Intelligent alien life: astronomy, astrobiology, and the age of inhabitable worlds

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Thomas R. Morrison, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

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    I agree – this the biggest break in the ufo topic that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. So I’ve been stalking this story like a hungry panther eyeballing a stray gazelle, and it just keeps getting more fascinating all the time. I have an excellent BS meter, and I find Lue Elizondo to be absolutely credible. He’s still bound by his national security oath so he has to dance around some questions, but otherwise he states his points clearly and plainly and honestly.

    So I’m stunned to see so many people, especially within the field of ufology, slinging snide innuendoes and fabricating all kinds of ludicrous conspiracy theories. These people are seriously asking us to believe that this story is all some kind of nefarious covert operation designed to convince the public that ufos are real. It’s a laughable accusation on its face: after 70 years of denials and cover-ups, they’re suggesting that the Deep State has done a complete about face, for some totally incomprehensible reason. And the number of people pushing this rubbish is astonishing – I had no idea that so many people were so incredibly bad at thinking.

    As I understand it, Mr. Elizondo submitted dozens of videos for declassification review, and what we’ve seen so far are the brief (and most likely de-rezzed) video clips that the authorities have designated for public release. I think we can expect to see many more clips in the months and years ahead, but I doubt that we’ll ever see the best footage that they have, due to its extremely high intelligence value.

    For example, in this interview published a few days ago, a Naval Operations Specialist with the USS Nimitz CSG at the time of the 2004 flap in their vicinity, testifies that he got to see clear gun camera footage (not FLIR) that caught a domed craft with a flat bottom performing radical flight maneuvers at such high accelerations that it couldn’t even be seen in some frames of the video because it moved so quickly between successive positions. Everyone in the control room was flabbergasted by what they were watching, and it was self-evident that the craft was not of earthly origin. We’ll probably never see this footage, possibly because it may hold vital clues to understanding the operation of this exotic craft:



    You have to bear in mind that anything released to the public, also means sharing it with our geopolitical adversaries. And anything which might lead to the development of this kind of technology by our adversaries can’t be released for national security reasons. I find this to be intensely irritating, but I understand the logic.

    No. If you listen to the interview above, or the other recent interviews with Kevin Day (a radar operator with the USS Nimitz CSG at the time of these events), the AAVs/ufos seemed to find our intercepts to be some kind of nuisance – they wanted nothing to do with us. So they simply evaded us with enormous air superiority, then went on about their business.

    Kevin studied the radar tracking data in detail at the time, and noted that these objects would be flying at only 100 knots at 28,000ft, then when approached, they’d drop down to about 50ft above the ocean in .78 second. Then they’d hop back up to 28,000ft when the interceptor aircraft departed. That’s an average speed of 24,000 mph, and a minimum acceleration of 5600 g’s. I suspect that the accelerations were actually much higher, but without high-speed resolution we can’t calculate the numbers more precisely.

    Apparently the objects were never fired upon because they never exhibited any kind of hostile behavior. Thank god for small favors. The Tic-Tac did a barrel roll around Cmdr. Fravor’s F-18, and appeared at his CAP station in the blink of an eye when it departed. Any conventional weapon would be entirely incapable of striking an object that can accelerate in that manner (not to mention whatever offensive capabilities it might’ve had). The only weapon we have in service that might have a chance of striking such a craft would be a laser fired from a ship (which the Navy does have now) – but the targeting of those things is ridiculously slow, and Cmdr Fravor was unable to get a target lock on it for reasons unknown. So it would be a miracle if a high-power laser could get lucky and strike a device maneuvering like that. And I think it would be very, very bad idea to even try – sorta like throwing rocks at a Sherman tank.

    Two points: the only data we’ll see has been deemed to be of little to no intelligence value, so I doubt we’ll ever see anything definitive and exciting. We’ll have to evaluate cases like this as a whole – testimony of the witnesses, whatever reports they made (I’ve heard that there were 38 reports issued by the AATIP) which are unclassified, and some basically worthless FLIR clips. Any “smoking gun” evidence will be too highly classified to be released to the public. That’s my view anyway.

    Yeah I found dozens of fake YouTube accounts publishing thousands of bogus videos to cloud this story: clearly there are a lot of people in the defense and intelligence communities who are very unhappy about this story going public. Mr. Elizondo has been threatened by some of these people.

    His courage coming forward is incredible and extremely laudable. The man’s a national hero as far as I’m concerned.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  2. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    its enough proof for me at least
     
  3. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    finished "operation trojan horse" yesterday, a amazing book
    heres a teaser of what the book had:
    MIB-like people claiming they build the airships seen in the 1909 and 1897 ufo flaps, bearded airship men, classical charles fort mistery sky falls, purple jelly raining from the sky, a half peeled potato falling from a airship, a MIB eating jelly due to *ahem* "stomach problems", a woman being possesed by a alien being and asking "what is your time cycle?", a couple teleporting from argentina to mexico, aliens nagging a man to tell people about secret quartz crystals that heal cancer, a entire chapter (!) about bizzare fake planes and helicopters sometimes seen chasing UFOs other times buzzing random military bases, meteorites not behaving the way meteorites should, suspicious chinese men and women wearing formal outfits coming out of UFOs, aliens trying to steal dogs for some ridiculous reason, MIB's wearing illuminaty pyramid pins
     
  4. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I found this blog post from Norio Hayakawa this morning, its from March 2018 but relevant I think showing what the skeptics think...

    Skeptics weigh in on the latest Navy UFO footage – – March 14, 2018

    ...
     
  5. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    as i have said before, i have a bad feeling about all this, maybe its just paranoia
    but why would the military suddenly do a open house after so much time of secrecy?
     
  6. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

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    We need to stop letting people like Hayakawa and Sheaffer hijack the word "skeptic," because what they're practicing is the inverse of skepticism. Skepticism is a very specific procedural discipline that only works in this way:

    1.) collect all of the pertinent data surrounding a subject of interest.
    2.) parse that data dispassionately and judiciously until the most credible data remains.
    3.) let that parsed data set speak for itself.
    4.) base your conclusions upon that, and revisit your conclusions as new credible data emerges.

    What these people are doing is practicing confirmation bias and cherry-picking. This is the awful procedure they're using, which is totally unscientific and 100% contrary to the practice of skepticism:

    1.) select the weakest data points surrounding the subject of interest.
    2.) attack that weak data out of context and with the utmost suspicion.
    3.) jump to the most cynical conclusions possible based on ignorance and personal bias.
    4.) present those conclusions to the public as scientific fact and defend it against all of the old and new data to the contrary.

    For example, they've been looking at the FLIR videos as stand alone data so they can ignore the larger context which includes: the most credible eyewitness testimony imaginable from Commander of the Black Aces and his co-pilot at the time, Cmdr. Slaight, and now the radar operators, etc.; the public statements by Sen. Harry Reid that confirm the origin and the nature of the AATIP, and; the widely understood nature of the classification system of our national security apparatus which restricts the public release of information deemed to be of high intelligence value (like the full optical video and close-up footage that has not and probably will not ever be released). And they try to justify this cherry-picking of the data by dismissing any and all value to verbal testimony, which is obviously crucial to understanding the events in question.

    They're not practicing scientific reasoning; they're practicing cynicism and then hiding behind a false model of scientific inquiry.

    I have no patience for such people, and I think that what they're doing represents a criminal disservice to the public understanding of these unfolding events.

    So rather than engaging in pointless arguments with them and the creepy psychopathology they represent, I choose to wait for additional data to emerge which will settle the matter definitely and conclusively as they're proven wrong step by step, kicking and screaming the whole way. Because I've noticed that time usually brings the truth to light in an undeniable manner. But people like this will keep denying everything until it's completely impossible for them to maintain any credibility whatsoever, and then they'll go on to deny other issues of interest and importance as the endless and dreary cycle repeats itself all over again.

    I remember dealing with this kind of rubbish with regard to the topic of ball lighting. These people were just as vociferous and intolerable about ball lightning, as they are about the AAV phenomenon today - they made blanket dismissals of all of the eyewitness accounts, discredited the trace evidence cases, called people stupid and unscientific for believing in it - it was the exact same BS circus sideshow that we're seeing right now. And just like they are now, they were all so smarmy about it, and falling over themselves to agree with each other to manufacture the illusion of a conclusive scientific consensus. But then plasma physics research evolved and indisputable proof of the ball lightning phenomenon came out, and instead of making apologies or suffering any repercussions for their failures regarding the subject, they just suddenly stopped talking about it and moved on to practice the exact same pathological cynicism about other subjects they don't understand, like the AAV phenomenon.

    Such people are an impediment to understanding, and are ultimately insignificant to the march of scientific history, so I prefer to ignore them, and rely upon my own logic and understanding to draw my own conclusions - a freedom they would rob you of just to satisfy their bloated sense of self-importance as they attempt to validate their own myopic worldview.

    The best thing we can do is reject their claims of skepticism because they're attempting to redefine it, and they're seriously harming the credibility of proper empirical reasoning in the process.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
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  7. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    the CSICOP crowd is even worse
     
  8. ImmortalLegend527

    ImmortalLegend527 The Messenger Of All Gods old and new

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    Very fasinating thread of a bunch of opinions.
     
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  9. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

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    A couple of exciting articles about the hunt for living exoplanets – first, an article about the method for determining the spectral signature of a planet so we can identify its class and suitability for life; once the James Webb telescope is making observations in a few years, this method will lurch our knowledge of exoplanets forward dramatically:

    These 'Light Fingerprints' Can Help Us to Identify Distant Alien Worlds

    And this article that sums up recent breakthroughs in understanding the formation of biological compounds in early planetary evolution, which helps us pinpoint the types of stars best suited for abiogenesis (the formation of life) and the ideal orbital distances of planets for the process to occur:

    Scientists Have Identified The Exoplanets Where Earth-Like Life Could Exist
     
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  10. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Those were great reads, finished the second one this morning and its subsequent links...Thanks for posting that!...

    ...
     
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  11. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Well that is good common sense not to fire upon them, first I seriously doubt any of our weapons would harm their ships and second I seriously doubt we could even hit one...We would probably just turn them away from visiting here, writing us off as an annoyance and move on...

    ...
     
  12. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

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    I'm not so sure about that. A laser may be an unavoidable weapon for any technology. Unlike projectile weapons, there's no way to see it coming until it hits you. And we don't know if these craft have any kind of deflection capabilities, and if they do, they may not be using them in our atmosphere. I assume that these smaller craft, which were seen in groups of 6-12 in the Nimitz case for example, originated from a larger craft in space because they were seen dropping down from above 80K feet for a week or two.

    People talk about "crash retrievals," as if these things just suddenly give up the ghost and plunge to the earth. I'm very, very dubious of that interpretation.

    Consider the big picture: the first places these craft really caught our attention, was flying over our most sensitive military research installations, like White Sands Missile Proving Ground. The military took this very seriously and set up scientific instrumentation to collect quality photographic and cinetheodolite footage of these airspace intrusions - Project Twinkle, iirc. They also outfitted interceptors with instruments to gather data in aerial pursuit operations. Does anyone seriously think that it stopped there? The next logical step is to to deploy countermeasures based on those findings, and shoot these things down when they buzzed our nuclear bases and research installations.

    I think they managed to down a few of these things.

    They certainly had every reason to try - any craft flying through restricted airspace and refusing to respond to radio contact would be considered a hostile adversary, so the military had an obligation to at least try to take them down. And the defense value of a craft that can make hairpin accelerations and operate silently with no emissions, demands much closer study and replication, if possible. The only way to do either is to get hold of one, even a badly damaged one, and put it under a microscope, so to speak.

    So the only real question, in my opinion, is "could we do it?" Well, the military has many of the brightest scientific minds in the world on staff, and access to pretty much any top mind in the world, and virtually limitless financial resources. I bet that I could've come up with some promising weapons to fire at these things - a high-energy electron beam weapon, for example - that's a basic technology that we had long before the 1940s. Maybe the military equipped some jets with such weapons, and got lucky. No technology is impervious to attack. Given the circumstances, and the aggression of the US military, I think the least likely scenario is that we didn't try to bring these things down when they dropped by to have a closer look at our most sensitive military installations. And I'm betting that at least a few times, they succeeded.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  13. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    is the US military that dumb that they were firing at a super advanced civilization just because it was intruding your space? that makes no sense
     
  14. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

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    You have a lot to learn about military protocol. Any object entering restricted airspace which doesn't respond to radio communication, is by default considered to be a hostile adversary. It's the military's duty to defend sensitive installations from any potential threat.

    You should listen to the interview with USS Nimitz CSG radar operator Kevin Day. They didn't attack the multiple objects that passed by them on a southerly trajectory for over a week, because the objects didn't intercept the carrier group. If they had approached them directly, and the objects didn't respond to radio contact, then they would've been forced to engage them and, if possible, bring them down before they could pose a threat to the group. The military protocol for engagement is universal - they don't need to determine if an object is a Russian or Chinese drone, a private plane, or something else; if it's on a course to enter restricted airspace and it doesn't respond to radio, then they have to assume that it's a threat, or they'd be jeopardizing the lives of our soldiers. Most commanders wouldn't take that risk; it's their job to defend their men.

    Now on top of that, you've also got the added incentive of gaining a potentially crushing military advantage over our geopolitical adversaries, by downing one of these things and figuring out how it works.

    So it makes perfect sense to try to down and capture one of these things when it flies into sensitive airspace. It's a terrible call from the standpoint of interstellar diplomacy, but it's a perfectly logical call from a military standpoint. Which is why I'm convinced that they've tried, and strongly suspect that they've succeeded. That makes a lot more sense to me as the origin of crash retrievals operations, than assuming that these craft just suddenly stopped working and rained down from the sky for no good reason.
     
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  15. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Yeah I wasn't thinking about lasers, they could surely hit a UFO but could it actually damage the craft or harm the occupants?...Lasers are light, could a laser beam be diffused or bent around the target with an appropriate defense using advanced technology?...

    I think if I were in their shoes, so to speak and these primitive humans fired essentially rocks and sticks at me I would not be in any rush to visit this world again, with countless planets and star systems in this galaxy alone, why bother with one planet with a bunch of aggressive mammals on it...

    I think it takes the government a very long time to figure out the technology if any is retrieved, especially back in the 50s and 60s and 70s, our technological understanding isn't what it is today, but even our tech today has a long way to go and is essentially primitive...

    I think so too, more than once they have successfully downed alien craft, not just the US but other countries too...

    Do you think our government has had any communication with alien lifeforms who fly these ships?...

    ...
     
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  16. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    including a "threat" wich firing into is basically suicide?
    but what if one of those things decide to fire back?
    the best case for ufo crashes, i have ever seen was done by a menber of the old AH forum called anton anfalov, he is a real ukranian UFO researcher that stopped by after seeing that his name was mentioned in a thread, the thing is, this guy really semmed to have insider knowledge, he somehow showed the home planet of each alien species visiting earth and all the real crash retrievals, but after a brief post in 2013 after his main posting stint in 2010/2011 i never saw him again
     
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  17. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Honorable

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    I should like to point that Col. Philip Corso told us that military can shoot down UFOs with powerful tracking radar beams. Radar installations, all the way till recently, consisted of two radars, search radar and tracking radar. Search radar is like a light bulb, very weak and omni-directional, while tracking radar is like torch, very strong and of very narrow beam.

    Regardless of various personal likes vs dislikes of Col. Crzo's character, the fact is that all other evidence about UFOs, together with understanding of our own physics, points out that UFOs create warp drives inside a thickness of their hull by pumping hull with electro-magnetic energy. That working mechanism of UFO propulsion would be susceptible to strong, focused beams of EM energy produced by tracking radars.

    Simply put, one points a strong EM beam of a tracking radar at a UFO. That produces uncontrollable electrical currents in the hull and UFO looses ability to micro-menage the energy patterns inside the metamaterial. UFO is out of control and falls down.

    So it is very likely, that at least, US military knows and has means of bringing down UFOs.

    As well, according to some prominent ufologists, like Dr. Mark Rodigher, the director of UFO research group he inherited from Dr. Alan Hynek, said that over the last 10 years there was a big change in a pattern of observations of UFOs. Namely, silvery metallic hulls of saucer shaped UFOs are now completely replaced by black triangles. One reason why, might be because silvery metallic hulls would be interacting very strongly with EM waves through EM induction, causing strong electrical currents in UFO's hull. Contrary to that, black triangles don't seem to be metallic and can't have these electrical currents induced. It is quite possible that black triangle UFOs are more immune to irradiation by strong tracking radar beams and thus more frequent recently.

    In short, aliens replaced silvery saucer shaped spacecraft with black triangles, because the former were too vulnerable to tracking radar EM beams.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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  18. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Honorable

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    Thomas, that is so easy to explain. The mening of average intelligence, which is around 100, is that 50% of people has IQ lower than average. I mean, that is the essence of the word's 'average' 50% is one side and 50% on other. For country like US, which has some 300+ million people, that is 150+ million of people with IQ bellow average. For UK, with 55 million, that is 27.5 million 'tupids. For China, with 1.5 billion, that is a staggering 750 millions 'tupidos. One simply has to wait for 'tupidos to catch up, and they are very slow to move. Take into account that IQ of 80 is bordering on idiocy and 70 is practically unemployable.

    I know for which US political party those lower 50% are woting. The long line of presidents they choose are regularly branded as dimwitted and usually can't tell a difference between Austria and Australia. In UK its a bit more complicated, both politics sides are really smart. Lets hope that China's lower 50% don't decide to kick start armagedon.
     
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  19. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Honorable

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    Recently it came to my attention that our galaxy, Milky Way, together with all the nearby galaxies together called Local Group are located on the very edge of one of the biggest intergalactic voids so far found in the universe. Void is called Local Void and it's really, really empty.

    Now, from before, I knew that Sun is located on the periphery of Milky Way. Now, it turns out Milky Way is itself on the periphery of a intergallactic void. To sum it up, we are on a periphery of a periphery. Somewhat, like having an address in inner Mongolia. Brothers and sisters, we are in a middle of nowhere.

    Taking into account how galaxies are distributed in universe, with Swiss cheese hierarchical density structure, being mostly concentrated in inter-galactic super-clusters, than in inter-galactic filaments and than in voids, we are most certainly outside of all inter-stellar and inter-galactic trading routes.

    But it's not just that our address is on a an forlorn address. When we look it through history of universe, we are probably very late arrivals. Most other Sun-like stars probably having intelligent life formed over 2.0 Billion years before us. Check this graph (from here):

    upload_2018-8-30_19-49-53.png
    That pale yellow dot is our Sun. Everybody else, with technological civilisation, is under that huge bulge. So we are not just isolated in space, we are isolated in time. Damn! According to that study and average Milky Way technologically developed civilization is 2.0 billion years ahead of us!!! No wander, we are sucking our toes, when it comes to Faster than Light travel.

    That might explain why aliens are not keen to meet with us on equal terms, and prefer to hold surgical knife at hand when socializing with us. In other words, we are worst than lumberjacks of this universe. Something like Africa during the slavory age.
     
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  20. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Honorable

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    That’s welcome news, thank you Rikki. I’m responding in this thread where we’ve been discussing these kinds of questions, so we can go into it as far as you like without pulling The Physical Science of Ufology thread too far off course.

    These are all good questions, but they require speculative responses because science can’t really answer them clearly – they’re outside the scope of the available empirical evidence, for the most part.

    Astrophysics is giving us a picture of our galaxy (which applies to other galaxies as well) where the conditions required for life are quite common – it now appears that there are billions of Earth-like planets orbiting in the Goldilocks Zones (not too warm, not to cold) of other Sun-like stars in our galaxy alone. And there are >100 billion galaxies in the observable universe, and the unobservable universe appears to be infinite based on some fairly recent measurements of cosmic geometry.

    And we’re finding that the vast majority of these potentially living worlds are at least 1-3 billion years older than the Earth. So if intelligent life arose on some of those planets and followed a similar evolutionary timeline, then any sentient life there would have at least a billion-year head-start on us. That’s more than enough time to devise the technology to rapidly traverse interstellar distances. In fact we already have a viable theory for how it could be done, but we don’t know how to build the technology.

    So it seems that the most reasonable conclusion to reach, based on these findings and the myriad sightings that have been reported around the world for at least 70 years (and probably throughout all of human history), it that we’re being visited by lots of various interstellar civilizations, for lots of different reasons.

    I take a fairly anthropocentric view of their behavior, because I think that sentient life everywhere will probably have a lot in common – curiosity, ambition, a sense of adventure, a sense of humor, etc.

    From that perspective we can turn the tables on your question: if we had the technology to freely traverse interstellar distances, what would we do? Well, a top priority would be “to seek out new life and new civilizations.” Because we’re doing that right now – looking for microbial life on Mars, and listening for signals with SETI, etc. Alien life is interesting – the most interesting thing out there. So if our scientists and adventurers could traverse space with ease, as these craft appear to be ideally suited for, then they’d be going around the galaxy to study the local flora and fauna, and perhaps taunt the primitive inhabitants of some of those worlds by flying circles around their crude aircraft and missiles, just for kicks, before moving on to the next sight-seeing and/or data collection destination.

    But some of them would probably be quite interested in our biosphere, which represents the most advanced technology on Earth. There’s a lot of useful information in the DNA and RNA and proteins and enzymes of plant and animal species – for a sufficiently advanced civilization, a new biosphere would offer all kinds of novel molecular mechanisms for medical and engineering applications. And for the anthropologists of other worlds, studying our culture and our wars and so forth, would at least be mildly interesting, or simply an additional data point for creating statistical models about the cultural evolution of primitive intelligent species like ours.

    Some species may have even decided to set up a secret base here for on-going studies, sample collection, and a million other possible motives many of which we could understand, and many which we definitely can’t understand yet because we’re not at their level of understanding and science yet.

    That was a long answer, but necessarily so, because it’s a complex question that requires a lot of context. But hopefully that all seems reasonable to you, because it’s how I’ve come to view this subject after decades of research and contemplation following my own sighting as a seven year-old boy.

    I think it’s useful to bear in mind that, given the data now available, we can presume a wide spectrum of civilizations out there, all at different levels of advancement. For those civilizations only hundreds or thousands of years ahead of us, we could be quite interesting. And for the very advanced civilizations that have explored the entire galaxy, we’d still be a useful data point to hone their statistical models, and prepare for dealing with us once we attain interstellar capabilities that could interfere with their own on-going projects throughout the galaxy. I don’t think that we’ve been chosen for any particular reason; I assume that all living worlds – and especially worlds with sentient life – would be of some modest level of interest to most other sentient species, no matter how advanced they are.

    Indeed. I think that many people overlook the fact that the human senses only perceive physical phenomena – so if you can see something with your eyes, it’s really there. And the wealth of radar-visual cases confirms that these craft are real, physical devices. Not supernatural in nature.

    That seems to describe most sightings very aptly – fleeting encounters as if they just dropped by for a few seconds and then moved on.

    That may be interesting to them as well – we’re a rapidly advancing civilization that’s extremely reckless and violent. They may want to collect a lot of data now so they can better understand the inevitable collapse of our global civilization, and perhaps teach their kids a cautionary tale about the perils of unchecked violence and greed. Sometimes I wonder if they’re here to write our obituary – their knowledge of the dynamics of global civilizations may inform them of our impending demise as a civilization, or perhaps even as a species. The data they’re collecting now may be the only thing left of our civilization in 100 years. And that might be valuable to their archaeologists.

    Those were great questions, and ones that most of us here contemplate often. Perhaps one day we’ll make contact with some of these visitors, or their sentient probes, and thereby get a deeper understanding of their motives, and the context of their interstellar civilization and others.

    Until that happens, the best we can do is to make educated guesses, as we’ve done here today.
     
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