Hudson Valley UFO sightings

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by pigfarmer, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    I guess if you consider that a bad hoax - then you must really mock and put down the hoaxes of Rex Heflin, Paul Trent, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, Guardian & some others I can't think of right this second.

    So in an era where everybody has a phone in their pocket (plus surveillance cams and dash cams) - nobody can get a picture of a structured flying disc. Yet, we are supposed to believe that in 1950 that a farmer saw a flying saucer hovering above his farm and he had the train of thought to 1) run into the house, 2) look for his camera (god knows where it was - could have been anywhere) 3) Paul's good forture let their be film in the camera with some shots still available, 4) run back outside to photograph UFO 5) UFO was nice enough to stick around to let him run in the house and flip, flop & flounder looking for his camera) 6) and then let him take pictures of it

    People can't pull that off now with phones in their pockets. But the reason my points above are sarcastic is because it didn't happen like that. He slung a truck mirror over the wire that you see in the picture. Same thing with Rex Heflin...guy just happened to have a Poloroid camera with film in it. And his flying saucer looks identical to model train wheels - which he was a big model train guy as he had them in his basement.

    So I'm not sure why you think Morristown, NJ was a terrible hoax. I think it was awesome and it went exactly like planned. Including the part of Bill Birnes making a fool of himself.
     
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  2. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Have you seen this page before?...

    My Account of Hudson Valley UFO

    ...
     
  3. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Actually, I have not.
    I will take some time to digest all this - and thanks, I really did want to find some other account.
    At first blush roblem is geography. I feel like Mac Brazel's next door neighbor saying .. but but but ...

    I will report back, and thanks again
     
  4. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Couldn't find anything specifically for March 1984 but below is what was in one of the major papers immediately prior to that in February 1984. At that point the phenomenon was known in the area. This article pretty much tells you how they did it right from the horse's mouth. I am very familiar with that area of Rockland county as well as the Indian Point nuke plant - these would be about as far away as the sightings got. Headed east roughly the same distance the air traffic controllers at the tower in Danbury, CT had no problem identifying these planes and they were getting pissed.

    Unrelated - when Indian Point accidentally vented radioactive gas in the late winter/early spring of 2000 we heard those creepy sirens and the emergency broadcast alert. I remember having a conversation with my supervisor at the time and saying something like "now let me get this straight - you want me to go TO the leaking nuclear power plant that everyone is running away from?" Yup. The life of a service guy.

    I don't doubt the person's veracity who wrote up their experience but I just think they were subject to the same sort of thing that occurred much later with the Morristown UFO hoax that GSD posted. Familiar pattern there - expert witnesses, outside bullshit artists with their own agenda, doubt even after the hoaxers admitted it and demonstrated how they did it. Belief is hard to overcome, but then, we don't really have to. In 1984 Imbrogno was running around whipping s*** up into a frenzy and making a carnival of it, and we know his story.

    There is no dispute that these pilots were doing this, as I said I saw it myself and can personally attest to that. It would be a stretch to say that in addition to that there was also a real boomerang shaped vehicle from parts unknown operating in the area at the same time doing just about the same thing, which is pretty much what Imbrogno would have us believe. He certainly didn't want a terrestrial explanation because it would switch off the limelight. Of course, conspiracy theorists jump right on the bandwagon. Who doesn't love a parade? This is a great example of how iconic UFO cases are written, which then get added as evidence to other iconic cases, which create a whole big ball of boogers.

    Not sure how you could read what's in the article below and draw any other conclusions.
    upload_2018-8-28_7-32-20.png
     

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  5. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    but no veteran ufologists, fooling the media is easy
     
  6. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i am still undecided if ed walters was really hoaxing, the model found in his old house is too convenient to me, why would anyone even leave it there instead of just throwing it at the trash?
    yes for the others
    yep, its one of those cases wich i have no idea why are they so famous
    once again i agree
    because it was a boring old chinese lanterns one?
     
  7. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Bill Birnes is a media content producer first and a 'veteran ufologist second'
     
  8. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    "veteran ufologist"
     
  9. michael59

    michael59 Celestial

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    Why would anyone categorize a UFO hoax as awesome?

    As someone who has pretty much lost everything because of the reality that this phenomenon is fact not fiction. I only have one thing to say to you.......

    Get a life.
     
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  10. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    ?
     
  11. michael59

    michael59 Celestial

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    In post #41, Creepy Green Light said,

    Does that answer your question, Pigfarmer? You didn't give me a lot to go on so I am assuming that is what you mean by *?*.
     
  12. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Yes, thanks. Hoaxes are perpetrated for many reasons. I have some trouble with these two kids doing this and creating an unnecessary fuss, not to mention the obviously stupid idea of dangling flares from balloons. Their reasoning doesn't outweigh the aftereffects. I suspect that some of those who made public statements without knowing about the hoax were privately humiliated. To really go out on a thin limb, suppose this hoax caused a person so overwhelmed by the event to commit some truly horrible act. Another vesion of yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater. What if they started a fire and caused someone to lose their home. I understand their point but in addition to the fine they need a good swift kick in the ass.

    It did serve to illustrate how people get carried away by belief even in the face of blatantly obvious facts. This is why I started posting about the Hudson Valley 'flap.' It just isn't what many wanted to be and as it turned out some of those directly involved had an agenda other than belief in alien visitation. Imbrogno in one event, Birnes in the other and so forth. We don't need the damned carnival atmosphere.

    Despite my obvious skepticism I wouldn't be here at all if I were totally dismissive and thought I already had the answer. There is something at the core of this phenomenon and we are each entitled to our opinions. It does get frustrating though to waste time on things that don't deserve it

    Curious what affected you so strongly - if you want to share
     
  13. APIGuy

    APIGuy Independent Field Investigator

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    Are you a witness?

    I had some serious doubts about the whole story after reading Night Siege, and this was before Phil Imbrogno's integrity came into question (false credentials). One was the object's avoidance of moonlight, and IIRC, there was a peak around certain days of the week, which is what you might expect from a hoax.
     
  14. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Yup. Have a look through this thread. Small planes, absolutely no question about it. Only folks not from this immediate area thought it was anything else.

    Oh, and just a heads up - I'm not really a retired MIB - but can you be certain ? :)
     
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  15. Zeke

    Zeke Infrequent

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    I had a Hudson Valley sighting but not sure what it was.

    In mid 1980s, I along with dozens of other kids around 10 years old, saw a light hover and descend into the forest, it was not anything popularly described by other witnesses of the Hudson Sightings of the time. We could only cancel out plane or helicopter as it stood still, this is before commercial drones. Naturally we deduced it had to be a UFO!

    Of course we can't be sure what it was but when I later found out the sightings were a thing, much later in life, I recalled this incident and wonder if it was a legit sighting. I'm well aware that military flew delta shaped plane formations. However, this makes me lean towards thinking that real ET/UFO sightings happened, as (we know from other cases) military would come in and try to mimic a sighting to confuse the public or whatever protocols they have in place (aka cover up).
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  16. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Interesting - and thanks. If you want to give me an approximate date and location I'd be happy to check the local newspaper archives.
     
  17. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    The Roots of Complacency

    Something truly astonishing happened.... Not far from New York City, along the Hudson Valley, as hundreds of astonished people looked up, many driving along the Taconic Parkway, they saw something no one had ever seen before. Some called it a "Space-ship from outer space" (for want of anything better) but it was generally described by numbers of competent, professional persons as startlingly brilliant lights, in the form of a "V", or Boomerang, silent, slowly-moving, and very large close-by object. It has often popularly been called the "Westchester (County) Boomerang".

    The world has never known about this, even though the event happened not once but several times, and over the course of several years. To all intents and purposes, this was a non-event. The media across the world has remained dumb. Local papers, radios and TV's, it is true, did momentarily carry spots along with the daily news, but there the news just vanished.

    How is it possible that in the United States, where even trivial events are often flashed across the world, only one TV and radio network carried an account of this utterly astounding event? Far, far lesser stories are spewed forth across the world! Could it possibly be that the whole thing just never happened? No: many times there was good, but extremely local, media coverage; many hundreds have personally attesteds to us, and to many others, that the "Westchester Boomerang" was most undeniably, very truly real to them. Furthermore, many witnesses at a given time, were geographically separate, and unknown to each other. Cars along the Taconic Parkway, a well traveled highway, stopped, and passengers looked in amazement, many frightened and bewildered at the spectacle.

    Police department "blotters" proved that many calls came to several local police stations, and we have tape recordings of a number of the police involved. The Boomerang was undeniably real; it was not a chimera! Yes, something astonishing transpired, but was no one "minding the store", was everyone asleep at the switch? What about law enforcement agencies (whose duty is certainly to alert and assist when something amazing is afoot; what about civilian and military personnel?

    When hundreds of largely professional, affluent people, in suburban areas, are astonished, awestruck, and many frightened by what they could only regard as a very bizarre event, would this not at least warrant and bring forth some comment from the nation's media? And what about law officers, government officials and... what of the FAA which supposedly monitors the airwaves over which the "Boomerang" repeatedly flew, and thus constituted a serious hazards, especially over the Taconic Parkway? And what of scientists, to whom these events should have been of breathtaking scientific concern? But nothing... except, oh yes, a writer so inept at his task that not once did he check, even briefly, the voluminous tapes and other material amassed by the present authors: a remarkable example of investigative reporting. His conclusion: the Boomerang was caused by nothing more than a flight of small planes flying in formation, a totally untenable conclusion in view of the facts.

    It would appear that we really have TWO astounding stories, rather than just one... different but related... and equally incomprehensible: the story of the low-flying luminous Boomerang (in itself which could rank high in the annals of science fiction... if it were science fiction!) and the second, a totally unaccountable dereliction of duty (and there seems to be no other word for it), a complete indifference to accountability.

    It was a malady which appeared to plunge all who encountered it, EXCEPT the witnesses, into a deadly stupor. Such a malady, or perhaps a virulent virus of apathy and indifference to duty, could immobilize cities and a whole country. Of course, we don't know what the Boomerang was really about, for the Police and other law enforcement officers were derelict and failed in their duty to assist the many who called [in] fear and danger, as well as in awe and wonder.

    The FAA utterly failed to be concerned for air safety, flight rules, navigation lights, when told that some utterly strange and possibly menacing object was cruising close over streets and houses. the Military was derelict by not attending to public safety and matters of National Defense (the country could have been subtly invaded!) the Scientists failed to uphold their "Hippocratic" oath of science: they were derelict in following the quest [of] an outstanding mystery. the media, well, where were they? Truly derelict. Always avid news hounds, rushing to their typewriters or microphones to rush the news to the world (good, bad and trivial), but where were they? Hardly any of the 50 States heard the Boomerang story. Why? Utterly indifferent and apathetic? If so, why? Of the two stories, that of the Boomerang if by far the more directly told. Bizarre and fantastic though it may be (and is) it merely needs competent retelling. The facts are on record. From the hundreds of cassette tapes in the thousands of statements made by witnesses, the Boomerang is a matter of record. But the second story, well, that is another matter.

    This story is not at all directly told. Here there are no cassette tapes, no clear cut descriptions, and no policeman, no scientist, no military man, no media person, no FAA has recorded why they were derelict. We can only infer, as one might infer from the pages of history. We can only deduce and play detective. And we must try, for this second story, more truly a puzzle, could be of utmost importance to finding out how we, as humans, act under stress, trauma, and fear...for the Boomerang had all of these! The puzzle has far more parts than the tale of the Boomerang. It is, indeed, a part of a continuing story of mankind's pioneering search for adventure and meaning, but repeatedly dashed and frustrated by those who cannot look to the heights of the pioneer: by the "it will never fly" or "it can't be done" mentalities. These who always must say that "since it can't be done, there is no need to even think about it or even talk about it. Therein lies the spawning ground of indifference, of apathy, and [of] dereliction of duty. All those who didn't follow through on the Boomerang event were not willfully derelict: they were merely the thousands of "it will never fly" and "it can't be done" and so there is no need to think about it. The corollary is: "Since it can't be done, whomever said it had been done, were simply deluded... they must have been mistaken, and so no need to look into it further". It is the failure to seek for the light of the tunnel because there couldn't be a light.

    Intellectual adventure is sterile when there is continual inability to seek answer to challenges, to seek ways out of the tunnel of indifference. In the story of the Boomerang, the FAA, the media, scientists, politicians, the military.... all may momentarily touch upon the mystery, but suddenly it appeared that apathy saps further energy to incentive, and in its stead is a great desire [for] nothing... it becomes a hotbed of inertia... a great desire to do nothing, fobbing it all off in the guise of a handy solution, like "planes in formation". It is not as from a seeming direct desire to be in duty, but it is more as though the call for duty has vanished, or as though some bad fairy had administered a sleeping potion, an apathy draught. How else might one hold that otherwise responsible law enforcement, FAA, military, the media etc. would renege on their duties?

    There is a more realistic answer than calling upon some bad fairy (though it would certainly fit the facts) and that is that it all lies in our human (mental) nature. A psychologist would express it more professionally, but it simply amounts to the fact that the human mind has definite limits for acceptance and accountability. In the history of science this syndrome has been seen many times and in many ages. For instance, how often has it occurred that totally revolutionary ideas, so novel at first as to be utterly neglected or discarded... a form of apathy and total indifference. As a homely analogy, one might say that such a totally novel idea "overheats the mental human circuits" and the fuse blows (or the circuit-breaker cuts out) as a protective device for the mind. The time is not yet right for the age and the new idea might just as well not have been there in the first place. Mankind was not yet able to handle it.

    Thus when mankind is presented with a totally bizarre, shocking, traumatic event (the Boomerang?), a mental circuit cuts out. Instead of a challenge for action, there is a dead battery. This is, of course, well known in individual cases of amnesia in, for example, "shell shock": could it be that a collective amnesia or apathy can come into play? If so, might it be possible that collectively people can react traumatically, as to the Westchester Boomerang, to a collective amnesia, whether they are policemen, media people, the FAA etc.?

    Whatever be the case, the effect is real. Many instances in history.... and the Boomerang is its most recent and spectacular example... when the breaking point of the collective mind occurs, it must openly disregard patent evidence of the senses: it can no longer encompass them within their normal borders. The Holocaust perpetrated by Hitler in WW II is another sample: people simply refused to accept, and were indifferent to the evidence, because their minds couldn't bring themselves to accept that such a Holocaust could possibly be, despite ample evidence. It was also a "mental circuit breaker", a general apathy and a will to indifference.

    The Boomerang and the Holocaust are but striking samples of what happens when the collective mind willfully disregards evidence, when "it can't take it". The entire modern UFO syndrome is another: here we have utterly ample evidence of the global nature of the UFO phenomenon. [In] thousands of instances and over many countries, the evidence for the UFO phenomenon is clear, but those in position of policy and authority (FAA, educators, scientists etc) are deaf or purposely obtuse. Apathy goes hand in hand with the ability to accept even the most inane answers, anything whatever, just to stave off the necessity to think. So we cannot at the moment expect to do [but] little about the wealth of material collected on the Westchester Boomerang (or for the much more abundant wealth of UFO material). The circuits are closed; apathy holds sway. But history has shown that in time the information and questions dam breaks, sometimes cataclysmically, and later, why, lo and behold, the pundits by a complete irrational turn of fact, will say, "Oh, we knew this all the time!"

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  18. Wade

    Wade Stare..... They are always staring

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    I know this is changing the subject but I seem to remember Imbrogno puting the feelers out and announce his re-imurgence into high strangeness matters. I don't know if that possibly included a book as well but I wouldn't bet against it.
     
  19. Zeke

    Zeke Infrequent

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    Unfortunately I can only estimate summertime 1986, possibly 1987, so not good to go by.

    My hypothesis today going by researchers is it was a military operation mimicking UFOs to see how the public would react as part of their "alien invasion" card, but never really needed to be played with the internal collapse of the USSR.

    There was a bizarre poster on Reddit who would reply how as a child he was somehow abducted and taken on a space craft whose occupants wanted him to try to operate the craft! The implication I think being the craft was someway symbiotically interfaced with consciousness, and a certain type of consciousness was needed for it to work, so they were testing children. I know it sounds wild, but it was an interesting story posted in response to a Hudson Valley thread.
     
  20. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    Well, call me pisher.

    That got used in the preface of the second 'expanded and revised' edition of Night Siege. I'm looking at it now on my bookshelf right next to The Philadelphia Experiment.

    Have a look at a map and the mystery will be revealed. The Westchester Boomerang was also known as the Dutchess County small-planes-with-lights. Westchester is two counties south and east of here. The further away you get the weirder these things looked - you couldn't see the slight variations in the formation and it could appear to hover because they weren't moving that fast while maneuvering.

    The FAA did speak to the pilots involved and found that they weren't breaking any laws - it's in the newspaper clippings I attached to this thread. I believe in one of them Imbrogno himself confronted at least one of the pilots at Stormville Airport. Don't think that one is still operational, it was a grass strip a few miles from here. Now home to a semi-permanent flea market that we've been to many times. I can step out on my deck and watch planes come and go from the Dutchess County Airport - since renamed to something I can't remember just now. No mystery to the ATC - the planes also came & went from there. I actually think they used a third called Sky Acres which is also local, very small and as far as I know still operational. The ATC in Danbury, CT in Fairfield County knew exactly what these were and were righteously pissed.

    After my direct observation of the source of the I also remember speaking to two NYS Troopers in the parking lot of the garden center I worked in, right about where I had my sighting. Still there - Adam's Fairacre Farms in Poughkeepsie, NY - also on a map along with the two airports. You can see the proximity to the airports I mentioned, then measure the distance to the Westchester border or maybe the Indian Point plant. Also make sure to look at the terrain - very hilly and that's also a factor. One trooper had the weight of the world on his face and wasn't too happy about all the fuss but it doesn't seem any laws had been broken.

    If Special Forces Phil could make it up here to confront the pilots, and another Westchester nitwit offered a reward for their names (in those clippings), why didn't all that come out in the wash too? I seem to recall that Hynek (and Stanton Friedman for that matter) gave UFO talks right here at the local community college - not connected with these events - so he certainly knew how to get here. I just don't think the poor man was on his game and Imbrogno wasn't giving him full disclosure.

    Awfully coincidental that a known hoax or whatever you want to call it, that was pretty well documented locally, occurred at the same time as the Westchester Boomerang. So it's either a conspiracy to cover up alien .... tourism .... or just what I said it was.

    When I hear the thunder of hooves I think horses not zebras.
     

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