Caeldeth
Noble
And that's the fake news. Even bill said it was complete and total bullshit. Bill just didn't want him on the sidelines.
Patriots fans burn team jerseys after players take a knee during National Anthem
And that's the fake news. Even bill said it was complete and total bullshit. Bill just didn't want him on the sidelines.
nivek
As Above So Below
It's about time the NFL does something about this travesty, they are losing money and fans...They need to do more, fine the players who kneel and suspension after the third offense...
NFL considers 15-yard penalty for anthem kneelers, report says
NFL considers 15-yard penalty for anthem kneelers, report says
Gambeir
Celestial
If the NFL is considering slapping a penalty on the kneelers it's because they are losing money. Otherwise they wouldn't give a rats rear. The retarded thing about it is that the management (NFL) must be oblivious about how to deal with this issue, which is retarded because of all people they are some of the one's least lacking in funds to seek out professional help, so why are they then acting so stupid about this. It's a tempest in a tea pot and doesn't count for squat, but if it did the solution isn't in punishing people, but of course this is what I'd expect to come out of the halls of a locker room, so I'm not surprised at the knee jerk reaction to another knee jerk reaction. It's all entertainment and distraction in my opinion. They probably working together to create drama.
CasualBystander
Celestial
As long as they are kneeling I won't be watching.
Might try NASCAR this year - they don't and won't have any kneelers.
Might try NASCAR this year - they don't and won't have any kneelers.
nivek
As Above So Below
Well in my view the NFL players are paid to do a job and part of that job is showing respect for the national anthem, whether we agree with that or not that is how it is...Same goes for a job I had in a corporation once, I had to do a lot of things that wasn't in my job description or clear cut from the start...If I didn't do those extras or protested I would have been fired or demoted, why should these players that are making millions be treated any differently?...All those millions they make each year and they can't be bothered to stand and show respect for the nation and people they are making those millions from?...To me there's no excuse for their behaviour...
Caeldeth
Noble
I still don't care about people kneeling during the anthem. I'm a 15 year Marine veteran and I still don't care. This isn't North Korea or a dictatorship. People have the right to kneel, salute, hold their hand over their heart, bow, whatever. It's a non issue to me. The whole kneeling thing and people getting mad about it is just another example of Americans getting mad over dumb shit. It's all to common right now. America is turning into the land of the little pussies.
CasualBystander
Celestial
It is the principle.
There are a lot of people that do care and it is offensive to them.
If players want to do it anywhere they want - when they aren't paid by the fans - that's fine.
I haven't watched an award shows in years. I quit watching football or going to the stadium after this started. If they are going to make political statements that offend me I have better things to do.
That the left is SO intolerant is polarizing - look at what is happening to Kanye West.
He might have to change genres and move into Country and Western music.
I have suggested that players stay in the tunnel or locker room like they did before 2009. Problem solved. They can kneel in the locker room or tunnel all they want.
If people are going to misuse a platform the easiest solution is to take it away.
CasualBystander
Celestial
NFL owners pass new national anthem policy
This just got rendered an academic discussion:
ATLANTA -- NFL owners have unanimously approved a new national anthem policy that requires players to stand if they are on the field during the performance but gives them the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer, it was announced Wednesday.
The policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.
"We want people to be respectful of the national anthem," commissioner Roger Goodell said. "We want people to stand -- that's all personnel -- and make sure they treat this moment in a respectful fashion. That's something we think we owe. [But] we were also very sensitive to give players choices."
All 32 owners approved the policy, which will be part of the NFL's game operations manual and thus not subject to collective bargaining. The NFL Players Association said in a statement that it will review the policy and "challenge any aspect" that is inconsistent with the CBA.
GO REDSKINS.
This just got rendered an academic discussion:
ATLANTA -- NFL owners have unanimously approved a new national anthem policy that requires players to stand if they are on the field during the performance but gives them the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer, it was announced Wednesday.
The policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.
"We want people to be respectful of the national anthem," commissioner Roger Goodell said. "We want people to stand -- that's all personnel -- and make sure they treat this moment in a respectful fashion. That's something we think we owe. [But] we were also very sensitive to give players choices."
All 32 owners approved the policy, which will be part of the NFL's game operations manual and thus not subject to collective bargaining. The NFL Players Association said in a statement that it will review the policy and "challenge any aspect" that is inconsistent with the CBA.
GO REDSKINS.
Caeldeth
Noble
What does that make the right if they are crying and getting their panties in a bunch because of a couple men kneeling? You are all gungho over the second amendment I think you forgot about the first amendment. You can't pick and choose which part of the constitution you want to follow. Don't call the left intolerant if your crying about this, it's like a pot calling the kettle black.
Toroid
Founding Member
The NFL owners has enacted a new policy that on-field players must stand during the National Anthem. Those who don't have the option of staying in the locker room.
NFL owners pass new national anthem policy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4EUoSNNGD8
NFL owners pass new national anthem policy
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4EUoSNNGD8
CasualBystander
Celestial
First amendment??? Really???
Guy got fired by Google for merely observing that women are different than men (I've checked, they are).
The football players are employees of a company.
This in no way impacts their free speech rights.
The football players can walk around on their knees all they want once they LEAVE THE STADIUM.
Their employers have no obligation to provide them with a bully pulpit and 40 camera broadcast coverage to spread their message.
I checked the constitution:
https://usconstitution.net/const.html
There is no mention that 40 camera broadcast coverage is a requirement to support someone's free speech right.
Under your definition football player who stops in the middle of a play and flips off the crowd is also exercising protected free speech.
Good luck with that.
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Caeldeth
Noble
You speak of intolerance but you yourself, are being intolerant. Should every NFL game stop concessions, lock the bathroom, and force everybody in the crowed to stand for the flag as well? You should stand up off your recliner in that case and put your hand on your heart too or else you are all a bunch of hypocrites. If you love our constitution as much as you falsely claim you should respect every aspect of it, not just what you want to pick and choose.
CasualBystander
Celestial
Well...
Freedom of speech doesn't depend on the message.
Someone in the stands flipping people off will get escorted out of the stadium. You claim that violates his freedom of speech.
I quite frankly think you are nuts when it comes to this issue.
I normally consider you reasonable and don't understand your position.
When colleges and other liberal forums, and companies like Google, stop suppressing conservative free speech I will take the issue a little more seriously - until then it is a joke.
nivek
As Above So Below
I’m going to rename my AR15 to MS13 so the liberals will protect them...
Sorry, I couldn't resist throwing that in...
CasualBystander
Celestial
I’m going to rename my AR15 to MS13 so the liberals will protect them...
Sorry, I couldn't resist throwing that in...
Verify: Can NFL players get fired for protesting during the national anthem?
The only reason football players couldn't be fired for disrespect to the flag is that they have a union contract, and it wasn't in the code of conduct.
Now it is in the code of conduct and they can be disciplined.
If they were at-will employees they could have been fired for insubordination.
Doesn't matter what you believe - that is the law.
Gambeir
Celestial
I've been thinking about this for several days now. Caeldeth is 100% right in that it's totally in keeping with being an American to be able to express your own individual beliefs how you chose.
That is a very intellectual understanding of the foundations of the supreme laws of the people as contained in the Bills of Rights; a unique American Invention hated by all royalty, offically self proclaimed, and the wannabee club of bilderbergs.
The arguments here as so equal that I've even found myself agreeing with conflicting statements in this thread! What's wrong with this picture?
The right to vote and the right to vote by secret ballot are critical rights. Making yourself a visible political supporter is to abandon that right and civic duty. No one should be posting any political signs, nor wearing buttons, nor taking a knee. In fact political support should be illegal by moral codes of law as subversive and dangerous. No money should be allowed from private organizations or hands at all. Only traceable tax payer support made direct and equal amounts to all parties running for offices.
Americans have forgotten the reasons that brought the original Europeans to these lands, which was totalitarianism rulership under kings and religious orders, where neither the freedom to speak openly, nor possess weapons, nor to oppose in any way was tolerated; where kings taxed the smoke out of a chimney, and people starved while forests with game were off limits.
The right to vote by secret ballot, and to keep your own beliefs private are being subverted by open support from public icons on political issues and political figures. That is wrong and it is something we need to see as wrong and opposed to principles of democratic rule. Otherwise we will find ourselves in a place like the Germans did, like the Russians did, and like the Chinese, North Koreans, and many other already have. That's a place where you must show your support, are required to make donations, are required to participate and to do anything else is illegal.
What isn't mandatory is illegal.
Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn
Caeldeth is still 100% right. It's the players that are wrong and it's right that people show their disapproval, but not because they disagree politically, but because they disagree that any public figure should expose their own political beliefs to sway the thoughts of others outside of the political arena.
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CasualBystander
Celestial
It is all about money.
They let the players protest. They perhaps thought it would expand the fan base with more progressives.
The opposite happened.
People (lots of them - like me) won't watch the NFL if there is a flag protest, period.
Didn't watch more than about 5 minutes of any Redskins game (that only because I was visiting with my neighbor). Didn't go to any games.
Didn't watch the super bowl for the first time I can remember - and didn't give a damn who won.
From my perspective, the flag protesters can rot in hell.
Now - the reason that the NFL took away from the players a bully pulpit that was not theirs - is that it cost them money.
Caeldeth
Noble
As a veteran, I fought for their right to kneel. This soldier in this picture, fought for their right to kneel. Our country is (supposed to be) more than a flag, more than a symbol. It’s those three words “We The People”
CasualBystander
Celestial
No one argues that they have a right to kneel.
The debate is over the need to provide them with an 80,000 person audience and 40 camera professional grade nationwide broadcast coverage.
If they are going to be allowed to make their statement - their detractors have a right to the same forum.
I as a fan have a God-given constitutional right to turn them off and turn my back on football.
And the NFL owners have a right to fire these players if they want their audience back.
The government and the first amendment is not involved. The government isn't banning them. They have a right to do this once (since acts of free speech aren't prohibited).
The audience has a right to be offended and the NFL owners have a right to fire them.
You have a right of free speech, this doesn't mean there won't be consequences. Your right ends at the next person. They have rights too. If you piss off enough people it may affect your career.
You may exercise free speech - you can't compel other people to listen, agree, or view you favorably afterward.
Finally, if you can show me where it says in the constitution that they must be provided with an 80,000 person audience and 40 camera professional grade nationwide broadcast coverage, we can continue this. Otherwise until everyone is provided with their forum there is no need to let them to continue to use it.
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