Self awareness and soul

ChrisIB

Honorable
Either we are self aware biological machines or self aware biological machines with a separate soul.

Many animals seem self aware so I would guess a soul is not necessary for self awareness.

If we do not have a soul, self aware robots will soon be made and be superior in almost every way. With technology we will morph into them.
Another possibility is if a soul is just an entity in energy form, a technological product, which is what we will also one day become.

Perhaps AI will evolve into that first and we will just be left as self aware biological machines.

Where do you think we are heading?
 

Octo

Honorable
If we dont become extinct first i believe that in the next 500/1000 years we will achieve eternal life. Download the brain to some machine body will probably be a reallity in the future.
 

spacecase0

earth human
I am convinced that the subconscious is the brain and its hardware, and it is likely self aware
and the consciousness that is you is just using the hardware of the brain and body
current computers are not capable of interfacing with consciousness.
the brain is a perfect interface to consciousness, physics would say that the consciousness shows up as quantum noise. so make an interface to the quantum noise, also make it unique so that the consciousness can identify "home", and you likely will get something showing up to use the interface.
the human brain also appears to be a somewhat good container, (as it is kind of a bit hard to get out).
there are reports of alien abduction were they say they as a consciousness was pumped out of the body.
also talk of a faraday cage keeping consciousness from getting out, so put a dying person in a faraday cage with someone pregnant, and in doing so, they can reincarnate the person so they know who it is.
if this speculation is true, then it should be not that hard to build the hardware to pull someone out of body. would try to set it up the same as how they pump plasma with a magnetic field.
when thinking about this, I started wondering how I would escape any soul prison that someone tried to put me in. and seems to me that the trick is not to go through the container. escape the construct of reality entirely, and then show back up where and when you want.

so, to sum up, I don't think that AI can ever do what a consciousness can do.
and if you are uploaded to a computer, it is likely just a prison. one kind of like the astral realms that many never seem to get out of.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Either we are self aware biological machines or self aware biological machines with a separate soul.

Many animals seem self aware so I would guess a soul is not necessary for self awareness.

To your first sentence both, there are those with a soul and some who walk the earth without a soul or one that is so completely disconnected they have no influence or direction from it...

A soul isn't necessary for self awareness, but other bodies I believe are necessary, the subtle bodies that resonate between the soul and the physical body...There just isn't a soul and nothing else...There are other bodies that are connected to the individual and occupy their own space...
 

ChrisIB

Honorable
Is the soul then the real you or is it in turn just a container for something else? A housing body on another plane.
Does the soul age, can it be stolen vampiracally, akin to the depiction in Lifeforce?

I believe a soul gives us knowledge of the dimension of time, say that whereas we know that we are going to die, a dog does not.

I also think this bears on the subject of disclosure. The religious J Carter maintained he would reveal any knowledge then did an about face. I think society could withstand being told there are aliens out there but not that we lack a soul.
 

August

Metanoia
Is the soul then the real you or is it in turn just a container for something else? A housing body on another plane.
Does the soul age, can it be stolen vampiracally, akin to the depiction in Lifeforce?

I believe a soul gives us knowledge of the dimension of time, say that whereas we know that we are going to die, a dog does not.

I also think this bears on the subject of disclosure. The religious J Carter maintained he would reveal any knowledge then did an about face. I think society could withstand being told there are aliens out there but not that we lack a soul.

I truly do believe the soul can be damaged or even destroyed by a psychic vampire attack. I honestly do not believe souls are immortal, they can be got at if unprotected.
 

spacecase0

earth human
Is the soul then the real you or is it in turn just a container for something else? A housing body on another plane.
Does the soul age, can it be stolen vampiracally, akin to the depiction in Lifeforce?

I believe a soul gives us knowledge of the dimension of time, say that whereas we know that we are going to die, a dog does not.

I also think this bears on the subject of disclosure. The religious J Carter maintained he would reveal any knowledge then did an about face. I think society could withstand being told there are aliens out there but not that we lack a soul.
'
at some point you get to the fact that the words used are not defined well
because of this, I mostly quit using the word soul,
I once did a survay of people I knew, asked them what soul meant, no one seems to think it is the same thing
so, now I use the words:
consciousness
subconscious
superconscious
personality
physical body
energy body
with that expanded set of words you have hope of talking about it and have others get it.
 

nivek

As Above So Below
Is the soul then the real you or is it in turn just a container for something else? A housing body on another plane.

It's the real you in the sense that for someone 'asleep' the real you is centered within the soul body...

Does the soul age, can it be stolen vampiracally, akin to the depiction in Lifeforce?

Yes the soul is not immortal and it's energy can be taken, its claimed there are aliens who are allegedly borrowing the soul from abductees to revitalize themselves...

I believe a soul gives us knowledge of the dimension of time, say that whereas we know that we are going to die, a dog does not.

The soul exists outside of time as we know it...

I also think this bears on the subject of disclosure. The religious J Carter maintained he would reveal any knowledge then did an about face. I think society could withstand being told there are aliens out there but not that we lack a soul.

Some people do not have a soul or a soul so disconnected from themselves they might as well not have one at all...This is stated in many esoteric manuscripts of old...
 

Black Angus

Honorable
All living things have one, including life NOT carbon based as well.

Well i dont have one.

Animals do not, my Australian Shepherd does not, some people do not, which people do and which do not?...It's not about race or creed, that idea was born out of ignorance...It's also not up to someone else to determine who has and who has not, that is a folly and futile to try..
...

I'm comfortable with oblivion, when this platform breaks down i will be gone.
Thats OK.

Trust me ive looked, but i cant find any mechanism for the soul, or its survival.
And no one else has satisfied the burden of proof for its existence either. Its a matter of faith.
 

spacecase0

earth human
Well i dont have one.



I'm comfortable with oblivion, when this platform breaks down i will be gone.
Thats OK.

Trust me ive looked, but i cant find any mechanism for the soul, or its survival.
And no one else has satisfied the burden of proof for its existence either. Its a matter of faith.
have you see the physics experiments that prove that reality needs an observer ?
based on this and other things, I am convinced that this reality is a manifestation of consciousness.
when part of or all of the manifestation ends, you still are a thing.
 

Black Angus

Honorable
have you see the physics experiments that prove that reality needs an observer ?
based on this and other things, I am convinced that this reality is a manifestation of consciousness.
when part of or all of the manifestation ends, you still are a thing.

The fossil evidence suggests humans have been around for 200 thousand years.
The universe is 13.8 billion years old.

I think its safe to assume no life ie observer existed 10 years after the universe came into being.

Did it exist without an observer ?

100 years +bb (plus Big Bang)

Observers no, reality yes.

1000 years +BB.....

10,000 years +BB

It is the height of human hubris to think it relies on an observer.
It doesnt
Long after our sun has gone nova, even as the universe goes cold during its eventual heat death
Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

Reality will be ticking along nicely without an observer.

You are confusing certain principles in quantum mechanics with the real world

Quantum Mechanics Requires an Observer Context Distinguishing between Reality and its Mental Representation

Just as many think schrodingers cat was a serious proposition. It wasnt it was designed to highlight just what ive stated

The Science:

A cat is sealed in a box with a vial of poison and a radioactive sample. If the sample decays at a time no one could ever predict, then the poison is released and the cat dies. They call this "quantum superposition" and it means is that, at any moment, it's decayed and not-decayed. Who the hell knows? That also means the cat is simultaneously licking his little butthole all cozy in a box and dead as a door nail. You'll know for sure when you look. Better put on that gas mask first.




The Problem:

The problem is that it's bullshit. Or rather, poisonous radioactive catshit. Schrodinger designed his nuclear-animal-cruelty Saw-prequel to be so obviously stupid that it would reveal the ridiculousness of applying quantum mechanics, meant for super-small-scale stuff, to larger objects. His original description of the thought experiment is dripping with sarcasm (and panicked cat urine), but people have been teaching it as the real thing for decades because it sounds so Inceptiony and scientarded that it must make sense.

What he said was


One can even set up quite ridiculous cases. A cat is penned up in a steel chamber, along with the following device (which must be secured against direct interference by the cat)...


It is typical of these cases that an indeterminacy originally restricted to the atomic domain becomes transformed into macroscopic indeterminacy, which can then be resolved by direct observation. That prevents us from so naively accepting as valid a "blurred model" for representing reality. In itself, it would not embody anything unclear or contradictory. There is a difference between a shaky or out-of-focus photograph and a snapshot of clouds and fog banks.


He was making the point that you cannot apply quantum mechanics to the actual universe.

The story continues, as Einstein later wrote to Schrödinger:

You are the only contemporary physicist, besides Laue, who sees that one cannot get around the assumption of reality, if only one is honest. Most of them simply do not see what sort of risky game they are playing with reality—reality as something independent of what is experimentally established. Their interpretation is, however, refuted most elegantly by your system of radioactive atom + amplifier + charge of gunpowder + cat in a box, in which the psi-function of the system contains both the cat alive and blown to bits. Nobody really doubts that the presence or absence of the cat is something independent of the act of observation.

Einstein thought Schrödinger refuted the notion that reality was "blurry" and depended on the observer. The universe has already worked out what happened before you looked (hence his famous quote, "God does not play dice.").


Reality does not need an observer, unless you want to measure it.

The collapse of superposition does not occur in observable physical reality, but in its mental representation. Some physical principles—such as superposition, infinity and nothingness before the Big Bang—are pure phenomena of mental representation
 
Last edited:

ChrisIB

Honorable
Well i dont have one
As you say it is a matter of belief but is there not an equal burden of proof required for your assertion we do not have a soul?
Being told we are just animated dust with delusions of grandeur begs some questions.

Say in the universe there is an evolutionary progression from material creatures to beings of pure energy, then to having that energy or 'soul' inhabit material shells. Is it not likely that that is the commonplace and we are just the garden variety final form?

Perhaps we are even the discarded shells of a race that designed us to be inhabited, or perhaps we were once inhabited but were faulty or superseded.
 

spacecase0

earth human
I don't think the observer that made this place is a human living here.
it would be more likely if it were not incarnating here as if the place is some sort of play ground like so many others do
I think that once the idea of this sort of physical reality was invented, that lots of observers started moving in.
and I don't think that the age of the earth is anywhere near as old as the idea of reality.
 

Black Angus

Honorable
As you say it is a matter of belief but is there not an equal burden of proof required for your assertion we do not have a soul?

No actually thats now how burden of proof works.
If it did then Thor creates thunder, you cant prove he doesnt so it must be true.
The flying spagetti monster is real, and created the universe, you cant prove that isnt true so it must be.

If the claim is one on nonexistance, you cant prove nonexistance. The onus is on the claimant claiming existance.

For example if i say to you teapots dont exist, there are no such things as teapots. You simply go into the kitchen and get one.

If i say there is no such thing as a device that cooks bacon and eggs all at once using the force from star wars as the energy source. You cant go into the kitchen and prove me wrong. But neither can you say that since i cant prove such a device doesnt exist, it must therefore exist, since i cant prove it doesnt.

Santa claus must be real, since you cant prove he isnt.
The tooth fairy must be real since no one can prove she isnt.

Thats just not how it works
 

SOUL-DRIFTER

Life Long Researcher
Well i dont have one.



I'm comfortable with oblivion, when this platform breaks down i will be gone.
Thats OK.

Trust me ive looked, but i cant find any mechanism for the soul, or its survival.
And no one else has satisfied the burden of proof for its existence either. Its a matter of faith.

No it is NOT a matter of faith. I have experienced a number of things that have proven it. Any paranormal or psychic experience is proof of a soul, and if one person has a soul we all do...all living things.

You may think you do not, but it matters not....you do have one.
 

Black Angus

Honorable
No it is NOT a matter of faith. I have experienced a number of things that have proven it. Any paranormal or psychic experience is proof of a soul, and if one person has a soul we all do...all living things.

You may think you do not, but it matters not....you do have one.

You may as well be insisting there is a pink unicorn in my garden that eats crayons and poops rainbows.

Ive seen no evidence this unicorn exists You can say I have experienced a number of things that have proven the pink unicorn is real. Buts thats not going to make it real.
 
Top