Reincarnation

pigfarmer said:
It's Dain Bramage, not reincarnation. In my medical opinion :)

If she woke up fluent in a dead language then there would be some cud to chew
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this reminds me,
I once went to a church where people were "speaking in tungs" and writhing on the floor,
I had not been warned what to expect.
all I wanted to do is run, but I figured they would tackle me on the way out, so I just froze up and hoped they ignored me.
no idea if they were speaking dead languages or not,
but either way, running seems like the thing to do.
 
spacecase0 said:
this reminds me,
I once went to a church where people were "speaking in tungs" and writhing on the floor,
I had not been warned what to expect.
all I wanted to do is run, but I figured they would tackle me on the way out, so I just froze up and hoped they ignored me.
no idea if they were speaking dead languages or not,
but either way, running seems like the thing to do.
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Wiki has quite a lot to say on that and to me it sounds like something other than language. At least the Voynich Manuscript has nice pictures (and was probably readable to someone sometime). I don't think the woman's Irish accent would necessarily pass muster in Ireland. She woke up speaking Latin or something then it's a different story.
 
I had some friends who attended a Pentacost church a few times where 'tongues' were spoken.
They said no one could make out what was said because it was the 'tongues of God' and not for the public at large but those blessed. It was not Latin or Greek or Hebrew, etc. They said it sounded 'made up' to them.

Some claim (Baptists I knew) the Biblical passage about 'speaking in tongues' in the NT refers to the other languages of men in other areas so the blessed could share the Gospel with other lands. And it was not some gobbledygook as is often heard in fringe churches.
 
If they want to interpret The Word in whatever fashion they want I'm totally cool with that. Knock yourself out - literally if that's what you want. I'm good.

Organizations that tell you how and when to do all that and possibly the 'selling of indulgences' if you'll allow the reference, is where the real trouble comes in. Well, I guess that depends on what kind of snakes you want to wave if that's your thing. No idea if any of this involves any of that but I hope my point is visible in there somewhere.
 
pigfarmer said:
If they want to interpret The Word in whatever fashion they want I'm totally cool with that. Knock yourself out - literally if that's what you want. I'm good.

Organizations that tell you how and when to do all that and possibly the 'selling of indulgences' if you'll allow the reference, is where the real trouble comes in. Well, I guess that depends on what kind of snakes you want to wave if that's your thing. No idea if any of this involves any of that but I hope my point is visible in there somewhere.
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The 'true Christians' claim that the 'tongue talkers' are just getting emotional and hyped up when they talk like that and it's not the word of God but just delusional. BTW..there are also snake handlers in the same type of churches who handle poisonous snakes and proves that God keeps them safe...this is allegedly also in the NT somewhere.
The selling of indulgences was a Catholic thing in the old days...I haven't heard of any of that in modern times but who knows..?
I knew some independant Baptists ..one student/Pastor worked for me at my Optometry office when I was still an active doctor and he was quite nice and fairminded and his group followed the NT as closely as anyone I ever knew. They did not believe in the weird tongue nor snake things and felt that Roman Catholics were also not follwoing the true word of God correctly. He pointed out many things to me and he was correct in that what Catholics did in many instances is not in the NT or the OT. It was added by the very early Roman Catholic church and in some instances were even pagan aspects.
There is a good deal of this that has been written about over the years in various books and articles.
I am not an expert but fairly well read in this ,but I spent more time in college studying religions of the far east and India., though I majored in Optometry of course.
 
dr wu said:
The 'true Christians' claim that the 'tongue talkers' are just getting emotional and hyped up when they talk like that and it's not the word of God but just delusional. BTW..there are also snake handlers in the same type of churches who handle poisonous snakes and proves that God keeps them safe...this is allegedly also in the NT somewhere.
The selling of indulgences was a Catholic thing in the old days...I haven't heard of any of that in modern times but who knows..?
I knew some independant Baptists ..one student/Pastor worked for me at my Optometry office when I was still an active doctor and he was quite nice and fairminded and his group followed the NT as closely as anyone I ever knew. They did not believe in the weird tongue nor snake things and felt that Roman Catholics were also not follwoing the true word of God correctly. He pointed out many things to me and he was correct in that what Catholics did in many instances is not in the NT or the OT. It was added by the very early Roman Catholic church and in some instances were even pagan aspects.
There is a good deal of this that has been written about over the years in various books and articles.
I am not an expert but fairly well read in this ,but I spent more time in college studying religions of the far east and India., though I majored in Optometry of course.
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Specific methods of worship can be startling and even extreme. My pious Roman Catholic brother will pass comments about other churches that go right over my head. They all look about the same to me and to carp about someone else's methods does not seem particularly admirable.

The 'selling of indulgences' was just a Martin Luther reference - and I don't know whole lot about it except that the Church wasn't acting as a spiritual guide more as a broker to access God. Enough with the Greek, print it and distribute The Word in a common language. 'Indulgences' are just Sin credit - Lucifer Morningstar would love it.

You want to wave snakes have at it, you shouldn't need a snake handling license from a church or anyone else to do it.
 
I wrote a paper in college about the serpent handling Holiness Christians of Appalachia. I found that, when you consider the history of those areas and what the people were experiencing at the time that serpent handling was popularized, there is way more going on under the surface than just handling snakes. My paper concluded that serpent handling was a form of anti-systemic protest, or "weapons of the weak". It was, and is, a means of protest by a people who feel they are in a marginalized and powerless position. It is not a coincidence that serpent handling came about in some of the poorest places in the USA where large manufacturing and mining companies ran the show and were in collusion with governments, even owning the very towns where people lived and producing their own currency in the form of scrip. Serpent handling, along with Holiness theology and lifestyle, was an act of defiance against an evil world determined to keep them down. It offered the promise of (eventual) justice in the form of God's judgment on the wicked and a better life that was cruelly denied to them on Earth.
 
dr wu said:
my Optometry office when I was still an active doctor
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OK, you're literally the first Optometrist I've encountered in some time and you might get a kick out of this. In the height of the pandemic I needed a prescription refilled and the only way to do then was through 800 Contacts. My regular doctor's office was a victim of the shutdown unfortunately. You would have died laughing if you saw the 'eye test' they required despite having an actual prescription. It involved my iPhone sitting on the kitchen counter and me a few feet away squinting and hopping around like a bird that was about to mate. Oh Gawd ..... at least they only cost twice what they normally did ...........

My regular doc has resurfaced elsewhere and I need to pay her a visit. She's great, one of those that really take the extra step to make sure you are squared away. Could be fae folk - she's not 5 feet tall. She could stand on my lap to adjust my glasses.
 
pigfarmer said:
OK, you're literally the first Optometrist I've encountered in some time and you might get a kick out of this. In the height of the pandemic I needed a prescription refilled and the only way to do then was through 800 Contacts. My regular doctor's office was a victim of the shutdown unfortunately. You would have died laughing if you saw the 'eye test' they required despite having an actual prescription. It involved my iPhone sitting on the kitchen counter and me a few feet away squinting and hopping around like a bird that was about to mate. Oh Gawd ..... at least they only cost twice what they normally did ...........

My regular doc has resurfaced elsewhere and I need to pay her a visit. She's great, one of those that really take the extra step to make sure you are squared away. Could be fae folk - she's not 5 feet tall. She could stand on my lap to adjust my glasses.
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I haven't seen my eye doctor in 2 years, 2019 because he no longer took my insurance and I wasn't worried about new glasses. Last year because of the pandemic, and this year I called and they can't get me in until December. So I made an appointment at a different place and I "only have to wait" 2 months. My daughter took her son to a place that advertised free eye exam and 2 pair of glasses for 59.00 (lenses, not frames, but still). She had taken him to an expensive doctor who wrote a bad prescription and the eye doctor would not fix it. This place is called Stanton optical and the eye exam was on a computer with a remote doctor (seemingly in India). The computer was hooked up to the eye equipment and they got him a good prescription that works but it freaked my daughter out. At least he got the glasses he can see with now.
 
pigfarmer said:
OK, you're literally the first Optometrist I've encountered in some time and you might get a kick out of this. In the height of the pandemic I needed a prescription refilled and the only way to do then was through 800 Contacts. My regular doctor's office was a victim of the shutdown unfortunately. You would have died laughing if you saw the 'eye test' they required despite having an actual prescription. It involved my iPhone sitting on the kitchen counter and me a few feet away squinting and hopping around like a bird that was about to mate. Oh Gawd ..... at least they only cost twice what they normally did ...........

My regular doc has resurfaced elsewhere and I need to pay her a visit. She's great, one of those that really take the extra step to make sure you are squared away. Could be fae folk - she's not 5 feet tall. She could stand on my lap to adjust my glasses.
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I was an OD for almost 45 years....was with several eyecare chains then opened up my own place in 1992..until Covid closed the doors in 2020. But I was ready to retire so it worked out well. Had a blast as an OD...didn't take the doctor part too seriously though I did a good job always for my patients. I wore a polo shirt and khaki slacks and usually a white lab coat but no ties. Many of the OD's in my area were prententious a**holes. Heh....I need an eye exam for new glasses...know any good OD's? :biggrinn8:
 
JahaRa said:
I haven't seen my eye doctor in 2 years, 2019 because he no longer took my insurance and I wasn't worried about new glasses. Last year because of the pandemic, and this year I called and they can't get me in until December. So I made an appointment at a different place and I "only have to wait" 2 months. My daughter took her son to a place that advertised free eye exam and 2 pair of glasses for 59.00 (lenses, not frames, but still). She had taken him to an expensive doctor who wrote a bad prescription and the eye doctor would not fix it. This place is called Stanton optical and the eye exam was on a computer with a remote doctor (seemingly in India). The computer was hooked up to the eye equipment and they got him a good prescription that works but it freaked my daughter out. At least he got the glasses he can see with now.
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There is no substitute for a real OD in the room doing the eye test and looking in the back of the eye with dilation and glaucoma test...they are all necessary. This new computer online crap is just that...crap.
I can't tell you how many people I saw over the years that had hidden problems that I found by retinal examination and other techniques. Get dilated when you go in....it could save your life.
 
dr wu said:
There is no substitute for a real OD in the room doing the eye test and looking in the back of the eye with dilation and glaucoma test...they are all necessary. This new computer online crap is just that...crap.
I can't tell you how many people I saw over the years that had hidden problems that I found by retinal examination and other techniques. Get dilated when you go in....it could save your life.
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I have been wearing glasses for over 50 years and my parents always took me to an opthamologist because of some geneitic weirdness in my mother's family. The appointment I made this time is for a practice that considers themselves a medical practice (is that something new?) My company changed insurance to Eyemed and no one except the big box places take that in this city so they told me they will be filing the claim through my health insurance. I hope it pays.
 
JahaRa said:
I have been wearing glasses for over 50 years and my parents always took me to an opthamologist because of some geneitic weirdness in my mother's family. The appointment I made this time is for a practice that considers themselves a medical practice (is that something new?) My company changed insurance to Eyemed and no one except the big box places take that in this city so they told me they will be filing the claim through my health insurance. I hope it pays.
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Most OD's know to dilate and it has become a standard of care...Ophthalmologists have always dilated but are often not very good at refractions for glasses and contacts. Most OD's now consider themselves Optometric Physicians and Ophthalmologists are MD's. I took Eyemed and most OD's do but Md's will file it through major medical but that often will only cover the eye exam and not always the glasses. It depends on the practice options.
 
dr wu said:
Most OD's know to dilate and it has become a standard of care...Ophthalmologists have always dilated but are often not very good at refractions for glasses and contacts. Most OD's now consider themselves Optometric Physicians and Ophthalmologists are MD's. I took Eyemed and most OD's do but Md's will file it through major medical but that often will only cover the eye exam and not always the glasses. It depends on the practice options.
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Well, I can always get my glasses at Costco or somewhere that takes Eyemed. I just need the eye exam and a prescription. Thanks for explaining this.
 
We were just chatting over coffee and my wife plunks down Journey of Souls by Michael Newton. She bought it to kill time on the train. I'll have a look. But we are headed for a funeral today and this sort of thing has been very much the topic lately.

In the preface the author makes a distinction between all life on Earth and humans in that they do not live in fear of their mortal existence and we do. Beyond a basic survival instinct is that true? I mean, someone figured out dolphins are one of the few animals who **** just for fun so maybe there has been some time spent on this, who knows. If so the US taxpayer probably had to foot the bill.

We are the most advanced apex predator on the planet. All sorts of near-misses similar to us but we made it to the top through evolution. With the exception of maybe your appendix if we have some particular ability or behavior it's there for a reason, or was. In order to build complex social structures like we do and ultimately thrive we've had to make compromises between our basic instincts and group behavior. The second oldest profession is to be a shaman who can tell you what goes on in the dark beyond where fire light and that's where we cooked up some of our most intimate beliefs. Repeat something loud enough and long enough it becomes fact. Do that for millions of years and it gets into the wiring I think.

In short, if we lacked these beliefs and everyone actually knew for a fact there is no accountability or existence beyond death or any of that we wouldn't be the apex predator we are, we'd have wiped ourselves out long ago. Don't think sociopaths are going to be too successful building complex civilizations. This belief is an evolutionary check valve that allows our line to succeed in ways others couldn't. Not the only reason but an important one. The behaviors that favor group dynamics are more acceptable than the ones that don't.

What a steaming pile for a rainy Friday. Personally, I don't think we're just meat bred with belief and couldn't change my mind if I wanted to. I really do think you could make that argument though. A bit like the plain old nuts & bolts theory about ET, sucks all the fun out of it.
 
pigfarmer said:
We were just chatting over coffee and my wife plunks down Journey of Souls by Michael Newton. She bought it to kill time on the train. I'll have a look. But we are headed for a funeral today and this sort of thing has been very much the topic lately.

In the preface the author makes a distinction between all life on Earth and humans in that they do not live in fear of their mortal existence and we do. Beyond a basic survival instinct is that true? I mean, someone figured out dolphins are one of the few animals who **** just for fun so maybe there has been some time spent on this, who knows. If so the US taxpayer probably had to foot the bill.

We are the most advanced apex predator on the planet. All sorts of near-misses similar to us but we made it to the top through evolution. With the exception of maybe your appendix if we have some particular ability or behavior it's there for a reason, or was. In order to build complex social structures like we do and ultimately thrive we've had to make compromises between our basic instincts and group behavior. The second oldest profession is to be a shaman who can tell you what goes on in the dark beyond where fire light and that's where we cooked up some of our most intimate beliefs. Repeat something loud enough and long enough it becomes fact. Do that for millions of years and it gets into the wiring I think.

In short, if we lacked these beliefs and everyone actually knew for a fact there is no accountability or existence beyond death or any of that we wouldn't be the apex predator we are, we'd have wiped ourselves out long ago. Don't think sociopaths are going to be too successful building complex civilizations. This belief is an evolutionary check valve that allows our line to succeed in ways others couldn't. Not the only reason but an important one. The behaviors that favor group dynamics are more acceptable than the ones that don't.

What a steaming pile for a rainy Friday. Personally, I don't think we're just meat bred with belief and couldn't change my mind if I wanted to. I really do think you could make that argument though. A bit like the plain old nuts & bolts theory about ET, sucks all the fun out of it.
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I did read the Michael Newton books some years ago. Very interesting “theories” if you will. I seem to remember that our relatives and friends consist of pods of souls. We keep coming back to relive our lives and come to grips with our various problems.
 
pigfarmer said:
We were just chatting over coffee and my wife plunks down Journey of Souls by Michael Newton. She bought it to kill time on the train. I'll have a look. But we are headed for a funeral today and this sort of thing has been very much the topic lately.

In the preface the author makes a distinction between all life on Earth and humans in that they do not live in fear of their mortal existence and we do. Beyond a basic survival instinct is that true? I mean, someone figured out dolphins are one of the few animals who **** just for fun so maybe there has been some time spent on this, who knows. If so the US taxpayer probably had to foot the bill.

We are the most advanced apex predator on the planet. All sorts of near-misses similar to us but we made it to the top through evolution. With the exception of maybe your appendix if we have some particular ability or behavior it's there for a reason, or was. In order to build complex social structures like we do and ultimately thrive we've had to make compromises between our basic instincts and group behavior. The second oldest profession is to be a shaman who can tell you what goes on in the dark beyond where fire light and that's where we cooked up some of our most intimate beliefs. Repeat something loud enough and long enough it becomes fact. Do that for millions of years and it gets into the wiring I think.

In short, if we lacked these beliefs and everyone actually knew for a fact there is no accountability or existence beyond death or any of that we wouldn't be the apex predator we are, we'd have wiped ourselves out long ago. Don't think sociopaths are going to be too successful building complex civilizations. This belief is an evolutionary check valve that allows our line to succeed in ways others couldn't. Not the only reason but an important one. The behaviors that favor group dynamics are more acceptable than the ones that don't.

What a steaming pile for a rainy Friday. Personally, I don't think we're just meat bred with belief and couldn't change my mind if I wanted to. I really do think you could make that argument though. A bit like the plain old nuts & bolts theory about ET, sucks all the fun out of it.
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Uh...let me smoke some weed and get back to you on that.... :huh8:
 
dr wu said:
Uh...let me smoke some weed and get back to you on that.... :huh8:
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Won't help but it won't hurt - have at it I say !

Not new thoughts, today was the day it came out in a pile. Confronting the potential futility of your existence is waaaaay too heavy before lunch.
 
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