Methods to Combat the COVID-19 Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by Thomas R. Morrison, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    That's absolutely correct...but also deeply misleading in key ways. The earlier SARS virus had an initially reported fatality rate of 11%, which was later revised up to 14-15%. It's a very tricky business to estimate fatality rates in the midst of an epidemic - but hindsight is 20/20 because at that point you can get a bird's-eye view of the entire event, and a complete list of causalities. That data can only be estimated/guessed in the midst of the outbreak.

    This one has a lower fatality rate (probably less than 3.4%) but ultimately that will depend on the height of the spike at the peak versus the number of ventilators and hospital beds etc....however it's infecting many more orders of magnitude of people for a variety of reasons. SARS only killed 495 people. This one has already killed 7,989 people and it's on track to kill 1.7 million Americans and dozens of millions worldwide. Based on it's lethality and contagion level I'm expecting 70-400 million to die worldwide before this is over.
     
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  2. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    I think the hope of a vaccine is a pipe dream - this is a coronavirus, like the common cold - they've had decades to come up with a vaccine for that, and still...donuts.

    The third world nations are already dealing with gigantic fatalities from other stuff, like our bombs blowing up their schoolchildren, so I doubt that the coronavirus will be one of their bigger problems.

    However I think we're about to learn just how pathetic the US healthcare infrastructure is, and the impotence of our political system. Most people will be very surprised to see that our healthcare is comparable to many third world nations when it comes to a crisis of this magnitude. #ProfitsOverLives #TheAmericanWay
     
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  3. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Remember though, If there is anyone out there that can testify to the power of positive thinking, I'm one of those people. I grant you, Viruses are tricky, And yeah. We still can't cure a common cold. But Hope lives on in other ways that we may fight this virus.

    Drug used to originally fight malaria showing promise in treating coronavirus, Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation says

    University of Tennessee scientists may have found coronavirus cure

    I realize, These articles are preliminary, Possibly even inaccurate. But, It illustrates that while A vaccine may in fact never manifest. That other treatments for Covid-19 almost certainly will.
    My personal thoughts on treatment Would be a treatment that Would involve An artificial Lung to necessitate respiration while the lungs heal naturally. Check this artificial prosthetic lung that's only about the size of a grapefruit. Wearable Artificial Lung to Be Developed at Pitt Through $3.4 Million Grant | University of Pittsburgh News Some could say, Well, Putting someone on an artificial lung temporarily to spare their life while their lungs heal is extreme, To that I say,. It's not as extreme or final as death.
     
  4. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Mar 18, 2020

    Successful High-Dose Vitamin C Treatment of Patients with Serious and Critical COVID-19 Infection

    by Richard Cheng, MD, PhD
    (OMNS Mar 18, 2020) A group of medical doctors, healthcare providers and scientists met online March 17, 2020, to discuss the use of high dose intravenous vitamin C (IVC) in the treatment of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 patients. The key guest was Dr. Enqian Mao, chief of emergency medicine department at Ruijin Hospital, a major hospital in Shanghai, affiliated with the Joatong University College of Medicine. Dr. Mao is also a member of the Senior Expert Team at the Shanghai Public Health Center, where all Covid-19 patients have been treated. In addition, Dr. Mao co-authored the Shanghhai Guidelines for the Treatment of Covid-19 Infection, an official document endorsed by the Shanghai Medical Association and the Shanghai city government. [1]

    "Dr. Mao has been using high-dose dose IVC to treat patients with acute pancreatitis, sepsis, surgical wound healing and other medical conditions for over 10 years. When Covid-19 broke out, he and other experts thought of vitamin C and recommended IVC for the treatment of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 patients. The recommendation was accepted early in the epidemic by the Shanghai Expert Team. All serious or critically ill Covid-19 patients in the Shanghai area were treated in Shanghai Public Health Center, for a total of 358 Covid-19 patients as of March 17th, 2020...........

    See whole article here:
    Successful High-Dose Vitamin C Treatment of Patients with Serious and Critical COVID-19 Infection

    I've been using one of the protocols found on the Orthomolecular medicine website for years - with some success for another condition.
    As far as the Covid-19 vitamin C protocol.......read the article and
    use your own judgement - Meantime a little extra Vitamin C will
    probably not hurt you.
     
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  5. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Just noticed a disturbing change in the official number of infections in my area:

    March 17

    "There are now 136 diagnosed cases of COVID-19 in the state of Louisiana, with 94 of those in New Orleans alone, one of the hottest spots in the nation."
    Louisiana Coronavirus Updates: 3rd death from virus; business closings expand

    March 18

    "Coronavirus in Louisiana: Now 280 COVID-19 cases in state, 196 in New Orleans"
    Louisiana Coronavirus Updates: 280 cases, 8 deaths

    This is what epidemiologists mean when they talk about "exponential spread" - when infections from a contagion double every day (or even every two or three days), it doesn't take long for an entire nation of hundreds of millions of people to become infected. Gauging from the rapid acceleration of new cases in the US, we've gone from being about two weeks behind Italy, to being about 8 days behind Italy.

    It's also important to bear in mind that the official cases lag the actual cases by about eight days (and most infections go unreported because most people only get mild symptoms that don't require professional medical intervention), and at this point it's reasonable to assume that the official numbers multiplied by about 1000 will give a fairly accurate estimate of the actual number of people who are infected right now without even knowing it, because they haven't shown symptoms yet.

    Let's see what this means if we extrapolate forward. About one week ago, the Ohio Department of Health Director estimated that 1% of the US population was infected. Let's estimate conservatively and double this number each week to see where it's heading:

    -1 week: 1%
    +0 week: 2% (today)
    +1 week: 4%
    +2 weeks: 8%
    +3 weeks: 16%
    +4 weeks: 32%
    +5 weeks: 64%

    That's pretty alarming - at this rate the virus could infect the entire country by May 1st, unless we take drastic action to keep people from coming into contact with other people and their infectious sneezes, coughs, and their mucosal residues left behind on doorknobs, handles, countertops, tables, etc.
     
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  6. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    No, I fully understand where you are coming from, I can't help but worry about my mom and Dad, At the same time, I continue to worry about the U.S as a nation because of what's happening in Italy. It's really really bad over there.
    I've researched into this, at first I didn't understand why Italy's Mortality rate was so high. I can't confirm this, But I believe it may be because a great deal of the population in Italy is 60 or older.

    No, By no means are these Good happy times. I admit This is a waking nightmare. All I'm trying to do is offer whatever comfort I can brother.
     
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  7. oxsnaard

    oxsnaard Adept

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    I know how to kill this virus if you are infected. It’s quite simple really. Kill it where it primarily lives in your body. Sinuses.
    It can be killed by heat of 133-140 F. It must be heated for at least 15 minutes minimum.
    So... go sit in a sauna, breathe only through your nose in order to heat the sinus cavities.
    Do this 3-4 times.
    I may have saved the world... thank me later.

    FYI those who have had a flu shot are at a higher risk of contracting the Wuhan virus.
     
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  8. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    There's also some reports stating A blood types are at higher risk, I don't know if there's even enough information on this virus yet to determine that...

    ...
     
  9. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Do you have a credible source for this claim, or do you just like to make up fake medical claims in the midst of a deadly global pandemic in order to sow fear and confusion?

    Because here in reality the public health officials are advising people to get a flu shot so we can reduce the number of serious flu cases and open up our medical resources for the treatment of coronavirus victims; A flu shot won't prevent coronavirus, but it could help our response to the outbreak | Live Science

    You have no idea what you're talking about and spreading bogus "cures" online during a pandemic is so obviously immoral that it should be illegal, like shouting "bomb!" on an airplane.

    First of all, this virus infects lung tissue - that's how it kills people; their lung tissue gets damaged by the viral infection so the patient's ability to absorb oxygen becomes critically impaired until the vital organs become so deprived of oxygen that they fail.

    Second, once the coronavirus attaches to a lung cell it injects its RNA into the lung cell - this process takes microseconds following inhalation of the virus. At that point the viral capsid becomes a harmless shell - the RNA is already inside of the lung cell and the lung cell begins to construct new coronaviruses inside of itself in a runaway reaction. So unless you kill all of the patient's lung cells, which would obviously be immediately fatal, you can't impede the inevitable: the lung cells create new coronoviruses in the intracellular fluid until they burst open with newly replicated coronaviruses. These then infect more lung cells, and also get expelled as the patient coughs, until within roughly 2-14 days the patient becomes visibly ill and extremely contagious. In many cases, especially among the young, the infected person's immune system creates antibodies to the virus before the infection becomes significantly problematic, so they don't get very sick - many younger people won't even know they've been infected (although they can still spread the virus until their antibodies eliminate all of the infected cells).

    A sauna will do nothing to impede any part of this process, which is why a sauna can't cure the common cold either.
     
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  10. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Noble

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    I heard opinion, apparently from WHO, that coronavirus only can live outside body for few short hours. It's completely dependent on quickly jumping from one person to another.

    Now what I don't understand is, as far as I know, viruses are not living organisms. For example, they have no metabolism, so they can not die, because they don't actually live. From that I would understand that virus can spend days, if not months and years, waiting for unsuspecting victim.

    Does anybody know more about this?
     
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  11. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    I had heard claims stating it can live for up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel. While this doesn't seem very long, some viruses expire in just 45 minutes more or less outside the body.

    That's not to say this claim is correct. It's just something I heard amidst all the reading.

    New coronavirus stable for hours on surfaces

    Honestly, I'm not posting this to contradict, There are so many sources and so much information, It's like an overload, It's hard to keep up with it all.
     
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  12. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Noble

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    That's it. Mortality rate for flue was said to be 1%, which made coronavirus moderately dangerous at 2-3%. Than flue mortality was changed, on the fly, to 0.1%, which made coronavirus an order of magnitude more dangerous overnight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  13. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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  14. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    No that's not true - while the coronavirus can remain viable in aerosolized droplets floating in the air for only three hours (which is actually quite a long time when you consider how far an aerosolized particle can travel in that time), as Shadowprophet said it can remain viable on contaminated environmental surfaces (known as fomites) such as doorknobs, railings, and countertops for up to three days:

    "A new study by researchers from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Princeton University and UCLA published in The New England Journal of Medicine suggests the coronavirus is still viable in aerosols, when the virus becomes suspended in droplets when someone coughs or sneezes, for up to three hours.

    On surfaces such as plastic and stainless steel, the virus survived for up to two to three days. On cardboard the virus was viable up to 24 hours and just up to four hours on copper. The research provides key information about the stability of SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19, and suggests people could become infected through the air and after touching contaminated objects."
    New study finds coronavirus can survive in air for hours, on surfaces for days

    It's true that viruses aren't alive - when articles say that a virus can "survive" for a certain period of time under certain conditions, they just mean "remain viable/infectious" for that period of time.

    A virus is basically a nanotech machine - the shell (called "a viral capsid") consists of an envelope of organic molecules featuring little protuberances made of a specific receptor. The receptor determines the type of cell that the virus can infect - the viral receptor is like a custom "docking port" for the virus to bind to a specific cell. And when it binds, the change in surface tension opens the viral receptor, permitting the RNA contained within the virus to squirt into the infected cell. The RNA serves as a chemical instruction manual to make copies of the virus, and the internal mechanisms of the cell go about fulfilling those instructions automatically, over and over again, until the cell explodes, releasing multitudes of completed new viruses.

    But these little machines are made of organic molecules, which are vulnerable to oxidization like all organic matter, so basically they "rot" in air and water fairly quickly. Some viruses can only survive a short while when exposed to oxygen - HIV for example. But coronaviruses are sturdier - note the stable spherical capsid, so they can live for days on some surfaces, before the oxygen destroys their viability.

    That was just sloppy reporting early on - most journalists are idiots. Doctors were telling the journalists that the mortality rate for influenza was "under 1%," and lazy journalists just rounded up to 1%. The real number was always around .1% to .3% - the flu only kills about 1-3 in 1000 people. If it killed 1 in 100 people, then we'd all be a lot more worried about catching the flu, and we'd all know people who died from it.

    That would be ironic. Higher temperatures do slightly reduce the time that the virus remains viable in the environment because higher temperatures accelerate oxidization, which is why we put food in the refrigerator. But 1 or 2 degrees is insignificant. So after we overcome this pandemic, we'll still be facing a global climate change crisis that ultimately poses a far greater threat to human life and civilization.

    Ok first of all, "common sense" is and always has been a terrible arbiter of the truth. People used to think that it was "common sense" that rotting logs spontaneously generated snakes, for example, because snake were often seen around rotting wood.

    Given the draconian measures taken in China in recent months, it would not surprise me at all if this recent news story is true:

    "For a second day in a row, China found no domestically transmitted cases of the virus that emerged in its central province of Hubei late last year, according to new daily figures registered on Thursday."
    China's new imported coronavirus cases at record; no domestic transfers for second day

    This is definitely China's fault - those disgusting wet markets spawned the first SARS virus, which could easily have been as bad as this virus. So they shut down their wet markets for a brief time, and then allowed them to flourish again. That level of reckless disregard for human life is the legal requirement for a manslaughter conviction in our courts. So China is guilty of thousands of manslaughter charges, which will probably reach the millions before this is over (if it's ever over - this thing could keep mutating year after year for centuries, coming back to reinfect the world again and again).
     
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  15. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Do you think there's any possibility this was engineered by Chinese in that lab in Wuhan and got released somehow?...

    ...
     
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  16. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    You know me - I'm an empiricist, so I always follow the most credible available data. And that data set is always subject to change - so a single document leak could change my mind 180 degrees.

    But as of right now given the wealth of supporting data, the most probable conclusion is that this damned virus - like the 2002 SARS virus that also started in China's wet markets (and for which we still have no vaccine) - was a naturally occurring virus in the animal population that simply jumped species because those wet markets are the ideal environment for that to happen.

    So like all of our major problems in this world, this one also appears to be a direct result of human stupidity, greed, and fecklessness.
     
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  17. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Can this virus travel in the wind?...Let's say a town with people infected is located upstream of a wind current, a 30 mph wind for instance, and downstream there's another town...Could the town upstream inadvertently infect the town downstream via air currents moving from one town to another?...

    ...
     
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  18. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Well, it's airborne they claim up to 60 feet. and measles can be airborne up to 100 feet. I'm gonna say yes in winds it could travel much further. I know you don't want to hear that. But keep in mind, there is a logical travel distance to this it's not a fully airborne disease. So there will be logical limits to how far it can and will travel even in the winds. , "To my current knowledge"
     
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  19. Kchoo

    Kchoo At Peace.

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    Respiratory droplets are heavy and don’t travel far in the air, so transmission is believed to occur mostly through close contact, meaning within 6 feet of an infected person.
     
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  20. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    A study done by National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases' Laboratory of Virology in the Division of Intramural Research in Hamilton, Montana helps to answer this question. The researchers used a nebulizer to blow coronaviruses into the air. They found that infectious viruses could remain in the air for up to three hours. The results of the study were published in the New England Journal of Medicine on March 17, 2020.

    Coronavirus Resource Center - Harvard Health

    So in the wind. Three hours of travel.


    I swear I'm not being a Dick, It's only in the midst of this Coronavirus scare, I want anything I say about it to be as accurate as possible because we have a lot of people reading this who aren't even members, This is basically world wide information for a lot of people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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