Roswell, can we finally let it go?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Wade, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    elizondo never said anything about it
    the only person who said anything roswell related is eric davis, and he made a bunch of equally ludicrious claims that weren't confirmed by anyone else in the TTSA group
     
  2. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    gave you a awesome for mentioning this seriously underrated case
     
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  3. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Wrong. He was asked about Roswell in the Q&A session at the end of his recent MUFON Symposium talk, at the 1:05:15 mark.

    His response was very interesting. He said that as an intelligence officer you can tell a lot by looking at the details of the operation; for example, if you have heavy equipment like flatbed trucks being used to retrieve material, that doesn't correlate with a Mylar balloon recovery. And he said that you need to look at the commanding officer involved in the operation: “was it a staff sergeant; was it a major; was it a colonel?” In the Roswell case, General Ramey took command – and like I said before, that makes zero sense if it was just a weather balloon retrieval.

    You attack anything that doesn’t conform to the “extradimensional ultraterrestrial hypothesis” because you’re attached to that idea like some kind of religion.

    Dr. Eric Davis stated that there have been multiple crash retrieval operations and that the military had a back-engineering program until it was shuttered in 1989 to allow for our technology to progress, because they weren’t getting anywhere with it.

    Only you think that sounds “ludicrous.” To any rational thinker, it makes perfect sense: a device capable of defying inertia and presumably traveling between stars would be substantially beyond our scientific capabilities to understand, because we have no idea how to go about building such a thing yet. But in recent years, physicists have made significant progress in understanding quantum materials such as topological insulators, where the wavefunction of matter is engineered to produce known effects in new ways, and to produce entirely new effects as well.

    So maybe at this point we could begin to understand advanced materials that are arranged with atomic precision, like the photonic metamaterial they’ve talked about (and which Tom DeLonge has claimed lost mass under activation with THz radiation).
     
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  4. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Noble

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    Ahh, yes, giant owls and sandhill cranes which have lived in the area for thousands of years but suddenly people in the late twentieth century started mistaking them for monsters and aliens.
     
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  5. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    oh its recent stuff that explains it, i haven't been following the TTSA stuff since that horrible project ADAM trailer
    anything else interesting in that interview?
    thats all because they thought they had the real deal in their hands before finding it was just a balloon
    maybe because no real evidence of the phenomena being alien has appeared yet?
    a lot of people in the 80's claimed the same thing, later it was confirmed that rich doty had some fun with them
    i am calling it ludicrious because no evidence of his claims has appeared yet
     
  6. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    I'd live happily the rest of my life if I never had to hear the word "Roswell" again.
     
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  7. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    I found it fascinating, but you'd probably find it infuriating because it doesn't support your own foregone conclusion. You attack anything which doesn’t conform to the “extradimensional ultraterrestrial hypothesis,” without fail. It reminds me of the way Creationists attack the theory of evolution.

    I liked that little ADAM Project trailer. It was pretty awesome when Luis Elizondo’s exasperation came through and he said: “If it’s not the eyewitness reports, and it’s not the videos, and it’s not the electro-optical data, and it’s not the electromechanical data, well, how about material? Will that be enough?”

    The guy is literally the walking and talking embodiment of government disclosure, and at least half the people into ufology still won’t believe it. It would be funny if it weren’t so depressing.

    According to…you. But that doesn’t explain most of the eyewitness testimony, or the fact that Jesse Marcel was intimately familiar with military balloon recovery operations long before that event, or the fact that General Ramey got involved at the exact same moment that the story switched from “recovered disc” to “weather balloon.” And a bunch of other stuff.

    But sure, if you’re willing to set aside all of the data and analytical reasoning because you absolutely refuse to accept the ETH, then your explanation might seem sufficient.

    There’s no such thing as evidence of alien origin.

    The best one could hope for is evidence that can’t be explained as any known human technology. Which is exactly what the AATIP concluded from a decade of studying military incidents involving AAVs. You can’t prove “alien origin.” All you can possibly prove is “not human origin,” and even that is very difficult to do.

    This is a key point so pay attention. PsyOps work by manipulating human emotions to override logical thinking.

    Consider a general hypothetical example: let’s say that the military accidentally shoots down a passenger airplane. Some witnesses come forward and say that they saw a fighter jet shoot a missile at the airplane before it exploded and crashed to the ground killing all passengers on board. People start talking about the jet airliner being shot down. This is a serious problem for the military – a deeply embarrassing tragedy. So they get some people with no credibility to tell the public that the military shot down that passenger jet. Suddenly people don’t think the story is credible anymore, because known liars are promoting that explanation. Then “respected officials” offer an alternative explanation: the jet had a mechanical failure that caused the fuel tank to explode mid-air. People accept the official explanation because the correct explanation has been discredited.

    This happens all the time. PsyOps weaponize our own emotional reactions against us, and it’s extremely effective.

    That’s a dumb standard for the use of the word “ludicrous.” Superstring theory has no evidence to support its claims either, and nobody calls it “ludicrous.” You chose the word “ludicrous” based solely on your own pathological bias against any extraterrestrial technological explanation.

    If the government has recovered alien technology in its possession, that fact would be subject to the highest national security classification in existence. So it's totally unsurprising that no credible evidence of crash retrievals has been leaked.

    Personally, I think the days are numbered for the supernatural “extradimensional ultraterrestrial” notion that’s been so fashionable lately (even though it has zero supporting evidence of any kind). Because the AATIP collected scientific data on these devices, and apparently analyzed samples of exotic recovered technological materials, and it looks like some of that kind of data may be public soon, via public channels.

    But trace evidence has already surfaced which points to a technological extraterrestrial explanation – Jacques Vallée even confirmed this in a recent interview when he described materials that didn’t just have nonterrestrial isotopic ratios, but were composed of isotopic ratios that appear nowhere in nature, which indicates that they were deliberately manufactured at the atomic level for reasons unknown to human science.
     
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  8. The shadow

    The shadow The shadow knows!

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    I posted my UFO sighting from way back.
    the craft was Real. it was physical.
    seeing it filled me with a sense of awe. It changed my life. Before my sighting I always felt the subject was a topic of scorn. After it I began to investigate. I found truth. and some frauds.
     
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  9. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    *deep sigh*
    you must get pretty easily amazed, that was just dramatic narrating
    [citation needed]
    nothing really suspicious here, ramey cleared the confusion to them
    we have already proved they aren't human in origin, but alien is the most cliched and overdone of the explanations and it has only lead to dead ends
    soooo.... you just proved my point?
    everyone tells me that and i just shake my head
     
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  10. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    No, he was making an excellent point. And I didn’t say that I was amazed, I said that it was pretty awesome – those two expressions aren’t synonymous in modern parlance.

    Being the former 10-year Director of an official Pentagon program to investigate and scientifically analyze the AAV phenomenon who came out to tell us that these devices are real, exhibit five signature performance characteristics, and aren’t terrestrial in origin, by definition makes him the walking and talking embodiment of government disclosure.

    It took a General to identify a weather balloon? Do you even listen to yourself? Name one other occasion when a General was required to publicly “clear up the confusion” surrounding any mundane situation. It doesn’t happen; that’s what peons are for. Which makes it an anomaly aka suspicious. It makes much more sense to conclude that a General took command of the situation because it was far more important than a balloon, and that the balloon explanation was the cover story that he came up with. I mean, seriously - for anyone to mistake a balloon for a crashed flying saucer, they'd have to be so out of it that drool would be flowing from their mouths as they awaited their next Thorazine injection. And given that Colonel Blanchard rose to the rank of four-star General, it's safe to say that he wasn't a drooling moron.

    You mean “it’s the most obvious and totally rational scientific explanation.” I’d agree with that.

    Much better than the “supernatural invisible omnipotent entity” idea, which is basically Dark Ages thinking, synonymous with “angels,” “devils,” “gods,” and “faeries.”

    As for “dead ends,” explain how the extradimensional ultraterrestrial idea is not a dead end. It doesn’t even make rational sense. And it certainly hasn't provided any answers - in fact it only raises more problems, like "how can it be physically possible to have higher macroscopic dimensions for such a being to reside in, without violating the known laws of physics?" And "how could it be possible for a being to manifest physical objects that defy inertia through the power of sheer thought without violating the conservation of energy and the conservation of momentum?" And "how could another sentient entity have evolved on Earth without leaving any trace of its existence in the geological record?"

    No, you missed the point. I’ll try to make it simpler for you: all that it takes to make gullible people believe that a story is fake, is to have a known liar like Doty advocate it.

    That doesn’t make the story untrue. It only gives people like yourself an easy excuse to dismiss it. Which is the whole point of a PsyOp. Which we know Doty has engaged in professionally.

    The conceit required to shake your head at all of the evidence, from the eyewitness testimony of top fighter pilots and aerospace scientists and soforth, to the trace evidence cases, to the radar and optical data, to the wealth of scientific data supporting the prevalence of habitable exosolar worlds, to the theoretical physics of metric propulsion systems…just blows my mind. Flat-Earthers are in the same category: in their minds, everyone is wrong except for themselves. I think psychiatrists call that "delusional."

    Let’s see where we are in one year, and then see if you’re still shaking your head, or hanging it in shame for believing in a supernatural god-like trickster entity that’s masquerading as advanced technological devices from other star systems, by imponderable means and for inexplicable reasons.

    We already have the testimony of the former Pentagon Director and two of our top fighter pilots and the radar operators and the scientists who conducted the analyses, stating that we’re dealing with advanced technological devices of nonterrestrial origin. And we have over 70 years of reports that clearly point to exotic technology, not supernatural forces. I find all of that far more persuasive than the steeply biased opinion of some anonymous guy on the internet. And I suspect that the ADAM Project will provide material evidence sometime in the next year, and then we can finally put to rest this silly notion that Quetzalcoatl or the Tooth Fairy or whatever is behind AAV reports.

    Maybe then we can finally move forward with the serious business of figuring out how these things operate so we can replicate it.

    In the meantime, why don’t you break out your Ouija board as just ask the trickster god how it’s manifesting solid aerial objects that defy inertia - if your hypothesis is correct, you should be able to get answers by just talking to this invisible omnipresent and omnipotent entity, no?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  11. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    I'd like to read your account - could you post a link?
     
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  12. Ron67

    Ron67 Ignorance isn’t bliss!

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    Why do some people instead of admitting “I don’t know” or even “science can’t explain it yet but the chances are scientists may explain it one day” go for “Its magic,it’s Woo,it’s mumbo jumbo,gods did it”.Crediting the Cosmic Joker as being behind the so far “unexplained” is as logical as people in the past blaming an angry god for the noise of thunder or people in the present wearing their lucky shorts so their team wins!.We don’t know everything but if the human race doesn’t destroy itself then we will know more tomorrow than we do today.
     
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  13. Castle-Yankee54

    Castle-Yankee54 Celestial

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    The most important thing I've learned since reading about ufology and cryptozoology since the 1970s is that there are many different gradations of unidentified and unexplained. What is unidentified can usually be identified by others.
     
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  14. The shadow

    The shadow The shadow knows!

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    3,765
    january 1998 sighting
     
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  15. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    it will only be enough when we manage to contact the entity behind the phenomena
    strangely enough people like the blackvault guy searched and searched and found no documents about this elusive AATIP program
    and no references to it have been found in official literature
    america was in a flying saucer hysteria at the time, anything falling from the sky would make people paranoid
    i will only abandon IDH when science explain the weirder high strangeness events
    science can't explain everthing, this includes stuff that aren't made for the understanding of bald primates
    the point of a PSY OP is to add ridiculous fabricated information to make a serious subject (UFOs) unbelievable, nothing rich doty believed was true
    the first category only proves that there is a unknow phenomena habitating your planet, the second just proves that yes, ETs exist but they are in the same or lower tech level than us
    safe guess: nothing will happen, UFOs will still be a joke, and there will still be people claiming disclosure is near, who know? maybe the entire TTSA thing will be a proven hoax come the end of next year
    thats like claiming that nibiru will impact earth in december
    wait 300 years and maaaayyybbbe your wish will come true
    yeah, like it would listen to a loser in the internet like me
     
  16. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    this is true, however the paranormal will always remain unexplained
    we may 300 years in the future be visiting alpha centauri using antimatter drives and we still won't know what the hell UFOs are
     
  17. Niku120

    Niku120 Honorable

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    109
    Dude ufos ain't paranormal you sound like crazy talking. Alien ghosts on alpha centari?
     
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  18. Zeke

    Zeke Infrequent

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    @humanoidlord

    [​IMG]
     
  19. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    and someone missed my point again, what a surprise
     
  20. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    he wasn't won the argument yet
     
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