The Divided State of Europe

Discussion in 'Present & Current Events' started by nivek, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    Looks like we are going to be left with an insulting binary confirmatory people's vote, also know as a referendum.

    Option one : Remain

    Option two : May/Corbin's treaty.

    It's an utter stitch up and I now will be joining any unrest in the area so I can vent my spleen. Any fondness for dear old May I held has now turned into hatred.

    This was the plan three years ago, to twist and turn and cause intentional confusion and fear to the point where the only options left are remaining tied in.

    This is a stealth dictatorship with tea and biscuits.
     
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  2. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    I will be spoiling my paper by writing no deal across it.

    Please follow my lead and don't abstain.
     
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  3. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    Listening to a phone in radio station hosted by a muslim chap who was discussing the reasons why Islam is viewed as it is and a sharia practicer came on and spoke of how stoning and chopping where ok in the western world. The presenter accused him of being the problem and the stoner claimed the host was the problem for selling out to western values and there it was, the real problem.

    Oil and water.
     
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  4. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    Never attribute to malice what can be equally explained by stupidity. I think May wanted to negotiate as good an exit as possible, she and her government were just not up to the task. The not being up to the task is true of the whole of Parliament.

    There are those in Parliament who thought that May's deal is disadvantageous to Britain, and so have voted against it, but who have voted in favour of a customs union with the EU, which is even more disadvantageous than May's deal. Why do they do this? The likely reason is that they believe they are voting for customs cooperation and do not understand the difference.
     
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  5. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    I also believe she would have liked a good deal as any would but it was never going to happen for reasons of setting an example to those next in line.

    She should have gone way back and is serving the sole purpose of taking no deal off the table and down with her after the event. The big misconception is with the public, no deal doesn't mean no deal, there is always a deal and we would have been in a more advantageous position to negotiate when on the outside.

    I uphold my hatred for the disingenuous lady as she is not going to let us leave the way many want which is no deal, there is a massive want for this in the people regardless of the short term fears.

    I also have distain for acting as if we are in war time and coming together to resolve an issue which should have have been and gone.

    I will never see it any different as I do, the union have written this deal and have it bound in leather, not us. We are begging for more time like Oliver asking for more food, it will be kicked into the long grass until a new referendum with no deal not being an option. An option that has huge backing by the people that must not feature.

    And it won't.
     
  6. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    17,474
    They are both the problem, the stoner and the chap, because Islam is the problem...

    ...
     
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  7. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    I think most in Parliament do not understand at all what they vote for and the implications of their fragmented votes, May is a train wreck and Corbyn's interests are not British interests, Corbyn is another Merkel in my opinion...

    ...
     
  8. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    Migrants are fighting their way into Europe, wouldn't this be called an invasion a few decades ago?...

    Migrants pelt Greek police with rocks who fire tear gas back in third straight day of clashes over as they try to make their way into northern Europe

    Hundreds of protesting migrants clashed with police for a third straight day in northern Greece on Saturday, with migrants throwing rocks at officers who responded with tear gas and stun grenades.

    Authorities say the demonstrations outside a migrant camp in Diavata have been triggered by false reports on social media that restrictions on travel to northern Europe had been lifted.

    Several migrants, including children, fainted amid the clouds of tear gas Saturday. The protesters have lit fires to make the air more bearable, but blazes have also erupted from exploding stun grenades. In Athens, migrants left a main railway station after blocking trains on Friday and services resumed Saturday.

    [​IMG]

    Hundreds of protesting migrants clashed with police for a third straight day in northern Greece on Saturday, which were triggered by false reports of open borders in northern Europe

    [​IMG]

    The skimishes began at a migrant camp in Diavata after migrants threw rocks at officers who then responded by volleying back tear gas and stun grenades

    [​IMG]

    A post in Arabic had been circulating on social media falsely claiming that the Greek government were going to open the border to North Macedonia

    Greek officials say the migrants have been mobilized by false reports originating on social media that the road to central Europe, tightly sealed to migrants for three years, is open again, and that buses chartered by non-governmental organizations are waiting on the other side of the border with North Macedonia, about 60 kilometers (40 miles) to the north of Diavata.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. nivek

    nivek As Above So Below

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    17,474
    How a No Deal Brexit COULD happen this week: Wednesday's summit is set to delay leaving the EU by a YEAR - or the UK could crash out on FRIDAY if hardliner Macron makes good on threats

    Britain faces the theoretical prospect of a No Deal Brexit on Friday - but few in Westminster believe it will be allowed to happen. Despite the stalling of cross party talks with Labour, Theresa May appears set on a new delay to Brexit. She will meet EU leaders in Brussels on Wednesday to formalise her request for a second extension to Article 50. Britain wants to delay until June 30. But the Prime Minister knows she will have to take what she is given as she will be kicked out of the summit while the 27 leaders agree a way forward.

    A six-hour debate at the last summit produced a much shorter two week delay - but this time most expect the EU to kick Brexit a year or more down the road.

    French President Emmanuel Macron has threatened to veto any extension to end the stalemate. This is by far the most likely route to a No Deal Brexit this week. Mrs May will have to agree a delay on the night whatever the political ramifications at home - certain to be explosive on the Brexiteer wing of her party. MPs will have to rubber stamp a change in the Brexit date but it emerged two weeks ago they have no actual power to stop the PM agreeing a change in Brussels.

    Before the summit convenes, Labour and Tory politicians are expected to resume talks to see if a consensus on the final EU-UK trade deal can be struck. Few in Westminster expect a significant breakthrough without a dramatic climbdown from the Prime Minister on her red lines.

    MPs are also likely to debate and vote at least one tomorrow. Rebels who forced through legislation to force the Government to seek a delay are likely to get their law finalised tonight, meaning Mrs May will have to hold a debate on delay tomorrow. And the PM had signalled she would call indicative votes on Brexit alternatives before the summit if talks with Jeremy Corbyn failed - but there is currently little sign of this being scheduled.


    upload_2019-4-8_11-30-48.jpeg
     
  10. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    351
    I am puzzled as to how this Theresa May-Labour alliance can secure a 'soft' Brexit. At the moment, the reporting is that this is focused on agreeing a customs union. Ironically, this was one of the 'red lines' by which Theresa May ruled out EFTA membership for Britain at her Lancaster House speech in early 2017, despite the fact that a customs union is not a part of joining EFTA, and would likely prevent entry into the organization, and in doing so caused all this pain and misery of securing only a hopeless, politically-unacceptable deal.

    The talking heads are saying that this latest proposal would provide Britain with 'frictionless trade' with the EU. However, a customs union--by a simple definition, a common external tariff--does not provide the 'frictionless trade' we currently enjoy with the EU, that comes from being part of the Single Market. It is clear that those in the highest positions of government and Her Majesty's opposition are still confusing a customs union with the Single Market, so close to a potential no deal exit by default. Does the country have any time left for them to grasp even the fundamentals of the issue?
     
  11. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    351
    It seems that Chairman May has got an extension to the date on which Britain leaves the EU. However, all does not seem well. I do not see how a deal is ever going to be agreed before the end of June. The EU has made it clear time and again that the only way for Britain to leave the EU with a deal is by ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement already negotiated, and voted down in parliament multiple times. The Prime Minister and the opposition are leading themselves up the blind alley of the customs union, which is only a displacement activity. The choices remain, as ever, the deal, no deal, or no Brexit, but the infantile incompetents we have for parliamentarians will not go for any of these.

    If come June, we have still not agreed a way out, as now seems likely, and May resigns, then I fear the implosion of the British political system. There is no competent successor to May, waiting to rescue the country from crisis when she goes, there are only the MPs of the Conservative and Labour parties. The eventual outcome of all of this is likely a British Trump who will run roughshod over this country and leave it unrecognizable.
     
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  12. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    1,006
    I would go as far to say that what I have seen over the last three years ( especially during the eleventh hour), is about as unrecognisable as can be. We need a Trump like figure and I more than welcome it.

    Ukip, ERG and the Brexit party will be the same soon and from there I hope we will see our leader emerge. Never has it been more likely in our lifetime. They will have my vote.

    Come on Macron give it the old De gaulle veto and then we can all thank crunchy it's Friday.

    Second referendum pinged on the radar by May as she confirms it is not her wish in the next sentence.

    Insidious.
     
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  13. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    1,006
    Perspective.

    Tonight 27 people are deciding Britain's future behind closed doors and not one is a Brit.
     
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  14. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    It could be better described as giving Britain more leeway in deciding its own future. They would only be deciding by forcing the matter by granting no more extensions, which is not likely what they are going to do. It is (regrettably) down to Parliament to decide Britain's future.

    I don't much care for the EU, and want Britain to be rid of it, but this 'us vs them' nonsense is not helpful. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to our relations with Europe. It is British politicians who signed us up to the EU, and who kept us in it for more than forty years (including its predecessor organizations) and it is British politicians who have failed us in being able to leave it sensibly.
     
  15. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    1,006
    It is what it is, a situation the nation is in shock over. The perspective I exampled is a place I never thought I would see. Helpful or not I don't worry about. The EU have made this negotiation as difficult as possible, the example was set by how Cameron was dealt with.

    Of course a long extension will result and from the long grass a confirmatory people's vote will arrive.

    She looks happiest when in Brussels, just like what is expected when among your superiors and positively grave when home.

    Very telling.
     
  16. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    351
    What you mean is that the EU has competently looked after its own interests, in contrast to the shoddy and embarrassing performances of our own politicians.

    Maybe, or maybe not. The result could still be a no deal exit, but be careful what you wish for.

    May needs to put on a diplomatic facade. You don't go and ask for favours from someone with a face like thunder.
     
  17. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    1,006
    No, I mean that the European Union has made this as difficult as possible as we knew they would. It is in their interest to do so. As predicted she once again did not get what she asked for, a short extension where she could apply more leverage for not actually leaving.

    Humbling.

    I don't have to be careful as what I wish for as my wish will go down with the Mayflower. Your remark is that of Guy Marie Louise Verhofstadt, both threatening and unfounded.

    Very distasteful.

    Poker face would have served us better.
     
  18. AD1184

    AD1184 Honorable

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    351
    So you think they did her wrong by giving her more than she asked for? The EU have not prevented us from leaving, they have just stopped us from leaving by default. Until October, anyway. For many in this country, that will seem something of a reprieve. You did not get what you wanted, so boohoo.

    Do not be under any illusions: an exit without a deal will have severe economic repercussions for this country. It will not be the fairy tale dreamt of by the ERG, but an unmitigated disaster. There is no reason to think either that No Deal is now off the table. It seems as likely as ever.

    Given that I have no power to influence any outcome, and also that my statement is founded on the state of what trading relations and international agreements actually exist, it is neither threatening nor unfounded. It is simply pointing out that few in this country, be they leaver or remoaner, will be celebrating for very long if you get your longed-for no deal exit.
     
  19. pepe

    pepe Celestial

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    1,006
    You forget.

    I remind you on the Sunday straight after the referendun the chancellor of the exchequer stated " we are leaving the single market, we are leaving the customs union and that was everybody's understanding, to end free movement and to trade with the rest of the world.

    You have been brainwashed by the aftermath.
     
  20. pepe

    pepe Celestial

    Messages:
    1,006
    You forget.

    I remind you on the Sunday straight after the referendun the chancellor of the exchequer stated " we are leaving the single market, we are leaving the customs union and that was everybody's understanding, to end free movement and to trade with the rest of the world.

    Independence.

    Now we have been betrayed by MPs and the will of the house will over ride the above mentioned. This betrayal could only have been avoided by actually leaving and then negotiating.

    May saving us from the abyss, as she is being credited for is a shining example of project's fears success which has brainwashed a nation into believing we will crumble as a nation.

    These people who claim of a disaster where the same as those who claimed a huge crash after the referendum, never happened and they too are of the same ilk of those who claimed that not taking the euro would also throw us into an abyss.

    Don't believe the hype.
     

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