industry and they decided to do their celebration to pull in more tourists. At the time there were already people coming from all over the world, but it had never been a real organized tourist trade until the 90's.

Anyway, a man named Scott Ramsey from the east had married a woman who was from Aztec and I think it was their idea to have the UFO Symposium fund raiser for the library. It was a good idea, brought in a lot of people. Scott organized the information part of it and he used the Freedom of Information act to ask for any documents pertaining to an event in Hart Canyon, New Mexico. It took two years, first he was told nothing was found, then he was told that 3 documents had been found and they would send them. When he finally got the documents it was 3 boxes of them. The military apparently pulled something out of Hart Canyon that crashed there. I was acquainted with a man who grew up on the reservation near there and he had been told as a child that some Navajo he was related to found the crashed vehicle first and they broke a window to pull out the one survivor, took it home and took care of it until it died. The oil men who were checking wells in that area came next and they called the sheriff, then the rancher and after that the military showed up. It is a very similar story to Roswell. I have no idea what is really true, but suspect it was a military craft that crashed there. 1/3 rd of New Mexico is military reservation of some sort or another, testing grounds, bases and secret facilities (but Not in Dulce, that is made up, probably to better hide the actual underground base somewhere else).

I did see the documents and they were copies of old documents with March 1948 dates. As you turned pages they became less and less redacted and sometimes names were mentioned on the later pages. But I did not see enough information to know what exactly was being reported.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
I don't think anyone would be too concerned about Roswell had it not been for Charles Berlitz and Bill Moore. Same for The Philadelphia Experiment and the Bermuda Triangle. Gettysburg was a Civil War battlefield and now it's a mecca for ghost hunting. Here in the Hudson Valley you start talking about the Big Wave and Indian Point and you're gonna get some funny looks.

Big pop culture stew.

Wouldn't doubt in some cases there is some seed, some genesis to the story but who can tell all these decades later.
 

dr wu

Noble
Just a side note but in Revelations by Dr Vallee....he cites at least 17 tales of crashed alien saucers. I think he looked into all of them to some degree and said he couldn't find anything meaningful and I assume that included the infamous Roswell case.
BTW...he also talked a bit about 'alien artifacts' that people claim to have obtained and spent some time investitgating those and never found anything that impressed him, however I have heard recently that he has a new book soon to be released (it's currently only available as an e-book) and he releates some new information pertaining to 'debris'.
 

JahaRa

Noble
heh....where's that review?

;)
Still reading. I don't get much time to read. So far it is interesting. I liked the beginning because he actually went through the history of the area before the incident. I did notice a couple of seeming typos under the photos at the beginning of the book. There is a town called San Antonito just north west of Albuquerque, but this book is about what happened in San Antonio, NM, which is just north of Truth or Consequences, NM.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Is someone here reading the book?
Kevin Randle has reviewed it and was unimpressed.
A Different Perspective: Trinity: The Best Kept Secret - A Critique

He makes some good points...

A Different Perspective: Trinity: The Best Kept Secret - A Critique

(Excerpt)

It is also disturbing that Vallee and Harris take the Maury Island hoax as something authentic. That story, actually investigated in depth by the Air Force, as well as many others, is also a hoax. Although Vallee/Harris acknowledge the hoax explanation, they also wonder how “…any such statement can be drawn by the reported facts.”

...
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
He makes some good points...

A Different Perspective: Trinity: The Best Kept Secret - A Critique

(Excerpt)

It is also disturbing that Vallee and Harris take the Maury Island hoax as something authentic. That story, actually investigated in depth by the Air Force, as well as many others, is also a hoax. Although Vallee/Harris acknowledge the hoax explanation, they also wonder how “…any such statement can be drawn by the reported facts.”

...

I sort of drifted off when he went on to other cases but there was something that Randle mentioned that caught my attention. He was talking about the tarp covered craft. Specifically, the blue tarp. Common enough but not in 1945.
Dunno if he put that bit it in or the authors did.
 

Rick Hunter

Celestial
Either way I might feel about it, there's just not much to go on for this story. I agree with Randle that the Army personnel were described as having a very careless approach to their recovery, just dumping some material into a ditch and leaving the craft loaded on a vehicle unguarded so they could go into town for lunch. I figured they would have taken this alot more seriously, assuming it was a crashed experimental aircraft or something of Soviet origin.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
The argument I heard was that this was 1945 and demobilization was on everyone's mind and the soldiers present didn't give a crap about what they were doing. That actually sounds human enough to be believable in about any setting except this one. Crashed plane or balloon, sure. Crashed extraterrestrial spacecraft uh, no.
 

dr wu

Noble
Finally read Randle's review/critique....apparently not much of a story and no way to verify it .
I have to wonder what Dr Vallee was thinking when he agreed to do this and put his name on it. :unsure8:
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Anybody actually read the book? I’m curious if they said ‘blue tarp’ in it. Small detail but relevant.
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
What's the significance of the blue tarp...? Did the military not have blue then?

Possibly but the tarps we take for granted weren’t in use then. Randle made a point of sonething extraordinary covered by the mundane. I think I’m stuck on his description. But if the authors made a point of it I’d be wondering if it’s one of those damning details
 
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