Navy Officially Releases 3 UFO Videos

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by wwkirk, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    Thanks to a FOIA request by The Black Vault, the US Navy has made the release of 3 UFO videos official. It's new that the release is official, though the videos themselves may be familiar.

    Here's the link to the videos and some other documents.
    Documents | NAVAIR - FOIA
     
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  2. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    Thanks for clarifying that...

    Only took 2,5 years.
     
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  3. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    Mick West still thinks those videos depict common planes and a balloon or a bird. Go Fast is the least intresting and i think his explanation and math there fits. But those other two, stretching. Especially without any other data or looking at what the witnesses, who were actually there said (but they dont matter, since theyre always mistaken, right).
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  4. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    I just told him on facebook that pitching hypothetical explanations for the video clips, and ignoring all of the credible eyewitness testimony and the results of the associated DoD investigations, is an egregious example of cherry-picking the data.

    That's the difference between being a debunker and being a true skeptic - a skeptic doesn't have the luxury of ignoring all the data that doesn't fit with a prosaic explanation. Debunkers are just another type of fanatic, imo.
     
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  5. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    Problem of course is that besides the witness testimonies and these videos, all the other data still remains largely out of our hands. So we dont know what it shows, we can only listen to what Elizondo and the others say and try to trust them... for now.
     
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  6. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    It is frustrating that we don't get to see all of the relevant data, like the radar tracks, though it is compelling that so many of the witness accounts agree on the key points. But that's why they classify information in the first place; to keep us in the dark. I would argue that the fact that the radar data and the full-length footage is being withheld, argues in favor of that data possessing significant intelligence value. Because if the radar data provided any kind of prosaic explanation, then there would be no reason to keep it classified, and these events would not still be categorized as Unknowns by the DoD.
     
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  7. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    Did you guys see the one at exactly two minutes in? It turns and when it does It looks exactly like a classically described UFO. That was awesome

     
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  8. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    We don't really know the shape of the object because all we can see is the heat signature, and that often creates false shapes in FLIR videos. But it does look cool =) The debunker argument is that we're seeing the merged heat signatures of a twin-engine jet receding from the camera, and the rotations are just the jet banking. But A.) no Top Gun fighter pilot is going to mistake the rear view of an ordinary jet plane for an Unknown target, and B.) those rotations are weirdly fast and precise - nothing like the slow organic roll of a jet banking; especially that last, sudden, freaky rotation that it makes. Besides, if experienced pilots thought that the "receding jet" hypothesis were viable, then we'd be hearing it from them...not an arm-chair debunker with no flight experience.
     
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  9. Shadowprophet

    Shadowprophet Truthiness

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    The way I see this, This was from 2004 originally, Even if it's not aliens, even if it's the worst-case scenario and it's just Chinese drones or something Those are still some very advanced seeming aircraft, So this is potentially exciting no matter what the real object truly was
     
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  10. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    I think Mick tried to explain that the object itself is not rotating in the Gimbal video, but the ATFLIR is causing it. Heres the video, if youre intrested.



    And yes if these videos were just by themselves without context, theyre not that impressive. But they arent. Theyve been now revealed as showing real unindentified phenomena, with multiple witnesses and other data. We cant simply throw the other things around them away and call them solved.

    So what did they witness in the east or west coasts? UAP or just your regular planes, or seagulls, or balloons like Mick says? Only way to make sense of it in Micks way is to claim that either a huge mess of errors, glitches and baffling incompetence happened all at once in two cases and in their aftermaths(or as Skeptic Magazine snidely put it " a comedy of errors"), or that theres a conspiracy going on and all these pilots and other people have been coerced into it and are lying for whatever reason.

    What we need is real Flir experts or people very familiar with them looking at these videos. Theres one guy already called Dave Falch and he has said these videos and the objects they depict are strange.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
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  11. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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  12. 1963

    1963 Honorable

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    Yep! … Keith Basterfield is a sceptic, and James Oberg is a debunker. … guess which one I admire and respect, and which one I used to constantly deride on other sites until I realised it was like flogging a dead horse? :Whistle:

    Cheers Buddy.
     
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  13. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    I have two major problems with his attempt to explain this footage:

    1.) Neither the jet nor the target are making any dramatic course changes that we can observe or infer, so by Mick's own reasoning (and the wooden sticks that he used to demonstrate his point), the heat signature should appear to rotate smoothly and continuously as the camera tracks the object. But it doesn't: we see zero rotation as the ATFLIR pod tracks the object during the first half of the footage. Instead, it's steady as a rock and then suddenly rotates and stops, and then rotates and stops, in weird quick bursts. He doesn't even attempt to try to explain that, and yet that's exactly what makes the footage so interesting.



    2.) If the mirror arrangement inside the ATFLIR pod routinely produced these kinds of weird, sudden rotations in the IR glare, then the pilot would be familiar with that, and he wouldn't exclaim: "Look at that thing - it's rotating!" Mick West seems to think that the pilot of a $70M weapons platform had never seen an image through his $3M ATFLIR pod before, and received no training in its operation before firing up his attack jet one fine day, and therefore he had no idea that it makes everything appear to rotate in freaky little bursts that look exactly like an object suddenly rotating in the sky. But certainly those pilots know those systems far better than Mick West does, and are far more qualified to know what they're looking at when they observe targets through that system. And again - if Black Aces fighter pilots saw that footage and the uproar it's caused, then why aren't they speaking out to tell people that the Gimbal video is just an instrumentation artifact? I posit a simple explanation for that: it isn't.

    Also, hearing Mick West suggest that the title of the video supports his hypothesis - that the Gimbal video was named "Gimbal" because it's an artifact of a gimbal inside of the cutting-edge $3M Raytheon AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR targeting pod, is a flagrant example of confirmation bias at work. It's far more likely that the video is called "Gimbal" because the goddamn object appears to rotate around a single axis....just like a gimbal. He doesn't even mention that this explanation for the name is at least as logical as his own.

    It's funny you should say that - I reached the same conclusion last year after debating with Robert Schaeffer and KKKorff and Mick West in facebook groups last year. The first two cowered from an honest debate every time, and Mick West would keep moving the goal posts while refusing to entertain the possibility that any of his interpretations might be incorrect. So really these people have no interest in an honest debate; they only participate in order to preach the gospel of disbelief, like the atheistic equivalent of a Jehovah's Witness who comes to your door to infect your mind with a banal delusion.

    So I've been ignoring them, and enjoying much more productive conversations with people who are honestly looking for answers. But every once in awhile one of my friends on facebook gets annoyed with a patronizing post from one of the pseudoskeptics, and writes to ask me to respond to it. Apparently some of my friends agree with my logic regarding these topics, and they get a kick out of my "take no prisoners" debunking of the debunkers. It would seem discourteous to refuse such a request. And besides, it's a fun way to blow off some steam =)
     
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  14. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    And if someone likes to watch, heres Mick again explaining why hes right and everyone else who were there when it happened is wrong, of course.

     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  15. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    Heres a paranoid, cynical and conspiracy minded side of me again thinking:

    Im still thinking if these are genuine videos of UFOs as they appear, why are they releasing them now, when theyve denied it for over 70 years?

    In the background, what has changed? What has forced this?

    Or is it all just some well made trap laid out for us, with bait and switch?

    I mean think of what would happen if the Nimitz and Roosevelt incidents were completely and utterly debunked, with good data. It would not only destroy all that has been achieved in these past years but pretty much cast a huge doubt on any of the past cases, especially in public realm("if this was fake, they probably all are"). I wonder sometimes is this the purpose, intentionally create a seemingly solid case you can destroy later in the public and bring lot of the standing pillars(good cases) of Ufology into question.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  16. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    Watch very carefully the things that are released during this time of tragedy. We are creatures of limited capacity and we are all up to here with nineteen. Yes why now indeed but if you like to conspire then why would it be any other time than now.
     
  17. Rikki

    Rikki High Priestess

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    I hate to ask and my husband is unsure but what is the chance what is seen in those videos are drones or man made?
    Blessed be
    Rikki
     
  18. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Noble

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    You don't need any expert here since this is high school geometry.

    The presenter made an honest effort in describing how gimbal rotation works, but at 5:26 presenter becomes amazingly one-dimensional and ignorant. At about that point, UFO rotates relative to the clearly visible pattern of clouds, and rotation of the UFO has ABSOLUTELY nothing with rotation of the gimbal. One can rotate gimbal anyway he wants, but the relative orientation of the distant object will always stay constant relative to even more distant objects in the sky background.

    If that's not enough, take into account that our own heads are mounted on a kind of a gimbal, and try leaning it to one side and see if that will change visual relationships between very distant objects.

    Of course it will not.
     
  19. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    Well, if we take the witness testimonies and the investigations to these events by AATIP at their word(theres no public access to raw data, yet, aside from these short video clips), the tech and capabilities these things seem to possess do seem quite unlikely to be man made, unless theres a secret group somewhere that has discovered the Holy Grail of engineering and physics.

    So i would still put my 4 possible explanations on these:

    1. Its some sort of secret US/other country tech test.

    2. Its some sort of psy op, witnesses have been coersed and are lying. Can be linked to explanation 1 too, perhaps.

    3. The CSICOP explanation, the witnesses are all mistaken, radar data is all faulty, videos show mundane objects etc. the usual thing.

    4. Its an extraterrestrial craft of somekind.

    I dont know what it is, but recently having read twitter comments and a few articles, it seems people like Mick West, Michael Shermer, Phil Plait etc lean toward 3, unsurprisingly. Of course none of those people were actually there, and only one of them has taken a longer, rather selective look into the data or talked to any witnesses, that being Mr West. And even Mick says he doesnt really know for sure what it is, tough he leans towards the simple answers. So the fight for the truth in this goes on.

    One thing for sure is, you need to ask questions and you need to scrutinize, otherwise we will never get to the bottom of this.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  20. Dejan Corovic

    Dejan Corovic Noble

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    That question is much more difficult to answer, than rotation of the UFO. But there is another thread on AE where geometry of the situation was discussed in a very fine detail and where speed of the object was calculated to be much higher than what drones can do. But, that requires diving deep into details.
     

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