Genuine Contactee?

1963

Noble
Hi guys, I saw an old George Adamski documentary on T.V the other night,
and though I have always determined that 'contactees' were a load of
con-artists that were either out to make themselves famous and of course
a quick buck, or that they were the type of person that needed something
to spice their lives up a little, inasmuch as that they were'nt essentially
charlatanistic per se', rather that they were mereley board of their own
basically drab existence and sought to change that perseption [by other people]
of themselves, or in the odd case, simply just not wired up properley!... I tend
to leave such programmes on to see if there is anything that I have missed in my
previous meetings and smug-dismissal of the possible-validity concept of such
paranormal claims. But nope, alas I still cannot separate the name 'George Adamski'
and 'snake-oil-peddlar', the same with 'Helene Smith', 'Elizabeth Klarer' and
' Madame Blavatsky' et al'
But through all of this negativity , somewhere in the back of my [tiny little] mind
there is this nagging question in my mind concerning a man that predated the others
by centuries. Emanuel Swedenborg .

Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia

From the man's biographical history the guy could clearly not be described as being
nothing less than above average intelligence, perhaps even a genius of his time. And yet
the claims that he made in regards to this thread, I find very hard to accept!
but there's still that niggling question, and the question is...is it really just coincidence
that Emanuel Swedenborg's 'flying machine picture' reminds me so much of the
Lonnie Zamora drawing of the Socorro UFO [Alien Craft] a full 250 years beforehand?

UFO%20Socorro%20NM%201964%20Zamora.jpg

Swdbg2.jpg


... and also I cannot get out of my head just how well before his time his description of
the inhabitants of the other planets that he were in contact with, were on a different
plane dimensionally and so we would never be able to find their presence anyway.
" the 'beings' exist in a plane beyond our sight differing than our own realm "
A claim not unusual nowadays. eg . A great writer with a massive depth of knowledge and experience … friend and occasional reference checker of mine [via e-mail] the late Brad Steiger once wrote that “we are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon.”
Interdimensional beings, Aliens From "Dimensions" That Coexist Alongside Our Own? | Ancient Code

... intriguing possible explanation of why we can find no trace of ET on the planets
that we have studied close enough to find it! ... but as someone else noted
that Swedenborg's planetary tour stops at Saturn, the furthest planet known
during Swedenborg's era—he did not visit Uranus, Neptune or Pluto.
... So, big red flag there then! Yet still, I can't help wondering just how
a man's train of thought could be so far ahead of his time ,.. whether
pure fiction or indeed if there's something that i've missed and he was actually a
genuine contactee.

The Life on Other Planets Question
Swedenborg 1714 Flying Machine - Wikipedia

… well we are all on this forum a little like-minded in our shared interest in paranormal genres but tend to hold different opinions to various degrees and that said, as i'm always willing to consider that I know nothing lol, I would appreciate your thoughts on contactees, especially Emanuel Swedenborg. … if nothing else, he was imho a fascinating enigmatic character from three centuries ago.

Cheers.
 
I'll have to become acquainted with the case of Emanuel Swedenborg before I can comment on it, but I can say that I've had a similar fascination with the case of Daniel Fry - in fact I've studied this case for decades and contributed a couple of chapters to the biography about him that was written by Sean Donovan a few years ago.

One of the things that makes the case of Daniel Fry so exceptional is that he predicted dark energy forty years before it was discovered. As far as I know that's the only time an alleged contactee has made a successful scientific prediction. And if that was the only compelling anomaly in his books (two of which were entirely scientific treatises with no mention of his contact experience...but which upon careful consideration seem to be intimately related to his contact experience), I probably would've written it off as a wild fluke. But he also predicted gravitational field propulsion, which didn't appear in the academic literature until about 30 years after his books were published. And he also described EIT (electromagnetically induced transparency) which has only recently been discovered. Another interesting point is that in his case, he didn't actually meet an alien being - according to his account of the incident they only communicated remotely via some technological apparatus which may or may not have been associated with the featureless oblate spheroid that he encountered one night in the desert of White Sands Missile Proving Ground, where he was employed at that time working on experimental rocket engines for the early space program. I don't know if the existence of Project Twinkle - which was studying anomalous sightings around White Sands at that time, was known to anyone, but it seems to lend credence to his story. Daniel Fry was also a keen scientific and technological mind, and it's a joy to hear the detail and intelligence of his retelling of his claimed experience in the surviving radio interview recordings, and the talks that he gave about his experience. So for many reasons I find that this one haunts me. I wrote about it in some detail in this thread:

Daniel Fry - Contactee?
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
And he also described EIT (electromagnetically induced transparency) which has only recently been discovered.

WOW! Thank you so much. I looked for that reference everywhere for years, without knowing it's name. Metals that turn transparent are one such technology and were mentioned in several other cases.

Transparent metals actually occur during nuclear explosions. Out of all the places, I found a testimony of US Air Force pilot who was tasked, together with his commanding officer, to observe a nuclear test from a distance of 10 miles. He described how body of the aeroplane they were flying became transparent during the nuke's explosion and that he was able to see the desert floor through the floor of his cockpit. That was from a book "The Spirit of Attack: Fighter Pilot Stories " by Bruce Gordon.

The only other person who mentioned metals turning transparent was John Hutchison. And that is why I started taking him and his experiments very seriously.

There are so many technologies that witnesses observe in UFO encounters and each one of these ads to the veracity of UFO narrative.

I watched a video where a scientist working under DARPA's grant was holding in his hand a thin piece of glass covered with a thin organic emulsion. Emulsion was able to amplify light and give user ability to see in the dark. One can easily imagine that emulsion being applied on a flexible membrane and than simply being used in the way contact lens would be. Now, I am saying this in a direct reference to Roswell autopsy, where such contact lenses were removed from alien's eye sockets. Both the scientific predictions, like Daniel Fry's and technological predictions like transparent metals or night vision contact lenses are evidence that UFO phenomenon is real.

One another such technology, that UFO contactees and abductees constantly mention is telepathy or at least a form of it. Telepathy is actually possible and it was scientifically described in late forties, immediately after WWII. Many soldiers that were operating radars reported hearing crackling noise in their heads when radar was on and scientific community took it from there. Basically, one can vibrate organic tissue around the inner ear with either electromagnetic or acoustic waves. That vibration than gives inner ear the same experience as if it's hearing ordinary sound. There are several documentaries on YouTube about it and apparently there was a toy based on that principle. As well there is a so called "bone speaker" that is used by military pilots, where speaker is attached to a bone on a head and vibrations are transferred through bone to inner ear. Most likely aliens use a technology along these lines, not something that would be neuron to neuron communication in two different persons.
 
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1963

Noble
I'll have to become acquainted with the case of Emanuel Swedenborg before I can comment on it, but I can say that I've had a similar fascination with the case of Daniel Fry - in fact I've studied this case for decades and contributed a couple of chapters to the biography about him that was written by Sean Donovan a few years ago.

One of the things that makes the case of Daniel Fry so exceptional is that he predicted dark energy forty years before it was discovered. As far as I know that's the only time an alleged contactee has made a successful scientific prediction. And if that was the only compelling anomaly in his books (two of which were entirely scientific treatises with no mention of his contact experience...but which upon careful consideration seem to be intimately related to his contact experience), I probably would've written it off as a wild fluke. But he also predicted gravitational field propulsion, which didn't appear in the academic literature until about 30 years after his books were published. And he also described EIT (electromagnetically induced transparency) which has only recently been discovered. Another interesting point is that in his case, he didn't actually meet an alien being - according to his account of the incident they only communicated remotely via some technological apparatus which may or may not have been associated with the featureless oblate spheroid that he encountered one night in the desert of White Sands Missile Proving Ground, where he was employed at that time working on experimental rocket engines for the early space program. I don't know if the existence of Project Twinkle - which was studying anomalous sightings around White Sands at that time, was known to anyone, but it seems to lend credence to his story. Daniel Fry was also a keen scientific and technological mind, and it's a joy to hear the detail and intelligence of his retelling of his claimed experience in the surviving radio interview recordings, and the talks that he gave about his experience. So for many reasons I find that this one haunts me. I wrote about it in some detail in this thread:

Daniel Fry - Contactee?
Hi Thomas, hope you are well my friend, and thanks for the response.
About Daniel Fry... thanks for the links and info on this man, whom I cannot say that i've ever taken any interest in... in my time I have more than likely read about him some time ago, but by my lack of remembering his story/case then probably dismissed him along with many other 'contactees' after a cursory read on the subject. And so as you invited a closer look to see if i'd been careless about the guy, I looked a little closer today, by means of your links and search engine. which only turned up the stuff that you'd already highlighted, and the truth is that ever since I was a boy when first became interested in pursuing knowledge on the UFO/ETH, I read all that I could find on the subject, some interesting and compelling , and some just plain silly,.. and even at that tender age and relatively weak discernment muscled (so to speak) I came across what in my view was a few very compulsive cases which I would describe as 'probables' , and also in my opinion there were 'possibles', because I am of a natural disposition of not being willing to declare certainties unless being the actual experiencer of any claimed occurrence. [not to say that I have any real doubt about many cases] Father Gill case for instance .. but still cannot bring myself to declare that it was an interaction with extra-terrestrial-entities 100% guaranteed ! .. Nor can I categorically dismiss the, what I might say are the more unlikely claims made by certain unreliable sources. Corso for instance. And I like to believe that I approach every new case or claim with an open mind , that said... I am always mindful of that old Bertrand Russel nugget of "keep your mind open—but not so open that your brains fall out.” ..[or something like that] and with that in mind, I like to assess the feasibility of both the claim and the claimant. And in this case , Firstly Mr. Fry's account of missing the bus for a planned party [or whatever it was] and for no particular reason but presumably out of boredom deciding to explore a path in the desert that he'd not been down before... and just chancing upon a genuine life changing sight, .. an actual Flying Saucer!! … is so far 'possible' to my mind. And then his account gets a 'little stretchier' when he starts to receive a telepathic voice in his head .. but he's still got me interested . And then he goes and stretches my belief in him considerably by claiming an Elizabeth Klarer type scenario 'a little 4000 mile round trip to sight see New York from 20 miles altitude and back to within a couple of feet from his starting point'.
So considerably in fact that my estimation of the guy's integrity by this point is pretty low. And to cut a long story short by the time that he's finished his 'pilgrimage to the forest' to once again receive 'wisdom from Alan' , i'm of the opinion that this guy is not very believable at all. And then as you yourself admit .. he is found to be a UFO film faker.. then that's enough for me to label the guy as being just as phoney as many, many others before and after him undoubtedly are. The facts like this, as well as the unlikelihood of the whole scenario …. ET sends a unmanned taxi for him to have a jaunt in to get him on side, .. they speak directly to his brain in 'English that took them two years to learn' just so they could admonish our childish behaviour and urge us to grow up [which will not happen by the way] … give him insights into knowledge to help mankind that he doesn't understand etc... I do not wish to go on and list all of the red flags that sprung up in my mind when looking into the man's story, so in a nutshell Thomas, no I do not believe in this guy at all!
And I know that you are a pretty intelligent guy and will have been just as critical with the guy's claims as I am,... and know that your real interest in his story is the fact that he seemed to have deep insights into a couple of future scientific theories … which I will freely admit generally goes over my head. Scientific development is to say the least, not my forte.
And after reading all of your Paracast thread, and following many leads therefrom , I have to admit that the guy seems to have been a very clever chap indeed! And whether any or all of his 'predictions' are in fact valid and lead on to something amazingly brilliant [ie intergalactic travel] or not, isn't really the point of your interest in Daniel Fry is it.... from what I can gather your real burning question is did the man have genuine foresight … either from his own unacknowledged genius or from the unprovable 'Alan'?
My guess would be that he was an intelligent man that was a very insatiable scientific cutting edge data gatherer , and that he was astute enough to piece all of these bits of knowledge together into something more coherent than they were before his input, and then pass it off as 'a gift from ET' . But then who am I to say what the real truth of the matter is. All I can conclusively say is that I just do not personally believe that the man had any contact and cordial illumination from a extra-terrestrial entity.

Cheers Buddy.
 

Sheltie

Fratty and out of touch.
I read the Wiki link you provided, 1963, regarding Emanuel Swedenborg. If nothing else, it's a very interesting read and yes it also makes me think of George Adamski and his visitors from Venus.

I was especially surprised by the fact that he received interest from John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church in the US. Growing up Methodist, I'm very aware of how dry and salty Methodist ideology can often be. Nevertheless, Wesley himself had a bit of a reputation as a wild man, especially with the ladies!

The Interdimensional Hypothesis is a subject that intrigues me. It is discussed often on internet forums but it usually evolves into a prosaic physics debate.

Swedenborg is one of those sights that is difficult to ignore, like a trainwreck or Ancient Aliens.
 

The shadow

The shadow knows!
what of Ezekiel from the Bible?
A religious vision or a meeting with extraterrestrial people?
ezekiel_spaceship_6.gif 1_d9DNiF6zwno_BUSYAefPOQ.jpeg
 
Hi Thomas, hope you are well my friend, and thanks for the response.
About Daniel Fry... thanks for the links and info on this man, whom I cannot say that i've ever taken any interest in... in my time I have more than likely read about him some time ago, but by my lack of remembering his story/case then probably dismissed him along with many other 'contactees' after a cursory read on the subject. And so as you invited a closer look to see if i'd been careless about the guy, I looked a little closer today, by means of your links and search engine. which only turned up the stuff that you'd already highlighted, and the truth is that ever since I was a boy when first became interested in pursuing knowledge on the UFO/ETH, I read all that I could find on the subject, some interesting and compelling , and some just plain silly,.. and even at that tender age and relatively weak discernment muscled (so to speak) I came across what in my view was a few very compulsive cases which I would describe as 'probables' , and also in my opinion there were 'possibles', because I am of a natural disposition of not being willing to declare certainties unless being the actual experiencer of any claimed occurrence. [not to say that I have any real doubt about many cases] Father Gill case for instance .. but still cannot bring myself to declare that it was an interaction with extra-terrestrial-entities 100% guaranteed ! .. Nor can I categorically dismiss the, what I might say are the more unlikely claims made by certain unreliable sources. Corso for instance. And I like to believe that I approach every new case or claim with an open mind , that said... I am always mindful of that old Bertrand Russel nugget of "keep your mind open—but not so open that your brains fall out.” ..[or something like that] and with that in mind, I like to assess the feasibility of both the claim and the claimant. And in this case , Firstly Mr. Fry's account of missing the bus for a planned party [or whatever it was] and for no particular reason but presumably out of boredom deciding to explore a path in the desert that he'd not been down before... and just chancing upon a genuine life changing sight, .. an actual Flying Saucer!! … is so far 'possible' to my mind. And then his account gets a 'little stretchier' when he starts to receive a telepathic voice in his head .. but he's still got me interested . And then he goes and stretches my belief in him considerably by claiming an Elizabeth Klarer type scenario 'a little 4000 mile round trip to sight see New York from 20 miles altitude and back to within a couple of feet from his starting point'.
So considerably in fact that my estimation of the guy's integrity by this point is pretty low. And to cut a long story short by the time that he's finished his 'pilgrimage to the forest' to once again receive 'wisdom from Alan' , i'm of the opinion that this guy is not very believable at all. And then as you yourself admit .. he is found to be a UFO film faker.. then that's enough for me to label the guy as being just as phoney as many, many others before and after him undoubtedly are. The facts like this, as well as the unlikelihood of the whole scenario …. ET sends a unmanned taxi for him to have a jaunt in to get him on side, .. they speak directly to his brain in 'English that took them two years to learn' just so they could admonish our childish behaviour and urge us to grow up [which will not happen by the way] … give him insights into knowledge to help mankind that he doesn't understand etc... I do not wish to go on and list all of the red flags that sprung up in my mind when looking into the man's story, so in a nutshell Thomas, no I do not believe in this guy at all!
And I know that you are a pretty intelligent guy and will have been just as critical with the guy's claims as I am,... and know that your real interest in his story is the fact that he seemed to have deep insights into a couple of future scientific theories … which I will freely admit generally goes over my head. Scientific development is to say the least, not my forte.
And after reading all of your Paracast thread, and following many leads therefrom , I have to admit that the guy seems to have been a very clever chap indeed! And whether any or all of his 'predictions' are in fact valid and lead on to something amazingly brilliant [ie intergalactic travel] or not, isn't really the point of your interest in Daniel Fry is it.... from what I can gather your real burning question is did the man have genuine foresight … either from his own unacknowledged genius or from the unprovable 'Alan'?
My guess would be that he was an intelligent man that was a very insatiable scientific cutting edge data gatherer , and that he was astute enough to piece all of these bits of knowledge together into something more coherent than they were before his input, and then pass it off as 'a gift from ET' . But then who am I to say what the real truth of the matter is. All I can conclusively say is that I just do not personally believe that the man had any contact and cordial illumination from a extra-terrestrial entity.

Cheers Buddy.
Thanks for taking the time to look into the case, ole chap.

Here’s the thing, as I see it. Cleverness alone cannot explain Daniel Fry’s description of the antigravitational acceleration acting between the galaxy clusters which modern astronomy has dubbed “dark energy” – we simply did not have the precision scientific data, nor a theoretical foundation, to consider the existence of the dark energy effect back in 1956 when Fry published this statement:

"We can explain the observed actions of the present universe by postulating that an attraction exists between the individual bodies within a galaxy, because their total mass and distance is such that they are within the positive portion of the gravitation curve with respect to each other. In the vast spaces between the galaxies however, the curve dips below the zero line, with the result that a repulsion exists between the galaxies themselves. This also explains why matter, although rather evenly distributed throughout the known universe, is not distributed uniformly, but is found in quite similar concentrations at comparatively regular distances." [emphasis mine]
Steps to the Stars, Daniel Fry, 1956

That’s a bonafide, readily verifiable scientific prediction; we now know for a scientific fact that a gravitational repulsion does exist between sufficiently separated galaxies and galaxy clusters. But this is not only a legitimate scientific prediction; it’s a prediction regarding the physical reality of the negative pole of gravitation (aka, “antigravity”) that’s the key to the concept of gravitational field propulsion as described by Alcubierre in 1994 - nearly forty years after the publication of Fry’s book. As such, this startling and seemingly prescient prediction demands an explanation, and yet the possible explanations all appear to be improbable. It’s a short list:

1.) Daniel Fry was provided with revolutionary scientific insights during his time at White Sands via scientists secretly working on advanced physics and astrophysics, and he crafted his tale of alien contact as a cover story to get that info out to the public without compromising his sources. This explanation seems to be highly improbable because even the most advanced technology of the 1950s could not resolve the distance and rate of acceleration of distant galaxy clusters, because the precision study of Type Ia supernovae velocities in relation to their distances – made possible only by a global collaboration of modern observatories working in tandem - wasn’t performed until 1998 when two very large and capable teams of scientists simultaneously discovered the dark energy effect. So, for this explanation to hold, in 1956 the US military’s astronomical science and technology would’ve had to have been at least a half century ahead of global academic astronomy and observational technology.

2.) Fry was some kind of theoretical physics savant who could infer radical new advancements in scientific understanding from sparse data. In this regard he would have to possess an innate talent for new insights surpassing that of the world’s Nobel laureate astrophysicists. However we see no other indication of this level of scientific genius in his life so this explanation seems to be very improbable.

3.) Daniel Fry really did experience contact with an alien intelligence that gave him scientific information.

I don’t know of any other explanations that could fit the bill, which is frustrating, because all of those three possibilities are fraught with unlikelihoods.

And then there are other anomalies in his scientific treatises, like this one:

“We know, of course, that if a length of insulated wire were wound around the soft iron bar, and a flow of electrons were induced in the winding, the two bars could be made to exhibit a repulsion as readily as an attraction. Note that in this case we have not destroyed the field of permanent magnet, we have not shielded the field, nor have we overcome it. We have simply produced a field which is in opposition to it, and the two objects now tend to separate rather than to come together.

The same possibility exists with respect to gravitational fields. While the results will probably not be achieved in the same way, it should not be too difficult to work out means of polarizing a gravitational field, once we discard the old assumption that it is impossible.” [emphasis mine]
Atoms, Galaxies and Understanding, Daniel Fry, 1960

Three years later Robert L. Forward proved this exact concept for the first time in the scientific literature within his landmark paper “Guidelines to Antigravity,” where he described a viable “gravitational dipole generator” which is designed like a toroidal electromagnetic inductor, except it uses a changing mass-current instead of a changing electrical current to polarize a gravitational field (in fact a changing current through a toroidal electromagnetic inductor does produce a vanishingly weak pair of gravitational and antigravitational poles, but our instruments simply aren’t sensitive enough to detect them).

So, once again, with this 1963 paper by Robert L. Forward we have identified the bleeding edge of academic physics advancement in a seemingly unrelated area, and we find that Daniel Fry was, at least in concept, a step of ahead of the global scientific community. Two major scientific breakthroughs anticipated by a minor rocketry technician with an alien contact story? Even Albert Einstein failed to predict the dark energy effect and the gravitoelectric dipole generator – are we to believe that Daniel Fry was a greater genius than Einstein?

At what point does an extremely improbable alien contact story become more probable than the alternative explanations which also strain credulity?

Idk. But I do know a genuine mystery demanding an extraordinary explanation when I see one. And this is one.
 

1963

Noble
Thanks for taking the time to look into the case, ole chap.

Here’s the thing, as I see it. Cleverness alone cannot explain Daniel Fry’s description of the antigravitational acceleration acting between the galaxy clusters which modern astronomy has dubbed “dark energy” – we simply did not have the precision scientific data, nor a theoretical foundation, to consider the existence of the dark energy effect back in 1956 when Fry published this statement:

"We can explain the observed actions of the present universe by postulating that an attraction exists between the individual bodies within a galaxy, because their total mass and distance is such that they are within the positive portion of the gravitation curve with respect to each other. In the vast spaces between the galaxies however, the curve dips below the zero line, with the result that a repulsion exists between the galaxies themselves. This also explains why matter, although rather evenly distributed throughout the known universe, is not distributed uniformly, but is found in quite similar concentrations at comparatively regular distances." [emphasis mine]
Steps to the Stars, Daniel Fry, 1956

That’s a bonafide, readily verifiable scientific prediction; we now know for a scientific fact that a gravitational repulsion does exist between sufficiently separated galaxies and galaxy clusters. But this is not only a legitimate scientific prediction; it’s a prediction regarding the physical reality of the negative pole of gravitation (aka, “antigravity”) that’s the key to the concept of gravitational field propulsion as described by Alcubierre in 1994 - nearly forty years after the publication of Fry’s book. As such, this startling and seemingly prescient prediction demands an explanation, and yet the possible explanations all appear to be improbable. It’s a short list:

1.) Daniel Fry was provided with revolutionary scientific insights during his time at White Sands via scientists secretly working on advanced physics and astrophysics, and he crafted his tale of alien contact as a cover story to get that info out to the public without compromising his sources. This explanation seems to be highly improbable because even the most advanced technology of the 1950s could not resolve the distance and rate of acceleration of distant galaxy clusters, because the precision study of Type Ia supernovae velocities in relation to their distances – made possible only by a global collaboration of modern observatories working in tandem - wasn’t performed until 1998 when two very large and capable teams of scientists simultaneously discovered the dark energy effect. So, for this explanation to hold, in 1956 the US military’s astronomical science and technology would’ve had to have been at least a half century ahead of global academic astronomy and observational technology.

2.) Fry was some kind of theoretical physics savant who could infer radical new advancements in scientific understanding from sparse data. In this regard he would have to possess an innate talent for new insights surpassing that of the world’s Nobel laureate astrophysicists. However we see no other indication of this level of scientific genius in his life so this explanation seems to be very improbable.

3.) Daniel Fry really did experience contact with an alien intelligence that gave him scientific information.

I don’t know of any other explanations that could fit the bill, which is frustrating, because all of those three possibilities are fraught with unlikelihoods.

And then there are other anomalies in his scientific treatises, like this one:

“We know, of course, that if a length of insulated wire were wound around the soft iron bar, and a flow of electrons were induced in the winding, the two bars could be made to exhibit a repulsion as readily as an attraction. Note that in this case we have not destroyed the field of permanent magnet, we have not shielded the field, nor have we overcome it. We have simply produced a field which is in opposition to it, and the two objects now tend to separate rather than to come together.

The same possibility exists with respect to gravitational fields. While the results will probably not be achieved in the same way, it should not be too difficult to work out means of polarizing a gravitational field, once we discard the old assumption that it is impossible.” [emphasis mine]
Atoms, Galaxies and Understanding, Daniel Fry, 1960

Three years later Robert L. Forward proved this exact concept for the first time in the scientific literature within his landmark paper “Guidelines to Antigravity,” where he described a viable “gravitational dipole generator” which is designed like a toroidal electromagnetic inductor, except it uses a changing mass-current instead of a changing electrical current to polarize a gravitational field (in fact a changing current through a toroidal electromagnetic inductor does produce a vanishingly weak pair of gravitational and antigravitational poles, but our instruments simply aren’t sensitive enough to detect them).

So, once again, with this 1963 paper by Robert L. Forward we have identified the bleeding edge of academic physics advancement in a seemingly unrelated area, and we find that Daniel Fry was, at least in concept, a step of ahead of the global scientific community. Two major scientific breakthroughs anticipated by a minor rocketry technician with an alien contact story? Even Albert Einstein failed to predict the dark energy effect and the gravitoelectric dipole generator – are we to believe that Daniel Fry was a greater genius than Einstein?

At what point does an extremely improbable alien contact story become more probable than the alternative explanations which also strain credulity?

Idk. But I do know a genuine mystery demanding an extraordinary explanation when I see one. And this is one.
Hi Thomas, ... Well that was a pretty big mouthful to give to a self confessed 'scientific-ignoramus' wasn't it. lol.
Firstly I would like to reiterate that advanced science of any nature be it theoretical or proven is just not my area of much interest at all, never has been or ever will be! I leave that play-area to guys like you my friend. And if you say that 'confirmed-UFO-con-man Fry' couldn't have pieced his assertions together from what he had learned from people such as Jan Oort, Fritz Zwicky from way back in the early 30's and all of the other boffins between then and the mid-50's etc. then I will gladly concede that the guy was in fact a "theoretical physics savant" as you say. But that's in your sphere of understanding, and is far removed from my own criteria of belief in a person's credibility. And as I stated previously I am of the opinion that because the man is a 'proven' hoaxer that has made wild and quite frankly unbelievable claims of supernatural events , and then made a decent living by means of relentlessly promoting these spurious claims through hundreds of paid TV and radio appearances alongside of other just as dishonourable snake-oil-salesmen … the book sales and even maximised his earnings by founding a kind of minor cult organisation with it's monthly news letter and meetings that had the claim of being a non profit venture... ["but don't forget me in your wills Ladies and Gents"].
… And yes I have read all of the stuff that you cite about your rebuttal of Fry's detractors [ie Ray Sanford] on the Paracast site as well as the Fry.com page, and still conclude that even if the guy had ruminations well beyond his time, there is no way imho that they were sourced from Alien Illumination. It is just beyond my flexibility to accept that such gigantic cracks in a persons claims and nefarious actions can be smoothed over by merely stating that it was a low point in his career ..or as you put it " a fairly brief and shameful era in his story, and it’s possible that he did this to provide some evidence to support his story" .. not only mock photographs but physically building a pitiful model of an UFO , filming it, and then trying to pass it off as being genuine is a pretty iron clad indication of the man's believability ... charlatanism if you like, and not just a 'shameful era' and somehow justifiably designed to glean 'credibility' for a previous 'incredible' claim! [Telling an obvious lie to bolster credibility on a previous probable lie will never fly for me Thomas, and does not sound like the actions of the kind of genius that you are ascribing to him mate.]
Of course people can also 'misremember' aspects of any occurrence over the passage of time, but the 1949- to 1950 thing after so many public recounting's of the alleged event also rings pretty loud bells with me.
I agree with you about the reliability of the 'Lie Detector' and makes little difference in my personal discernment process, but another red-flag-be-cautious-type-indicator is when I learn that someone that is claimed to be so scientifically adept actually got his degree by mail order. [just like so many conmen throughout history]
And finally, … I can't remember your explanation of Fry's assertion that these ET's were actually humans from 'the mythical land of Lemuria that were at war with the equally mythical land of Atlantis' … I suppose that along with the undetectable Martian colony bit was just another justifiable lie in order to grab attention for the 'peace and love message' that Alan was eagerly purveying. …. Sorry, that was a cheap shot mate, but I dont have the time to go back and check,... how do you account for this obvious unsophisticated twaddle mate?
So to round off, i'll end by stating once again that Daniel Fry might well have been a fantastically forward thinking unacknowledged scientific mind of his time, but until proof comes to light there's not a cat in hell's chance that I would believe that he ever had any contact with any ET beings. … or a free ride in a flying saucer!
Which forces me to be of the opinion that anything that the guy claims is as spurious as any other contactee charlatan that i've heard of. And as you can guess from that statement, you could also deduct that for no particular clever reason or scientific qualification, … I doubt that he was a genuine genius either, … merely an adept collator of the available theories and knowledge that may not have been widely known about at the time.
I'll sign off on this one now Thomas, because I have really said all that I want to say about the subject, and yes I admit that I am not really qualified to judge anyone's scientific prowess, but just like anyone else on these forums, I like to consider myself a decent judge of character [by the available information of course] and I see that we are far apart from any agreement on this character. I think he is just a liar, and you suspect that he was some kind of genius. … And that's fine, we don't always have to agree mate. :Thumbsup:

Cheers Buddy.
 
Hi Thomas, ... Well that was a pretty big mouthful to give to a self confessed 'scientific-ignoramus' wasn't it. lol.
Unfortunately that’s the nature of the anomaly here – it’s the scientific content of the two books that he published on physics and which make no mention of his alleged contact experience, that stand out as something demonstrably extraordinary, not his account of an encounter with a supposedly “alien drone cargo craft.” Honestly my interest in the experience he described pales in comparison to my interest in his scientific writings, which are in many ways dazzling and unprecedented. In fact I often wonder if he wrote them, or if they were only published under his name.

Firstly I would like to reiterate that advanced science of any nature be it theoretical or proven is just not my area of much interest at all, never has been or ever will be! I leave that play-area to guys like you my friend. And if you say that 'confirmed-UFO-con-man Fry' couldn't have pieced his assertions together from what he had learned from people such as Jan Oort, Fritz Zwicky from way back in the early 30's and all of the other boffins between then and the mid-50's etc. then I will gladly concede that the guy was in fact a "theoretical physics savant" as you say.

But that’s just it - I’m far from convinced that Fry was a physics savant. He was a capable scientific mind (as one would expect of anyone working on experimental rocket motors at White Sands), but nothing I’ve seen convinces me that he could’ve made these extraordinary scientific predictions on his own. If they were his insights, then why didn’t he write and publish papers about them? He never published a single academic science paper in his life. And if somebody like Zwicky or Oort made these discoveries and simply told Fry about them, then why didn’t they write academic papers about their discoveries - they were published scientists, we would expect any of their discoveries to be in the academic literature. If Zwicky or Oort or anyone else knew about dark energy back in the 50’s, then why would they have kept it quiet? It makes no sense. So it appears that Fry was given information that nobody at his time actually knew about, and then that information was confirmed years later…in some cases more than 40 years later. I can’t explain that. And I’ve been trying to explain it for decades. It may be the greatest unexplained anomaly in the history of modern science…and it’s inexorably linked to a self-professed alien contactee. Totally bewildering. What am I suppose to do with that – ignore it? I can’t do that: when I find a genuine logical anomaly I’m the kind of obsessive freak who won’t let it go until I understand it. And I don’t understand this yet.

But what I can say is this: if I had advanced knowledge of gravitational field propulsion and the broader subject of theoretical physics, and I wanted to help move academic science forward without making waves, this is exactly how I’d do it – I’d find a bright guy like Daniel Fry, and give him some key clues to drop into a scientific book or two, and then let the scientific thinkers who stumbled upon that book put the pieces together for themselves. That way, when their papers about it get published, it looks like their own discoveries, and nobody’s the wiser that I played any part in it.

That appears to be what happened here. And my problem is that nobody I know of could’ve had that knowledge to pass on to Daniel Fry. Zwicky was on the right track, and he may have blurted out his suspicions about an antigravitational acceleration acting between the galaxy clusters over beers one night – but he didn’t have the empirical data to prove it or else he would’ve written a paper about it, and been credited with the discovery of the dark energy effect back in the 1950s….so how could Daniel Fry (who specialized in piezoelectric transducers) have known that his hunch was right? And that still doesn’t explain Fry’s foreknowledge of the gravitoelectric dipole generator, which emerged from Robert Forward’s theoretical analysis of general relativity three years after Fry’s book was published. Are we to believe that Daniel Fry was so plugged in to the cutting edge of science that he got these insights from both Fritz Zwicky and Robert Forward, and incorporated them into his books to lend credence to his contact story? Was Robert L. Forward even working on his seminal “Guidelines to Antigravity” paper three years before he published it? It’s not inconceivable, but it’s one hell of a stretch. As far as I can tell – and Sean Donovan’s biographical research bears this out – Daniel Fry didn’t have any special interest in gravitational field propulsion until the night of his alleged encounter.

And here’s the insoluble paradox that convinces me that the basis of your argument – that Daniel Fry was seeking fame and money by concocting an alien contactee story – is untrue: if Daniel Fry had written an academic paper demonstrating either the dark energy effect that he specified in his book, or a paper about a technological approach to gravitoelectric field polarization which he also indicated in his book, then either achievement would’ve garnered far greater fame, and research grants from the US military.

And yet he didn’t write a paper about either discovery. And I’m inclined to think that was not first-hand information to him – it was given to him, and he didn’t fully understand it. The problem being that it appears that no human on Earth had that information at the time he published his science books.

But that's in your sphere of understanding, and is far removed from my own criteria of belief in a person's credibility. And as I stated previously I am of the opinion that because the man is a 'proven' hoaxer that has made wild and quite frankly unbelievable claims of supernatural events , and then made a decent living by means of relentlessly promoting these spurious claims through hundreds of paid TV and radio appearances alongside of other just as dishonourable snake-oil-salesmen … the book sales and even maximised his earnings by founding a kind of minor cult organisation with it's monthly news letter and meetings that had the claim of being a non profit venture... ["but don't forget me in your wills Ladies and Gents"].
There’s a lot to unpack there, but the truth is that I’ve seen no indication that any of Fry’s books or appearances or his organization Understanding Inc., actually turned any kind of profit, or even that they were intended to. He appeared only to be driven by his interest in this subject – akin to our own interest in it – resulting from the experience that he maintained as real throughout his life. And frankly, it’s a mundane story compared to all the rest – he claimed that an unmanned craft was sent to his location walking alone in the desert, to make contact, and offer him a 30-minute ride and an equally long conversation with the operator who claimed that he was in orbit. That’s a far cry from the luncheons on the Moon and meetings with Venusian women that the other contactees claimed.

… And yes I have read all of the stuff that you cite about your rebuttal of Fry's detractors [ie Ray Sanford] on the Paracast site as well as the Fry.com page, and still conclude that even if the guy had ruminations well beyond his time, there is no way imho that they were sourced from Alien Illumination.
That’s a perfectly reasonable position. So who was his source then? And why can I find no reference to the antigravitational repulsion acting between the galaxy clusters prior to 1998...other than in a book by an alleged alien contactee? Dark energy is probably the most important discovery in physics over the past century - perhaps ever, and yet nobody seems to have anticipated it besides Daniel Fry. That's a very significant anomaly.

It is just beyond my flexibility to accept that such gigantic cracks in a persons claims and nefarious actions can be smoothed over by merely stating that it was a low point in his career ..or as you put it " a fairly brief and shameful era in his story, and it’s possible that he did this to provide some evidence to support his story" .. not only mock photographs but physically building a pitiful model of an UFO , filming it, and then trying to pass it off as being genuine is a pretty iron clad indication of the man's believability ... charlatanism if you like, and not just a 'shameful era' and somehow justifiably designed to glean 'credibility' for a previous 'incredible' claim! [Telling an obvious lie to bolster credibility on a previous probable lie will never fly for me Thomas, and does not sound like the actions of the kind of genius that you are ascribing to him mate.]
But I’m not ascribing real genius to him – I highly doubt that the insights in Fry’s books came from him, which is kinda my whole point.

And it’s not unreasonable to conclude, as Timothy Good did, that Fry was an honest man who briefly dabbled in making a fake film clip because as a scientist he knew that without any physical evidence nobody had any reason to believe him – and after his encounter with Phil Klass that regrettable impulse is understandable. But unlike Adamaski, it appears that Fry didn’t have the stomach to pursue it – he dropped it quickly and never went back to it. But he maintained his story until his death bed.

And I’m ashamed to admit this folly of my own youth, but I have a regrettable personal reason for seriously considering Fry’s faked film as a lapse in judgment. After my sighting as a seven-year-old boy, I immediately ran home to get the family camera and then ran back outside to take photos of the pair of zig-zagging UFOs that myself and four neighbors had been watching beside me. But the damn camera was out of film, and the UFOs didn’t reappear anyway. Then over the next 2-3 months I got increasingly frustrated that most people didn’t believe my account of that remarkable sighting event. So when one of the negatives came back blank with a spot on it, I showed it to some kids at school in a lamentable effort to convince them that my real and life-changing UFO sighting was real.

So you see – it would be hypocritical of me to dismiss Fry’s story because he faked a UFO film, because as a boy I was prompted by ridicule and disbelief to succumb to the same lapse of judgment that he did.

Of course people can also 'misremember' aspects of any occurrence over the passage of time, but the 1949- to 1950 thing after so many public recounting's of the alleged event also rings pretty loud bells with me.
He offered a seemingly reasonable explanation for that to Timothy Good:

” ‘I had to change it,’ he explained. ‘In the last edition [1966], I told the publisher to change it, but he decided this might not be a good for publicity, and he kept it to 1950 after I’d said to change it, because there was now no need to hide the fact that it was 1949.’

” ‘So there was a reason?’ I asked.

” ‘There was a reason,’ Dan replied, ‘because it turned out to be a year later then he had originally planned – that Alan could be here. He thought it could be done in four years; it actually took five years. Now, had the Pentagon, for example, taken this book seriously, at the time there was a pretty good chance they could have tracked him down. There had to be an escape mechanism. The fact is that on the evening of the Fourth of July 1950, I was not at White Sands – I didn’t arrive there until later in July. And everyone at White Sands Proving Grounds and in Aerojet knows that.'”
Alien Base, Timothy Good, 1998

I agree with you about the reliability of the 'Lie Detector' and makes little difference in my personal discernment process, but another red-flag-be-cautious-type-indicator is when I learn that someone that is claimed to be so scientifically adept actually got his degree by mail order. [just like so many conmen throughout history]
But he doesn’t claim to be exceptionally scientifically adept – he’s actually very modest in his interviews and talks. And the degree he received was freely granted to him from that diploma mill: he didn’t even ask for it.

And finally, … I can't remember your explanation of Fry's assertion that these ET's were actually humans from 'the mythical land of Lemuria that were at war with the equally mythical land of Atlantis' … I suppose that along with the undetectable Martian colony bit was just another justifiable lie in order to grab attention for the 'peace and love message' that Alan was eagerly purveying. …. Sorry, that was a cheap shot mate, but I dont have the time to go back and check,... how do you account for this obvious unsophisticated twaddle mate?
Daniel Fry claimed that aspects of The White Sands Incident were included in the book so that his account would be dismissed as nonsense by the military personnel who read it – apparently he had to get military clearance to publish his account because it alleges to describe events that transpired at the secure facility of the White Sands Missile Proving Ground:

“In composing my report of the incident at White Sands, I took great care to present it in such a manner that it would immediately be dismissed as nonsense by the `military’ type of mind, and yet would present all the vital information in such a manner that its value could readily be understood by the type of mind capable of making use of it.”
NICAP Policy on Contactees | Daniel Fry Dot Com

So I’ve always assumed that the Atlantis stuff was an example of his efforts to slip his book through the approval process by making it look like a work of fiction.

So to round off, i'll end by stating once again that Daniel Fry might well have been a fantastically forward thinking unacknowledged scientific mind of his time, but until proof comes to light there's not a cat in hell's chance that I would believe that he ever had any contact with any ET beings. … or a free ride in a flying saucer!
That’s fine. But frankly I’ve heard far more exotic accounts, like that of Dan Sherman, which appear to be true. It was a wild fluke that Dan Sherman’s account was granted an unexpected boost of supporting evidence via the Edward Snowden leaks, which confirmed Mr. Sherman’s detailed descriptions of the clever “onion principle” architecture of the national security apparatus.

And to be completely honest, I don’t really give a damn if Daniel Fry rode in an alien cargo craft for 30 minutes to NYC and back to White Sands. What fascinates me are the unique and astonishing forward-reaching scientific predictions, and the tantalizing hints at new physics which point to a superluminal gravitational field propulsion technology. Both of Fry’s scientific books hold stunning new insights into physics and astrophysics that were decades ahead of his time. I don’t really care if he got those insights from a human being or an alien being – but I’m dumbfounded because the more I’ve learned about theoretical physics, the more readily I’ve been able to identify the amazing and often novel theoretical physics insights within his books.

In fact it appears that his two science books, Atoms, Galaxies and Understanding, and Steps to the Stars, are a kind of IQ test written by somebody with a clear understanding of the Grand Unified Field Theory that even today remains beyond the reach of terrestrial academic physics. And I suspect that a sufficiently intelligent scientist who studies those two books can be led via the heuristic models therein to discover the theoretical foundation which throws open the doors to manned superluminal interstellar spaceflight.

In any case, that’s how I choose to approach this mystery. And I can say that this approach has been unfathomably fruitful – the discoveries I’ve made so far have been absolutely mind-boggling. I've only shared my results with Nivek and my closest friends at this point. I’ll share them with you here when the time is right.

So Which forces me to be of the opinion that anything that the guy claims is as spurious as any other contactee charlatan that i've heard of. And as you can guess from that statement, you could also deduct that for no particular clever reason or scientific qualification, … I doubt that he was a genuine genius either, … merely an adept collator of the available theories and knowledge that may not have been widely known about at the time.

I'll sign off on this one now Thomas, because I have really said all that I want to say about the subject, and yes I admit that I am not really qualified to judge anyone's scientific prowess, but just like anyone else on these forums, I like to consider myself a decent judge of character [by the available information of course] and I see that we are far apart from any agreement on this character. I think he is just a liar, and you suspect that he was some kind of genius. … And that's fine, we don't always have to agree mate.

Cheers Buddy.
We're good; I appreciate you taking the time to have a look at it. For me the prediction of dark energy alone is a staggering anomaly in the histories of astrophysics and ufology, but I’ve spent my entire life studying physics and astrophysics so I have the background to recognize just how astonishing and unprecedented that prediction from 1956 actually is. Not once in all of my research have I found a scientific prediction of such enormous import and unexpected nature, so far ahead of its time. It would be like finding a note in Isaac Newton's book stating "time moves more slowly on the surface of the Earth than it does in deep space - an effect which I shall heretofore name 'gravitational time dilation.'" And until I understand how a capable but otherwise unremarkable rocketry technician could’ve anticipated such an unexpected phenomenon over 40 years before its discovery - and several others of equal and greater import, I’ll always remain fascinated and mystified by the case of Daniel Fry.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
and still conclude that even if the guy had ruminations well beyond his time, there is no way imho that they were sourced from Alien Illumination

OK, but where were they sourced from?

They are real and coherent across multiple details. If any detail was wrong it would throw away the whole conjecture, but nothing was out of the kilter. We are not talking about a flesh in a pan, we are talking of integration of multidisciplinary studies. If he was dreaming it all up he wouldn't have 1 in 1,000,000 chance to get it right.

If UFO abductee / contactees make scientific or technological predictions that is solid proof that they are talking about real experiences.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Swdbg2.jpg


... and also I cannot get out of my head just how well before his time his description of
the inhabitants of the other planets that he were in contact with, were on a different
plane dimensionally and so we would never be able to find their presence anyway.

Sorry, @1963 got it completely wrong. That is not an oblong 3D structure, akin to the famous Siccoro UFO was, but simply a view from above of aeropline like, very flat, object with two elliptical wings. You can check it in the Technical Description on the Wikipedia.

Object even has four legs, which are a bit obscured by parallel lines used for shading.
 

1963

Noble
OK, but where were they sourced from?

That seems to be the million dollar question doesn't it? … and I already gave my opinion on that puzzle above, unqualified it maybe , but my opinion just the same.

They are real and coherent across multiple details. If any detail was wrong it would throw away the whole conjecture, but nothing was out of the kilter. We are not talking about a flesh in a pan, we are talking of integration of multidisciplinary studies.

Yeah sounds good... but have you considered that you could be tilting at windmills a bit here matey? … I mean as I constantly keep stating, I am no more of a sciencey-type-guy than your average forum poster, [probably less] but even I can click on many links that deny 'Dark Matter' altogether! … and you're preaching as though it is a done deal because so many phd carriers have invested so much of their careers in hopes of proving the theory? .. but it's not quite so cut n' dried is it ?... no need to troll through the internet, just take a squint at the much maligned good old Wikipedia . It may well turn out that Fry and all the others were right and for all I know it could be just around the corner,
"The prevailing opinion among most astrophysicists is while modifications to general relativity can conceivably explain part of the observational evidence, there is probably enough data to conclude there must be some form of dark matter"]
... but as I said, it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

If he was dreaming it all up he wouldn't have 1 in 1,000,000 chance to get it right.

… and it's 140,000,000-1 against me winning Euromillions Lottery on Tuesday night, but there's been 2,834,593,205 in the last 16 years.but I agree it's unlikely that he dreamt it.

If UFO abductee / contactees make scientific or technological predictions that is solid proof that they are talking about real experiences.

Now that's just a bit silly ! … Most, if not all [well quite a lot] of abductees / contactees make preposterous claims that are known to be BS !...


…. I think that this twit ..erm.. contactee was channelling the secrets of the universe to old Sir Patrick, … but in binary! :p

Sorry, @1963 got it completely wrong. That is not an oblong 3D structure, akin to the famous Siccoro UFO was, but simply a view from above of aeropline like, very flat, object with two elliptical wings. You can check it in the Technical Description on the Wikipedia.

Don't be sorry, just read my post again Dejan … I said the picture that he drew.... not the actual object! .. and to me at least, it does. …. not even a little bit to you?

Object even has four legs, which are a bit obscured by parallel lines used for shading.

And so had the Socorro UFO! …

“ When I first saw the object (when I thought it might be a car) I saw what appeared to be four legs of some type from the object to the ground. At the time, I didn't pay much attention to what it was — I thought it was an accident — I saw the two persons. I didn't pay any attention to the four "legs?" The four "legs" were at the bottom of the object, slanted outwards to the ground. The object might have been about three and a half feet from the ground at that time. I just glanced at it. ”

… so what the heck are you on about mate?
Let me guess?... You agree with Thomas and think that anyone with a different pov, needs 'correcting' uh? And so you try to nitpick at my posts. Well i'm used to that sort of pettiness matey, I post on a few far more sceptical sites than this one lol.
Even as a staunch advocate of the ETH, I still haven't found Yet an Alien Channeling claimant that I would consider to be genuine. [even Thomas' Daniel Fry... but we're cool with that, because we're grown-ups] All that I started the thread about Swedenborg in the first place was to highlight the things that I find interesting.... the fact that he seems to be the original 'Alien Channeling Claimant' and I'll be blowed if anyone can point to an earlier mention of Extradimensional Entities than Emanuel. … So why don't you post something about that ponderable anomaly mate.

Cheers.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Don't be sorry, just read my post again Dejan … I said the picture that he drew.... not the actual object! .. and to me at least, it does. …. not even a little bit to you?

Than I don't see why you brought it up? UFOs look like hats, why didn't you than show picture of a hat?

Yeah sounds good... but have you considered that you could be tilting at windmills a bit here matey?

I am not particularly keen on Dark Energy either. I am much more in favor it's opponent enthropic gravity, or whatever it's called.

But that is not the point. A scientific theory, like dark energy, consist of hundreds of moving parts, and whole ensemble of hundreds of moving parts, when checked against reality must stand up their ground. Even it is wrong, dark energy, is currently and remarkably passing 99% of tests. Point is, that because of hundreds of moving parts, an amateur like Fry can not by pure fluke predict dark energy. Somebody else, with scientific insight, has to tell it to him by definition.

People without scientific background, don't appreciate how complex science is and keep comparing it with common sense used in everyday life. But common sense is 1% of 1% of 1% of scientific knowledge. Common sense is completely irrelevant as a method of judgement of reality around us. Common sense is only relevant for questions of life, because we are creatures of habit and prejudice, but for science and technology it's utterly useless.
 

Ida G

Honorable
and also I cannot get out of my head just how well before his time his description of
the inhabitants of the other planets that he were in contact with, were on a different
plane dimensionally and so we would never be able to find their presence anyway.

When my concentration get a little better, I would love to partake in this discussion in a more advanced level. Just want to write that we can talk to them in person. The aliens. After my cat died I moved to another place to get peace from the trauma. It is very beautiful here. I began to talk to the aliens and asked them to show up. It has happened before that they show up and then it could just as well happen again.
On a long trip one day, I was on my way home and suddenly saw a bright, shiny star. It was so strange because there was clouds behind the star. And that is absolutely not logical. Then it just disappeared. Suddenly it came came back. And I was on the beach for around two hours filming, talking photo, waiting. Then suddenly I felt embarrassed and thought - could just be a plane. But a person who knows this place tells it is not a plane. Luckily other people have filmed the phenomena too around here. Both in 2016 and 2017. This could actually be the aliens hearing my call. But telepathically they told something else i do not mention here.

This is just one of the many short clips from the evening. ( The blinking light to the right is a plane )
The light started to move slowly to the left. And then suddenly popped up to the right. ( not on this filming )
Next day there were three lights in the clouds - none symmetrical. I only managed to film one of them.

The films from youtube is not mine - but from same area and similar light.


 

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Shadowprophet

Truthiness
I know I'm just not batting a thousand lately with the popular opinions on the subject. But I just don't see the point of a contactee, Of course, there are a lot of stories about people who claim to be contactees, My thing is, I'm just skeptical of the idea of a contactee being a thing.

I mean, why would they, An alleged race of advanced beings, contact a single individual, reportedly in ultimatum just to have a human pin pal to exchange recipes? I mean think about it, What has any truly alleged contactee ever really brought to the Ufology community but more questions with a dash of healthy skepticism. I want to draw some lines in the sand here, I Do believe In Aliens, I believe I've even seen things before. I believe the Universe is incredibly vast and it's almost Moronic to believe this earth with its diversity of plant and animal, Insect, Viral and bacterial life, Is the only place in this Vast universe that life exists. It's almost crazy to think we are alone.

But, I also believe that there are a lot of people who want to profit from communities like ours, Whether It's for attention, fame or monetary gain. I mean, We have all been on Twitter, We know how easily someone could fabricate something for even a few likes. I believe people like Nancy Lieder, And other people who proclaim Psychic Contact with extraterrestrials Are Honestly Faking it. For attention. Now, With that Said, I'm only trying to Sweep away the Bullshit here. There are True mysteries and real substantiation in many reported cases. But, I believe in a lot of Cases, A contactee, Is just a variation of a phony psychic. With little context beyond that. Sure, Sometimes We Get in Deep conversations, with our Pets. And that is a form of communication. But, Truth be told, One really must question, What would a truly advanced, superior intellect have to discuss with us? I mean truly? A primitive race of beings who function entirely off of prejudices and war and fear. This sounds pessimistic, But consider, Are we really Truly better than this as a whole of society?
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Insomnia.

Never heard of Fry but I was also wondering why an alien would impart something of value at random. This sounds like me traveling to a remote island, grabbing the first poor bastard I see and explaining in detail to him how a telephone works in the hopes one day he will build one and call me.

The fact that Fry apparently produced something credible is amazing. Reminds me of Ray Stanford. On the one hand you have this, and on the other all that ..... Probably best not to handle it too much.

The description of what contactees report has changed to reflect whatever we currently expect. Nordics gone, little gray aliens and frightening abductions in - Lord Kinbote excepted.
 

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
I mean, why would they, An alleged race of advanced beings, contact a single individual, reportedly in ultimatum just to have a human pin pal to exchange recipes?

Never heard of Fry but I was also wondering why an alien would impart something of value at random.

Guys, aliens do it for the same reason for we gather on this forum. Any hominid species, from this planet or any other, would be highly social. They do it out of curiosity, they do it because they conflicting feelings about us, they do it for bragging rights back at home, etc. etc. They are as human as we are, which is both benign and dangerous at a same time.

OK, @Thomas R. Morrison generously enlightened us with his scientific knowledge. Now, honestly, how much of it you retained? Can you coherently repeat any of it? Had any of it been of any practical use to you? Knowledge of general relativity have almost no use in everyday life. So, aliens can safely part with all of the knowledge, because until we discover it by our own means we won't even believe into it. Another thing is that different aliens say different things and so on, so there is too much confusion for a good science.

I believe people like Nancy Lieder, And other people who proclaim Psychic Contact with extraterrestrials Are Honestly Faking it. For attention.

Make no mistake. There is a lots of money in business of being psychic. On a Shark Tank Australia a woman came, with fortune telling site that had 6,000,000 visitors per month. Every million of visitors makes you $2,000 per months in AdSense income. Do your own math. If she claimed that she is in contact with aliens here brand would probably double in outreach.
 
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pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Out of curiosity how much of what Fry wrote was original? Meaning - was it a question of him having the required
bits & pieces at hand and looking at them in some new way or did he genuinely pull something out of his ass nobody had even heard before?
 
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