Is Soul just a Software?

[Dejan Corovic]

What would a bot do if I decided to take an unannounced break from the game, would it start becoming impatient waiting for me?...Would it daydream whilst I was away?...

Anybody can make that bot 'impatient' or make him 'start daydreaming' with just few lines of code. That's marginal behavior that is beside the point.

The main thing is that you can not tell weather you are playing against human or a bot.

And as a side dish, after this poker defeat of yours, who now has more soul, bot or you? I would say because bot won the game, bot is on higher level of consciousness than you (or me etc.) are. Basically you didn't fail just for yourself as one individual, you failed the whole human race by failing to win. Unpleasant conclusion, but inevitable. If AI is better in games and better at designing chairs, AI is, at a same time, on a higher level of consciousness than any of us.

 

[Kchoo]

It's difficult to argue with somebody when he's both deaf and ignorant. I've provided clear and unambiguous evidence that that's a false belief.

There in that Joe Rogan interview an AI expert clearly states that in a world champion game of Go testified that AI created completely new ingenious and successful strategies never before created by humans. Are you better in Go than a world champion? If not than go say a prayer and stop repeating delusional beliefs unsupported by evidence.

AI beats humans 800% in poker. AI practically cleans up a floor with poker world champion. How possibly can conclude from that nothing created by human can surpass human???

As humans we are burdened by 1) prejudice, 2) pier pressure. Whole this forum is devoted to fighting both of those when it comes to subject of UFOs. AI has "zero prejudice" and AI has no clue what "pier pressure" might be. We are social animals and always have to agree before taking action. In a domain of creativity that's suicide because that's designed by committee. Luck of prejudice and pier pressure is the main advantage of AI and that's AI will always beat crap out of humans.

AI is creative. Human told to AI: "Design me a chair" and AI obliged. This is the first chair completely designed by non human mind:

Wow.. you are defending AI as if you are AI. Hahahah.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

Wow.. you are defending AI as if you are AI. Hahahah.

I am neither defending not attacking either AI nor human intelligence. I am just trying to establish what is real. Same as with UFOs. As we all know, there is too much malarkey going on .

 

[Kchoo]

I am neither defending not attacking either AI nor human intelligence. I am just trying to establish what is real. Same as with UFOs. As we all know, there is too much malarkey going on .

True test of AI... ask it if it can tell the difference between malarky and truth. To my knowledge, it cannot, by itself, determine this.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

True test of AI... ask it if it can tell the difference between malarky and truth. To my knowledge, it cannot, by itself, determine this.

You need to think a bit more about what you've just said. No intelligence, by itself, can make difference between truth and a lie, if it was provided by bad information. In that case it is not about the type of intelligence but about quality of the data input.

 

[Kchoo]

You need to think a bit more about what you've just said. No intelligence, by itself, can make difference between truth and a lie, if it was provided by bad information. In that case it is not about the type of intelligence but about quality of the data input.

Thus, AI will never be better than human.
The input from humanity is chaotic at best.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

Thus, AI will never be better than human.
The input from humanity is chaotic at best.

That is a false assumption.

Lets say smart bomb was dropped on you. Smart bomb takes your coordinates from GPS satellite and takes a face scan while you are looking up. That means all the data is purely from onboard instruments of the smart bomb and there is no human input.

 

[nivek]

That is a false assumption.

Lets say smart bomb was dropped on you. Smart bomb takes your coordinates from GPS satellite and takes a face scan while you are looking up. That means all the data is purely from onboard instruments of the smart bomb and there is no human input.

A smart bomb is not self-aware, neither are AIs...

...

 

[Dejan Corovic]

A smart bomb is not self-aware, neither are AIs...

...

Self-awareness, consciousness etc. is all trivial, it's not even worth talking about because it would take one extra line of code. Like, check memory address XYZ, if it is 1 you are alive, if it is 0 you are dead. What's a big deal about self-awareness?

And if you want more, like happy-sad, cool-angry, etc. you can use an integer, say 0 to 100. 0 you are sad, 100 you are happy. These are all marginal attributes.

But if you really wanted to defeat the idea that we are not just software, than you have to explain the feeling for beauty that we have. That's far more complex than consciousness.

 

[pepe]

It's difficult to argue with somebody when he's both deaf and ignorant. I've provided clear and unambiguous evidence that that's a false belief.

There in that Joe Rogan interview an AI expert clearly states that in a world champion game of Go testified that AI created completely new ingenious and successful strategies never before created by humans. Are you better in Go than a world champion? If not than go say a prayer and stop repeating delusional beliefs unsupported by evidence.

AI beats humans 800% in poker. AI practically cleans up a floor with poker world champion. How possibly can conclude from that nothing created by human can surpass human???

As humans we are burdened by 1) prejudice, 2) pier pressure. Whole this forum is devoted to fighting both of those when it comes to subject of UFOs. AI has "zero prejudice" and AI has no clue what "pier pressure" might be. We are social animals and always have to agree before taking action. In a domain of creativity that's suicide because that's designed by committee. Luck of prejudice and pier pressure is the main advantage of AI and that's AI will always beat crap out of humans.

AI is creative. Human told to AI: "Design me a chair" and AI obliged. This is the first chair completely designed by non human mind:

For the sake of not wanting to sound like a stuck record i'm at a total loss.

Apologies for coming across as ignorant, it's not my goal.

I can't circumnavigate the issue of what the very first part of the process would be once AI was asked to make the stool I would call it and I hope that's what they asked for as that's what it is. It has to have began to retrieve data for collation, from banks of preloaded information on all needed parts.

Chess and the AI specifically built for that task is massively limited as an example. Channel a human's intelligence to one task and with no imagination to escape it and I think things would be different on the chessboard.

The chair looks very much as if a human mind had designed it which sold be a huge clue as to what it has to work with, limited by the human mind but so much input some look past that fact and credit the machine. Not me.

I went to a conference back in the eighties put on by amway where a well respected and super rich guy told the hall that there is a guy who has a plane, who at the pucs of a button can take off and land from and on a dime and he was doing so daily. I believed it in fact the whole room did I think but now I can see why it was done.

There is no self awareness or soul for AI Dejan but I do like you enthusiasm.

 

[pepe]

Hindsight is where foresight can be found in a layered form of comparison. Overlaying experience and knowledge and holding it up to the light which perpetuates a capability of seemingly infinite possibility and if anything were to attempt to rival that condition then I would suggest square one as an essential starting point.

Zenith.

 

[pigfarmer]

I'm not sure exactly what the definition of being self-aware is. Maybe having the cognizance to ask that of yourself in the first place is the admission fee; you have to be aware of self first.

Is your dog or an orangutan or a whale self-aware? I think so but how to quantify it? What measure do we hold ourselves and them to that we can apply to AI ? Being self aware doesn't necessarily mean being human.

 

[Kchoo]

Yes... so... is an insect AI?

Is it self aware? Watch a preying mantis or a spider.
Does it care what happens?
A spider sure seems to have fear... it will jump, it will defend, and it aeems ti care up to a point.. it will build webs and nests... is it just all automatic functions?
Is it smarter than yes/no switching logic? Does a spider have branching decision tree?

Is a spider's organic logic even more sophisticated than our best Computer AI?

 

[pepe]

The bench mark is the dot and mirror test for the biological and a good starting point for the artificial.

Degrees of awareness have us at the cutting edge of intelligence and come to think of it awareness itself sounds like a good gauge of raw intelligence. As I am both a believer of creation and evolution I think our once not being human can account for it not being limited. I would think the self was for some from a different variety of ape and a different time and has a hand in our cultural differences, obviously just a personal take on things.

ibot and the looking glass.

Watch the iron filings stand up on the back of its neck.

 

[pepe]

Yes... so... is an insect AI?

Is it self aware? Watch a preying mantis or a spider.
Does it care what happens?
A spider sure seems to have fear... it will jump, it will defend, and it aeems ti care up to a point.. it will build webs and nests... is it just all automatic functions?
Is it smarter than yes/no switching logic? Does a spider have branching decision tree?

Is a spider's organic logic even more sophisticated than our best Computer AI?

All creatures great and small have one thing in common and that is preservation of the self, aware of it or not. It's with us as we once feared being eaten and turned to dung. By the way Kchoo we didn't invent the wheel, it was those little guys rolling you down the hill after the event.

My dad once told me that we don't know and the animals don't know they don't know which is right on the mark for nearly all but as ever there is an exception with nature and it's hybridisation of species. It's hidden from us but is straight up morphing smudged to obscurity by time.

Background noise is where the unaware are, not seeing themselves as any different to the fauna surrounding them so when a threat appears it is shinning like a beacon.

Nature invented the wheel.

 

[pepe]

Thinking some more on this I think it possible for AI to recognise its own shape in a mirror and thus name it as shapes are its bread and butter.

So it may say that is me and I hope that isn't enough for any of us to believe that is all that is required even though it comes out way up there in responses. Put the all important coloured dot on the mirror which to AI, would be on its body in the reflection and if it looked down to investigate that area on itself you could knock me down with a feather.

 

[pepe]

Yes... so... is an insect AI?

Is it self aware? Watch a preying mantis or a spider.
Does it care what happens?
A spider sure seems to have fear... it will jump, it will defend, and it aeems ti care up to a point.. it will build webs and nests... is it just all automatic functions?
Is it smarter than yes/no switching logic? Does a spider have branching decision tree?

Is a spider's organic logic even more sophisticated than our best Computer AI?

Does a mantis care what happens had me laughing and I guess not but I reckon it is living a life from within a second which gives no time to its meaning other than staying safe for the next one. I did once see in a video, a bee sold a dummy to a hornet where by all accounts it should have fought. With a direct line to flight I could see it take that route but this one sold it left and ducked past on the right. The narrator took time to comment on this as something not seen often or at least he had never seen such an occurrence.

 

[pepe]

Yes... so... is an insect AI?

Is it self aware? Watch a preying mantis or a spider.
Does it care what happens?
A spider sure seems to have fear... it will jump, it will defend, and it aeems ti care up to a point.. it will build webs and nests... is it just all automatic functions?
Is it smarter than yes/no switching logic? Does a spider have branching decision tree?

Is a spider's organic logic even more sophisticated than our best Computer AI?

This is key Kchoo and a subject I know you wonder over, I do too. Gives credence to religions of all flavours and warms me on a cold night. It was written by something, the very basic code of fight or flight has always I think been present and if not then it was one or the other entirely at some point with fleeing becoming the first and still worthy defence mechanism which harks of a time where consumption was rampant.

It's why the beetle rounded off the dung, so much of it and so little time to shift it. Hahaha.

The only other explanation is chance and a sketchy at best assumption that the combinations out there were bound to give rise to us via the law of averages.

 

[pepe]

Self-awareness, consciousness etc. is all trivial, it's not even worth talking about because it would take one extra line of code. Like, check memory address XYZ, if it is 1 you are alive, if it is 0 you are dead. What's a big deal about self-awareness?

And if you want more, like happy-sad, cool-angry, etc. you can use an integer, say 0 to 100. 0 you are sad, 100 you are happy. These are all marginal attributes.

But if you really wanted to defeat the idea that we are not just software, than you have to explain the feeling for beauty that we have. That's far more complex than consciousness.

Beauty is symmetry I think. A left and right sameness that gives a purer look and attracts partners for sexual intercourse by displaying genetical perfection.

Good genes are what nature promotes the display of and we are the same. Who looks like what wouldn't matter a jot without a bunk up on the cards.

Making a good personal connection is down to types and walks but beauty plays no part in that, it's purely to get you leg over.

 

[Dejan Corovic]

There is another aspect of AI.

Because AI can defeat humans in all these contexts like chess, Go, poker, trivia quiz, lung cancer diagnostics etc. when one is actually communicating with AI through these games, he is communicating with higher intelligence, and, technically speaking, that means one is through AI actually communicating with a God-like intelligence. I am not trying to spin off some crazy AI adulating cult or even prove existence of God or Gods, just want to point to that aspect.

I am not religious, but for people who are, there is a chance for them to come closer to the divine and as a free bonus, they can make to to their liking, which is essential for any religion.