The Divided State of Europe

Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by nivek, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    194
    I have always felt that Britain should leave the European Union.
     
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  2. Captain Tinkle

    Captain Tinkle Honorable

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    180
    The reasons I keep seeing are:

    60 million approx did not vote for Brexit (people who couldn't be bothered to vote either way).
    Not what we voted for.
    Leave campaigned lied.
    The people who voted to leave are now dead.
    Young people who were not old enough at the time, are now old enough to vote therefore another vote should be held.

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    There is a petition at the moment going for Brexit to be cancelled. Approx 4 million votes at time of writing. Not surprising most of these signatures are from populated areas like London, Cambridge etc... Left leaning areas full of students and upper class individuals who have nothing better to do.

    Quite honestly I would have deployed the water cannon. :biggrinn8:
     
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  3. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    13,322
    Yeah that would have been nice to see lol...

    Those people should have been protesting all the stabbings in London and the total ineffectiveness of that pathetic Mayor...

    ...
     
  4. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    13,322
    Britain should have never joined the EU, in my opinion...

    ...
     
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  5. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    194
    That goes without saying. A lot of people in this country complain about our Common Market entry in 1973 under the government of Ted Heath. Heath retroactively sought permission from the electorate for this action by holding a referendum on the matter in 1975, in which the British public voted overwhelmingly (well, two-thirds of a two-thirds turnout) to assent to the decision.

    This was the very first nation-wide referendum in British history, and one of only three we have ever had (the other two taking place in 2011 and 2016). The 'yes' vote (to stay in) campaign actually outspent the 'no' vote campaign by a factor of nearly ten-to-one at that time. No one complained then about a measly eight percent alleged overspend, as they have been doing about the official leave campaign in the last referendum, even when the last one was rigged by the government in such a way that public funds were used to effectively double the official remain campaign's allowed spending limit.

    However, I can take that outcome or leave it. The decision I cannot abide was the one undertaken by the Major government to sign the Treaty of Maastricht, which transformed the EEC into what is now the EU. Britain could have stayed out of this arrangement, and remained in the EFTA group of countries, alongside Norway, Iceland, Lichtenstein and Switzerland. We would likely have done very much better in the interim had we done so.

    And now we are where we are. Extricating ourselves is not going to be something so simple as many Brexiteers naively imagine it is going to be. The outcome of recent events I would have most favoured is if Britain had left the EU, but attempted to remain in the EEA (Single Market) and also sought to rejoin EFTA. This is the so-called Norway option.

    Things may well have been better had we not joined any of these organizations, and in an ideal world it may well be better that we were not members of any of them. But as the Irishman tells the lost traveller in the old joke, if I was going there, I wouldn't start from here. As it was, there was a massive campaign of misinformation about the Norway option in both the remain and leave campaigns, who because of the interests of their backers, and in some cases because of sheer stupidity and ignorance, did not want the country to be well-informed about it.

    Given the outcome of the referendum, this option makes sense all the more. Leave voters need to recognize that they won only a very narrow victory, and not a landslide. The Norway option, as well as being in the national interest, offered the best compromise between the views of remain and leave voters.
     
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  6. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Thanks, I did not completely understand the "Norway option", makes sense and if anything that would for the most part satisfy all parties concerned...

    ...
     
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  7. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    597
    Believe it or not the stabbings have a point system of 30 for a chest stab and 50 for the head and a measly 20 for a gut shot.
     
  8. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    1,515
    What does that mean? Does it pertain to the amount of police resources allocated?
     
  9. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    597
    No, it's a system put in place by rival gangs. A way of determining a lead.

    No way I hear you say...........WAY.
     
  10. pepe

    pepe Noble

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    597
     
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  11. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    176
    The much debated and criticized copyright act just got passed in the EU, despite massive protests on it.

    This has just further confirmed what i fear the most, the politicians and representitives dont listen to the people anymore, when theres lobbyist money flying around.
     
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  12. Spaceman spiff

    Spaceman spiff Honorable

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    176
    The thing is the harder they tighten their grip, the more people will slip through their fingers to the opposite strand.

    This thing has again opened the eyes of more people...

    I dont know how much this will affect the internet on EU side. Worst option, copyright nazis will strike all around and many sites, including giants like youtube and google will have to put restrictions on EU users what they can and cant view or put up. In other words geo blocking and censorship. But if it goes to that it will be chaos.

    My guess, VPN use will skyrocket. I also expect more protests, should it change that drastically, people will not swallow it. Maybe we need to send the EU the message the hard way. Theyve perhaps opened Pandoras box.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
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  13. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Looks like the EU is trying to control every aspect of life, even driving:

    No more speeding! All new cars will be fitted with mandatory speed limiters from 2022 under shock EU rules

    All new cars will be fitted with speed limiters from 2022 under tough EU safety rules.

    The Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA) black boxes will use GPS to work out what the speed limit is and will then ensure the car doesn't break it.

    New models will need to have an ISA fitted as standard within three years after the European Commission approved the legislation.

    This will include cars in Britain even if Brexit happens because the UK’s Vehicle Certification Agency said it will still mirror the EU rules.

    [​IMG]
    +9

    [​IMG]

    The Intelligent Speed Assistance technology is variable, so it can respond to changing zones and restrict the vehicle's top speed accordingly


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  14. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    13,322
    This is getting nuts, Commons needs to agree and get out of the EU, the people voted for Brexit, now do it...

    92233842.jpg
     
  15. wwkirk

    wwkirk Celestial

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    1,515
    A prime example of a Nanny State (or Nanny Mega-state).
     
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  16. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    194
    I don't understand the idiots in parliament who think that May's agreement gives unfavourable terms to Britain and therefore won't vote for it but who instead propose a permanent customs union with the EU.
     
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  17. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Protests at MPs' Brexit betrayal go into the night as May hints she WILL put her deal to 'run-off' vote against rebels' soft Brexit next week, but if she loses the UK could face third election in four years

    [​IMG]

    Minutes after her deal was rejected, the Prime Minister (top right) signalled a national poll could now be on its way. 'I fear we are reaching the limits of this process in this House,' Theresa May told MPs. Downing Street refused three times to deny the Prime Minister was now considering going to the polls.

    On Monday Rebel MPs will hold a second round of indicative votes on alternatives to her deal, such as staying in the customs union or holding a second referendum. Following the Prime Minister's defeat in the Commons yesterday, pro-Brexit demonstrators held rallies across London, clashing with police officers in Parliament Square (pictured main) as the Brexit crisis continues. Demonstrators were also pictured burning the European Union flag (bottom left). Pictured: bottom right, how the PM's deal died again. Top left: Protestors clash with officers last night.

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  18. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    13,322
    So a muslim migrant gets stabbed and a massive police search ensues but weeks of British citizens getting stabbed got little activity from police...

    Pictured: Aspiring music producer, 24, who was stabbed to death 'for his £60,000 watch' by pair of knifemen who fled into nearby London mosque sparking huge police search

    [​IMG]

    Zahir Visiter (pictured top), 24, was stabbed near his home on Thursday evening shortly after waving off his parents and two younger brothers as they left for the airport for a holiday. His attackers ran half a mile to the Central London Mosque (bottom) in Regent's Park, where they calmly switched clothes and mingled with worshippers before fleeing.

    A friend said Mr Visiter, an aspiring music producer, had been wearing an expensive watch which had been hanging from his wrist after the attack, as if someone had tried to prise it free. Pictured: Armed police sealed off the mosque after the attack at around 6.15pm and could be seen searching the surrounding area for the killers (inset).


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  19. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    194
    There are a couple of problems with this graphic. For one, it presupposes that a second referendum would give a result for the softest possible Brexit, the same as for revoking the Article 50 notification (not revoking Article 50, which many people stupidly say when they in fact mean this, including the people who put together this chart), which the people creating this have no way of knowing. Further, it says that the Norway Option is a 'softer' Brexit than forming a customs union. It is not clear entirely what 'softer' means, but if they mean that the customs union will impose fewer restrictions on Britian, then they are dead wrong.

    A lot of people talking about the Norway Option in the media seem to think that a customs union would be part of it. This was part of Theresa May's rationale for dismissing the Norway Option at her Lancaster House speech two years ago. She said that it would not be pursued by the government because it would mean Britain remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (not correct, because the highest court in EFTA is the EFTA Court, not the ECJ; also, continued ECJ jurisdiction over the UK in many cases is something conceded by May at negotiations with the EU) and remaining in a customs union with the EU.

    In fact, there are only a few minor non-EU statelets within the European Union Customs Union, like Monaco and the Channel Islands, and the EU has bilateral customs unions with only three other states: Turkey, San Marino and Andorra, only one of which is an actual, proper country. The EFTA states are not members of the EU Customs Union, nor of any bilateral customs unions with the EU. It is not possible that Britain could gain entry into EFTA if it formed a customs union with the EU.

    Therefore, the customs union option enmeshes us further into the EU machine than Norway, giving them a greater control over us, and is by that measure 'softer' than Norway, which is probably what the creators of the graphic mean, but are too ignorant to realize is false.

    Furthermore, in terms of the delay caused to Brexit, I am afraid Norway, although the best of the options available, is no quick fix. Richard North, whom I consider the best authority on the Norway Option among its proponents, believed that it would have taken at least the full two year negotiating period allowed under the Article 50 negotiating period, perhaps even longer.

    What the government needed to have done was intend to take the Norway Option from the start, have got preparations underway before invoking Article 50, and appealed for an extension to the negotiating period as soon as it commenced. Britain would also have had to make use of the transition period for further negotiation. It would have required several bilateral agreements being negotiated to make it work. So, unfortunately, unless the whole process is started from the beginning, which is unlikely, the ship for the taking the Norway Option before we leave the EU has already sailed.

    This is all thanks to the leading Brexiteers, who have all the maturity of particularly stupid, petulant little children, and who threw their toys out of their prams at the suggestion of any hold up to the process, or of any reality creeping into their fantasies about a free-trading, 'global' Britain, even though most of them had only been invested in the cause of leaving the EU for a very short amount of time. The only glimmer of hope is to take May's shoddy deal, and hope to be able to negotiate EFTA membership afterwards.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
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  20. pepe

    pepe Noble

    Messages:
    597
    No deal is better than a bad deal.

    When did this have a change of meaning for the lady who advocated it as it is only us, the ill informed public who have been told we didn't know what leave meant. She knows what it meant then and means now.

    So I for one could never back any treaty written by the EU and backed by May and hope we crash out and show the world it is the MEP'S who have made this as tough as possible for the UK. I understand why leave politicians are turning. Because there is shit all left on the table apart from a long extension and further twisting of our democratic vote.
     
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