Duke University Removes Confederate Statue

Toroid

Founding Member
Will George Washington & Thomas Jefferson be targeted because they were both slave owners?
Should Washington and Jefferson monuments come down? - BBC News
"So this week it's Robert E Lee," he said on Tuesday of the rebel general's monument that was a flashpoint for last Saturday's violent rally in Virginia.

"I wonder, is it George Washington next week?" he asked journalists at Trump Tower. "And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after?"

Let's put aside for a moment the irony that Lee may well have supported Charlottesville's plans to remove his bronze likeness, given that he urged the country to "obliterate the marks of civil strife" and refrain from erecting such monuments.

As President Trump pointed out, George Washington was a slaveholder.

So might the stone obelisk dedicated to the father of the nation, looming over the heart of his eponymous capital city, be the next battleground in the US culture wars?

Or even Mount Rushmore?
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nivek

As Above So Below
Taking down these various statues will do nothing to stem racism, this 'book burning' mentality will only cause more civil strive than not...
 

Castle-Yankee54

Celestial
As far as I'm concerned I think the bravery and sacrifice of the civil war soldiers from both sides should be honored.

Its the lost cause monuments that are worshipped and venerated that honor the white supremacist government that I have a problem with.

The confederate government was based on the premise that due to the supremacy of whites over black that slavery was a natural and normal condition with God on their side.

http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~ras2777/amgov/stephens.html
 

nivek

As Above So Below
No statue should be worshipped but many do, Buddha statues, Jesus statues, along with many non-religious type statues...
 

Gambeir

Celestial
But of course it's perfectly acceptable to have a capital warship in George Bush's name, or Ronald Reagan, and if you think that's OK, wait till the next one is named for a Clinton. It's as if we have no war heros to name ships after huh?

This is a Soror's project which makes it a New World Order operation.

Evil can only succeed with centralized power. This is about civil rights alright, but it's about the further destruction of civil rights, and sadly laughably too, the people dismantling these icons are aiding in the destruction of the few civil rights left that the corrupt judicial system hasn't already handed over to the organized crime rings of corporatism.

Mostly it's instilling in the minds of idiots that a centralized gov-corp is the protector of their rights, because naturally enough the story line goes that the Union was against slavery while the evil southerners were all slavers. Good Lord...well that's how these people are thinking.

Take note here what's happening. While these people say these are icons about slavery, where are they when it comes to today's slavers? How much do you want to bet that in their place will come a statue of the likes of Michael Bloomberg, or some other wonderful creature?

Today in America the wealthy now control 70% of the economy. Globally less than 300 people own half the global wealth. Oh but this isn't enough. Oh no, they have the right to fire you for what you say on your own time or in private if they can prove what you said.

Yet again a statue of Jeff Davis or Robert E. Lee is what's important huh?

The crimes of the rich are the issues of today, and slavery is not gone, but to tear down a monument to Jeff Davis is to fail to grasp that part of American History which not only should be remembered, but should be put forward in to our time as a remaining issue where slavery has morphed over to the organized crime rings run by corporate elites and whom are conducting economic terrorism against their own citizens, while at the same time our own central governments have spiraled out of control enacting taxations without any representation and voiding public mandates while blessing corporate law firms the right to rewrite the foundations of the republic while they fill their own pocket and bed their own beds with prostitutes.

For these reasons I find this not only an outrage and insult to our own history but a foolish and stupidly propelled group whom are probably also paid agents that are behind this bullshit. On top of all this, this will only add to racial divide, which is naturally just another bit of icing on the cake of today's slave masters.
 
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Castle-Yankee54

Celestial
But of course it's perfectly acceptable to have a capital warship in George Bush's name, or Ronald Reagan, and if you think that's OK, wait till the next one is named for a Clinton. It's as if we have no war heros to name ships after huh?

Yet again a statue of Jeff Davis or Robert E. Lee is what's important huh?

The crimes of the rich are the issues of today, and slavery is not gone, but to tear down a monument to Jeff Davis is to fail to grasp that part of American History which not only should be remembered, but should be put forward in to our time as a remaining issue where slavery has morphed over to the organized crime rings run by corporate elites and whom are conducting economic terrorism against their own citizens, while at the same time our own central governments have spiraled out of control enacting taxations without any representation and voiding public mandates while blessing corporate law firms the right to rewrite the foundations of the republic while they fill their own pocket and bed their own beds with prostitutes.

Actually plenty of USN ships have been named after military heroes and famous battles.

Taking down a statue of Davis or Lee isn't going to stop racism or hate......its just removing a symbol of a white supremacist government. Don't worry though the Cornerstone speech and what the confederacy stood for is all written down and can't be forgotten.
 

Dundee

Fading day by day.
As you all know, I am an Aussie, not a US citizen. But from the opposite side of the planet, it seems to me that if I were a southerner in the US, I would be mighty pissed off with this. I have seen snippets of the banning and removal of the confederate flag, removal of monuments and statues. To me, that is incredibly disrespectful of peoples history and ancestors. Folks on both sides died for what they believed in, right or wrong. History is History. The confederate flag for example I suspect for most folks is a proud part of their history. A symbol of there ancestors and there state. It doesn't mean they endorse racism or bigotry or slavery. Don't tear down a monument to the south because of what happened, put one next to it of Martin Luther King, and place them near a library so kids can learn from it all.

I am an Aussie and we have a similar flag here, its meaning is becoming distorted, I believe not by common opinion,, but by a minority of idiots, both racist and academic. And now we are experiencing the same thing.
I live in the town where this happened, I drive regularly past the site, and I am mighty pissed that a minority is distorting historical significance because of political INCORRECTNESS)

The Flag
upload_2017-8-21_0-47-31.png

The original...(whats left of it)

upload_2017-8-21_0-48-1.png

The story... ( yeah the secrets out, so you know now within....20km where i live :) )

Eureka Rebellion - Wikipedia
 

Toroid

Founding Member
This could be part of a larger agenda to erase aspects of history. I read that ISIS was destroying structures to erase evidence of alien influence in the past.
 

Dundee

Fading day by day.
This could be part of a larger agenda to erase aspects of history. I read that ISIS was destroying structures to erase evidence of alien influence in the past.
But it it just seems so wrong, no -one in their right mind can validate or endorse what happened with slavery. But it was the culture of some, and the politics of the time. Not the flag, not (all) the people.And as wrong as it was, it was what people were taught. It was what was endorsed by the elders and the authorities of the time. You and I know it was messed up, but we were not there. They say history is written by the victor. That sucks. If you erase records of the mistakes you make, you risk making them again.

Haven't read about the ISIS alien link, I thought it was just there version of religious intolerance.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
What about the slavery going on in the world right this moment?...Seems everyone is focused on slavery of the past and ignoring the people who are in chains now...
 

Dundee

Fading day by day.
What about the slavery going on in the world right this moment?...Seems everyone is focused on slavery of the past and ignoring the people who are in chains now...
Your right, we are all very complacent. Ignorance is bliss. How many times do we watch the evening news and comment, Jesus that's bloody awful, then 5 mins later are drinking coffee watching a movie.
But what is the answer. I am a single bloke now so I guess I have no excuse other than complacency, indifference, laziness to not become an activist. But what about all the rest of the 9 to 5 ers with a wife and 3 kids.
What practical steps cane they take. hey have a family to keep.I have no excuse I guess, but how do we stop it. Drop more bombs?
 

Castle-Yankee54

Celestial
As you all know, I am an Aussie, not a US citizen. But from the opposite side of the planet, it seems to me that if I were a southerner in the US, I would be mighty pissed off with this. I have seen snippets of the banning and removal of the confederate flag, removal of monuments and statues. To me, that is incredibly disrespectful of peoples history and ancestors. Folks on both sides died for what they believed in, right or wrong. History is History. The confederate flag for example I suspect for most folks is a proud part of their history. A symbol of there ancestors and there state. It doesn't mean they endorse racism or bigotry or slavery. Don't tear down a monument to the south because of what happened, put one next to it of Martin Luther King, and place them near a library so kids can learn from it all.

I understand what you mean. When it comes to the famous confederate battle flag the men who carried it and followed it their bravery and sacrifice should be honored. However, due to modern white supremacists.....(the confederate government was based on white supremacy).....have made it a symbol of hate. So many now see it as a symbol of hate whether it started out as such in the first place.

I live in the northern US and I'm seen as a Yankee. At the time all this started I was sympathetic. But after one gets called a "race traitor" enough I was thinking that maybe those who say the monuments are a symbol of hate might be correct. I also learned that it was the confederate government that made the war all about slavery even before they fired on Fort Sumter. One other thing is that the confederate government made slavery their cornerstone and that due to their supremacy over blacks.....(a God given right)....that slavery was a natural and normal condition. The speech which I posted above was given on March 21, 1861. This was the "states rights" they were fighting for.

Robert E. Lee followed his state when it seceded on April 20, 1861 which had allied itself with a government based on slavery. If he had a problem with slavery its not likely he would have joined the confederacy which was all about slavery.

Besides though I think taking down the monuments is over reacting in some cases.... it is not erasing or rewriting history in anyway. Its all still there.....people just have to look harder as its found at battlefields, books and in museums.
 

Dundee

Fading day by day.
But you have to remember you are an incredibly well educated person, with a great knowledge of history. Do you think most folks think that deep. What is the majority here, folks like you, or just simple folks respecting what they believe is their flag
 
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