Murder of Washington Post Journalist Jamal Khashoggi

AD1184

Celestial
I have not seen any discussion about this story on this forum. Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi dissident journalist residing in self-imposed exile in the US, and writing for the Washington Post, was visiting Turkey with his fiancée when he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to obtain a document in order to get married. He did not come out again. He is officially missing, but Turkish authorities believe that he was murdered and dismembered in the building, and the Saudis cannot prove that he left the building alive, as they claim.

Jamal Khashoggi - Wikipedia

https://www.google.com/search?q=Jamal+Khashoggi&tbm=nws

The Saudis have received some diplomatic backlash over this, but notice that it is not the equivalent of what, say, Russia would receive if they had acted similarly (such as over the Skripal poisoning in Britain earlier this year), but is instead much watered down. Our leaders are demanding more information before acting, but notice they did not wait for more information in acting against Russia, whose guilt was assumed from the outset (I believe that Russia was guilty, but there were no concerns about reacting with too much haste back then, simply because of whom the likely culprit was).
 

Sheltie

good to the last drop
Sorry AD1184, you'll have to find a way to implicate Gene Steinberg if you want to get responses to your post. :bhow:
 

nivek

As Above So Below
I've read some on this incident but not enough to be informed, were there any traces of his body?...I wonder what makes them think he was dismembered?...

...
 

pepe

Celestial
One reason is that the truth doesn't come easy in the Middle East. Not saying this didn't happen but when dealing with Arabic countries, the truth is rarely the first thing on their minds. It's a cultural trait, so treading carefully is how we have learnt to react to claims from this region.
 

AD1184

Celestial
I've read some on this incident but not enough to be informed, were there any traces of his body?...I wonder what makes them think he was dismembered?...

...
The Turks have not released the information that makes them think this.
 

AD1184

Celestial
One reason is that the truth doesn't come easy in the Middle East.
That is not the reason. Despite the difficulties inherent in proving such a thing, the US and allies were quick to proclaim the Syrian government the culprit in alleged chemical weapons attacks in war-torn Syria at various times over the past five years and have responded militarily as a result.

Both the quickness to judge in the case of Syrian chemical attacks, and the hesitance to judge in the case of Khashoggi's disappearance (or murder) do have the same cause: western governments are in thrall to Saudi Arabia. Our aims in the Syrian conflict are Saudi Arabian aims, and we advocate strenuously to enact Saudi policy throughout the region. Thus we condemn Assad for his civil war while we turn a blind eye to the brutal Saudi war in neighbouring Yemen.

Interestingly, one area of US policy where the maverick Donald Trump seems very keen to maintain the status quo is in relations with Saudi Arabia.
 

AD1184

Celestial
I've read some on this incident but not enough to be informed, were there any traces of his body?...I wonder what makes them think he was dismembered?...
The Turks have not released the information that makes them think this.
There is speculation that the Turks know these things because they have electronic surveillance within the Saudi Arabian consulate itself (and by extension, likely in other foreign diplomatic buildings in their country). Hence the bogus story about Khashoggi recording his own murder and it being uploaded to SoundCloud, when instead the Turkish government recorded it from within the building. If so, I believe this is in violation of international treaties and would kick-off a diplomatic incident of its own. So this could be why the Turks are being cagey with their evidence.
 

pepe

Celestial
That is not the reason. Despite the difficulties inherent in proving such a thing, the US and allies were quick to proclaim the Syrian government the culprit in alleged chemical weapons attacks in war-torn Syria at various times over the past five years and have responded militarily as a result.

Both the quickness to judge in the case of Syrian chemical attacks, and the hesitance to judge in the case of Khashoggi's disappearance (or murder) do have the same cause: western governments are in thrall to Saudi Arabia. Our aims in the Syrian conflict are Saudi Arabian aims, and we advocate strenuously to enact Saudi policy throughout the region. Thus we condemn Assad for his civil war while we turn a blind eye to the brutal Saudi war in neighbouring Yemen.

Interestingly, one area of US policy where the maverick Donald Trump seems very keen to maintain the status quo is in relations with Saudi Arabia.

The use of chemicals being the difference. Goes against the very fiber and tops the charts or do you see that as diversionary tactics to achieve a hidden agenda of riches.

If the SaudI government were seen to be using chemicals in Yemen, would the blind eye suddenly see ?

The Don has openly said he wants to deal with the Saudis because of the financial loss his nation would incur if he was to cease trading, think he equated the loss to fifty thousand jobs.

Difficult and seen as wrong to brand a creed as more dishonest than another but I stick to my guns and say again. The truth coming from an Arab nation is a rare event.

Coming to aid in a war where, for the two warring sides, it is actually possible for one side to claim to be the other in order to evade the truth and to carry this lie for as long as we have seen, should be an example as to how much truth is to be found.
 
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Kchoo

At Peace.
The Don has openly said he wants to deal with the Saudis because of the financial loss his nation would incur if he was to cease trading, think he equated the loss to fifty thousand jobs.

.

Deal is the key word. Not destroy, not go to war, not mine is bigger than yours, but, hey,,, I need you, you need me... let’s stop being dicks and figure out what works... Business, not war... Makes sense to me.

Business is the universal language today...
 

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
That is not the reason. Despite the difficulties inherent in proving such a thing, the US and allies were quick to proclaim the Syrian government the culprit in alleged chemical weapons attacks in war-torn Syria at various times over the past five years and have responded militarily as a result.

Both the quickness to judge in the case of Syrian chemical attacks, and the hesitance to judge in the case of Khashoggi's disappearance (or murder) do have the same cause: western governments are in thrall to Saudi Arabia. Our aims in the Syrian conflict are Saudi Arabian aims, and we advocate strenuously to enact Saudi policy throughout the region. Thus we condemn Assad for his civil war while we turn a blind eye to the brutal Saudi war in neighbouring Yemen.

Interestingly, one area of US policy where the maverick Donald Trump seems very keen to maintain the status quo is in relations with Saudi Arabia.

I think most administrations want to keep relations with Saudi Arabia stable. When they give oil production a light squeeze the world economy feels it
 

AD1184

Celestial
I understand perfectly why we all must deal with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have us all over a barrel, because we need their money and their oil so much. But be under no illusion that it is a principled alliance, or that the selective outrage our leaders show towards other nations who do the equivalent of what Saudi Arabia does is principled. It is not. It is rank hypocrisy. It ought to make our leaders a little more meek when it comes to noisily pronouncing judgement on other nations or even intervening militarily in them, because we do not like the way that they are governed. If we collectively came to this realization, then I think the world would benefit.
 

pepe

Celestial
Deal is the key word. Not destroy, not go to war, not mine is bigger than yours, but, hey,,, I need you, you need me... let’s stop being dicks and figure out what works... Business, not war... Makes sense to me.

Business is the universal language today...

Our intentions as a hemisphere is not to destroy or plunder but to eradicate the ideology of genocide as being an OK tool in the box. The opposing argument to big business being some kind of secret goal.

I lean toward the use of chemicals as being our true intent. My guess is once there was a council among our primitive ancestors where fire was used against the innocent. A reaction against a code and the swiftest of justice would have taken place.

What you write Kchoo is what we are fighting for.
 

Kchoo

At Peace.
Our intentions as a hemisphere is not to destroy or plunder but to eradicate the ideology of genocide as being an OK tool in the box. The opposing argument to big business being some kind of secret goal.

I lean toward the use of chemicals as being our true intent. My guess is once there was a council among our primitive ancestors where fire was used against the innocent. A reaction against a code and the swiftest of justice would have taken place.

What you write Kchoo is what we are fighting for.
And the only realistic conclusion...
 

AD1184

Celestial
The use of chemicals being the difference. Goes against the very fiber and tops the charts or do you see that as diversionary tactics to achieve a hidden agenda of riches.
The chemicals used, and by whom, are both only alleged. Why does the severity of the alleged crime make action imperative, when the difficulty in establishing the truth is so difficult? One person accused of theft and another of murder both go to trial. We do not skip the trial stage and go straight to an execution in the case of an alleged murderer because we consider murder more severe than theft.
 

Kchoo

At Peace.
If a leader used gas to kill, why would he be such a coward to deny it? I am not sure he would use it. In the long run he stands to lose much more than he gains by making enemies of the world..
 

pepe

Celestial
The chemicals used, and by whom, are both only alleged. Why does the severity of the alleged crime make action imperative, when the difficulty in establishing the truth is so difficult? One person accused of theft and another of murder both go to trial. We do not skip the trial stage and go straight to an execution in the case of an alleged murderer because we consider murder more severe than theft.

As the truth will never be known I will hazard a guess that Hussain gassed the Curds and Long neck did his own.
No skipping in those examples necessary as they are none genocidal. But yeah if you are asking me, if it's stone cold and he deserves to meet his maker, then do it already.

You know as well as I, that honesty carries certain weight more so in certain countries.
 

bill.zen

I want to believe
I’ve been very skeptical of the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime in Syria for a long time. I’m not one to start beating my chest about “false flag” attacks, but my mistrust of government and media tends to pull me in the direction of doubt.

History has documented plenty of cases of government coverup, corruption, and lies. I don’t believe we can take their word at face value. And that applies to the case of the Saudis killing this journalist, time will tell what the truth is.
 
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