Roswell, can we finally let it go?

Todd Feinman

Todd Feinman

tinyurl.com/4atm83v4tinyurl.com/yw38843m
Thanks for those; the Roswell interviews are an important resource. The analysis of the Tic Tac encounter is very interesting. The second UFO sighting I had in 2013 (iirc), I described as a "capsule"; to me it looked like one of those gelatin pill capsules that are in two halves, except that it was bright opaque white. In retrospect and after the Nimitz Incident came out, I think it could certainly have been a Tic Tac object. While not as shocking as the first experience, it's strangeness has slowly sunk in over the years. I watched it clearly, and as it shot away from north to south up into space, covering about 20 degrees of arc, it also appeared to slow down as it disappeared into space along its trajectory; because of the perspective I was watching it from --just as one would expect. It was self-luminous, and when it was very far away I could see it disappear into the darkness of space. Quite amazing actually. My first thought was some kind of military satellite, but given the speed and shape and trajectory, I think that is impossible... I believe the Tic Tacs are coming in from somewhere in space, and also out of the ocean, being trans-medium. I actually think the fist objects I and others saw in 2010 to 2011, were the same ones that the Navy was dealing with too. and they are connected to the McMinnville UFO sighting / photo, as I of course saw them coming from the Trent farm area during the McMinnville UFO festival on the 60th anniversary, etc. etc. The Tic Tacs have been seen before in history, and photographed (Florence stadium event, Mainbrace, etc.), as have the first objects I and others saw --which were seen decades ago and also from the ISS by Leroy Chiao, going into space. I had no idea that the Kearsarge would be followed by UFOs that exactly resembled those I saw in 2010, and the rendering that was released is exact.
With the Tic Tacs --they aren't going to tell you if they were detected above 80,000' --that would be classified..
 
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nivek

nivek

As Above So Below
Roswell 75 years on: Leading UFO expert says he's still unsure if flying saucer really did crash in New Mexico desert - and queries whether US used it to cover-up a top secret aircraft test disaster



The Roswell event started with a flying saucer in military possession on July 8, 1947 and ended with it being nothing more than a weather balloon -and a UFO expert says the '180 narrative flip' was effective in 'killing the story.' 'I am not saying this is deliberate, but the best cover story is the one that makes you laugh, makes roll your eyes,' he said. 'If something becomes a joke then serious politicians, military personal, scientists and journalists don't want to touch it or if they do, they come from a perspective that they do not really believe it.'

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Todd Feinman

Todd Feinman

tinyurl.com/4atm83v4tinyurl.com/yw38843m
I think there was a UFO that crashed at Roswell. The Mogul nonsense should go into the same bin with the crash test dummy stuff. Just days before the Roswell event, Portland, Oregon and other states had a flurry of UFO activity --there is even a whole website about it: Welcome to PROJECT 1947
Five trans-medium UFOs were seen coming out of the ocean in Australia that year too --and were later seen by others flying over the land too.
There was no search on for a top secret test aircraft that had crashed in the area or a secret balloon monitoring Soviet nuclear tests, and a whole bunch of people apparently couldn't identify simple pieces of foil, and had to contact their superiors? There weren't even any Rawin targets as Mogul wasn't flown that day, and it wasn't being searched for.
And, again, I know a person who knew General Craigie, and he told her they were real and that we shouldn't be afraid of them. This Craigie: A Different Perspective: Ben Games and Roswell
 
pigfarmer

pigfarmer

tall, thin, irritable
Nick Pope is the wind sock of ufology. A windsock with a questionable perm.

IDK what happened at Roswell. Whatever it was it probably wasn't whatever we've heard. I recently listened to Kevin Randle speaking with Michael Shermer. Polite interview, nothing we haven't heard, both make valid points. Thing is, when I hear Randle talk about cases that are decades old all I can think of, like Roswell, is 'so what ?'

At least the UAPTF drew a line at the 21st century - at least I think it did - because that makes sense. How bringing up even the material Robert Hastings has on the missile shutdowns is relevant in 2022 is not clear to me. Arguing over cases like that is plain silly - if something productive were to come from that line of activity it would have a long time ago.

There are no lack historical mysteries that will never be solved.
 
Standingstones

Standingstones

Celestial
pigfarmer said:
Nick Pope is the wind sock of ufology. A windsock with a questionable perm.

IDK what happened at Roswell. Whatever it was it probably wasn't whatever we've heard. I recently listened to Kevin Randle speaking with Michael Shermer. Polite interview, nothing we haven't heard, both make valid points. Thing is, when I hear Randle talk about cases that are decades old all I can think of, like Roswell, is 'so what ?'

At least the UAPTF drew a line at the 21st century - at least I think it did - because that makes sense. How bringing up even the material Robert Hastings has on the missile shutdowns is relevant in 2022 is not clear to me. Arguing over cases like that is plain silly - if something productive were to come from that line of activity it would have a long time ago.

There are no lack historical mysteries that will never be solved.
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Lots of these older researchers wrote many books about Roswell. They can’t seem to let it go. It’s been 75 years now, we are down to beating a dead horse. It’s a lot easier to talk about old cases rather than do some legwork on newer UFO stories.
 
Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Standingstones said:
Lots of these older researchers wrote many books about Roswell. They can’t seem to let it go. It’s been 75 years now, we are down to beating a dead horse. It’s a lot easier to talk about old cases rather than do some legwork on newer UFO stories.
Click to expand...

If our goal is understanding UFOs then old cases are one order of magnitude more important than new cases. I would go to say that new cases are irrelevant. I'll explain why:

1.) as we all know, as tech progressed it became easier to fake things. Because of that old cases are far more trustworthy then new ones.

2.) more time passed so more data was collected. It can not be stressed enough how important are small details. I re-read Roswell description from many different witnesses and each time I found a new critical detail that added credibility to the story. There is a recent thread in this forum "Friend's UFO sighting" and only in the 3rd round of question did witness came up with some details of critical importance, like that all his electronic equipment broke down, that he smelt ozone, that he felt scared for his life and that owl watched him ( that was reported in other cases as well ).

3.) There was less time for popular culture to create some observational mythology that now pollutes most testimonials and opens a floodgate for fakes. We almost have expectancy what UFO should look like and how it should behave: saucer shaped, rotating, silver metallic, hovering silently etc. This again distorts reporting on phenomena because witnesses are keen to gain credibility by confirming common beliefs instead of focusing on their genuine initial observations.

During conversations normally both sides aim for shortness, so to hide that they didn't understand something other side said, and that social convention actually helps destroy useful information. That's why in police investigations they interview witnesses many times again and again.
 
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platood

platood

Adept
Dejan Corovic said:
If our goal is understanding UFOs then old cases are one order of magnitude more important than new cases. I would go to say that new cases are irrelevant. I'll explain why:

1.) as we all know, as tech progressed it became easier to fake things. Because of that old cases are far more trustworthy then new ones.

2.) more time passed so more data was collected. It can not be stressed enough how important are small details. I re-read Roswell description from many different witnesses and each time I found a new critical detail that added credibility to the story. There is a recent thread in this forum "Friend's UFO sighting" and only in the 3rd round of question did witness came up with some details of critical importance, like that all his electronic equipment broke down, that he smelt ozone, that he felt scared for his life and that owl watched him ( that was reported in other cases as well ).

3.) There was less time for popular culture to create some observational mythology that now pollutes most testimonials and opens a floodgate for fakes. We almost have expectancy what UFO should look like and how it should behave: saucer shaped, rotating, silver metallic, hovering silently etc. This again distorts reporting on phenomena because witnesses are keen to gain credibility by confirming common beliefs instead of focusing on their genuine initial observations.

During conversations normally both sides aim for shortness, so to hide that they didn't understand something other side said, and that social convention actually helps destroy useful information. That's why in police investigations they interview witnesses many times again and again.
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Well said!

@nivek nice work on the forum!
 
Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
Dejan Corovic

Dejan Corovic

As above, so bellow
The shadow said:
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Yeah, but in all my time studying UFOs I've never heard about this conjecture. What I'm trying to say, he might just invented it.
I mean, when it comes to Roswell, its really hard to work out even the simplest and the most conspicuous thing like: what shape was the craft? Or how were bodies and the debris transported to the Write Patterson AFB. Although I firmly believe that Roswell was real, and that witnesses are credible, there are wild disagreements just about all the aspects of the incident.
So for Ramirez to come up with such a fine structure detail, like DNA composition, Ramirez must had had top secret clearance higher then four star general.
On other angle, I'm a bit weary of retired mid-level ranking intelligence officers throwing in a word or two. These were once powerful people who now sit at home with nothing to do. So, why not do one last job for the former employer and throw in a little bit of confusion. Just so that all these conspiracy theorist can muddy the waters even more. Because, the other half of the job of people who collect information is seeding the misinformation. I wouldn't take a word of an ex-intelligence officer if he wasn't an agency director and giving a testimonial in a front of Congressional committee.
 
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wwkirk

wwkirk

Celestial
The shadow said:
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Dejan Corovic said:
Yeah, but in all my time studying UFOs I've never heard about this conjecture. What I'm trying to say, he might just invented it.
I mean, when it comes to Roswell, its really hard to work out even the simplest and the most conspicuous thing like: what shape was the craft? Or how were bodies and the debris transported to the Write Patterson AFB. Although I firmly believe that Roswell was real, and that witnesses are credible, there are wild disagreements just about all the aspects of the incident.
So for Ramirez to come up with such a fine structure detail, like DNA composition, Ramirez must had had top secret clearance higher then four star general.
On other angle, I'm a bit weary of retired mid-level ranking intelligence officers throwing in a word or two. These were once powerful people who now sit at home with nothing to do. So, why not do one last job for the former employer and throw in a little bit of confusion. Just so that all these conspiracy theorist can muddy the waters even more. Because, the other half of the job of people who collect information is seeding the misinformation. I wouldn't take a word of an ex-intelligence officer if he wasn't an agency director and giving a testimonial in a front of Congressional committee.
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Nick Redfern's theory
His 2005 book, Body Snatchers in the Desert: The Horrible Truth at the Heart of the Roswell Story, purports to show that the Roswell crash may have been military aircraft tests using Japanese POWs, suffering from progeria or radiation effects.
 
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