Saw three jets today in crystal clear, cloudless fall weather and...

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Creepy Green Light, Oct 25, 2018.

  1. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    So I am skeptical at Kenneth Arnold's claim of what the UFO's looked like that he saw. Something is off and doesn't make sense (I posted something about this on another thread a few days ago);

    He said the objects either flew right in front of Mt. Ranier or on top of. He's said that Mt. Ranier was about 23 to 28 miles away from him. He also estimates (which I believe is wrong) that the objects were going 1,200 mph. I want to know how he saw detail, shape & structure of these UFO's. Just today while driving around (it was a perfectly clear fall day with no clouds in my area) and I saw several jets inbound to Newark, Laguardia & JFK traffic. My estimate is they were around 20,000 feet which is about 3 3/4 miles high. I wear contacts but my vision is corrected to 20/20. All I could make out was a white dash mark (-) cruising along while descending. If someone said "Ill give you a million dollars - just describe to me the make, model, shape, markings, etc. of that aircraft accurately." - I'd have no idea. Again, it just looked like a white dash mark about 1/8" of the width of my pinky finger nail. Now it gets more absurd if instead of the object going about 300-400 mph have it going 1,200 mph. It makes no sense & is laughable. All the aircraft I saw, I couldn't make out structure or detail. Couldn't tell you if it was a delta wing, swept wing, wingless, tailless, airline logo markings, etc.

    Yesterday (same weather) I saw a jet coming right at me except at higher altitude. High enough to create a vapor trail. I couldn't even barely see the object. It almost looked like a vapor trail being created by nothing. I barely saw a teeny tiny almost naked to the eye speck. I again said to myself "this object is maybe 6 miles high - try and identify features & structures of the craft." Not a chance. And keep in mind I am on the ground - pretty much still. Now imagine bouncing around the mountain air in a tiny single engine aircraft trying to (all at the same time) observe the UFO's, keep an eye on other traffic, watch for obstacles like mountains, trees, power lines, radio towers, etc.

    Either I'm missing something or Arnold couldn't have been able to report & draw detailed objects at a distance of 23 to 28 miles and them going "1,200 mph". Maybe I'm misinterpreting the information on how far he was from the objects? If someone can correct me - please do. Thanks :)

    PS - it'd be like trying to make out the detail & structure of this jet;

    airplane.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
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  2. Dean

    Dean Adept Dabbler

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    I don't know that this is directly responsive to your question, but it may point you towards further pertinent information. Dr. Bruce Maccabee last year published a short book that goes into various aspects of the Kenneth Arnold sighting in detail -- Three Minutes in June: The UFO Sighting That Changed the World (Richard Dolan Press, 2017). Arnold estimated the distance to the UFOs as 20-25 miles at closest approach, and estimated the width of each object as comparable to the distance between the outer engines (left and right) on a DC-4 (about 60 feet) that was visible in the sky at a distance Arnold estimated as 15 miles. Maccabee suspects that Arnold overestimated the distance of the DC-4, "and that therefore the [unidentified] objects were over 80 feet in length."

    For me, one of the more interesting aspects of the book was the information that there were multiple other sightings in Oregon and Washington state that day, including a number of sightings of multiple objects in the vicinity of Mt. Rainier. Maccabee devotes a chapter to the report of Fred Johnson, a prospector who a gave a detailed report to an FBI agent who interviewed him in August, 1947. This interview occurred during the short period, in 1947, when the FBI was actively pursuing UFO reports. This particular report came into the public domain in 1976 as part of a trove obtained by Maccabee via a FOIA request.

    In the same area and at about the same time as Arnold's sighting, Johnson said he saw a line of very fast-moving reflective objects, one of which he viewed through a hand-held telescope for 45 to 60 seconds; he described that object as a oval-shaped but also referred to a "tail end." Johnson said that the needle on his compass began gyrating wildly from side to side just before he spotted the objects, but returned to normal function after the objects were lost to sight. The FBI agent who conducted the interview concluded, "Informant appeared to be a very reliable individual who advised that he had been a prospector in the states of Montana, Washington and Oregon for the past forty years."
     
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  3. Toroid

    Toroid Founding Member

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    Welcome to the forum. :)
     
  4. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    Great info - thanks :)
     
  5. Dean

    Dean Adept Dabbler

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    I found time to look a little bit further into this matter. Kenneth Arnold's sighting occurred on June 24, 1947. I am posting three documents that may be of interest:

    (No. 1) The text from a memo dated August 25, 1947, from Lt. Col. Donald L. Springer, an intelligence officer at Headquarters Fourth Air Force, Hamilton Field, California, to the FBI office in San Francisco, to which was appended a copy of a letter to the Air Force dated August 20, 1947, from F.M. (Fred) Johnson, the prospector referred to in my post above. In the letter, Johnson describes seeing a formation of flying objects at about the same time and place as Kenneth Arnold's sighting. Springer told the FBI that the Air Force "does not intend to investigate this incident," but asked for a copy of any interview conducted by the FBI.

    (No. 2) An image of the subsequent memorandum dated September 17, 1947, from the FBI Special Agent in Charge at Portland, to the Director of the FBI, reporting on his interview with Fred Johnson.

    (No. 3) This is a composite document: The first page is a one-page government memo, dated July 16, 1947, describing how the unnamed editor of the Idaho Daily Statesman was contacted on July 12 in an effort to evaluate Kenneth Arnold's credibility. (I'm not sure if this memo was produced within the Air Force and then copied to the FBI, or vice versa -- the two agencies were working together on some UFO investigations during this period.) The editor told the investigator that "anything [Arnold] said could be taken very seriously and that he [the editor] actually believed that Mr. Arnold has seen the aforementioned flying discs." The memo further explains that following Arnold's initial report, this editor had assigned a pilot to fly around the region to search for flying disks. Appended is a five-page notarized statement from the (unnamed) pilot, describing in detail the lengthy search flights that he conducted on July 7, 8, and 9. The pilot said that on the third day, flying at about 11,000 feet between Boise and Meridian, he saw an object that he could not identify, but "it was not an airplane." The object flew with a "jerky, rising motion," executed what appeared to be a partial roll, and was lost to sight. The pilot submitted a drawing depicting these movements, which appears on the last page of his statement. The cover memo by the investigating agent states, "It is the personal opinion of the interviewer that [the pilot] actually saw what he states that he saw in the attached report . . . [he] would have to be very strongly convinced that he actually saw something before he would report such an incident and open himself for the ridicule that would accompany such a report."

    The documents number (2) and (3) on my list above are available on the FBI website in the section called "The Vault," but they are inside of a 111-page composite PDF document. I have extracted them here for easier use.
     
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  6. Dean

    Dean Adept Dabbler

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    I thought I'd be able to append those PDFs as an immediate edit to my post above, but I guess not . . . here they are.
     

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