the 2020 election

Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by The shadow, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Yep. The Democrats have managed to line up behind a candidate who has an even smaller chance of beating Trump in the general election than Hillary Clinton did, because in addition to being the same kind of creepy sell-out corporatist shill that Hillary is, Biden's also clearly senile and his cognitive impairment is escalating quickly.

    So for all of you Trump supporters around here - time to crack open the champagne and spread that black caviar on some crackers, because this race is over: Trump will be a two-term president.

    And the reason this is happening is very simple: America is now a one-party political system - both parties are now The Corporate Party. And they would rather have another term of President Trump than allow any form of change to jeopardize the widespread system of corporate/elite kleptocracy that they've spent decades meticulously engineering in order to drain the money from the working class and absorb it into their plutocrat stock and real estate portfolios, to create the neofeudal Dark Age that they've always wanted, where they're on top, and the rest of us are gradually oppressed until we're all just powerless serfs groveling in mud our entire lives with no hope of happiness or upward mobility.

    R.I.P., America.
     
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  2. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I prefer this but don't care for nasty fish eggs. Not sure I'm breaking any out though.[​IMG]

    I will lay in a supply of beer and snacks for the first debate though, because we're definitely in for a season of entertainment. My ultraliberal aunt is beside herself - might have to get a wooden block to keep her from swallering' her tongue.
     
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  3. The shadow

    The shadow The shadow knows!

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    "I want to tell you, Gorsuch, I want to tell you, Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price"
    wow.. what the..
     
  4. The shadow

    The shadow The shadow knows!

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  5. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    The media are quick to jump on Trump if he says anything critical about judges. Let's see if the MSM gives Schumer the same treatment.
     
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  6. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    I hope the Dems put up a good show as it is very important for good governance to have a worthy opponent to duel with. I am hoping the same for here but can't see it on either side of the pond.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  7. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    I think Bernie could get in the ring and trade punches with Trump. Biden needs to be given his meds and wheeled into the Great Room for afternoon Reminisce.

    Watched DT's interview on Fox last night. I actually 'get' his 'stream on consciousness' talk sometimes. The thought is probably complete but his sentences are not. And when they are complete it's like having Granny at the dinner table - just like my Mom - a loose cannon on deck that just might blurt out anything and half the time it's exactly what we were thinking anyway but were too polite to voice.

    Even at that I just sat there blinking because he was just pushing around a lot of hot air saying not much. But he certainly hasn't cornered that market, they all do that.

    He needs to fire his stylist. He went on national TV last night with a big 'Something About Mary' spooge wad on the right side of his head.
     
  8. The shadow

    The shadow The shadow knows!

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  9. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    Donald Trump and the Republican party have one major advantage - unity.

    The Democrats are still running as two parties - Democratic Socialists, led by Bernie Sanders,
    and old fashioned Liberal Democrats now being led by Joe Biden.

    As I've said - If Biden and Sanders end up running together - They might win.

    They have until election day to unify the party with a new somewhat left wing center.

    - If not, Trump wins.
     
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  10. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    I had to read about the conscious stream as I'd never heard of it. Initially I was excited that Donald might be streaming a vibe on consciousness on youtube, it's why I enjoyed Christmas so much as a kid.

    But having sort of understood the literary sense and how a style of writing can make a reader understand the workings of a characters mind I can see how he is doing the same with himself and social media by saying what many are in fear of being judged upon.

    I saw that Brylcream wodge.
     
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  11. pigfarmer

    pigfarmer tall, thin, irritable

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    'stream of consciousness'might be too gracious but it sort of fits.

    And yes, he figured out how to communicate in a way others haven't. You might not like it, I laugh and cringe when I hear it, it has just as much total bullshit in it as any other politician, but it does seem to be effective.
     
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  12. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    He talks to his 'base' - The people who support him - And acts like those that don't are not worthy of
    anything but negative comments -And the facts? are only 'his facts'!

    In debates against Hilary in the 2016 election it is questionable who did better - I thought Trump did
    but I was then on his side.

    Now if Biden is even half as sharp as he was back then {remember he was in debates as the VP nominee while running with Obama}, he will come out ahead against Trump, Same might be said about Sanders, in any fair
    debate forum.

    See Trump always seems to be talking to a Rush Limbaugh conservative audience that sees Liberals
    as inherently inferior people.

    Sanders or Biden can make him {Trump} look very bad on the debate stage
     
  13. Sheltie

    Sheltie good to the last drop

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    Clinton and Biden both appeal to the party faithful. They play by the rules. No one is "stealing" the nomination from Sanders.
     
  14. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    This is the exact reaction I have to his effectiveness. I laugh all the time at him and I think he wants that. I see a big connection with the conscious stream as everyone knows what's coming, or at least how the character is thinking. Quite ingenious if intentional and I believe it to be so. Twitter made it possible for Trump and youtube for Farage.
     
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  15. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Don't be so sure.

    The party elites have all kinds of ways of biasing election results, and as best as I can tell, they've been using every one of them just as they did back in 2016. It's unthinkably naive to believe that the party elites wouldn't use every tool at their disposal to manipulate our elections - politics is about power, and once these Fers have it, they refuse to give any of it back to us, the people. So at this point the electorate has no detectable influence over US policy-making; only the elites influence policy-making in America now, as empirically proven by this 2014 Princeton study. In other words, it's now an indisputable scientific fact that America is an oligarchy, and not the representational republic that the Founding Fathers had intended.

    And it's a widely known fact that the United States consistently has the lowest election integrity rating in the Western world - we place a distant 57th in the world for election integrity. A comprehensive list of the ways that the elites/plutocrats manipulate our political system would require hundreds of pages of writing, but here are just a few ways that our election system is fubared:

    - Voting is done on Tuesdays, when most working people are actually working. This biases the voting toward the wealthy class and retired people.

    - Nearly all of the media coverage in our country is provided by 5 corporations, and all of them favor the corporate elite class, which also comprises the vast bulk of the political donor class. None of these corporations serve to inform us on political subjects, but rather to control the public through narratives that are written by the elites to serve their own ends. If you read any of the DNC or Podesta email leaks published by WikiLeaks in 2016, then you know this to be a fact: the party elites plant stories in the corporate news media in order to control perception, and therefore, voting.

    - Once again we're seeing substantial disparities between the reported voting results, and the exit polling results, strongly suggesting that the numbers are being skewed. The percentages are so large that the disparities that we're seeing now - and which we saw in 2016 also - would trigger a legally mandated investigation if they occurred in an election among our closest geopolitical allies (who use hand-counted paper ballots, instead of electronic voting systems that can be hacked by an eleven-year-old child in ten minutes).

    - Many states have been closing voting locations in poor neighborhoods, causing waiting times of many hours for voters in those areas.

    - Illegally purged voter rolls, like the >117,000 voters purged from the Brooklyn (Bernie's home district) voter rolls in 2016.

    - Just as the US Intelligence Community conspired with the elites to create the fake RussiaGate hoax to undermine Trump, they're using the same fake narrative to subvert the Sanders campaign - and millions of American voters are dumb/naive enough to fall for it.

    - Superdelegates.

    - Money - the Citizen's United and McCutcheon v. FEC rulings by the Supreme Court threw open the floodgates to political corruption in US elections, allowing the elites to pour unlimited funds into SuperPACs that shape the map of electoral outcomes by funding everything from TV ads to opposition research and smear campaigns.

    - Influencing political campaigns. For example, all of the "establishment Democrats" dropped out of the primary race and endorsed Biden, just in time for Super Tuesday. So the gullible "centrist" neoliberals all flocked to one candidate - Biden. But Elizabeth Warren stayed in just long enough to split the left-wing vote with Bernie: to be a spoiler.

    - Voter suppression laws.

    I could go on and on with this, but it's too depressing to think about any more. And the most depressing part is that most Americans are completely oblivious to all of this BS going on behind the scenes, because the corporate news media almost always refuses to report on the corruption of our country by the corporate billionaires, and our own intelligence community - Tulsi Gabbard has been the only candidate with the courage to even talk about that.
     
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  16. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    Yes, it may be true - And of course that is what 'THEY' want everyone to believe - Why vote when it is all
    rigged anyway? - Make the 'opposition to the agenda' give-up or accept Trump's 'fake news' scenario.

    Of course if you want to play the conspiracy game it becomes more fascinating all the time.

    Does any adult with a brain really believe that Bernie Sanders can turn the United States into
    a Socialist country? - Won't happen - Americans, even many of the most liberal left wingers, will still
    not vote sufficiently to convert the United States to Socialism - Socialism doesn't sell.

    We are a profit driven country .

    And think about Michael Bloomberg, the Republican mayor of NYC running for President as a Democrat!
    -- And now that that scam has failed he's trying to buy Joe Biden.

    Sanders, give him credit, won't sell out - But he lives in a dream World and will not compromise with
    reality - The Democratic establishment knows he won't beat Trump - So they want Biden - Can you blame
    them?

    The winning ticket for the Democrats is Biden-Sanders; that assumes Bernie is willing to accept being the
    Vice President - which he probably will not.
     
  17. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Unless somebody can show me where any of that is not true, then we'll have to proceed on the basis that it is true.

    My point isn't to suggest that it's inherently hopeless; my point is that the system is so skewed against the working class and our interests that it will take a surge in order to overcome the hurdles before us, if we're ever going to have any hope of restoring our government to a representational republic. In my view this urgent crisis transcends party lines because it's a grave problem for Americans of all political persuasions.

    Biden couldn't beat a ham sandwich in a general election. He's suffering from dementia, and he has more skeletons in his closet than a haunted house. No VP pick could change the metrics enough to beat Trump, imo.

    Bernie on the other hand would crush Trump in a general election, which is why the Democratic Party is working so hard against him. Both the Democrats and the Republicans represent the exact same donor class, so both parties are more concerned with defeating the interests of the labor class than they are with defeating each other.

    Here’s the averaged general election match-up polling results from 2016 – Bernie quickly rose to double-digit leads over Trump and maintained them while Clinton clung to a low single-digit lead throughout the year:

    Trump vs. Sanders 2016.jpg

    The corporate news media has warped this debate about Sanders beyond recognition. Bernie’s central platform policy is universal healthcare – a policy which all of our nation’s closest allies have had for a long time. None of them have ever considered going backwards to the shitty “private health insurance” model that we’re dealing with, which costs about twice as much and doesn’t provide better outcomes for those who can actually afford it (and in America, 44 million people have no health insurance and another 38 million people are underinsured, primarily because the cost is so high).

    Otherwise, Bernie isn’t suggesting “Socialism” (gasp!) – he’s advocating for the Nordic model, which is really just “responsibly managed capitalism":

    "The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionized and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3] The Nordic model began to gain attention after World War II.[4][5]

    The three Scandinavian countries are, nominally, monarchies, while Finland and Iceland have been republics since the 20th century. Currently, the Nordic countries are described as being highly democratic and all have a unicameral form of governance and use proportional representation in their electoral systems. Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries,[6] they all have some common traits. These include support for a universalist welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labour and employers negotiate wages and labour market policy mediated by the government;[7] and a commitment to private ownership (with some caveats) within a mixed economy.[8]

    As of 2018, all of the Nordic countries rank highly on the inequality-adjusted HDI and the Global Peace Index. In 2019, all five of the Nordic countries ranked in the top 10 on the World Happiness Report.[9]”
    Nordic model - Wikipedia
     
  18. AlienView

    AlienView Honorable

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    "Otherwise, Bernie isn’t suggesting “Socialism” (gasp!) "

    Unfortunately the media has quoted him often saying he was in fact a 'Socialist'
    - Trump of course always the opportunist has recently said he is a Communist
    - Fits Trumps narrative of saving America from the left.

    From personal experience I agree with your assessment of the for profit Health Care private insurance industry
    - Totally profit driven regardless of consequences.

    It's a multi billion, or is it trillion, dollar industry - Driven by power hungry psychopaths who really like
    Donald Trump - They will not go away and they will probably do anything necessary to stop Bernie.

    Obamacare, which at least tried to compromise with the private healthcare industry, was and still is
    resisted by the entire Republican party - The party that represents big business and big money
    - and follows a 'let the people be damned' philosophy.

    It almost 'seems like' this movement within the Democratic party to going further and further left,
    in fact so far left so as to alienate all those in the middle, is being manipulated by the very Republicans
    they are trying to beat.

    Michael Bloomberg, the so called born again Democrat, is a prime example - His philosophy if you can't
    beat them, buy them. The fact that he got as far as he did shows that in spite of his no popularity with
    Democratic voters - the candidates were willing to, or could not stop the infiltration
    = Another words the Democratic Party is already quite compromised and Bernie Sanders, by himself and even
    with his sizable group of followers will not upset the status quo.

    So even 'if' he could win the Presidency - The bought and paid for 'establishment' will resist all his
    left wing policies - As the Republican Party did with Obama; Mitch McConnell actually saying he would
    resist Obama on general principle on almost everything when he was President.
    "“If I’m still the majority leader in the Senate think of me as the Grim Reaper. None of that stuff is going to pass,” McConnell said while speaking to community leaders in Owensboro, Ky." {Talking recently about
    the Democrats winning the Presidency in the coming election}

    You can talk all you want about the ideals of the Nordic model and/or Bernie Sanders
    - but we have "The best politicians money can buy'

    So what are the actual chances that a politician money can't buy, such as Bernie Sanders,
    will actually win the Presidency???
     
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  19. Thomas R. Morrison

    Thomas R. Morrison Administrator

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    Bernie calls himself a "democratic socialist" (which is different than a pure "socialist"), and always explains by citing the Nordic countries which employ a form of hybrid republic/capitalist/socialist system where they have the same socialist entities like fire departments and police forces, but also universal healthcare and higher education. But the corporate news media always completely ignores this explanation and pretends that Bernie wants to somehow transform the country into some entirely different form of government, which just isn't true - he just wants to tweak the existing system by making the system represent the people again (as it was intended to do from the beginning) and he wants everyone to have healthcare and public higher education.

    And these are centrist policies all around the globe. Only in America are universal healthcare and free university for students considered to be left-wing policies.

    Yep. Actually both parties are beholden to the psychopaths running the US health insurance industry...and every other major corporation rapaciously exploiting our economy and our people, because the plutocrats have bought nearly all of our politicians via "donations" (i.e., bribes).

    Well, in truth Obamacare is basically just a federal version of the Heritage Foundation's (Republican) healthcare plan that Mitt Romney implemented previously in his state. The healthcare companies actually make more money this way because the insurer's base of subscribers is much larger. So it's kinda hilarious to see the Republicans acting like they hate it - it was their idea, and, their political donors (i.e., owners) love it.

    That's an illusion - both parties have been gradually shifting to the right for decades, so now the Democrats are running on Reagan-era Republican policies, and the Republicans have been pushed even further right via the Tea Party and forces like the Koch brothers. So today even sensible middling policies like Medicare-for-All and a publicly accessible college education, seem to be "far left" to most Americans. But anywhere else in the Western world these things are centrist, which illustrates my point - it's America that has drifted to the far right, which is exactly where the corporate profiteers running our government want us to be. America is a right-wing corporate oligarchy.

    The Democratic leadership is actually arguing for the status quo - changelessness - because the political donor class has us right where they want us. If you actually listen to what the mainstream Democrats are saying, that's it. They offer vapid platitudes, and no policy changes.

    Yeah, Bloomberg is another good example that illustrates the fact that the Democratic Party has drifted so far to the right that even a creepy right-wing dictator like Bloomberg feels perfectly at home there - and they eagerly welcomed him in because they only care about money.

    The populist uprising is in process, but it's not large enough to effect any kind of changes yet. Eventually enough people will realize that they're the frog in the boiling water, and then things will get interesting. But that still seems to be many years away, because the old generation can't understand that the corporate news media is lying to them. In 10-20 years they'll be dead, and a more politically aware generation will be swinging elections. But who knows - maybe once we're old and feeble too, the corporate media brainwashing system will work on us too.

    The interesting part of this is seeing that it's the Democrats who are the firewall against globally centrist politicians, and policies like universal healthcare and higher education. The Democrats won't let somebody like Bernie Sanders or Tulsi Gabbard win their nomination. In fact they fight much much harder against smart, compassionate populist candidates in their own party, than they ever fight against the Republicans. That's really why we're all so screwed; the Democrats are a much more dangerous and toxic adversary to the people because they talk like they care about people, but it's all lies - they're wolves in sheep's clothing...and of course that's always more dangerous than a wolf.

    But if Bernie could actually run in the general election (which the Democrats have now made impossible), he would crush Trump; the numbers have always shown that. So the Democrats would rather lose to a Republican than win with an actual progressive like Bernie Sanders - they prove it with every election.
     
  20. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    The biggest campaign topic could easily become this coronavirus epidemic as the year progresses and as the virus rampages through the country...

    ...
     
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