Reactionless Drive Systems.

Discussion in 'Alternative Technologies & Energetics' started by CasualBystander, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. 3FEL9

    3FEL9 Islander

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    Alright,, makes some sense.. I think :).. one way reactions.. drive .. propulsion you say..
     
  2. spacecase0

    spacecase0 earth human

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    the other method of moving is to toss something heavy the other direction,
    issue with that is that you just can't carry enough heavy things to move the heavy things you need to move in the future with that method.
    so any method you can manage to use that you don't have to carry heavy things to move around wins
     
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  3. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    A rocket is a reaction drive system. Ion propulsion is a reaction drive system.

    A reaction drive system by definition is one where you throw sh*t out the back to make you go forward.

    No sh*t out the back, no go forward.

    Just that simple.
     
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  4. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    Newtonian (Reaction) drive systems use Newton's law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    They expel mass/energy in one direction to make the ship move in the opposite direction since the net momentum of the system has to be zero.

    Reactionless drive systems have no identifiable mass/energy loss in any direction except as thermal loss as a byproduct of the drive system.

    As a side note - the Pioneer anomaly is thought to be due to asymmetric heating of the exterior of the spacecraft which caused an unintended effect on velocity.
     
  5. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Honorable

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    Im keepin one eye on this whole thing

    Case anyone comes up with a good explanation to how these drives works.

    Right now - How they dont work seems to be sorted out
     
  6. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory is viewed as denying that it works. That is more than 97% of scientists (a consensus).

    The Pilot Wave flavor of quantum theory says it works and gives guidance on how to optimize the design.

    Basically the pilot wave kicks virtual particles out the back (will give an accurate description later).

    Still thinking about why it provides more momentum (thrust) than expelling energy.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
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  7. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Honorable

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    Massless ? With mass we're back at the sh*t out the back level
     
  8. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    I'm going to look at the actual explanation so I understand it again.

    No mass is lost from the vehicle.

    I could kick ass on virtual particles from now 'til doomsday and the mass of my rocket won't change.

    It isn't like they are expending propellant.

    The issue is why does this generate more momentum that expelling the energy?

    Think I know why - but need time to do some math.
     
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  9. 3FEL9

    3FEL9 Islander

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    Thanks ,, I'm clueless ... not schooled in any of this, besides normal merchant marine propulsion systems..
    Give it your best shot and report back
     
  10. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    You need an AI to calculate it for you...:tongue8:
     
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  11. 3FEL9

    3FEL9 Islander

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    I have suspected that for some time. Casual could be an A.I, lol

    But then again, theres this jersey burning kneeling thread.. So he could be human afterall
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
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  12. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Was looking forward to this bit...:biggrinn8:
     
  13. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    [​IMG]

    Pilot Wave theory suggests Trumpet shaped Emdrive would have more thrust | NextBigFuture.com

    Pilot wave theory says that an object radiates a wave field, and it is then pulled or attracted to regions of that field that have higher intensity or energy density. In that way, the wave field is actually ‘piloting’ the object, hence the name.

    Through modelling, the team showed that a sufficiently strong and asymmetrical electromagnetic field could act as a pilot wave. And that’s exactly what the EM drive generates.

    Because the cone, or frustum, of the EM drive is asymmetrical, it would also generate an asymmetrical wave field. As a result, the walls of the EM drive would move towards the areas of higher intensity, creating thrust.


    They are saying the narrow end of the frustum is pulled forward because highest intensity is in the narrow end. I interpret this as the particles in the wall of the narrow end of the EMDrive are "fooled" into thinking their pilot waves are guiding them toward the big end of the EMDrive.


    Here is a skeptical view:
    NASA's EMDrive And The Quantum Theory Of Pilot Waves
     
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  14. 3FEL9

    3FEL9 Islander

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  15. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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  16. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    The US is backing new research into this EMdrive...

    U.S. Funds ‘Quantized Inertia’ Research To Advance EmDrive Engine Project

    upload_2019-5-26_11-29-48.jpeg

    The U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has awarded a $1.3 million grant to divisive (to say the least) British physicist Mike McCulloch to prove his contentious "quantized inertia (QI) theory."

    In McCulloch's own words, his quantized inertia theory suggests a new model for inertial mass that combines Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Very controversially, quantized inertia predicts galaxy rotation without dark matter or adjustable parameters, and predicts the EmDrive (or propellant-less propulsion), another equally notorious technology that seemingly violates fundamental physical laws.

    The starting point for this controversy is "Uhler radiation." McCulloch, a professor of physics at the University of Plymouth in England, described Uhler radiation as a kind of radiation you see when you accelerate.


    When moving forward or accelerating, a horizon radiation appears behind you, and the radiation emanates from this horizon the way Hawking radiation is emitted by the horizon of a black hole. McCulloch said that one definition of quantized inertia is that the force we know as inertia is caused by a gradient in this Uhler radiation.

    DARPA, however, isn't so much interested in the theory of quantized inertia, per se, as it is in the practical application of this theory. It wants to develop a far more workable version of the EmDrive engine that can be used to power U.S. spacecraft on very long interstellar voyages.

    As a result of lingering interest in the EmDrive, there's more global activity in space, said Mike Fiddy, program manager for DARPA's Nascent Light-Matter Interactions program. DARPA is seeking to deepen its understanding "of how to move objects around in more energy efficient and versatile ways."


    An EmDrive is an electromagnetic thruster that doesn't use any reaction mass. It also emits no directional radiation. This highly controversial space propulsion technology might propel a spacecraft in violation of the law of conservation of momentum. It's also called a radio frequency (RF) resonant cavity thruster.

    In a still unexplained way, the thruster harnesses subatomic particles that continuously fade into and out of existence to produce thrust. It seems to "quantum vacuum fluctuation," an effect where sub-atomic particles create themselves on their own accord in the vacuum of space before self-destructing.

    In previously published papers, McCulloch used his quantized inertia theory to explain galaxy rotation without the presence of dark matter, as well as the thrust achieved by the EmDrive.

    McCulloch asserts the EmDrive is a manifestation of quantized inertia. He also believes a different set of experiments could produce more powerful QI-powered thrusts.

    After 18 months of theory-building, the DARPA grant will help fund experimental teams in Germany and Spain, which will build a pair of thrust-producing experiments. One such experiment is a shielded laser loop, and another uses asymmetrical mirrors and laser light, said McCulloch.

    If the experiments succeed, as predicted by McCulloch's theory, researchers will look for ways to enhance the thrusts.

    A British aerospace engineer named Roger Shawyer is credited with developing the EmDrive in 2001. He's pushed the idea through his company, Satellite Propulsion Research. Chemical engineer Guido Fetta then designed the Cannae Drive, somewhat based on similar principles.

    The EmDrive and Cannae Drive -- if they work as theorized - stand to revolutionize many propulsion applications, especially those used in spaceflight.

    .
     
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  17. CasualBystander

    CasualBystander Celestial

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    Should point out that whoever wrote this doesn't know what they are talking about.

    It is Unruh radiation (named after W. G. Unruh).

    It comes from the Fulling–Davies–Unruh effect.
     
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