Socorro final determination?

Discussion in 'UFOs & Sightings' started by Creepy Green Light, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    I've stated this before somewhere else, but I wouldn't use government docs as the "end all" to verify whether something experimental landed in Socorro. This little anecdote doesn't relate to mysterious aircraft, but more in regards of record keeping....

    Back in 1993 when I was on a 6 month deployment to Puerto Rico - the base there had a bomb cart (with a certain serial number on it which I cant remember). Towards the end of deployment, my boss was bored and had some of us repaint it. After it was freshly painted we made up a stencil that said "EFK-069" which would be the new serial number for it (which was an inside joke & my boss was aware of it). So in the weeks to follow we would always joke that we are going to cause the biggest mystery when the gang (that is permanently attached to the Navy base in Puerto Rico) there that is in charge of all the bomb carts cannot find any records for cart EFK-069 (each card has an extensive record log which keeps track of when it was serviced, any repairs made, etc.). So if you strictly went by the books.....it would appear that cart EFK-069 mysteriously appeared on the base out of thin air - when meanwhile there was a juvenile, mundane explanation for its existence.

    Another time we had a bunch of CAD's (Cartridge Actuated Devices) that we used to explosively launch sonobuoys out of the plane. We kept them in storage magazines. One time during a CAD count, some indiviudals wrote words & symbols in Sharpie on the sides of a bunch of the CAD's to be funny. One day our boss saw it, got kinda pissed, wanted to know who did it, but then after that said if the Big Wig Boss comes around & sees that, we're all gonna be in big trouble. So on the next mission that was being flown out of Sicily (where we were at the time) someone brought the marked CAD's into the plane and told one of the crewman "Please do not land with these." - which meant leave them to rest on the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea. So they ended up getting dropped through the freefall chute in the plane and sank to the bottom of the sea. So that is another example where if you went strictly by the record books, it would show that a certain amount of CAD's mysteriously vanished with no record of anybody signing them out or using them. There one day - gone the next.

    Those are just two small examples I have (and I have others) - so God only knows what other weird things that have happened and/or screwups where something happened and was not logged correctly. I think of these things when I read about a certain case and the believers say things like "WRONG. THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A RECORD OF A REFUELING PLANE FLYING AROUND THAT NIGHT." etc. I say "wrong" back to them. To me, when I see dates & times don't add up (or don't show up at all) - it holds little weight because I saw how things can get fudged, faked or legitimately forgotton to log.
     
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  2. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    This made me laugh but I have to be careful here. I have a relative who has consistently proven himself to be of less than fabulous character and unclever, to say the least. Genuine lock-him-behind-a-barn-door stoooopid - and I have stories to back that up. Thing is, he found his calling and put in 20+ retiring from the AF having been a crew chief on a refueling tanker. This is not a reflection on his military service, which is why I am being careful. I can only assume others who were more capable closed ranks around him and made sure nobody got hurt, or maybe he really developed a highly unlikely set of skills. But before and since his service the man repeatedly demonstrates that he is dumber than a bag of hammers and time and time again has put his own ass in line ahead of everyone else's regardless of circumstances or cost to those around him. Stoooopid is worth mentioning again.

    So when I hear abut refueling tankers possible being mistaken for UFOs because they are doing something maybe they shouldn't be I can't help but think of that %$##@ing doorknob up there going 'oops'
     
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  3. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    That does not mean one should just disregard government docs because of these irregularities or mistakes as this happens anywhere with humans involved...

    ...
     
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  4. Rick Hunter

    Rick Hunter Noble

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    I work with state government documents and publications for a living. Most docs, at least where I am, have a specific retention period after which they are destroyed or discarded. Most government agencies don't do a good job of keeping disposal records, and others don't bother to discard things after the retention period expires. So, one set of documents might go clear back to the 1800's while another set dealing with nearly the same subject matter may only go back 5 years. Agency employees also often check out docs and pubs and then never return them. The human factor is always the weakest link.
     
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  5. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    100% agreed. All I am saying, is say for example someone is looking something up (via FOIA or whatever) and the information comes back as "No F-14's were flying out of Lakehurst NAS on July 2, 1990". I'd say they are probably correct. I just wouldn't be surprised if there was indeed F-14's flying that day based on my own 5 year U.S. Navy experience.
     
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  6. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    That's another common misnomer about the military I see all the time (and the police for that matter); "Since he's in the military - he saw EXACTLY what he describes. He CANNOT be mistaken and his happened EXACTLY when he said it happened." People don't realize that the military is like the civilian workforce in a lot of ways. You have the guy flying the Stealth Bomber, then you have the guy that fixes the electronics on it, the guy that loads the bombs on it, the guy that fuels it, the guy that repairs the engines on it, etc. etc. etc. all the way down to the guy that sweeps the floor in the hangar bay....down to the cook that makes the breakfast for the pilot, to the guy that ensures the aircrafts survival equipment is up to par (parachutes, life boats, etc.) and the list keeps going & going. Not to single out cooks in the Navy, but say if there was a recent sighting and it was a cook in the Navy who was in the E-5 paygrade who had been in the Navy 6 years.....the headlines might read something like "Petty Officer Second Class Sees Disc Shaped Object Near Rear Gate Of Base". Everyone will harp on the fact that he's an experienced sailor with 6 years in the Navy under his belt. But meanwhile if someone went the extra step to ask what their rate (same as an MOS in the Army, etc.) is in the Navy, he would say MS (Mess Specialist = cook). Now he very well may have seen a disc near the rear gate. But I think people have it in their heads that because he's in the service, that he must have special training, etc. or maybe has a highly technical job, etc. when meanwhile he's peeling potatoes at 2am.

    You have to take an ASVAB test before you get accepted in the service to see what type of jobs you qualified for. I knew I wanted to do something with flying. I just wasn't sure what. So the contract I signed was for a 5 year enlistment - and as long as I met all qualifications I would receive ONE OF THE FOLLOWING jobs (and there was a list of like 9 different jobs). I wanted to be an AW (antisubmarine warfare operator) but I didn't score high enough - but I did get one of the jobs they promised (AO - Aviation Ordnanceman).

    And just like the civilian world - you run into people in high positions where you think to yourself "Jesus Christ, this guy is a Chief? or This guy made it to Lieutenant Commander?? ....because in your mind you are thinking what a dip $hit he is.

    A guy that used to be in the Navy with me (he didn't fly, he was in charge of the planes emergency/survival equipment and my personal equipment like emergency radios, parachute, etc.) got out of the Navy, enlisted in the Army, signed up for the pipeline to where you become a Warrant Officer and then helicopter pilot. He's now retired from being a Blackhawk pilot and is now a civilian medivac pilot. But I asked him how he ended up leaving the Navy & joining the Army to become a pilot. This is what he told me....

    He said after I had gotten out of the Navy, he applied to U.S. Naval Aircrewman Candidate School (same place I went) so that he could be a crewman in the Navy. He got accepted, graduated and got sent to a helicopter squadron. He said that lots of the pilots weren't the sharpest crayons in the box. He said he would think to himself "This guy is a moron - if he can fly this thing then I can DEFINITELY fly this thing." So that's how & why he went from enlisted in the Navy to an officer in the Army. And I can say the same thing about certain pilots I used to fly with.

    So I'm not saying he was (because I definitely don't believe he was) - but what if Coyne was one of these not-so-sharp-crayons in the box? To us civilians the phrase "He's a helicopter pilot in the Army" makes us instantly think that the person is super sharp in every department & is the best & brightest - when that could absolutely be not true. I don't want to come off as saying half the pilots in the armed forces are idiots because I know that is not the case. But I also am not super impressed when I hear some of these pilot reports based on first hand experience and second hand (I believe what my friend has told me about the pilot situation in the Navy & Army).

    Sorry this was so long & drawn out :)
     
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  7. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    Just as an example, the "yellow shirts" in the Navy (whether on an aircraft carrier or on Naval Air Stations) are guys that have no rate (no job). It's usually because they didn't qualify for ANY job. They go into the fleet as "unrated"....and where do they send most of the unrated people? To the line.....that means the guys wearing the yellow shirts that direct & launch the planes. So in my personal experience - (not saying all, just my experience) these were some of the biggest - lets just say not so sharp individuals. When I was a kid, I thought this job must be hard to get and that there was some long, elaborate training you had to go through. When meanwhile it turns out it was the opposite. It was for the guy that didn't qualify for any other job in the Navy.

    yellow shirt.jpg yellow shirt 2.jpg
     
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  8. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i wouldn't call him that, just look in his roswell articles if you want a laugh
     
  9. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    well thats promising, it would be weird to find out that the white sands thing was a lie
     
  10. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i know wich case you are reffering to, but i think its too soon to just close it yet, lets wait a bit, maybe someone can find something
     
  11. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    Ok, lol.
     
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  12. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    Like I said, I knew White Sands was in NM. However, over the years all these news articles, reports, documentaries etc. made it seem like Socorro was only like 5 to 15 miles away from White Sands.
     
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  13. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    636
  14. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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  15. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    I had my marker on "flying saucer" for the last 35+ years until just recently.
     
  16. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    i have neither "flying saucer" neither solved, just unidentified
     
  17. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    Would you go so far as to rule out "flying saucer" but still unidentified?
     
  18. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    yes, unidentified is middle ground between unexplained and solved
     
  19. Creepy Green Light

    Creepy Green Light Don't mistake lack of talent for genius

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    No shit. I'm asking if you would rule out flying saucer - but still unidentified - as in; "I definitely don't think it was a flying saucer from another planet but rather a man made aircraft. Now which type of aircraft, I'm not sure."
     
  20. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    4,329
    still undecided in that part, there have been some UFO sightings quite similar to the one in the coyne case, bright white solid light beams are a common element
     

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