Hard times, The Modern progressive movement.

Discussion in 'Social Place' started by Shadowprophet, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I'm a Human, I try my best to be as tolerant as I can be, My stepdaughter is a modern hard-edged feminist.
    Now, I'm not picking fights, But, I wasn't when this whole issue started, No, The problem was, In the recesses of my casual point of view, A modern feminist crusaded me down to examine my points of view and point out all things wrong with the way I think. Now, In no way should my and my stepdaughter's discussion reflect normality within society, It's just the situation how it unfolded.

    But earlier yesterday, MY stepdaughter, Who, I and she are close, She begins talking about this group she is in, That Group is LGBTQ Plus. We are continuing a conversation about her and some of her thoughts on the group and its policies. when Suddenly she gets mad at me, And says, Look, someone that can't even Say the Letters rights, Shoudn't even be having this conversation. "Which, I hadn't, I know the initials, But, THe order they go in, LB, LG, LT, I Guess I was saying it wrong, And it pissed her off.

    It was at this time, A rush of genuine Anger came to me, which is rare, But I told her, You know, That's My Problem With The LGBT Plus community, It's a group of people who form together to Exclude other people with ridicule and tell them how what they think is backward and outdated and wrong, I continued, I have sat here for hours, Shown you years of acceptance in your choices and never once displayed bigotry or indifference toward you, Now, You tell me, I said, What Kind of person Hunts someone down in their home, Picks them apart with a fine-tooth comb looking for faults to persecute while being showed with praise by the accused, I was still angry, I said, I didn't have a particularly strong opinion about LGBTQ, But Now I do, I don't like your little Group I said. Your Group Sees me As the Enemy Because I am not like you, Because I'm straight, I said, Well, News Flash, There Will always till the end of time be Straight people, And unless you want to be in a hate group forever, You need to learn to accept that you can't form an opinion and force other people to be just like you. Because I've never shown you hate and I never taught you to hate. So you tell me who's backward and wrong in this situation.



    After that, Her tone changed with me, And To be honest, I don't know how much damage this will cause our relationship. But, If any of you have the understanding. I had no choice. The only other thing I could have done to please her would have been to renounce being straight And cast shade on straight people.

    I know she's young and emboldened, You have to understand, I've done my best to shower her with praise and acceptance, And I really have. But, Her problem with me is I am straight, And a man. It doesn't matter that she is my stepdaughter and I care for her, Groups and movements can only punish their viewpoints into someone for so long before they have had enough, When I'm already curled up in a ball on the floor, don't kick me. I will lash out.

    I don't suppose anyone will understand. I won't and can't sell my soul for acceptance from my stepdaughter. This wasn't an argument I was looking for, In fact, I tried really hard to avoid this, But an Active Card-carrying member of the LGBTQ, And me being a straight Middle-aged white man, Of course, I'm the problem and I'm a backward thinking monster. Well, Fuck that. My opinion matters just as much as anyone's and any other demographics, And I'm not having someone tell me how backward and wrong I am for having those freedoms, I kid you not, Her actions and opinions on these issues have driven me to think Negatively of The LGBTQ. As an uninformed hate group .
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  2. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I lament if mine and my daughter's relationship is strained, It sucks, I've tried so hard for years to build things to where they are, But, I was being attacked as backward and uninformed While showing support for her and her choices. All because I mispronounced the label of her group. I feel that's somewhat shitty, And it rightly pissed me off a little.
     
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  3. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I think your day might end about the time mine begins. The world is different when it's dark and still. Past midnight but still well before dawn - the time of day when people shouldn't be out and about. The world has things to do out there that we should keep our noses out of. For me it's when the Fear comes home to roost. I'd probably already be in it's Grippe but my wife is snoring so loud right now I can't actually concentrate long enough to get worried about anything .... and she's half a house away.

    I may record it one day and see if Dr.Jeff Meldrum can find any use for it.

    I've noticed over the past year or so that I've had the opportunity to observe the general public at large that at some point the 'Star Wars Cantina Scene' switch got flipped. I have seen more combinations of people of all description together as couples than ever before. I recently saw a young couple with a baby, both men, wearing Star Wars and Star Trek shirts. I thought "we won!" I'm straight but saw it as a victory for geekdom. Make fun of me at school eh? Forty years and a couple of multibazillion dollar franchises later you tell me who had the right idea ... but I digress ...

    Personally, I could care less who does what to who as long as nobody's getting hurt or taken advantage of. Of course, where I live and work probably isn't the same as some of the cornfed regions and I can imagine it's still 1970 in a lot of places.

    Sorry to hear about your stepdaughter. No idea. It does seem as if some people are preloaded to be insulted - wearing whatever it is in their sleeve to draw attention. Being openly gay is mainstream but I think it'll be a while before the LBGTQ, LMNOP and sometimes Y community has the same general acceptance. Yes, I mangled the acronym. But, I'm just a middle aged white guy and that's what we do when not perpetrating various other evils. Talk about judging a book by it's cover - you should hear some of the nonsense I have to listen to just because of my appearance. Beard, ball cap, pickup truck, jeans - people automatically assume my whole story is contained on a pamphlet they don't need to read. But of course that's OK. The day I decide that on the inside I'm actually a potted plant and show up at work dressed as a two hundred and some pound fern the nobody can say one single thing to me ......
     
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  4. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Thanks for getting this, It's all very complicated, It's intricate, I see the world, I accept that the world is the way it is, And I even accept that the people in it are all the way they are, It's just, A lot of these movements do have agendas, It's not about Just groups fighting for acceptance, It's about their Idea of making their groups the Norm, but doing it by their definition, To them, Normal it, not just acceptance and everyone accepting them, They want everyone to be an active member of their group. or that person outside of the group is an uninformed bigot monster :(,... I, I'm a 43-year-old straight guy, With, IN true fair honesty, My own opinions about Sexuality,

    Like, Some people claim they were born feeling Gay or, Born in the wrong body. And that Being homosexual is Something they have no control over. But, My thing is, I believe, To have sex with anyone is a choice, So then being homosexual is a choice, or abstinence would be a possibility on the table. I view that as pragmatic thinking.

    No, The LGBTQ people, View that as Archaic, Backward thinking and that makes me a monster. But the truth behind it all is. I'm not Gay, How can I be expected to really understand these issues? Aren't I giving enough acceptance? It's not fair sometimes. I think that's where I feel like, These groups Accuse and persecute. I mean, Okay, So I'm a backward Moron, My views are still Okay to have, Because, when it becomes not okay, To think as I do. Then it's not okay for anyone to think... Because by that time people are being controlled. :(
     
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  5. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    People with views serious enough to form groups probably don't represent their entire community at large. Drawing lines to establish an identity is one thing but all too often those same lines become trenches with barbed wire entanglements that we snipe across.

    As for sexuality, that's for the individual to decide what's best for them. Out of the 7 billion of us there are millions upon millions of people who are something other than heterosexual so I'd say that's a perfectly normal human condition. It's only when we mix in culture and religion that the nonsense starts. Perfectly OK if someone's behavior rubs you the wrong way - it's only a problem when you decide to inflict those views on others with the aim of changing their behavior. Sounds like your stepdaughter is guilty of some of that.

    "it's only a problem when you decide to inflict those views on others with the aim of changing their behavior"
    - apply that to abortion. John Kasich wants to jam a wand up every woman's furry coin purse in Ohio when they want an abortion so they fully understand the heinous sin they are committing. Krap, just when you think you're living in the 21st century there it is again - the Spanish Inquisition. Or something like it. You never expect it .....
     
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  6. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    It's something, A lot of people don't know about it. Things like Bonding with people and relationships. I've always had problems in these areas, My mind just doesn't form bonds naturally, By my nature, I'm a loner, So, For years, I've been working at building these relationships with people, Trying to be a better person than I am. I work at it.

    So there is this part of me freaking out at the prospect that I've hurt jordans feelings. I still feel like I've somehow dropped the ball when I could have been supportive Or maybe misunderstood her point of view.


    The irony comes in the fact, That, No matter what situation I'm in, there is always the possibility of a bipolar attack where I go on the defensive and see the opposing viewpoint as the enemy. It's why I always feel sad after conflicts. Because I know, if I had known the perfect thing to say, The conflict wouldn't have happened, And Maybe Even In a spot where I could have been more supportive, That I failed. But To be fair, ignoring my feelings about things isn't a solution. It's a bandaid for a wound that needs stitches.
     
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  7. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    Bacon, lettuce, tomato and guacamole was a sandwich produced here in a rainbow packet.

    Guacamole was late to the party but satisfied the sector who felt left out. Quorn plus a neutral friend are now on the list I see. The term of ramming something down someone's throat makes me think of hoping it was dipped in humus first.

    Blender makes it all fluid.
     
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  8. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    I always thought lettuce and guacamole were Quorn anyway. It's a confusing lunch for sure and just for the record humus is a straight up and down guy.
     
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  9. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    It is a confusing lunch, Especially when I want to make sure it's okay that she has any lunch she wants and somehow, I'm still a bad, For lack of a better analogy, I don't know, Guy that buys the food cooks the food and beings her the food on a plate. But to be fair, Sometimes I do misinterpret people, Maybe she wasn't coming from as offensive a place as I took it. To say that I couldn't have misunderstood the situation is giving me far too much credit with my bipolar track record. I could have literally offended her.
     
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  10. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    This is one of many problems we are facing today. The offended are calling the tune and even when no offence was intended, it is all about how it was received. Freedom of speach has been seriously wounded by this. Seen it happen when a public speaker was moved on for not saying one offensive word but because someone felt offended the police shut him down.

    Kids and fads.
     
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  11. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    I differ with your opinion over there being a choice in having same sex relations. On the cusp of being bi could be the only situation that leads to a choice.

    For any other sexuality I believe there to be only one attraction, therefore making it a done deal. Of course I can't be sure but from my stand point the only choice was which female. I thought this was the general consensus and can see why a problem occurs when the word choice is used.

    I never chose to fancy women, it was already there waitingm for me to grow into it.
     
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  12. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Everybody will differ when it comes to those deeply debated issues, like is sexual attraction a product of some uncontrollable impulse, Or is it a product of an environment. The complications come in when you look at the real world, Some people truly seem to be Homosexual because it's the current way to be "special and unique" Homosexuality has always existed, That is true, But, When there are so much overwhelming support and even social temptations and urges from groups to choose that kind of life. The environment or social atmosphere does play its role.

    No one would really be able to convince me that some people don't enter homosexuality because it affords them a group to be in and a purpose or cause to associate with. I don't feel It's purely an uncontrollable factor. Yet. I can't deny that there could be some kind of genetic predisposition to be Gay. But I do strongly feel All those outspoken groups that accept people with open arms for being homosexual. One has to account for, People, Especially young people crave acceptance. people fight for acceptance, Sometimes even kill for it, And The LGBTQ movement is powerful.


    Consider for a moment, People are in general followers by nature, If It was socially praised on this earth, To clone babies and then sacrifice them in the desert sun on hot rocks. I realize that an extreme analogy, but consider if there was a tremendous social outcry for people to do this act, And those people that did it, Where pulled into this group and accepted and appreciated and loved, Then you would see a whole lot of that happening. I won't deny that some people could be born with Homeoseual urges. But To have sex or not, That is always a choice. That's why I say to be Gay, Isn't what someone feels in their heart, To me, Homosexuality, Is an Act, Is a person a Thief before they steal? Is a person a liar before they speak? So is a person gay before they commit a homosexual act?

    I base it in logic, For someone to say, They can not control their actions, Then that person would be proclaiming they are not responsible for their choices to act or not on their impulses.

    If people can then just say, I was not in control, I had no choice, Then Who was in control? who made the choice to act? People will think I'm condemning homosexuality, That's not true. I just disagree with the idea that people don't have a choice in their lives.

    I had no choice But to Rob that bank and shoot five people, I was genetically predisposed to do that, Where does that mentality end?
     
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  13. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    That's what people don't understand about my viewpoint on this subject, In ultimacy, it's not about homosexuality.

    The real problem is the hate that groups have for others for being different. And yes, People will accuse me of Hate for my opinions, Because it's easy to do that, but I stand firm that My fear is not homosexuality, My fear is a world where people don't claim responsibility for their actions and choices and blame their actions and choices on genetics. It's a precursor to eugenic wars, Oh no, I had no choice, My genetics made me do this thing, And then, The real problems start, when we judge people based on their genetic markers, Then we begin judging people before they commit a crime, Old Fred over here he's never killed a person but he has all the genetic markers of a cold-blooded killer, He has no choice but to kill. Let us lock him up before he kills. Eugenics or the beginning of eugenic wars can be seen in people who say, My genetics make me want to do X thing. It's frightening.

    I have always believed that people, Have a choice, over every action they partake in, and to that end are responsible for every act they commit to. Homosexuality in the case of this discussion, Is just a hot topic cover blanket, for the deeper issue, people wanting to proclaim that they are not responsible for their choices and actions.

    This frightens me deeply, because if people can be genetically prone to be Gay, Then Pedophiles can be genetically prone to hurt kids. Then, The pedophile isn't responsible for his actions and choices either. People, in my world view, Simply have to take responsibility for their choices. because no one else can.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  14. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    In rhetoric, This sub-topic, Is really about the nature of Action and Choice. Some say some people are born with the Urge to be homosexual. And I believe that. But then they say that they had no choice but to be homosexual.

    To me, Logic states, that if it's unavoidable that a person be homosexual just for having a predisposition for it genetically, That that is what makes a person gay or not, Then, Those people born with hate and violence and the desire to kill. Then they are killers before they ever commit an act of violence? It speaks of a world where people are told and telling other people, That We don't have a choice in certain things certain actions we partake in because genetics made us do that. This is actually especially damaging to a culture where we are told, We have so much choice. But then for people to say, I didn't have a choice, genetics. It's a logical fallacy honestly.

    Humans spend their entire lives learning to control their very nature, We are all born as infants that don't possess understanding, As we grow we learn many lessons, But, We don't as 43-year-old men, set at out desks and fill a diaper full while waiting for someone to come change us because we have grown and understood that we must do those things for ourselves. We as adults, Don't knock the cards out of our friend's hands because they won at a card game, but as children, we have the urge to do this.

    For a person to say, I had this urge And had no control over my choice of action., Is to deny what being a human is really about, Choices and actions, It's why one literally can't be a criminal before they commit a crime, Because, learning to control ourselves and our impulses, Is a huge part if not a dominate part of growth. When life and living and learning and growth are all based around us, learning to control ourselves, People that say I didn't have a choice and had no control Bring up a really good argument about common sense viruses politically correct culture honestly.
     
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  15. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    Pedophilia is a product of pedophilia in quite a few cases and the same cannot be said for sexuality.

    Your stepdaughter won't like it when I say there can only be three variations to our sexuality and it is as simple as one, the other or both. The rest are bells and whistles on the same three, well two.

    I don't get all this LG, LB, LT stuff, never heard of this addition.

    Lesbian gay ? = lesbian
    Lesbian bi ? = Bi
    Lesbian trans? = lesbian

    It's the law of three which corresponds with birth gender, nearly all have one or the other but there are a few who have both.

    We have allowed this to happen and it's growing into a cult. This movement is pushing the realms of reality, just like science and religion have to a certain degree. Creating an illusion of there being so much more to a now simple and outdated understanding that we live a life as one or the other with a fixed sexuality and gender.

    As to why we have permitted this self identifying generation must stem from love and care, giving room and respect to become what you wish. A nice thing yes but the result is a circus like show for attention.

    Three is the magic number.
     
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  16. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I know people will think, I'm condemning

    Thanks for understanding me brother, I'm just Stoned and debating at random, I know it sounds like I'm condemning sexuality, But, No, My true thoughts are if two people of the same gender, Really love each other, Love is a beautiful thing and I Support that with my whole heart. No, I think my problem is, For a lot of people, Homosexuality has become more than just who someone chooses to love, It's become a political moment with sides debating fiery arguments and my thing is, Why is it special or worthy of debate of two people want to have sex? Why is it such an important issue that groups of people want to ridicule others for not thinking as they do? My thing is If two people love each other and it's not about politics or Group movements, Yes. I would never stand in the way of anyone's love. I support love, It's a good thing. No, It's just with homosexuality, And The LGBTQ thing it's not about love, Not really. It's about sex and lust and the dirtier parts of sexuality, Does that make sense? It's like these groups have a moral high ground to speak about pornographic issues. And isn't sex for the bedroom? I'm only 43, But I know I am too old fashioned to fit into today's world though.
     
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  17. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Not really a choice for most I imagine - a realization. But agreed, there are those who sort of dither back and forth. All pretty much business as usual for human beings.

    Kind of curious that humans will f*** absolutely anything but the one thing Yahweh didn't endow (most) of us with is the ability to go f*** ourselves. You would think that might be a real problem solver but I doubt we would have ever left the cave to do anything and would've become an evolutionary footnote instead of the dominant species on the planet.
     
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  18. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Well, I guess the whole idea is there's room for everybody's opinion. Something people who form groups sometimes forget.

    Your stepdaughter will cool off eventually.
     
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  19. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Thank you, bro, And yeah, She has already cooled down over the whole issue. And so have I everything seems pretty well normal with me and her. I think maybe I was just too worried about the argument. I mean, Sometimes, After arguments I question everything, Looking for mistakes I made because Of my Bipolar goings-on, I always assume it's somehow my fault and I try to find that fault. Oddly, Many many times, It turns out it was my fault and I find the mistake I made.

    But I feel the real skeleton in the pile. Is my fear of losing her. I think that was the underline issue the whole time. I didn't want to argue with her and push her away from me. I don't talk about Jordan Much. But that's because She means so much to me, I've been a stepfather A few times in my life, Jordan is the only one of any of them, That Ever Called me Dad, And she truly does love me. I didn't think a stepparent could love a stepkid that much, But She means almost everything to me, Shes the Daughter, I finally Got to have, Because she let me be her Dad for real.

    To me, This is the greatest thing ever, And I fear that I could somehow lose that.
     
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  20. Sheltie

    Sheltie Noble

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    I'm not trying to be flippant and I apologize if this offends anyone, but this SNL sketch completely sums up how I feel about the same sex debate!

     
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